tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post9004837279692133354..comments2024-03-29T03:51:13.883-05:00Comments on Althouse: Health care summit update: Boehner & Cantor respond to Obama and Gibbs to Boehner & Cantor.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89669239318250452002010-02-10T03:19:02.434-06:002010-02-10T03:19:02.434-06:00NEWS FLASH: The Republicans lost the election. Tha...<i>NEWS FLASH: The Republicans lost the election. That means their policies are not implemented.<br /><br />The voters spoke, they got the boot, but the Republicans refuse to respect the will of the voters.</i><br /><br />Absolutely. And, in accord with this result, the Democrats devised a legislative strategy that depended on the availability of 60 Democratic votes in the Senate, and did not depend on any Republican votes. Hence there was no need to get entangled in horse-trading with Republicans, either philosophically or on a more basic level. <br /><br />First, they were unable to execute this strategy -- hence all the feints and rumors that some moderate Republicans were going to jump on board Obamacare any day now. <br /><br />And second, they unexpectedly lost one of the cherished 60 votes. <br /><br />So, at best, they need a new strategy. You can't make a 60-vote strategy work if you have 59 votes. Close doesn't count. <br /><br />Because, keep in mind, those 41 GOP senators also can say, "I won." The voters whose will they must respect are the ones who sent them there.John Stodderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185881995621265497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2213093976409953642010-02-09T23:55:19.620-06:002010-02-09T23:55:19.620-06:00The voters spoke, they got the boot, but the Repub...<i>The voters spoke, they got the boot, but the Republicans refuse to respect the will of the voters.</i><br /><br />Members of congress answer to their constituencies. The Republicans are respecting the will of their voters. Apparently, so are the Democrats which is why the health bill went down in flames. That aside, the Democrats have a majority of both houses. Their inability to pass piece-meal legislation shows that they are either incompetent or, just possibly, want to get reelected.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61505774984687734762010-02-09T23:39:42.186-06:002010-02-09T23:39:42.186-06:00Rude guests, aren't they?
"Oh, here are...Rude guests, aren't they? <br /><br />"Oh, here are all the other people you should invite."<br /><br />NEWS FLASH: The Republicans lost the election. That means their policies are not implemented.<br /><br />The voters spoke, they got the boot, but the Republicans refuse to respect the will of the voters.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3855006544499550542010-02-09T21:14:00.258-06:002010-02-09T21:14:00.258-06:00fls;
One would free doctors to maim patients with ...fls;<br /><i>One would free doctors to maim patients with impunity</i><br /><br />Well researched that there's no relationship between medical errors and malpractice suits. Also little relationship between the number or size of suits and improvement in healthcare outcomes.<br /><br />So, no there would not be massive maiming. but probably fewer dollars in lawyers' pockets.Phil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28667151513194082392010-02-09T20:57:28.884-06:002010-02-09T20:57:28.884-06:00If Obama inviting a bunch of Republicans to a heal...If Obama inviting a bunch of Republicans to a health summit last year proved he wasn't just dictating terms, didn't their accepting the invitation prove that they weren't just being obstructionist?<br /><br />What's this new summit going to accomplish that the old one didn't?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52731345783901782292010-02-09T20:14:55.156-06:002010-02-09T20:14:55.156-06:00JasonK-
Of course you can disagree with my criter...JasonK-<br /><br />Of course you can disagree with my criteria, but I'm still interested in what parts you think everyone agrees with.Ignorance is Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351664545145783244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68575110368094884462010-02-09T20:08:42.864-06:002010-02-09T20:08:42.864-06:00JasonK said...
Restarting is one option but calli...JasonK said...<br /><br /><i>Restarting is one option but calling for this is arrogant and wasteful because it assumes no value to what has been done when there are in fact many parts to the bills that neither side would argue against.</i><br /><br />Could you give some examples of these many parts? To qualify, the part would have to: <br /><br />1) Cost little or nothing.<br />2) Provide a positive benefit.<br />3) Produce no negative consequences, or at least the negative would be outweighed by the positive.<br /><br />I'm not saying there aren't such parts, I'm just curious what you think they are.Ignorance is Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351664545145783244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63606347724144039602010-02-09T20:00:22.264-06:002010-02-09T20:00:22.264-06:00A further 3.0% can be saved by eliminating the fea...<i>A further 3.0% can be saved by eliminating the fear of malpractice suits.</i><br /><br />So what is the threshold of savings that make something worthwhile?Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66179233384083280512010-02-09T19:11:32.112-06:002010-02-09T19:11:32.112-06:00fls,
And the administration response to anyone wh...fls,<br /><br />And the administration response to anyone who complained about the items on the agenda was "We Won!!" which does not signal any sort of bipartisanship. I would not quote boston.com for any sort of unbiased source if I were you. I read them every day and I know just how unbiased they are - not at all.dickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976498133597991337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90370568444632984702010-02-09T18:50:45.220-06:002010-02-09T18:50:45.220-06:00Restarting is one option but calling for this is a...Restarting is one option but calling for this is arrogant and wasteful because it assumes no value to what has been done when there are in fact many parts to the bills that neither side would argue against.<br /><br />Instead, the Democrats must legitimately request that the Republicans identify the divisive sections of the bill and then work in a bipartisan manner to either remove or rework these sections. The American people would end up with something of value. Just because a bill is big, doesn't mean it is bad.WellescentHealthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15959608376273379557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13314272858626524512010-02-09T18:03:15.952-06:002010-02-09T18:03:15.952-06:00If it were up to Obama, they would have shoved thi...<i>If it were up to Obama, they would have shoved this thing through with no support whatsoever a year ago.</i><br /><br />Many people confuse President Obama with Bizzaro-President-Obama. But he am not what you think he am.<br /><br />Real President Obama invited all possible stakeholders to his health care summit almost a year ago, because he sincerely wanted everyone's input:<br /><br /> <br />From www.boston.com<br /><br /> Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor March 5, 2009 12:17 PM <br />Healthcare is the message of the day at the White House -- and if President Obama succeeds in an overhaul that helps many of the 47 million Americans without insurance -- could be one of his signature achievements.<br /><br />Obama is convening a summit this afternoon with about 150 elected officials and representatives of groups that have much at stake in the outcome -- and that helped kill the last attempt at an overhaul during the Clinton administration 16 years ago. <br /><br />"The Forum will bring together the people who have a stake in our health care system and the people who have the ability to change it; those who worked to pass health care reform a decade ago and those who worked to defeat it,"<br /><br />While some skeptics say healthcare is too heavy a lift during a deepening recession, Obama argues that the skyrocketing medical costs make reform essential to the recovery. <br /><br />Members of Congress Expected to Attend<br /><br />Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV)<br />Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)<br />Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) – Assistant Majority Leader<br />Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-MA) – Chairman, HELP Committee <br />Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) – Ranking Member, HELP Committee <br />Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) – Chairman, Finance Committee <br />Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA) – Ranking Member, Finance Committee <br />Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) – Chairman, Health Subcommittee of the Finance<br />Committee<br />Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) – Ranking Member, Health Subcommittee (Finance<br />Committee)<br />Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) – Chairman, Appropriations Subcommittee on Health Care<br />Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) – Ranking Member, Appropriations Subcommittee on Health Care<br />Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) <br />Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT)<br />Sen. Robert Bennett (R-UT) <br />Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)<br />Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)<br />Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) <br />Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH)<br />Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)<br />Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)<br />Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) <br />Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) <br />Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) <br /><br />Speaker Nancy Pelosi<br />Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) – House Majority Leader<br />Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) – Republican Whip<br />Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-CA) – Vice Chair of Democratic Caucus <br />Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) – Chairman, Energy & Commerce Committee<br />Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) – Ranking Member, Energy & Commerce Committee<br />Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) – Chairman, Ways and Means Committee<br />Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI) – Ranking Member, Ways and Means Committee<br />Rep. George Miller (D-CA) – Chairman, Education and Labor Committee<br />Rep. Buck McKeon (R-CA) – Ranking Member, Education and Labor Committee<br />Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) – Chairman Emeritus of Energy & Commerce Committee<br />Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) – Chairman, Health Subcommittee for Energy &<br />Commerce<br />Rep. Nathan Deal (R-GA) – Ranking Member, Health Subcommittee for Energy & Commerce<br />Rep. Pete Stark (by phone) (D-CA) – Chairman, Health Subcommittee of Ways and Means <br />Rep. Wally Herger (R-CA) – Ranking Member, Health Subcommittee, Ways and<br />Means<br />Rep. Rob Andrews (D-NJ) – Chair, Education & Labor Subcommittee on Health, Labor, et al.<br />Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) <br />Rep. Baron Hill (D-IN)<br />Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)<br />Rep. Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO)<br />Rep. Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)<br />Rep. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND) <br />Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO) <br />Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-CT) <br />Rep. Donna Christensen (D-VI) <br />Rep. Tim Murphy (R-PA)<br />Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX)<br />Rep. Lois Capps (D-CA) <br />Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)<br />Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN) <br />Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-CA) <br />Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR)former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55528029757308612262010-02-09T17:27:03.636-06:002010-02-09T17:27:03.636-06:00Original Mike said...
...But for the majority, th...Original Mike said...<br /><br /><i>...But for the majority, they should be making their own decisions and paying for it themselves. Not because it's right (though it is) but because it is the only economically viable approach. Your route necessarily leads to rationing.</i><br /><br />This is what I keep coming back to. The only person qualified to make a decision based on the cost and benefits is someone who cares about both the costs and the benefits. Currently most decisions are made by individuals who don't care about the costs, because they don't pay them. That is why costs are rising so fast. Under the Democrat's plan, cost will continue to rise until the government decides to ration. That decision will be made by people who do not care about the benefits.<br /><br />The real fix is to combine the roles of cost payer, benefit receiver, and decision maker into a single person, or single family unit. While this would not be practical for every case, the more we push toward that ideal the better off we would be. If we could get to that for the majority of healthcare spending I'd be in favor of a 'public option' catastrophic health insurance that would cover only the major, unexpected expenses such as cancer, major trauma, etc.Ignorance is Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351664545145783244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85718954845241476822010-02-09T15:48:54.836-06:002010-02-09T15:48:54.836-06:00Obama said he could wring almost $50 billion a yea...Obama said he could wring almost $50 billion a year of "waste, fraud, and abuse" from Medicare for the next 10 years.<br /><br />The Republicans should tell him to send that bill to Congress right now while further discussions on health care take place because everyone can agree on that.<br /><br />Call his bluff. Obama's full of shit. If he were even 1/10th as smart as he thinks he is (because everyone applauds his average accomplishments because he is a clean articulate Negro) he would not be in a shit load of trouble.<br /><br />No one's applauding his average level of competence (for an educated person) anymore. The problem for Republicans, is almost all of them are of average competence as well.mcculloughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03168402889404727565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27347511779463805242010-02-09T15:28:38.054-06:002010-02-09T15:28:38.054-06:00Is it true that Boehner and Cantor agreed to atte...Is it true that Boehner and Cantor agreed to attend a summit at a neutral location, provided that all attendees have to show their birth certificates for entry into the room.traditionalguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05706120413005530014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47385841914675283072010-02-09T14:46:49.261-06:002010-02-09T14:46:49.261-06:00Why would Obama give up a year's worth of prog...<i>Why would Obama give up a year's worth of progress, when all that the Republicans offer is two half-baked ideas?</i><br /><br />Dude, if he could have done it without the rep's he would have done it a year ago. He's going to the republicans because <i>he has not been able to do it without them</i>. They hold the cards, they can only lose if they give in on things the public doesn't want in the false name of "bipartisanship". Here's hoping the republicans stick to their guns and require a new bill, developed with real input. We'll see if they do. <br /><br />If it were up to Obama, they would have shoved this thing through with no support whatsoever a year ago.Shannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15709594638793030086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13869048950667030172010-02-09T14:38:51.402-06:002010-02-09T14:38:51.402-06:00Why would Obama give up a year's worth of prog...<i>Why would Obama give up a year's worth of progress</i><br /><br />Somehow, this pleading line of FLS' reminded me of the punchline to that joke about the guy who was complaining about having to shovel elephant dung for the circus. After hearing his complaints, the guy's friend tells him he ought to find a new job. Shocked, the dung-shoveler replies, "What, and quit show business?" <br /><br />There's <i>progress</i>? The bill's dead. The GOP has nothing to lose by saying "hell no" to Obama's proposed summit. That's not going to win Democrats any of the votes they need. Obama's only hope of having anything to show for all that "progress" is to do exactly what the GOP's admittedly disingenuous letter suggests: Start over. The one thing he has accomplished with the health care effort is to educate a lot more people about the complexity of the issue. Both parties can work off the expanded base of collective knowledge to begin a discussion of reforms that would actually make sense -- in pursuit of the truly worthy goal of reducing the importance of health insurers to our lives. <br /><br />Here's a sketch of an idea. Transition out of the preferred tax treatment of health insurance premiums as compensation by temporarily allowing employees to take all the money allocated for that purpose as direct salary compensation at a lower tax rate. So, if your employer pays you $2000 a month plus $300 a month toward your health insurance premium, give you the choice of continuing to direct those funds to insurance, or to take those funds as compensation and only pay, say, a 10 percent income tax on it. It won't be added to the base for your overall income tax except at the state level. It wouldn't be included in calculation of your payroll tax. That preferred tax treatment would last for five years, say, after which point the preferred tax treatment of health insurance premiums would end along with this transitional tax benefit. <br /><br />However, perhaps you would retain the tax exemption for catastrophic health coverage. And the self-employed could get a tax credit for it. So the insurance industry would no longer be in the business of paying part of the cost of routine doctor visits, just major surgery and major illnesses. You would be encouraged to buy such coverage for your kids the day they're born. <br /><br />Without all the biases in the system toward health insurance premiums and coverage, I think you'd see medical prices go down. We would all have a big incentive for shopping around, and a medical industry equivalent of Wal-Mart would develop to meet the demand for lower-priced care. <br /><br />wv: mintiums. The least acceptable amount of mint.John Stodderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185881995621265497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49759240461650233682010-02-09T14:22:28.944-06:002010-02-09T14:22:28.944-06:00once again the liberals complete lack of understan...once again the liberals complete lack of understanding of free market capitalism is leaving them unarmed in the health care debate.<br />They live under and perticipate in some form of it everyday yet they never seem to grasp its mechanics.<br />They think that if you get hit by a bus you won't be able to "shop around". They don't understand that you won't have to shop around because real free market competition will have lowered prices everywhere. That is why if you need something now going to Target or Kmart or Walmart really doesn't matter. By competing they all have lowered their prices. Yes, you may find on certain items Walmart beats Target and vice versa but the point is everyone benefited from prices going down, even people that never shop around.The Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09554055593581812426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50417098741113117002010-02-09T14:09:18.937-06:002010-02-09T14:09:18.937-06:00What about the Paul Ryan proposal? I know it's...What about the Paul Ryan <a href="http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/PCAsummary2p.pdf" rel="nofollow">proposal</a>? I know it's probably ridiculous to think any new and/or Republican options would actually be considered, but still, I'd like to hear a discussion of the merits somewhere at some point.Calypso Factohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455217189407301218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75694887787572192542010-02-09T13:15:05.406-06:002010-02-09T13:15:05.406-06:00It's simple. The Democrats want socialism, Ch...It's simple. The Democrats want socialism, Chicago style, complete with graft, corruption, and huge new bureaucracies.<br /><br />It will be 'projected to save loads of money, but in the end, as usual, will cost tens or hundreds of times what was intended (see also "Medicare, US, history" and "NHS, England" and "Medicare, Canada".<br /><br />It's the usual economic perpetual motion machine, now with the new hope and change flavor!KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80738992022168429252010-02-09T13:01:11.405-06:002010-02-09T13:01:11.405-06:00Even Bill Kristol knows that this R* letter was s...Even Bill Kristol <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/09/kristol-gop-preconditions-silly/" rel="nofollow"> knows that this R* letter was stupid and not worthy of a response. </a><br /><br /><br /><br />*R refers to 'Republican'. This is not a satirical (hence acceptable to Palin) reference to 'retarded'.Sprezzaturahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859397164637821056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91020031855517469152010-02-09T12:56:38.372-06:002010-02-09T12:56:38.372-06:00So here's my question. Is Ann Althouse just re...<i>So here's my question. Is Ann Althouse just retarded or a liar?</i><br /><br />I think Meade can answer that one. Probably with the knuckles of his right hand.<br /><br />(Or are you a southpaw, Meade?)Big Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831645119853118904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5028764897422495692010-02-09T12:43:12.428-06:002010-02-09T12:43:12.428-06:00Jesus.
Well, you want the full savings, right? El...<i>Jesus.</i><br /><br />Well, you want the full savings, right? Eliminating all malpractice awards and settlements shaves only0.5% off the cost of health care. A further 3.0% can be saved by eliminating the fear of malpractice suits.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73415574755980018042010-02-09T12:17:20.436-06:002010-02-09T12:17:20.436-06:00One would free doctors to maim patients with impun...<i>One would free doctors to maim patients with impunity</i><br /><br />Jesus.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23784707578779574162010-02-09T12:13:23.128-06:002010-02-09T12:13:23.128-06:00"When Bambi is sincere about anything biparti...<i>"When Bambi is sincere about anything bipartisan, you'll see an elephant fly."</i><br /><br />I agree; I'd love for him to stop promoting Republican policies and star moving away from the right. It won't happen.Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15873597043429003752010-02-09T12:12:21.207-06:002010-02-09T12:12:21.207-06:00FLS: Why would Obama give up a year's worth of...FLS: <i>Why would Obama give up a year's worth of progress,</i><br /><br />*snicker*<br /><br /><br /><i>when all that the Republicans offer is two half-baked ideas?</i><br /><br />You are SO ignorant. You've been using the NYTs as you information broker again, haven't you?<br /><br />One day, you'll recognize that you are only as good as your information.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.com