tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8868320659821025654..comments2024-03-29T03:05:05.850-05:00Comments on Althouse: Bad science and why we get fat.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65132160379753393992011-05-02T13:25:49.716-05:002011-05-02T13:25:49.716-05:00This is mind-boggling. I'm a believer. His pa...This is mind-boggling. I'm a believer. His painstaking approach to research and the dubunking of bad science makes me wish he'd tackle global warming next. None of us laypeople know what to think about anything scientific any more, and Taubes makes us realize that relying on the "experts" isn't always wise.sixty-fivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09090577882983539958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63145568503666847882011-04-30T23:13:57.022-05:002011-04-30T23:13:57.022-05:00Anthropomorphized Global Warming.Anthropomorphized Global Warming.El Presidentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810633399405341591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11985528204938862512011-04-30T22:14:56.027-05:002011-04-30T22:14:56.027-05:00rhhardin,
That's interesting. I had no idea...rhhardin, <br /><br />That's interesting. I had no idea.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14238919851682732832011-04-30T19:14:32.156-05:002011-04-30T19:14:32.156-05:00Did I ever tell you why low pressure areas have cl...<i>Did I ever tell you why low pressure areas have clouds and high have clear weather?<br /><br />Why?</i><br /><br />Winds near the ground are slower than aloft, and so leak into low pressure areas when winds aloft just circle the low pressure area.<br /><br />This leakage-in adds air to the low at the bottom, and that causes the air in the low to rise, which causes moisture to condense and power the circulation of the low.<br /><br />It's the reverse for high, where air leaks out at the bottom and causes the air in the high to sink and warm, which evaporates the moisture into clear weather.<br /><br />(Pilots' rule of thumb: the winds aloft are 45 dgrees further from the right than on the ground; this is the leakage angle.)rhhardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901742898653890646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84716847192841826382011-04-30T19:01:34.874-05:002011-04-30T19:01:34.874-05:00Folks who need to lose weight should try well-reas...<i>Folks who need to lose weight should try well-reasoned approaches until they find the one that works for them.</i><br /><br />Says Kohath.<br /><br />Yep. Individuals are so different. And, as I've learned, an individual can be different at different points in her life. I lost a significant amount of weight some years ago by eating less and exercising more. Now, I have baby weight to lose and have tried the old approach without the same success. I'm willing to try another approach at this point and the carb issue makes intuitive and experiential sense to me, for me, at this stage of my life. It may not be the same for others and I'm cool with that. <br /><br />Individual physiology varies.LawGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487756571738593721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20299761523170461722011-04-30T17:40:06.328-05:002011-04-30T17:40:06.328-05:00Statistically it doesn't work.
As I said, it ...<i>Statistically it doesn't work.</i><br /><br />As I said, it only works if you actually do it.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure anyone who loses 100 pounds on any diet is a statistical outlier. So I guess none of the other diets work statistically either.<br /><br /><br />I could claim that your diet doesn't work. But that would be a huge disservice to anyone who needed to lose weight and decided not to try it. It works for you, so obviously it's a reasonable thing for someone to try.<br /><br />The same is true for a calories in vs. calories out approach based mostly on eating less (rather than exercise). It will work for some people. I know firsthand. <br /><br />Folks who need to lose weight should try well-reasoned approaches until they find the one that works for them.Kohathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05408668865364074575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43071951014362321462011-04-30T17:25:24.512-05:002011-04-30T17:25:24.512-05:00Even so, I think he's actually right about ins...<i>Even so, I think he's actually right about insulin. But then he goes nuts and claims insulin is The Answer and all other answers are wrong.</i><br /><br />Link, please? <br />I don't have Taubes' most recent book but I have GCBC and he says no such thing. In the diavlog here he specifically says there are people who can eat tons of carbs and stay lean. <br /><br />People with metabolic syndrome aka insulin resistance, can't, though, and Taubes is saying that we become insulin resistant by having such a huge proportion of our calories come from sugars and starches. <br /><br />I know that I can occasionally eat starches (pasta, breads) and drink wine without gaining, but when I eat sweets, I gain. I also gain when I'm under a lot of stress - no matter how well I control what I eat -- because stress affects insulin levels, too.Joanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093453920666892035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63096454769895245232011-04-30T17:18:04.883-05:002011-04-30T17:18:04.883-05:00Other answers work for other people. Restricting c...<i>Other answers work for other people. Restricting calories works, but only if you actually do it and continue it in amounts that matter. Saying that it doesn't work is false and harmful.</i><br /><br />Statistically it <i>doesn't</i> work. It's great you were able to make it work, but you're an outlier. For most people it's bad advice.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45670194415095414092011-04-30T17:13:20.586-05:002011-04-30T17:13:20.586-05:00I read the Taubes book a few months back and what ...<i>I read the Taubes book a few months back and what he is saying tracks very well to my own experience. I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic just over a year ago and my doctor's advice was to cut out the carbs. I eat whatever else I want and as much as I want an have managed to lose about 40 pounds.</i><br /><br />This has been my experience as well. I've always had trouble with my weight - either I was dieting and it went down, or I wasn't and it went up.<br /><br />Since I cut back on the starches things are much more stable. When I diet I lose weight. When I don't... I don't gain weight. So I've been losing pretty steadily without putting in any more effort than this: No bread, no potatoes. Rice or pasta once or twice a week.<br /><br />Exercise doesn't seem to matter much, as expected. A pound of fat takes your body about 2 calories a day to maintain. A pound of muscle takes 6. Turn ten pounds of fat into ten pounds of muscle and your calorie budget increases a whopping 40 calories, or about half a teaspoon of butter.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39101786476799461832011-04-30T17:05:14.733-05:002011-04-30T17:05:14.733-05:00HT, You say, "For energy in/energy out refuta...HT, You say, "For energy in/energy out refutation, is at minute 41. " Taubes doesn't refute this at all, he explains why it is the wrong focus.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6689894792220627212011-04-30T17:00:19.975-05:002011-04-30T17:00:19.975-05:00This is an excellent interview and I recommend it ...This is an excellent interview and I recommend it whole-heartedly. I have a new found respect for both of these gentlemen. <br /><br />But I do wonder, after all of that, why no mention of <i>The Zone</i>, Barry Sears or <i>Sugar Blues</i>, William Duffy? Ha ha ha, I keed, I keed.Chip Ahoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12597726289890879627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79302894087440141352011-04-30T16:40:04.558-05:002011-04-30T16:40:04.558-05:00HT
Why should I listen to him when his message pr...HT<br /><br />Why should I listen to him when his message prominently includes falsehoods?<br /><br />Even so, I think he's actually right about insulin. But then he goes nuts and claims insulin is The Answer and all other answers are wrong. No. Insulin is <i>part of </i> the answer <i>for some people</i>. <br /><br />Other answers work for other people. Restricting calories works, but only if you actually do it and continue it in amounts that matter. Saying that it doesn't work is false and harmful. It's a betrayal of everyone who believes him and loses a chance at weight loss and better health.<br /><br />I lost over 100 pounds, mostly by simply eating less. What if I had listened to someone like Taubes who said it doesn't work and it's impossible and no one can do it? Maybe I'd still be huge. Maybe I'd be dead. Who knows?<br /><br />A major step for me was when I decided to stop listening to anyone's diet advice and just eat less.Kohathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05408668865364074575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31464392232980907722011-04-30T15:48:44.136-05:002011-04-30T15:48:44.136-05:00dbp said...
HT, I don't think you are rea...dbp said...<br /><br /> HT, I don't think you are really understanding what Taubes is getting at when he talks about calories in/out. Children will in fact stop growing if you starve them. It is just that usually, nutrition isn't the issue in stunted growth, hormone levels are the issue.<br />___<br /><br />I'm sorry, how am I not understanding? What did I say? Taubes in the next breath says what you say. He says it's not calories, it's hormones. You say it's hormones. Not getting something here.HThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11164697644251374452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11995264365759476402011-04-30T15:36:58.930-05:002011-04-30T15:36:58.930-05:00I have the "Why" book. I also have many...I have the "Why" book. I also have many fat friends who have been on the Atkins diet for years.<br /><br />When I was running 6 miles a day (and that in my aging 40's when I would theoretically gain weight unless I ran 13 miles a day), I could have eaten nothing but donuts and never gained an ounce.Mark Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15884518441515988550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15089177945966460242011-04-30T15:35:17.066-05:002011-04-30T15:35:17.066-05:00You should watch the documentary "Fathead&quo...You should watch the documentary "Fathead" on Netflix. It's all about this topic.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44377893801460601272011-04-30T15:33:38.557-05:002011-04-30T15:33:38.557-05:00Type 1 which is childhood diabetes does cause peop...<i>Type 1 which is childhood diabetes does cause people to tend to lose weight. Sudden weight loss is one of the symptoms to diagnose a person with Type 1 diabetes. </i><br /><br />Used to work with a guy who inexplicably lost fifty pounds over a short period of time. He went to the doctor terrified and certain that he would come back with a cancer diagnosis. <br /><br />You've never seen a man so elated to find out he had diabetes.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53431429058698244492011-04-30T15:31:55.739-05:002011-04-30T15:31:55.739-05:00Did I ever tell you why low pressure areas have cl...<i>Did I ever tell you why low pressure areas have clouds and high have clear weather?</i><br /><br />Why?Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60252772082392543132011-04-30T15:31:17.036-05:002011-04-30T15:31:17.036-05:00HT, I don't think you are really understandin...HT, I don't think you are really understanding what Taubes is getting at when he talks about calories in/out. Children <i>will in fact</i> stop growing if you starve them. It is just that usually, nutrition isn't the issue in stunted growth, hormone levels are the issue.<br /><br />If you are on a starvation diet of fewer calories in than out, you will loose weight--this is physics. Normal people cannot loose this weight this way though because it is too unpleasant and they will quit. Carbohydrate restriction is the proper paradigm according to Taubes. This is because it works <i>and</i> people with normal will-power can do it.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43771588168152231232011-04-30T15:30:55.287-05:002011-04-30T15:30:55.287-05:00Have your thyroid checked.
A long while back I as...Have your thyroid checked.<br /><br />A long while back I asked in the comments on this very blog something like, "C'mon, how many people really have thyroid problems?"<br /><br />The answer, as it turned out, was at least one more than I thought (me), so it's probably worth a quick check.<br /><br />Excuse me while I settle in for a meal of crow.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54623681759084628362011-04-30T15:24:58.802-05:002011-04-30T15:24:58.802-05:00Calories in vs. calories out. As a chemical engin...Calories in vs. calories out. As a chemical engineering major as an undergraduate, we took a course called "Material and Energy Balances." The potentially significant mistake people are making is that "calories out" is that number which is used in exercise. I am quite certain that feces has a nonzero Gibbs free energy content. I have seen reference to (but have yet to actually pin down) a study in Africa by Burkitt which examined how much caloric content exits as feces. It is claimed that it was substantial and diet-dependent. A PubMed search for "caloric content of feces" produces a whopping 23 hits (that's sarcasm; search for the enzyme I study and you get thousands of hits). "Free energy content of feces" produces 42 hits (didn't check to see how many were duplicates). One of the 20 hits produced by searching "Burkitt feces" is probably the relevant study, but the ones that look applicable don't have an abstract available. The laws of thermodynamics aren't just guidelines.Crimsohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01618292072861640747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29204515074359905802011-04-30T15:02:47.346-05:002011-04-30T15:02:47.346-05:00I will say people have not read or listened to the...I will say people have not read or listened to the man when it's apparent they haven't, when they just state generalizations and say if we just moderated our intake we wouldn't even have to listen to Taubes.<br /><br />If you cite specific parts of the books, of course I won't say you are ignorant of Taubes' books. <br /><br />I'll respond with a quote of his from the diavblog<br /><br />"when you're obese or diabetic you are hyper insulemic. You're insulin resistant which causes you to have high insulin levels. When you have high levels, not only are you storing calories as fat, but the only fuel that your muscle will burn are carbs. The insulin signals the mitochondria in your cels to burn carbs not fat. So basically carbs are the fuel for fat people. That's why you crave them."<br /><br />If you feel this does not adequately respond to your specific point, I will have to do better and find a more germane quote. <br /><br />For energy in/energy out refutation, is at minute 41. <br />"Calories are the wrong paradigm." He cites children as an example - "children take in more energy than they expend. Growth is a hormonal issue, not an energy in / energy out issue."<br /><br />Refutation of sedentary behavior as cause: minute 43<br /><br />BTW, which book do you reference? GCBC or Why We Get Fat? (Not that I have either, but I will go to the library.)HThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11164697644251374452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44911594524610892812011-04-30T14:54:37.313-05:002011-04-30T14:54:37.313-05:00"Each person has to find their balance, but c..."Each person has to find their balance, but clearly the eating habits most Americans is not healthy, and this fixation on sugar is just one of the negatives."<br /><br />Many of my students are nutrition majors, and it heartens me to see how much they are willing to admit is still unknown. "Each person" indeed. I tell them that there will come a day when nutrition and metabolism is so well-understood that each individual will see a nutritionist to determine their individual dietary needs.<br /><br />Insulin, BTW, has a major role in all of metabolism, not just carbohydrate. Some people even consider it to be a growth factor (the IGF's, insulin-like growth factors, are called that for a reason). I have seen diabetes described as a condition wherein "the body acts as though it is starving when it is in the midst of plenty." It most definitely affects lipid metabolism. This last bit of pedantry is for rhhardin.Crimsohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01618292072861640747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20504755211524221052011-04-30T14:52:54.545-05:002011-04-30T14:52:54.545-05:00Here, from page 45 of the book is the “refutation”...Here, from page 45 of the book is the “refutation” of calories in-calories out theory of weight gain, or the basic proposition of “scientists.”<br /><br />He recounts some “observations” that runners, as they aged, seemingly, had to run farther “if they wanted to remain lean.” From this he waxes on and on and concludes: “If we believe in calories-in/calories-out, and that n turn leads us to conclude that we have to run half-marathons five days a week (in our forties, and more in our fifties, and more in our sixties . . .) To maintain our weight, it may, once again, be time to question our underlying beliefs.”<br /><br />If you are willing to accept this sort of sleight of hand (or word) as science, go ahead. But, please don’t argue that those who find it just a book are somehow ignorant of its contents.Mark Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15884518441515988550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78008860760298683682011-04-30T14:47:39.265-05:002011-04-30T14:47:39.265-05:00themightypuck said...
What I love about Taube...themightypuck said...<br /><br /> What I love about Taubes is that he offers persuasive arguments. I don't know if he is right or not but he is a billion times more compelling than his critics. One thing I'd like to hear about is they physiology of eating fat. What happens if I chug a bottle of olive oil? How does the fat in the oil turn into fat in my body? At least in the dvlog, Taubes doesn't address that issue.<br /><br /> 4/30/11 2:29 PM<br /><br />___<br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />What I'd like to hear about even more than the olive oil is the meat fat. This is something I am particularly concerned about given my recent diagnosis of Celiac disease. Not that I ate a lot of bread pre-diagnosis, but what my CD means to me now is that I must eat more meat than ever. I also eat fish (not as much) and of course chicken a lot. But it's of course the red meat I'm concerned about. Taubes all but ridicules the AHA proponents and officials for linking that high fat to heart disease and diabetes. I understand (or I'm getting there) him when he says it's really the carbs, and when he shows how. However, and I guess it's hard to prove a negative, it is less clear to me that high meat fat diets are not correlative to heart disease. He recently posted his lipids. I wish I could read those tests better. My cholesterol has been more or less fine, but I know I eat way less red meat than he does. <br /><br />If the science is there, my talent at discerning it (so far) is not.<br /><br />Olive oil (in my mind) is different. But who'd want to chug it?? I read an article that states that most of the world's olive oil (including Italy's) is not 100% olive oil.HThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11164697644251374452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11258642990157130312011-04-30T14:39:28.154-05:002011-04-30T14:39:28.154-05:00I agree, DBQ. I eat MORE food now than when I stuc...I agree, DBQ. I eat MORE food now than when I stuck to the high carb, low meat, pasta with tomato type diet.<br /><br />I am not hungry, ever. If you eat three meals plus your snacks, you will not have cravings. It's true. I do cheat: Sometimes wine at night or a pastry in the morning. The only "will power" required is when I choose to have a little cookie instead of a bear claw with my espresso in the morning (depending on my current weight).PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.com