tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8674255284847400335..comments2024-03-28T17:12:36.615-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Dead Ambassador dragged through streets, MSM furious at Romney criticism of Obama."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger302125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52767722101628591812012-09-13T13:19:44.987-05:002012-09-13T13:19:44.987-05:00It is a triumph for Obama and Clinton's polici...<i>It is a triumph for Obama and Clinton's policies in Libya and a stark contrast to the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan.</i><br /><br />Huh? Could you explain that? We have allies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. A consulate gets attacked in only one of those countries - Libya. Where is the success in Libya?AlanKHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415873942467466303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51128417340453638072012-09-12T22:27:28.790-05:002012-09-12T22:27:28.790-05:00So was his body dragged through the streets or car...So was his body dragged through the streets or carried to the hospital?<br /><br />There must be a source more credible than Hillary and the Administration on this.hombrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12670099074010641958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13183540426296553202012-09-12T21:56:53.637-05:002012-09-12T21:56:53.637-05:00What has been remarkable to me is the response of ...What has been remarkable to me is the response of the Libyan government and the Libyan people. They seem genuinely remorseful for these deaths. <br /><br />This is what winning the hearts and minds of the people looks like. It is a triumph for Obama and Clinton's policies in Libya and a stark contrast to the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are not doomed to an endless cycle of conflict with all muslim countries. Effective foreign policies can break this cycle. We should support these people and their elected leaders, not try to score cheap political points that undermine this effort. The Libyans obviously have problems with a continuing civil war but there is an equally clear attempt to forge a reconciliation with the west. Let's hope this continues and doesn't get derailed by domestic political rivalries.Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2437888881641557552012-09-12T21:46:30.022-05:002012-09-12T21:46:30.022-05:00Why didn't they super-size the defenses at emb...Why didn't they super-size the defenses at embassies and consulates in Egypt and Libya as soon as each country became tinderboxes? <br /><br />(Respectively, at the onset of the Arab "Spring" and whenever it was that we had actual embassies/consulates in Libya.)<br /><br />They deserve to pack more heat than Janet Reno's raid on Mount Carmel.AlanKHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415873942467466303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38988652476726417472012-09-12T21:34:04.017-05:002012-09-12T21:34:04.017-05:00Freder Frederson said...
As a leader, you are res...Freder Frederson said... <br />As a leader, you are responsible for your subordinates. It is part of being a leader.<br /><br />It doesn't mean you have to affirm, believe or agree with everything your subordinates say.<br /><br /><br />No. It means the subordanants follow the policies that their leader espouses or they keep their traps shut.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86134260432579201972012-09-12T21:09:50.401-05:002012-09-12T21:09:50.401-05:00"I know politicians, including the President,..."<i>I know politicians, including the President, love Twitter. I just can't figure out why.</i>"<br /><br />I agree with Freder. I think it's important to say that. We shouldn't disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. Better to find common ground.<br /><br />The usefulness of Twitter seems to be in encouraging people to push out short, ill thought, statements. Verbal diarrhea on purpose and by design.<br /><br />Our *diplomats* shouldn't tweet. Our President shouldn't tweet. Romeny should not tweet. Ryan should not tweet. Our elected officials, cabinet members, and military brass should not tweet.<br /><br />The past tense of tweet is twat.<br /><br />(just saying)Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42952331136569628442012-09-12T21:04:16.543-05:002012-09-12T21:04:16.543-05:00Our current involvement in Libya seems reasonable ...<i>Our current involvement in Libya seems reasonable to me.<br /><br />So, you didn't really mean<br />"If this means continuing to invade sovereign countries at enormous cost for no good reason. Then no, I think we are past that stage, at least as far as Obama is concerned."</i><br /><br />This is transparent BS. The US has a very small diplomatic presence in Libya. Tragically it is now somewhat smaller. There is no invasion or occupation.<br /><br /><i>By no reasonable standard could we be said to have invaded the country, although we clearly took sides in a civil war. This was remarkably cost free for us, literally everyone hated Gaddafi. Not a single country objected to his ouster. <br /><br />Well, as long as it's the popular thing, then it's free to contradict one of your beliefs.</i><br /><br />It was a civil war. Should we have supported Gaddafi?Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85926008968056436222012-09-12T21:03:42.277-05:002012-09-12T21:03:42.277-05:00"BTW when Bush was in office they appologized..."<i>BTW when Bush was in office they appologized for anti-Muslim cartoons. Where was the outrage then?</i>"<br /><br />Um... I'm pretty sure that Bush was roundly criticized for that, just like people railed about him continuing to call Islam "the Religion of Peace".<br /><br />Pretending that no one criticized Bush is silly. Do you REALLY not think he got criticized for that?Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47521154172501209342012-09-12T18:37:51.992-05:002012-09-12T18:37:51.992-05:00Our current involvement in Libya seems reasonable ...<b>Our current involvement in Libya seems reasonable to me.</b><br /><br />So, you didn't really mean<br />"If this means continuing to invade sovereign countries at enormous cost for no good reason. Then no, I think we are past that stage, at least as far as Obama is concerned."<br />?<br /><br /><b> We are advancing our interests in stabilizing a secular democracy in an arab state, largely by diplomatic means, at least up until yesterday.</b><br /><br />If your policy can't last a full 2 years --- then it's not a good policy. Sorry. And the issues were painfully apparent before we even got involved. <br /><br />And I was unaware that lobbing missiles = diplomacy.<br /><br /><b>By no reasonable standard could we be said to have invaded the country, although we clearly took sides in a civil war. This was remarkably cost free for us, literally everyone hated Gaddafi. Not a single country objected to his ouster. </b><br /><br />Well, as long as it's the popular thing, then it's free to contradict one of your beliefs.<br /><br /><b>What they weren't doing is sitting on their ass, riding their car elevator and second guessing our f**king president.</b><br /><br />Dissent is not patriotic, eh?<br /><br /><b>Why was the Ambassador not better protected? Why were mobs in two countries able to storm our embassies on the anniversary of 9/11?</b><br /><br />And why was Obama caught so flat-footed about the possibility that an attack might occur on 9/11? Especially one as clearly planned as this one has been thus far?<br /><br />Perhaps he shouldn't have been skipping so many briefings?<br /><br /><b>Also, Obama directed "Jerusalem" and "God" be put back in the Democratic Party platform as soon as Drudge made an issue of it.</b><br /><br />I was also impressed with how he slapped down Bill Maher, who has never, EVER insulted religion...damikeschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02133230009952160269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83687296154881533642012-09-12T18:12:13.166-05:002012-09-12T18:12:13.166-05:00BTW when Bush was in office they appologized for a...<br /><i>BTW when Bush was in office they appologized for anti-Muslim cartoons. Where was the outrage then?</i><br /><br />Maybe you missed it, but South Park had an amazing take on that whole issue. One of the best statements about our country and free speech ever.MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38558853547449907392012-09-12T18:08:43.699-05:002012-09-12T18:08:43.699-05:00Andy, if you want to say that this is polarization...Andy, if you want to say that this is polarization of this attack, then what was the response of the democrats and libs during pretty much every action George Bush took during his presidency, not just with the war on terror (hell every time there was a question of raising or lowering the threat level it was a political play by the dems) but also with Katrina. We were still digging people out of their houses when the dems and libs were already mocking bush for saying heckuva a job, and saying that he KNEW the levees were going to be topped. We had nearly 8 years of non stop politization of every event . Im surprised you're not aware of this.<br />Actually I know you are aware but because it was your side doing it you don't care. So go F yourself Andy.<br /><br /><br />And how was this supposed to work anyway. Should romney have to wait three days after an event to make a comment about it? And why? It's not as if the press will actuall question the president about it. If rom dy didn't make the point the press would probably as we speak be putting this event down the memory hole.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65541727814566216382012-09-12T18:01:41.107-05:002012-09-12T18:01:41.107-05:00Yes but the WH wrote "The statement by Embass...<b>Yes but the WH wrote "The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government." </b><br /><br />Also, Obama directed "Jerusalem" and "God" be put back in the Democratic Party platform as soon as Drudge made an issue of it.MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46753598889974980702012-09-12T17:58:52.109-05:002012-09-12T17:58:52.109-05:00Balfegor
Yes but the WH wrote "The statement...Balfegor<br /><br />Yes but the WH wrote "The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government." <br /><br />This fact was publicly known before Romney got into this silly political game.<br /><br />But one thing is clear; No American official has "sympathized" with any "attacker" of any kind. Romney knows this but he is playing games.<br /><br />BTW when Bush was in office they appologized for anti-Muslim cartoons. Where was the outrage then?Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04977662030208589392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53681255351730261812012-09-12T17:58:40.051-05:002012-09-12T17:58:40.051-05:00Politico is reporting the only security at the Ben...Politico is reporting the only security at the Benghazi facility was locked doors. <br /><br />So yeah, that seems to me like craven abuse of men dedicated to their cause. Not protecting them in the most dangerous of circumstances, in a place known to house terrorists.<br /><br />What does this tell us about our state department?MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69945495495474875412012-09-12T17:57:53.533-05:002012-09-12T17:57:53.533-05:00"Why was the Ambassador not better protected?..."Why was the Ambassador not better protected? Why were mobs in two countries able to storm our embassies on the anniversary of 9/11?"<br /><br />And, why was this a surprise, where were the intel masters?<br /><br />Answer: Multiculturalism, Ideology.David R. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16416692639208634879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26534235474285057102012-09-12T17:55:18.614-05:002012-09-12T17:55:18.614-05:00Hey, Hillary, Susan and Samantha, how's that M...Hey, Hillary, Susan and Samantha, how's that Multicultural-Multilateral stuff workin' out for ya?<br /><br />Poster Child for Multiculturalism:<br /><br />Picture of Ambassador's body being dragged in triumph.David R. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16416692639208634879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59674602450067583172012-09-12T17:49:50.981-05:002012-09-12T17:49:50.981-05:00"No. If it were State Run Media, it would be ..."No. If it were State Run Media, it would be just as fawning to Republicans in office.<br /><br />This is Party-Run Media. Pravda. Yellow Journalism. The Propaganda Arm of the Democrat Party."<br /><br />Good point, true.David R. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16416692639208634879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8453716308404943642012-09-12T17:32:32.216-05:002012-09-12T17:32:32.216-05:00I mean, just because someone is willing to die for...I mean, just because someone is willing to die for their cause, it doesn't mean the US has to let them.MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8300365067565401102012-09-12T17:29:16.365-05:002012-09-12T17:29:16.365-05:00The real question there is, did they really have t...The real question there is, did they really have to die for their cause?<br /><br />Why was the Ambassador not better protected? Why were mobs in two countries able to storm our embassies on the anniversary of 9/11? MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39800157493394896672012-09-12T17:27:45.459-05:002012-09-12T17:27:45.459-05:00The men who died in Libya are American heroes who ...<i>The men who died in Libya are American heroes who took on a dangerous job in the full knowledge that Libya is not a safe place at the moment. We should stand in awe of their sacrifice and understand it was taken in full knowledge of the risks involved. There are real American interests at stake here and these men were willing to make sacrifices to advance their country's long term diplomatic goals.</i><br /><br />So in your opinion, does people being willing to die for a cause give legitimacy and correctness to their cause?MayBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11966319657113124861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66055671527319106592012-09-12T17:17:31.612-05:002012-09-12T17:17:31.612-05:00I have my own ideas about what our interests in Li...<i>I have my own ideas about what our interests in Libya are, but those interests were a lot vaguer and more amorphous than, say, the EU's goals (to avoid a flood of refugees if Qaddafi successfully crushed the rebellion).</i><br /><br />You seemed to sum up our interests up pretty well: oil, long-term stability in the region and support for our closest allies. This and the fact that literally everyone hated Gadaffi. Not a single country or person stood up for this prick or mourned him when he was killed. He was apparently the most disliked person on the planet. It was largely cost-free for us in terms of realpolitik, maybe even a net plus.Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37611820530425405762012-09-12T16:56:37.863-05:002012-09-12T16:56:37.863-05:00There are real American interests at stake here?
...<i>There are real American interests at stake here</i>?<br /><br />Like what? I have my own ideas about what our interests in Libya are, but those interests were a lot vaguer and more amorphous than, say, the EU's goals (to avoid a flood of refugees if Qaddafi successfully crushed the rebellion). Interested to hear what you think our interest in Libya was. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Libya" rel="nofollow">Oil</a>? The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine#Democratic_regime_change" rel="nofollow">Bush Doctrine</a>?Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33002077639268264582012-09-12T16:50:37.633-05:002012-09-12T16:50:37.633-05:00And once more Shiloh's post can be boiled down...And once more Shiloh's post can be boiled down to:<br /><br />"Mittens! Lol"<br /><br /><br /><br />Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14436178562390102857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11151318745235396892012-09-12T16:42:07.016-05:002012-09-12T16:42:07.016-05:00Balfegor said...
We're still waiting for that ...<i>Balfegor said...<br />We're still waiting for that bill to show up. I think we ought to be pretty concerned that the bill is not going to be anywhere as cheap as we thought.</i><br /><br />Of course there will be some blow-back. The men who died in Libya are American heroes who took on a dangerous job in the full knowledge that Libya is not a safe place at the moment. We should stand in awe of their sacrifice and understand it was taken in full knowledge of the risks involved. There are real American interests at stake here and these men were willing to make sacrifices to advance their country's long term diplomatic goals.<br /><br />What they weren't doing is sitting on their ass, riding their car elevator and second guessing our f**king president.Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78427584841906678962012-09-12T16:37:40.449-05:002012-09-12T16:37:40.449-05:00RE: AReasonableMan:
Don't think your facts ar...RE: AReasonableMan:<br /><br /><i>Don't think your facts are quite straight on this one. The guys we backed apologized, very quickly, for this attack</i>.<br /><br />It is good that the people we installed in power are behaving well. But we knew long ago that the rebel forces we were assisting <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8414583/Libya-al-Qaeda-among-Libya-rebels-Nato-chief-fears.html" rel="nofollow">included Al Qaeda</a>. There may be factional infighting, but I have 0 confidence that there's no Al Qaeda working within the government's forces today, especially given reports that the Libyan security personnel betrayed the ambassador to the protesters.Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.com