tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8417923986988396536..comments2024-03-28T07:07:44.859-05:00Comments on Althouse: "In a last-ditch effort to stop the passage of Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget repair bill, all 14 Senate Democrats staged a walk-out Thursday..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48511596817520922122011-02-18T13:32:00.978-06:002011-02-18T13:32:00.978-06:00Can the Republicans at this point get together and...Can the Republicans at this point get together and change the rules of the Senate to lower the requirement for a quorum?dickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976498133597991337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20006819849009742702011-02-18T10:32:13.596-06:002011-02-18T10:32:13.596-06:00Wonder if those cell phones are being paid for by ...Wonder if those cell phones are being paid for by the state of WI?Lorenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07920825444735982610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83226355524410452782011-02-18T09:38:23.084-06:002011-02-18T09:38:23.084-06:00Question: as one of the penalties to those members...Question: as one of the penalties to those members who are absent without leave, could their legislative house cancel their health insurance?Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5767590482881057302011-02-18T09:34:31.123-06:002011-02-18T09:34:31.123-06:00I think that while they’ve fled the State, the ent...I think that while they’ve fled the State, the entire contents of their offices should be moved into a broom closet. When / if they return, that’s all they get for an office for the remainder of their term.<br /><br />And dock their pay for every day that they’re gone.Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58931618517110932872011-02-18T09:27:10.933-06:002011-02-18T09:27:10.933-06:00Article 4, Section 28. [Oath of office.]
Members...Article 4, Section 28. [Oath of office.] <br /><br />Members of the legislature, and all officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe an oath or affirmation to support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and <b>to faithfully discharge the duties of their respective offices to the best of their ability.</b>"Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91851494913618243222011-02-18T09:20:42.369-06:002011-02-18T09:20:42.369-06:00I would support a law that declares "fleeing ...I would support a law that declares "fleeing the state to prevent quorum is considered abdication". The offending congress-critter is stripped of his office and the Governor appoints his replacement until special elections are held.<br /><br />Also, teachers should not be allowed to involve their students in poltical protests that affect their interests. Its exploitation. Its child abuse.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56585732497387629802011-02-18T09:14:23.322-06:002011-02-18T09:14:23.322-06:00Under standard parliamentary law, members who refu...Under standard parliamentary law, members who refuse to respond to a "call" may be fined. In fact, the Wisconsin Constitution specifically provides that each house "may compel the attendance of absent members <i>in such manner and under such penalties</i> as each house may provide" (Article IV, Section 7). The Democratic members are absent without leave of the Senate--in flagrant violation of Wisconsin Senate Rule 16. The Senate Republicans have a quorum for conducting regular business (as opposed to the special quorum needed for fiscal bills), so they need not wait for the Democrats to return to be able to start imposing penalties. I think that the threat of making them forfeit a month's pay (or more, if necessary) would be enough to compel at least one of them to return. Don't you?<br /><br />Politically, I think, the voters would be pretty receptive to this. If you don't show up for work, you don't get paid. It's pretty simple. State senators should be no different.<br /><br />(Interestingly, the Wisconsin Constitution provides no limits for these penalties. The only limit is that it must be within the jurisdiction of the State of Wisconsin. Theoretically, if the Republicans were feeling particularly malevolent, it seems to me that they could even seize all of the missing senators' assets. These senators have fled the state to escape the jurisdiction of the Senate Sargent-at-Arms. There seems to me a rather delightful irony in them discovering that his jurisdiction still has an awful lot of bite.)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01445654608786890991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73454668645100559422011-02-18T09:11:45.288-06:002011-02-18T09:11:45.288-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01445654608786890991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50357555834330886432011-02-18T08:49:00.745-06:002011-02-18T08:49:00.745-06:00Does the Senate have to meet at the Capitol? Coul...Does the Senate have to meet at the Capitol? Could the Repubs go to where the Dems are and VERY quickly call the Senate into session? Now that would be really funny. The WI Senate meeting at some fleabag motel in IL.Crimsohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01618292072861640747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80586707389448560982011-02-18T07:22:15.347-06:002011-02-18T07:22:15.347-06:00Because they still need a quorum, which requires 2...Because they still need a quorum, which requires 20 people.<br /><br />I believe they only have 17 right now.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14436178562390102857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34068859706638522902011-02-18T02:06:00.501-06:002011-02-18T02:06:00.501-06:00Why doesn't one of the republicans just change...Why doesn't one of the republicans just change party affiliation (temporarily, of course) so there will be at least one democrat present?invention13https://www.blogger.com/profile/05022166393558213405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89376100935131929402011-02-18T01:36:37.100-06:002011-02-18T01:36:37.100-06:00Heh, Wikipedia refreshes my recollection, and it w...Heh, Wikipedia refreshes my recollection, and it was worth the effort:<br /><br />"[Doggett] first gained notoriety in 1979, as a member of the "Killer Bees" — a group of 12 Democratic state senators who opposed a plan to move the state's presidential primary to March 11. The intent was to give former governor John Connally a leg up on the 1980 Republican nomination. The Killer Bees wanted a closed primary. When this proposal was rejected, they walked out of the chamber and left the Senate two members short of a quorum. The bill was withdrawn five days later."<br /><br />Yeah, the John Connally Presidential Juggernaut, I remember it well.Beldarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13404583858244777905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15093073600723526652011-02-18T01:34:15.203-06:002011-02-18T01:34:15.203-06:00@ Fen: Yeah, I was at UT when the "Killer Bee...@ Fen: Yeah, I was at UT when the "Killer Bees" made their dash, led by "El Patron" Lloyd Doggett, the pasty white male who -- after his seat disappeared in the redistricting -- changed residence into a newly drawn district expected to be won by a Hispanic, and then steamrollered a female hispanic in the ensuing Democratic primary. He's some piece of work. But I can't remember what their boycott was over, frankly, and I can't believe it was over anything as consequential as redistricting.Beldarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13404583858244777905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8412189160355925962011-02-18T00:24:13.448-06:002011-02-18T00:24:13.448-06:00Call "Dog" the Bounty Hunter to get them...Call "Dog" the Bounty Hunter to get them back? Might work.Bartender Cabbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05623813045706584212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62234339519709142402011-02-18T00:07:44.260-06:002011-02-18T00:07:44.260-06:00but, but, but the Romans didn't have nuclear w...but, but, but the Romans didn't have nuclear weapons ;)<br /><br />Interesting during Nixon's '72 landslide and Reagan's '84 landslide Republicans couldn't take control of the House of Representatives ...<br /><br />carry onshilohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490952508600134457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8795834840560868602011-02-18T00:03:03.635-06:002011-02-18T00:03:03.635-06:00Anybody wanna bet it'll be a lot less than 14 ...<b><i>Anybody wanna bet it'll be a lot less than 14 after 2012?</i></b><br /><br />Logically, if any Dem in any state survived the low turnout 2010 midterm, the worst wave election for the Dems since Truman ~ one would think that Dem would be safe in 2012/2014 whatever.<br /><br />Especially since voter demo trends are all in the Dems favor ie the youth vote, minorities etc. and older Rep voters are passing on daily.<br /><br />Interesting generically Reps won the 2010 midterm by (5) million votes as (29) million 2008 Obama voters stayed home.<br /><br />><br /><br />2012 should be very interesting as America continues to self-destruct.<br /><br />><br /><br />As a reference one should look up the reasons behind the <i>Fall of the Roman Empire</i> ie<br /><br /><b><i>1. Christianity<br /><br />Over time, Church leaders became influential and took away power from the emperor. Christian beliefs conflicted with the working of empire.<br /><br />2. Barbarians and Vandals<br /><br />Rome embraced the barbarians but also lost territory and revenue to them, especially in Carthaginian Africa, which they lost to the Vandals.<br /><br />3. Decay<br /><br />ie lack of military discipline.<br /><br />4. Inflation<br /><br />By the time of Claudius II Gothicus (268-270 A.D.) the amount of silver in a supposedly 100% silver denarius was only .02%. This led to or was severe inflation, depending on how you define inflation.<br /><br />5. Lead<br /><br />The presence of lead in the drinking water leached in from the water pipes, from glazes, and food preparation could have contributed to heavy metal poisoning. Lead was associated with contraception and recognized as a deadly poison.<br /><br />6. Economic<br /><br />* Poor management,<br />* The dole (bread and circuses), and<br />* Hoarding.<br /><br />Also: Environmental change and decaying infrastructure.<br /><br />7. Division of the Empire<br /><br />The Roman Empire was split not just geographically, but culturally, with a Latin Empire and a Greek one, the latter of which may have survived because it had most of the population, a better military, more money, and better rule.<br /><br />8. Hoarding and Deficit<br /><br />Causes of the fall of Rome include economic decay through hoarding of bullion, barbarian looting of the treasury, and trade deficit.<br />~~~~~</i></b><br /><br />btw, this is my feel good post for February!<br /><br />take careshilohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490952508600134457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56459150282336710762011-02-17T23:41:53.099-06:002011-02-17T23:41:53.099-06:00Some tea party guy down there found one of them an...Some tea party guy down there found one of them and got video. (BigGovernment)PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50657164378357532142011-02-17T23:31:28.180-06:002011-02-17T23:31:28.180-06:00Actually, in two different legislative sessions in...<i>Actually, in two different legislative sessions in 2003 (the latter being a special session called specifically for redistricting), first the Texas House and then the Texas Senate saw the flight of Democrats to prevent a quorum -- House members to Oklahoma, then Senate members to New Mexico... So yeah, there's a pattern here: The Democratic Party is demonstrably anti-democratic.</i><br /><br />Happened in Texas much earlier than your examples - the "Killer Bees" in 1979.<br /><br />http://www.billhobby.com/bhobby-how-excerpt.htmFenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14675995696813927352011-02-17T23:27:06.149-06:002011-02-17T23:27:06.149-06:00Regretably Wisconsin does not have Cromwell's ...Regretably Wisconsin does not have Cromwell's new model armyRoger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59367932698556333252011-02-17T23:25:38.055-06:002011-02-17T23:25:38.055-06:00This contretemps raises a very salient issue in de...This contretemps raises a very salient issue in democracies--procedures (eg constitutions, rules of the legislative bodies etc, assume that participants play by the rules--when participants fail to play by those rules, their scorning of rules reduces democracy to nothing.<br /><br />that is the democrat legacy here--perhaps Wisconsin needs its Lord Protector--Oliver Cromwell, who dealt with the rump parliament--in the name of god go.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73343272644582456012011-02-17T23:18:22.839-06:002011-02-17T23:18:22.839-06:00I peer into the Wisconsin Constitution and see . ....I peer into the Wisconsin Constitution and see . . .<br /><br />Rats. Expulsion doesn't require a 2/3 vote of members meeting, but a 2/3 vote of all elected members.<br /><br />But . . . a majority constitutes a quorum for ordinary business. And the house "may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide."<br /><br />Which means, in principle, the Senate, which has a majority, which constitutes a quorum, could choose to amend the rules to impose serious penalties for failure to attend a quorum call. <br /><br />There may be rules to prevent such an amendment of the rules, but in most legislatures such rules require that a member invoke them . . . which would produce the quorum just as effectively, if the Rs were united. And "Courts have no jurisdiction to review legislative rules of proceeding".Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05138730966226244399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83969149678367568862011-02-17T23:14:07.650-06:002011-02-17T23:14:07.650-06:00What a a sorry bunch of scum sucking asswipes--the...<i>What a a sorry bunch of scum sucking asswipes--these douchebags have done the impossible--given democrats a bad name. </i><br /><br />Correct Translation: The behaviour of these gentlemen and ladies has shown that Democrats have problems dealing with the democratic process when things don't go their way.<br /><br />That's why they're a bunch of scum sucking asswipes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68861741614453172392011-02-17T23:13:04.214-06:002011-02-17T23:13:04.214-06:00My guess is the 14 senate democrats in wisconsin w...My guess is the 14 senate democrats in wisconsin will rewrite the definition of Phyrric Victory--it will be a phyrric defeat. But time will tell.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59985000870243036292011-02-17T23:09:32.964-06:002011-02-17T23:09:32.964-06:00Translation: I HATE Democrats with spines that won...<i>Translation: I HATE Democrats with spines that won't bend over and take it up the ass from a Republican.</i><br /><br />Well, they put out for the unions, they put out for George Soros, they put out for the newspapers....<br /><br />My guess is that we're just haggling about the price.Charlie Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586506407851173416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4363227714342930112011-02-17T23:08:43.847-06:002011-02-17T23:08:43.847-06:00Garage--seriously--what did the democrat controlle...Garage--seriously--what did the democrat controlled congress do to republicans? I think the issue is that republicans won--democrats can try to regain political power--but if you think the Wisconsin democratic senators are being valiant, then thats your privilege<br /><br />full disclosure--I honestly dont give a flying fuck what happens to wisconsin--but I think democrat actions do not reflect favorably on any political process. YMMVRoger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.com