tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8383047477439578488..comments2024-03-19T00:05:22.263-05:00Comments on Althouse: WWII "was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48792492676370035212016-05-29T20:36:26.036-05:002016-05-29T20:36:26.036-05:00You have to look for the ways in which he is criti...<i>You have to look for the ways in which he is criticizing other cultures. It's hidden in the high-flown abstraction.</i><br /><br />Or, perhaps Obama strains here to be that blank screen on which people project their own views. His speech reflected his worldview: naive, childish, uninformed and lacking historical context. I found his remarks repugnant.SukieTawdryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07219517365750894110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4721081782377240442016-05-29T17:00:08.906-05:002016-05-29T17:00:08.906-05:00"MayBee said...
"I read this as Obama te...<i>"MayBee said...<br />"I read this as Obama telling Christians to get off their high horse."<br /><br />David said...<br />I read it as something an undergraduate could say.</i><br /><br />I read it as inane tautology masquerading as profound thought. Saying that religions and societies tend to be poor at preventing idiocy by their radical elements is legit criticism. But failing to make distinctions between those societies and religions which have progressed out of medieval values and those which tolerate too much <i>regression</i> is drawing a false equivalency.Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33158790977403010142016-05-29T16:45:13.712-05:002016-05-29T16:45:13.712-05:00"I'm extracting that line for those who t...<i>"I'm extracting that line for those who think Obama failed to blame the aggressors in that war."</i><br /><br />I don't know, Professor... I still don't see any acknowledgement of the difference between aggressor and responder in that speech. On the contrary, I see a blurring of it. The "processing" seems to have processed out that point.Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7713335777692404902016-05-29T16:38:41.590-05:002016-05-29T16:38:41.590-05:00"And yet the war grew out of the same base in...<i>"And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints."</i><br /><br />Wait... no. The <i>conquest</i> rose from that. The <i>war</i> - at least for the West; I exclude the then Soviet Union from this - rose from a very well justified and honorable desire to not only respond to megalomaniacal totalitarian conquerors but also wipe such destructiveness off the face of the earth. <br /><br />Sure, the West was only 2 for 3; the strange bedfellowism that arose from the necessity of allying with the USSR negatively colors the war. Some pragmatism was necessary, distasteful as it was (and yes, it did result in pain and terrible decades for many countries... although picking a fight with the USSR would have been ruinous for the West, so containment was indeed the correct lesser-of-two-evils choice). But the other two cases have been wild successes: Free, open, prosperous, peaceful... none of that is a stretch to apply to either Germany or Japan.<br /><br />My point is that I'm tired of the worn out, old tropes that are applied to history. Nobody ever said that war was ever desirable, but for cryin' out loud, the differences between the West and the Axis powers are so profound they're fundamental, and simply cannot make the lumping in of their actions with Germany's/Japans meet any standard of logic. Do people condemn the surgery because cancer is bad? Or do they view it as necessary, even with all its negative consequences, because the intervention is necessary and done for good reasons?<br /><br />The conflict <i>started</i> from those desires. But it <i>grew</i> from people saying "No" to the conquerors.Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9413938493419566282016-05-29T14:19:52.679-05:002016-05-29T14:19:52.679-05:00"'The rest of the world has very differen...<i><b>"'The rest of the world has very different frame of reference to ourselves.'"</b><br /><br />"We really do not have to CARE, though. We are the big dog. They can hate us. We can simply remove all of our troops and let them suffer their consequences."</i><br /><br />We won't always be the big dog...in fact, within the lifetimes of many reading this blog today, we will be yesterday's big dog. <br /><br />Taking the attitude of not caring what the rest of the world thinks--which we do and long have--others <i>will</i> and <i>do</i> hate us, especially when our "not caring" takes the form of our assertion of force--political, economic, and military--against every country we see as an impediment to our goal of world domination, or from whom we wish to extract resources. No one hates us "for our freedoms," as one liar said and many nitwits believed; they hate us for being the bully of the world, and a sanctimonious one, at that.<br /><br />If we removed all our troops from everywhere in the world, most of the countries would breath more easily. We're not there to protect anyone or anything but our own interests, and to assert our authority. The ongoing catastrophe in the middle east is largely our own doing. <br /><br />There are dangers in the world, and bad actors, but the projection of force should always be the last choice, when all else has failed, yet it is our <i>default</i> strategy, our latter day substitution for diplomacy. <br /><br />Many might applaud and support our brutality as legitimate, the prerogative of the "big dog" to impose and maintain fear and obedience among those who might challenge our intent to maintain our world domination, but don't wrap it up in stale (and patently false) notions of "protecting freedom and justice throughout the world."Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54921627471428060542016-05-29T13:21:57.799-05:002016-05-29T13:21:57.799-05:00Re: Mark Caplan:
Fortunately the Japanese are too...Re: Mark Caplan:<br /><br /><i>Fortunately the Japanese are too polite to tell us what they really thought of Obama's sanctimonious "I'm so much wiser and more evolved than you dullards" proclamation</i>.<br /><br />Reaction from the Japanese was <a href="http://www.sankei.com/world/news/160529/wor1605290031-n1.html" rel="nofollow">positive</a>. Some of the hibakusha (the victims of the atom bomb) wanted more, obviously, and US veterans were not thrilled, but that is only to be expected. The Japanese have laughed at Obama plenty for some of the goofy stuff he does, but I haven't seen much mockery this time.<br /><br />Also, however goofy Obama may be, I think Japanese would vastly prefer him to Trump, given that Trump's platform vis-a-vis Japan is basically (1) make them pay for US military protection and (2) trade war. Both of these are, in many ways, <i>evolutionary</i> from the Obama era, rather than revolutionary. Under Obama, the US has encouraged Japan to strengthen its military in recent years, and the US government has not been especially welcoming towards Japanese enterprises, whatever <i>words</i> they may mouth. But articulating these things explicitly as policy is new and shocking.Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60277039041925749232016-05-29T10:09:15.124-05:002016-05-29T10:09:15.124-05:00Fortunately the Japanese are too polite to tell us...Fortunately the Japanese are too polite to tell us what they really thought of Obama's sanctimonious "I'm so much wiser and more evolved than you dullards" proclamation.Mark Caplanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15157338755022593966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69225728180934097512016-05-29T08:16:51.065-05:002016-05-29T08:16:51.065-05:00Jason: "Historically ignorant shirt birds, ev...Jason: "Historically ignorant shirt birds, every one of them"<br /><br /> Precisely. You think the anointed one has read "Helmet for My Pillow", With the Old Breed", or "Goodbye Darkness"? I find it unlikely. He's an ignoramous. I've also never grasped the moral distinction between being killed in a firestorm caused by 1000 B-29s and being killed by a nuclear fireball.gandersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509861132672952113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14760201516685543842016-05-29T01:43:17.710-05:002016-05-29T01:43:17.710-05:00I heard what he said as he has said before that al...I heard what he said as he has said before that all religions have killed innocent people in the name of their religion but he had to go back 1000 years to find his Christian example and even then neglected the muslim provocations at that time period.duncehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03577890164611803826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86861774329791372182016-05-29T01:31:16.103-05:002016-05-29T01:31:16.103-05:00"After the war, Speer said that if the allies..."After the war, Speer said that if the allies had concentrated on bombing the factories that produced ball bearings the war would have been finished in weeks......."<br /><br />The US did bomb ball bearing factories and it had limited impact. Post war analysis shows that the entire bombing campaign in Europe was largely a waste of lives and material. One major criticism was the failure to bomb power stations. <br /><br />(Close air support, however, proved to be incredibly effective.)<br /><br />Interestingly, the post war analysis of the bombing of Japan came to the opposite conclusion; that it had a huge impact, though without a defacto naval blockade, it wouldn't have been sufficient.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71684122033496708702016-05-28T22:53:01.284-05:002016-05-28T22:53:01.284-05:00well they didn't help, but the depression empo...well they didn't help, but the depression empowered the cherry blossom, think al queda on steroids, and hence they took over the government, the naval treaty enabled their rapid advance, think of it, like the iran deal of the 20s,narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72572435327161002152016-05-28T22:20:14.690-05:002016-05-28T22:20:14.690-05:00"Yes, that is discussed in the book. I agree...."Yes, that is discussed in the book. I agree. Also the 1924 exclusion laws were hated and turned them against us as well"<br /><br />Yeah, Pearl Harbor was all our fault. If only we'd let in more immigrants we wouldn't have forced the Japanese warlords to Kill 2,000 Americans in a sneak attack.<br /><br />mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culparcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36745198299837469342016-05-28T20:58:28.693-05:002016-05-28T20:58:28.693-05:00not a light read, but it is illuminating, just lik...not a light read, but it is illuminating, just like would the revolution have come to pass if<br />Alexander 111 hadn't passed away, nearly a quarter century earlier,<br /><br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Romanovs-1613-1918-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/0307266524/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25035620124177039362016-05-28T20:49:56.358-05:002016-05-28T20:49:56.358-05:00No Stalin was a more ruthless czar, like Ivan the ...No Stalin was a more ruthless czar, like Ivan the Terrible, who unleashed the oprichniki, the first secret police, of course lenin had promised the nationalities self determination, surprise, he was lucky with his choice of rival, kanaris played on his paranoia, tricking him into purging his top army staff, but they returned the favor, by having the german army liquidate likely allies,narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80828325140506481342016-05-28T20:43:30.770-05:002016-05-28T20:43:30.770-05:00casualties were reasonable for a counterinsurgency...casualties were reasonable for a counterinsurgency campaign,<br /><br />http://www.philippineamericanwar.webs.com/<br /><br />a modern version of the 1931 incidents is imagine if uteibi had defeated the national guard or ubl had seized power in 1990, the cherryblossom society as a proxy for the ikwan,narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53816777511181709622016-05-28T20:41:52.589-05:002016-05-28T20:41:52.589-05:00"And yet the war grew out of the same base in..."And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints."<br /><br />I think he missed the problem of bad science which led to eugenics (is that <i>Buck v Bell</i> or something the other way around) and the belief on the part of at least the Germans that there were more deserving races. We should not hide that. It is important.<br /><br />And up stream is mentioned Tojo and Hitler. What about Stalin? He lucked out and died in his bed because we was lucky enough to be attacked by Hitler. There is too much of Godwin's Law being demonstrated. The <i>New York Times</i> should be careful given its role, under the Pulitzer Prize Winning Reporter Walter Duranty.<br /><br />The bomb? I would do it today in a like situation.<br /><br />Regards — CliffC R Kriegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10563658418464959198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69124720366576166512016-05-28T20:39:44.384-05:002016-05-28T20:39:44.384-05:00"mahan saw sea power as an alternative to sta..."mahan saw sea power as an alternative to standing armies in asia,"<br /><br />Yes, I've got his book and have read it.Michael Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127450762129879267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15238049050824332452016-05-28T20:35:01.021-05:002016-05-28T20:35:01.021-05:00the phillipines were low hanging fruit, in a few y...the phillipines were low hanging fruit, in a few years, the kaiser would likely have made a play for them, ironically mahan saw sea power as an alternative to standing armies in asia,narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52760324894001308242016-05-28T18:59:03.442-05:002016-05-28T18:59:03.442-05:00This is all water under the bridge of course, but ...This is all water under the bridge of course, but its interesting how much hinged on a single seemingly minor decision about an obscure Spanish colony. Dewey sailing into Manila bay or moreso McKinley praying one night in 1898 effectively decreed half a world war forty-three years later, and the fates of hundreds of millions and the modern condition of billions. Scary thought.buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7893738687160470902016-05-28T18:48:10.519-05:002016-05-28T18:48:10.519-05:00The Americans were widely loved in general, with s...The Americans were widely loved in general, with some exceptions (like one side of our family, in spite of their rule making the family fortune). However, this does not in itself justify holding the place. It was a useless policy that was reversed within ten years, among other things stopping the building of military infrastructure, which is one big reason so much was obsolete in 1941. The next 25 years were spent trying to figure out the best way to leave, while spending as little as possible, unfortunately coming under the influence of Filipino politicians who knew how to keep the game going for their own benefit. Manuel Quezon is the man most responsible for the fact that the US was still there in 1941.<br /><br />In the meantime the US had an Asiatic Fleet, a naval base, and the Pacific fleet had a war plan to protect it. The Japanese saw a base from which all their trade could be interdicted. <br />This was a dangerous situation, created without thought and sustained by irresponsibility. There was no US interest that was served by making an enemy of Japan. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67911789034566069022016-05-28T18:35:52.684-05:002016-05-28T18:35:52.684-05:00Amadeus 48 captures his essence. Has there ever b...Amadeus 48 captures his essence. Has there ever been a leader with a more pedestrian IQ who's been hailed as a genius? A complete intellectual fraud.Fabihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17991749875348408368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86089385992619538522016-05-28T18:33:20.134-05:002016-05-28T18:33:20.134-05:00"McKinleys overnight decision created a spher..."McKinleys overnight decision created a sphere of influence problem that didn't have to be."<br /><br />I don't know. That was the era of expansion and "Manifest Destiny." Taft was widely loved when he was governor general.<br /><br />I agree it was a thorn in Japan;s side and I also agree the Naval Treaty was another irritation but it allowed Japan near equality and allowed them to build ships as fast as they could. Two of the big aircraft carriers were battle cruiser hulls.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Sword-Untold-Battle-Midway/dp/1574889249" rel="nofollow"> "Shattered Sword" is a good book about Midway from the Japanese POV. </a>Michael Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127450762129879267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23562461626324061752016-05-28T18:27:35.684-05:002016-05-28T18:27:35.684-05:00Fernandinande wrote:
"Load of drivel."
...Fernandinande wrote:<br /><br /><i>"Load of drivel."</i><br /><br />To which I will tweak to,<br /><br />Obama, Lord of Drivel. <br /><br />That is a keeper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48662175895165615882016-05-28T17:34:42.592-05:002016-05-28T17:34:42.592-05:00Morally, there wasn't a dime's worth of di...Morally, there wasn't a dime's worth of difference between Tojo and Hitler. In fact, just based on a body count, the Japanese were far worse. <br /><br />Yet, we get "ambiguous" speech by Obama in Hiroshima. About how some "tribes" were out for conquest. <br /><br />I await his trip to Dresden. rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3108555864071907912016-05-28T17:18:24.242-05:002016-05-28T17:18:24.242-05:00Obama purposely spouted mush designed to blur the ...Obama purposely spouted mush designed to blur the distinctions between the Allies and the Axis, because he doesn't relate at all to the Allies and the good guys. He sees them as the Colonialists.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com