tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post749535575753705815..comments2024-03-28T20:36:32.762-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Solidary with Palestine" — a banner at the anti-war march today in Madison.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger145125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46651744371623318782012-02-17T06:16:01.590-06:002012-02-17T06:16:01.590-06:00The use of banner with stand comes in use for diff...The use of <a href="http://www.easysignsinc.com/banner-stands.html" rel="nofollow">banner with stand</a> comes in use for different purpose.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16368354175385215407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74488912412264131492011-10-17T14:40:05.732-05:002011-10-17T14:40:05.732-05:00Aridog said...
“Uganda! Please. Would you take a...Aridog said...<br /><br />“Uganda! Please. Would you take a home in Uganda? Peaceful hasn't been the deal there. Nevermind the native people you'd apparently displace there, eh?”<br /><br />I’m not familiar with the details of the arrangement, I’m only stating it was offered as an option prior to the Balfour Declaration being drafted which was done without the input of the non-Jewish people in Palestine. Additionally, I wonder why a Jewish homeland for the European Jews wasn’t proposed in Europe following World War II.<br /><br />“Oh, You mean "Peace" like we've just sent 100+ U.S. Special Force personnel to help quell? ... a conflagration that spreads over 4 or more adjacent countries?”<br /><br />I guess if the people of Uganda had the same level of influence in the U.S. as Israel has, we may have engaged in that region earlier. Or, if there were large oil reserves in the part of the world, I’m sure we would have been involved much sooner.<br /><br />“The rest of discussing Israel is not worth our time, what with your vague mapping of "Palestine" to include or not include, as your mood requires, Trans-Jordan.”<br /><br />I suggest you read Article 25 of the San Remo Conference which addresses the Transjordan Memorandum. That article concerns the March 1921 arrangement between Winston Churchill and as-Sharif Abdullah bin al-Husayn regarding the removal of Transjordan from the original territory of the Palestine Mandate along with the condition that provisions regarding a Jewish homeland in the future Palestine (i.e., west of the Jordan River)mandate would not apply in Transjordan.<br /><br />“I'll start trying to answer some of your questions when you address the ones I've posed much earlier.”<br /><br />As far as your question as to what other countries established by the French and British Mandates, with names that vary but territories that stayed the same, do not have to give up territory inside of their mandate borders, I already stated that none of those countries had populations that were being displaced by outside immigration as was the case in Palestine. The immigration caused by the Zionist movement resulted in the conflict and revolts in Palestine.<br /><br />As to your question as to why Israel is expected to negotiate new borders, actually the position of the U.S. and the Palestinian National Authority is the borders should return to the pre-1967 War borders as a condition for a peaceful settlement of the issue. Borders have always been included as part of peace negotiations throughout the centuries.<br /><br />As far as your question as to whether we can go back to 1920 and the original San Remo Accords since that would eliminate Jordan, aka Trans-Jordan, which was created by the 1922 Amendments to the San Remo Accord, again, read Article 25 of the San Remo Conference which addresses the Transjordan Memorandum. Here’s an article about the Transjordan Memorandum:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transjordan_memorandum<br /><br />Since Transjordan was exempted from provisions regarding the establishment of a Jewish homeland, the provisions of the mandate only applied to that portion of the territory west of Transjordan, i.e., Palestine. So going back to the San Remo Conference wouldn’t change the situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85427443003574798392011-10-17T13:18:18.859-05:002011-10-17T13:18:18.859-05:0036fsfiend said:
... Zionist congress had decline...36fsfiend said:<br /><br /><i>... Zionist congress had decline an offer by the British to establish a homeland in Uganda ...</i><br /><br />Uganda! Please. Would <i>you</i> take a home in Uganda? Peaceful hasn't been the deal there. Nevermind the native people you'd apparently displace there, eh?<br /><br />Oh, You mean "Peace" like we've just sent 100+ U.S. Special Force personnel to help quell? ... a conflagration that spreads over 4 or more adjacent countries? <br /><br />The rest of discussing Israel is not worth our time, what with your vague mapping of "Palestine" to include or not include, as your mood requires, Trans-Jordan.<br /><br />I'll start trrying to answer some of your questions when address the ones I've posed much earlier.<br /><br />KthnxbaiAridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36238280527105580802011-10-17T11:03:06.320-05:002011-10-17T11:03:06.320-05:00Paddy O said...
“Very few ethnic cleansings begin...Paddy O said...<br /><br />“Very few ethnic cleansings begin, and are continued, by gathered armies by the ethnicity involved.”<br /><br />What are you implying?<br /><br />“That's another thing I don't get about the Palestinians being idealized by the otherwise pro-peace movements. These are a people who have waged almost constant war against Israel. Had they not waged war, with the support of Israel's neighbors, the 1948 borders would still be in place. Wiping Israel off the map entirely is a pretty violent goal, and that's precisely the goal the surrounding Arab nations have.”<br /><br />Given the revolts of 1936-1939 and the fact the U.N. partition plan was not accepted by the Arab leadership in and out of Palestine, what was the expectations? Israel seemed prepared for conflict as demonstrated by its success. That region has been the site of conflict for centuries.<br /><br />“They have been steeped in violence from the very beginning, and while their situation is often troubling in instances, the reality is that it wasn't ethnic cleansing at all, but response to continual violence. The Palestinians have not been a passive victim, but an active combatant.”<br /><br />Some historians claim the Nakba was ethnic cleansing, not all, as the term has been deleted from Arab children's textbooks by order of Israel's education ministry:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/22/israel-remove-nakba-from-textbooks<br /><br />“If you share a home with someone and they threaten to kill you and your family, you won't exactly be kind in letting them move back into the house after they've called their friends, tried to force you out, but you were able to stay put.”<br /><br />If the Zionist movement hadn't existed, if the non-Jewish people of Palestine had more participation in the development of the Balfour Declaration, which was drafted after the Zionist congress had decline an offer by the British to establish a homeland in Uganda, would this conflict today exist?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17922580807796461392011-10-17T10:51:58.608-05:002011-10-17T10:51:58.608-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29734775498861903702011-10-17T09:02:50.811-05:002011-10-17T09:02:50.811-05:00"The expulsion of the Palestinians has since ..."The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing."<br /><br />Very few ethnic cleansings begin, and are continued, by gathered armies by the ethnicity involved. <br /><br />That's another thing I don't get about the Palestinians being idealized by the otherwise pro-peace movements. These are a people who have waged almost constant war against Israel. Had they not waged war, with the support of Israel's neighbors, the 1948 borders would still be in place. Wiping Israel off the map entirely is a pretty violent goal, and that's precisely the goal the surrounding Arab nations have. <br /><br />They have been steeped in violence from the very beginning, and while their situation is often troubling in instances, the reality is that it wasn't ethnic cleansing at all, but response to continual violence. The Palestinians have not been a passive victim, but an active combatant. <br /><br />If you share a home with someone and they threaten to kill you and your family, you won't exactly be kind in letting them move back into the house after they've called their friends, tried to force you out, but you were able to stay put.Paddy Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442537362540160512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44691652230310767492011-10-17T00:57:34.213-05:002011-10-17T00:57:34.213-05:00edwardroyce said...
“And .... you are wrong.
Why...edwardroyce said...<br /><br />“And .... you are wrong.<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />1. Because those Arabs left of their own accord in anticipation of a victory by Arab armies ... that never happened.<br /><br />2. Israel is under no obligation to give citizenship or residency to a group of murderous jackals who have proven themselves as untrustworthy.”<br /><br />I guess you are referring to the Nakba during which approximately 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and the Civil War that preceded it.<br /><br />Factors involved in the flight include the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes, the collapse in Palestinian leadership, an unwillingness to live under Jewish control, Jewish military advances and fears of massacre after Deir Yassin, which caused many to leave out of panic. Later in the war, Palestinians were expelled as part of Plan Dalet. A series of laws passed by the first Israeli government prevented the refugees from returning to their homes or claiming their property. The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82146413779731812792011-10-17T00:31:41.354-05:002011-10-17T00:31:41.354-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57972434199512097352011-10-17T00:21:09.515-05:002011-10-17T00:21:09.515-05:00edwardroyce said...
“Why not. I could fix it all ...edwardroyce said...<br /><br />“Why not. I could fix it all in a single day.<br /><br /> 1. There are no such thing as a "Palestinian". It's just a made up term. Aka Arab is an Arab is an Arab.<br /><br /> 2. Allow Israel to annex the Gaza Strip and forcibly evacuate all Arabs living there.<br /><br /> 3. Allow Israel to annex the West Bank and forcibly evacuate all Arabs living there.<br /><br /> 4. Relocate all Arabs that used to live in the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan.<br /><br /> 5. If the Arabs living in the West Bank or Gaza object, drop a couple hundred thousand pounds of incendiary bombs until they run away.<br /><br /> 6. Problems solved.”<br /><br />During the British Mandate of Palestine, the term "Palestinian" was used to refer to all people residing there, regardless of religion or ethnicity, and those granted citizenship by the Mandatory authorities were granted "Palestinian citizenship"<br /><br />Your attitude towards those people is the same by many throughout history which has contributed to the conflict in that region. Remember, the Jewish immigrations, or Aliyahtos, to Palestine contributed to conflict and revolts and led to the various partition plans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72137400040724706292011-10-16T23:59:41.496-05:002011-10-16T23:59:41.496-05:00@ 36fsfiend
"No. It was stated up thread the...@ 36fsfiend<br /><br />"No. It was stated up thread the Palestinians have no historic right to the land and should be in Jordan. I contend they have as much right to live in the land formally called Palestine as the Jews."<br /><br />And .... you are wrong.<br /><br />Why?<br /><br />1. Because those Arabs left of their own accord in anticipation of a victory by Arab armies ... that never happened.<br /><br />2. Israel is under no obligation to give citizenship or residency to a group of murderous jackals who have proven themselves as untrustworthy.<br /><br />So. Wrong again. Not much surprise there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77243974663417306792011-10-16T23:56:47.289-05:002011-10-16T23:56:47.289-05:00@ 36fsfiend
"Maybe they should put you in ch...@ 36fsfiend<br /><br />"Maybe they should put you in charge of the peace negotiations then if it's such a simple matter."<br /><br />Why not. I could fix it all in a single day.<br /><br />1. There are no such thing as a "Palestinian". It's just a made up term. Aka Arab is an Arab is an Arab.<br /><br />2. Allow Israel to annex the Gaza Strip and forcibly evacuate all Arabs living there.<br /><br />3. Allow Israel to annex the West Bank and forcibly evacuate all Arabs living there.<br /><br />4. Relocate all Arabs that used to live in the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan.<br /><br />5. If the Arabs living in the West Bank or Gaza object, drop a couple hundred thousand pounds of incendiary bombs until they run away.<br /><br />6. Problems solved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82705346343029479382011-10-16T21:06:16.246-05:002011-10-16T21:06:16.246-05:00Aridog said...
“36fsfiend ... interesting what we...Aridog said...<br /><br />“36fsfiend ... interesting what website you take an unattributed map out of context from. Masada2000.org ... really?”<br /><br />Can you provide a source document for your depiction of the British Mandate?<br /><br />“You didn't answer my questions regarding the other nations incorporated in the French and British Mandates. I'll add another ... how many of those peoples signed off on the San Remo Resolution, and their assigned borders, following defeat of the Ottomans?”<br /><br />What do those other nations have to do with the Palestinian situation? Were there populations in those other regions that were being displaced by outside immigration as was the case in Palestine?<br /><br />Regarding the map you linked to, you used the terms "Jewish Palestine" and “Arab Palestine” and indicated they were legally established. I looked over the text of the San Remo Conference at the link below, which established the British Mandate, and while I see references to the term “Palestine”, I see no references to a “Jewish Palestine” or an “Arab Palestine.”<br /><br />http://www.gwpda.org/1918p/sanremo.html<br /><br />As I understand it, the British, Italian and French governments rejected early drafts of the mandate because it contained the passage which read “Recognizing, moreover, the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and the claim which this gives them to reconstitute it their national home…”<br /><br />The Palestine Committee recommended the reference to “the claim” be omitted from the text of the mandate. Although the Allies noted the historical connection of the Jews to Palestine in the Treaty of Sèvres, they did not recognize any legal claim. Additionally, they felt that whatever might be done for the Jewish people was based entirely on sentimental grounds. They believed all that was necessary was to make room for the Zionists in Palestine but not turn the whole country into a Jewish homeland.<br /><br />Likewise, the original draft of the Balfour Declaration of 1917 stated “that Palestine should be reconstituted as the National Home of the Jewish people.” However, due to opposition to the Zionist program within the British Cabinet, the final version of the declaration stated “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” In other words, the intent was not to turn all of Palestine into a Jewish state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74094499812144509402011-10-16T20:59:41.799-05:002011-10-16T20:59:41.799-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83511202360065831022011-10-16T20:07:46.970-05:002011-10-16T20:07:46.970-05:0036fsfiend ... interesting what website you take an...36fsfiend ... interesting what website you take an unattributed map out of context from. Masada2000.org ... really? <br /><br />You didn't answer my questions regarding the other nations incorporated in the French and British Mandates. I'll add another ... how many of those peoples signed off on the San Remo Resolution, and their assigned borders, following defeat of the Ottomans?Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64308842633074673772011-10-16T15:11:22.350-05:002011-10-16T15:11:22.350-05:00@Ritmo, I had been under the impression you could ...@Ritmo, I had been under the impression you could recognize sarcasm when you saw it.<br /><br />I am utterly desolated to learn that you cannot.Big Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831645119853118904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73775254557542468212011-10-16T13:53:01.608-05:002011-10-16T13:53:01.608-05:00Aridog said...
"This is so tiring, repeatedl...Aridog said...<br /><br />"This is so tiring, repeatedly. Here's the 1946 Jewish Palestine ... note that the territory encompassed is the same as that today, post 1967 lines in fact. And, it is called, legally, "Jewish Palestine." Today's Jordan was called "Arab Palestine"."<br /><br />I guess that depends on which depiction of the area you look at:<br /><br />http://www.masada2000.org/transj.gif<br /><br />When you say it was legally called "Jewish Palestine" what was the legal document that stipulated that?<br /><br />The resolution that was drafted at the San Remo conference was not signed by any of the parties involved. The Balfour Declaration was between the British the Zionists and was not supported by the Arabs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76085969720763461092011-10-16T13:33:10.648-05:002011-10-16T13:33:10.648-05:00edwardroyce said...
"@everyone: This stuff i...edwardroyce said...<br /><br />"@everyone: This stuff isn't all that difficult. It's just history. If you can't get a decent grasp on the basics of the history of the region then really. Don't waste everyone's time."<br /><br />Maybe they should put you in charge of the peace negotiations then if it's such a simple matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-12400218225920508462011-10-16T13:25:30.547-05:002011-10-16T13:25:30.547-05:00edwardroyce said...
"It is painfully obvious...edwardroyce said...<br /><br />"It is painfully obvious you're trying to make some sort of point that Israel has no historical basis."<br /><br />No. It was stated up thread the Palestinians have no historic right to the land and should be in Jordan. I contend they have as much right to live in the land formally called Palestine as the Jews.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35474924023218241462011-10-16T11:59:23.441-05:002011-10-16T11:59:23.441-05:00Found at barcepundit:
Death penalty in palestine
h...Found at barcepundit:<br />Death penalty in palestine<br />http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-10/13/c_131190008.htmJose_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09719969512996039279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89001634486729286322011-10-16T10:45:38.703-05:002011-10-16T10:45:38.703-05:00There's also the curious almost certain fact t...There's also the curious almost certain fact that if Israel was a muslim nation doing the exact same things to the Palestinians, absolutely no one would care about the Palestinians. <br /><br />Make of that what you will.Paddy Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442537362540160512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13286658478818122682011-10-16T10:42:59.008-05:002011-10-16T10:42:59.008-05:00Sumeria (sic) - lol.Sumeria (sic) - lol.Ritmo Re-Animatedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15912086218531198114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59171276761752435562011-10-16T10:26:30.636-05:002011-10-16T10:26:30.636-05:00edwardroyce said ...
@everyone: This stuff isn...edwardroyce said ...<br /><br /><i>@everyone: This stuff isn't all that difficult. It's just history. If you can't get a decent grasp on the basics of the history of the region then really. Don't waste everyone's time.</i><br /><br />Agreed. So let me add <a href="http://www.mideastweb.org/mandate.htm" rel="nofollow">The entire San Remo Amendment of 1922</a>. The top is introductory analysis, read down to the bottom for the entire original amended mandate.Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63232601204245148542011-10-16T10:08:43.404-05:002011-10-16T10:08:43.404-05:00In his recent speech Benjamin Netanyahu said, &quo...In <a href="http://www.aish.com/jw/me/Netanyahus_Speech_at_the_UN.html" rel="nofollow">his recent speech</a> Benjamin Netanyahu said, "In my office in Jerusalem, there’s a — there’s an ancient seal. It’s a signet ring of a Jewish official from the time of the Bible. The seal was found right next to the Western Wall, and it dates back 2,700 years, to the time of King Hezekiah. Now, there’s a name of the Jewish official inscribed on the ring in Hebrew. His name was Netanyahu. That’s my last name. My first name, Benjamin, dates back a thousand years earlier to Benjamin — Binyamin — the son of Jacob, who was also known as Israel. Jacob and his 12 sons roamed these same hills of Judea and Sumeria 4,000 years ago, and there’s been a continuous Jewish presence in the land ever since."Paddy Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442537362540160512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73886891473504198352011-10-16T10:04:11.687-05:002011-10-16T10:04:11.687-05:00Wow Mike. Way to show you've got the intellect...Wow Mike. Way to show you've got the intellectual upper hand there. Google shows me that UW actually, lo and behold, <i>does</i> - unsurprisingly - abide by the same 1st amendment standards regarding freedom of religion as everyone else, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1RNNN_enUS355US355&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=madison+hillel" rel="nofollow">and that only took 0.25 seconds</a>. But maybe you're either as suspicious of that Jewish invention as C-Fudd is or just hate the idea of non-proprietary information being freely available. <br /><br />It's been a while, Mike. Glad to see you continuing to fight the good fight. Just as fatuously as before, but it's still a good fight, innit it? <br /><br />Whatever the cause, propagandists everywhere would be proud to know you've got their back.Ritmo Re-Animatedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15912086218531198114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68378176574053374362011-10-16T09:59:32.925-05:002011-10-16T09:59:32.925-05:00"The Arabs were allies in WWI, most were alli..."The Arabs were allies in WWI, most were allies in WWII, and except for Nasser era dalliances and as a reaction to the US "tilt" to Israel - the Islamic nations, including the Arabs were staunchly anti-communist and more allied with the West than the Soviets."<br /><br />Safer bet than the sun rising in the east - *against* C-fudd ever stating a fact.<br /><br /><br />"sigh"<br /><br />You weren't actually expecting Fudd to say anything that is actually true, especially about da Jooooooos, were you? It's not like we haven't known for decades about the Mufti's alliance with Hitler. Next up - how al Qaeda valiantly tried to prevent Israel from perpetrating 9/11.Gary Rosenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00338791760274457388noreply@blogger.com