tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post727754091649490971..comments2024-03-28T03:36:23.587-05:00Comments on Althouse: The video that helped put a man in prison for 22 years for running a stop sign.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35672167045208105612008-12-02T15:29:00.000-06:002008-12-02T15:29:00.000-06:00This is fairly well-known joke on the subject of r...This is fairly well-known joke on the subject of red-light running, which certainly belongs in this discussion:<BR/><BR/><I><A HREF="http://www.cheerfulhearthumor.com/dumbanddumber/dumb1.htm" REL="nofollow">My Brother Does It All the Time</A><BR/><BR/>There are these two guys driving a car. When the guy driving blows right through the red light.<BR/><BR/>"Man, you just ran that red light!" the passenger said.<BR/><BR/>" Don't worry, my brother does it all the time," said the driver.<BR/><BR/>Well, they continue to drive when the guy went flying through another stop light. "You ran ANOTHER stop light. You are going to get us killed!!!" exclaimed the passenger.<BR/><BR/>"Don't worry, my brother does it all the time, the driver said.<BR/><BR/>After a while they came to a green light when the guy stopped.<BR/><BR/>"Why are you stopping?"<BR/><BR/>The driver turned around and said, "Because my brother might be coming!"<BR/><BR/></I>Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07560562004881756340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42613911455969182962008-12-01T14:24:00.000-06:002008-12-01T14:24:00.000-06:00Timothy McVeigh was executed for having no license...Timothy McVeigh was executed for having no license plates on his car, right?Todd Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03392585847337673771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87665872362845067702008-11-30T21:04:00.000-06:002008-11-30T21:04:00.000-06:00f we are talking about justice, what difference do...f we are talking about justice, what difference does it make who was the victim and what impact this would have on his family. We should not be judging the crime based on emotional outbursts--that's how wrongful convictions happen (not the case here, just wrong sentence). At issue is what the crime is--the actions of the perpetrator and the immediate circumstances surrounding the events. The rest is complete BS.<BR/><BR/>Have you noticed how every drive-by victim is always "a good boy" (at least for male teens), irrespectively of his membership in a gang, criminal record or much else that may well point to him being anything but a "good boy".<BR/><BR/>Of course, most of the perp's families sing the same tune. Everything is always unexpected and unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>It's garbage. Judge the crime based on what actually happened and sentence on the actions. Family impact should go to a civil jury, not a criminal one.ShadowFoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06043933642833087018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33715982472468922402008-11-30T20:39:00.000-06:002008-11-30T20:39:00.000-06:00Catharine - Whether or not the boy would be more o...<I>Catharine - Whether or not the boy would be more or less dead is irrelevant. Whether or not the man's actions were more or less irresponsible and more or less likely to lead to someone else's death is relevant.</I><BR/><BR/>The purpose of this comment is to acknowledge the missing of that one, which is a pity, because that one pretty much says it all without much, if any, more required.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-149258765928078222008-11-30T19:54:00.000-06:002008-11-30T19:54:00.000-06:00Joe: If you see her comments above, Prof. Althouse...Joe: If you see her comments above, Prof. Althouse did not know it was the drunk driver's fourth offense, nor did the article linked mention that.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24803875845810991222008-11-30T19:49:00.000-06:002008-11-30T19:49:00.000-06:00Recently, Ann wonders why pirates are running ramp...Recently, Ann wonders why pirates are running rampant in the Indian Ocean. Now she gasps as a drunk driver who killed someone while evading police gets "22 years for running a stop sign."<BR/><BR/>I think that's your answer--the bleeding heart liberal repulsion of proportional punishment; no matter what horrible thing someone has done, they are a child inside and must be given mercy or some bullshit like that. (I'm all for giving mercy for the first offense, but certainly not the fourth.)Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91897579132500900232008-11-30T19:45:00.000-06:002008-11-30T19:45:00.000-06:00The man is lucky, I would have had him executed.The man is lucky, I would have had him executed.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3400853830591484382008-11-30T19:43:00.000-06:002008-11-30T19:43:00.000-06:00I'm just wondering how many ways there are of taki...<I>I'm just wondering how many ways there are of taking a young man's life, while doing something illegal, which are not worth 22 years in prison.</I><BR/><BR/>That is the excellent and pertinent question, cobaltbob. Answers would be illuminating in forwarding the debate over how our legal system ought proceed into the future.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72240113943894311992008-11-30T19:15:00.000-06:002008-11-30T19:15:00.000-06:00That is the excellent and pertinent question, coba...That is the excellent and pertinent question, cobaltbob.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81018472359466746662008-11-30T18:16:00.000-06:002008-11-30T18:16:00.000-06:00I'm just wondering how many ways there are of taki...I'm just wondering how many ways there are of taking a young man's life, while doing something illegal, which are not worth 22 years in prison.<BR/><BR/>I probably wouldn't be wondering but the title to the post was such a gross distortion of what I perceive to be the facts (apparently I am not alone), and so I am now second-guessing myself and wondering if there was something Ann meant to say but conveyed so poorly by leading with the title she chose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40264752437099378202008-11-30T15:44:00.000-06:002008-11-30T15:44:00.000-06:00He did not go to prison for 22 years for running a...He did not go to prison for 22 years for running a stop sign. He went to prison for what happened after he ran the stop sign.Don Singletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991386635454877389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47956763674954807172008-11-30T15:40:00.000-06:002008-11-30T15:40:00.000-06:00tests have shown that people on cell phones are mo...<I>tests have shown that people on cell phones are more inattentive than slightly tipsy ones.</I><BR/><BR/>This is the reason for the use of the analogy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17890542752279425932008-11-30T14:54:00.000-06:002008-11-30T14:54:00.000-06:00It's illegal to talk on the cell phone in town (in...It's illegal to talk on the cell phone in town (in this case "town" is Albuquerque) and I wouldn't want to. When there is traffic a person's mind needs to be on traffic. I long ago taught the kids to be quiet when there is traffic and they know they won't get the radio on until we get on the freeway out of town. And I *do* use my cell phone outside of town if there are few other cars. Even then, though, I don't dial it.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44786310642322583422008-11-30T14:25:00.000-06:002008-11-30T14:25:00.000-06:00Oh and Catherine, tests have shown that people on ...Oh and Catherine, tests have shown that people on cell phones are more inattentive than slightly tipsy ones.Oligonicellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656818633822942314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26899929962609427832008-11-30T14:24:00.000-06:002008-11-30T14:24:00.000-06:00Catherine -- Yes. You want to talk on the damned ...Catherine -- <BR/><BR/>Yes. You want to talk on the damned phone, do it at home. Driving a one ton missile traveling at lethal speeds is not the place. Do you actually think endangering other people is worth a phone call? <BR/><BR/>You get behind the wheel of a guided missile, you'd better be guiding.Oligonicellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656818633822942314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2457551305751359322008-11-30T13:53:00.000-06:002008-11-30T13:53:00.000-06:00I didn't see the bit about running from the police...I didn't see the bit about running from the police, but the *drunk* part of it is in the first sentence.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37290211957613995562008-11-30T13:52:00.000-06:002008-11-30T13:52:00.000-06:00Running a stop sign!Bull, Ann.Don't be so purposel...Running a stop sign!<BR/><BR/>Bull, Ann.<BR/><BR/>Don't be so purposely misleading.<BR/><BR/>The man got 22 years for killing a person while driving drunk. The stop sign is irrelevant.<BR/><BR/>Are you trying to make us think that any person who might run a stop sign (and how many of us never have gone through a light or not noticed a sign or did something dangerous like that accidentally) could end up in prison for 22 years? What if someone has a heart attack or stroke or epilepsy they didn't know about?<BR/><BR/>Driving drunk is a choice, an active choice, and I've got no sympathy for someone who choses to get behind the wheel of a car while drunk and who then runs into another car and kills someone. The word "accident" hardly applies.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27772042771139290302008-11-30T12:35:00.000-06:002008-11-30T12:35:00.000-06:00And I can't find it in the article, but looking el...<I>And I can't find it in the article, but looking elsewhere, I can see this is true. </I><BR/><BR/>How dishonest of the writer to exclude such information. And if both Jennifer and Ann can locate that information so readily, Mr. Markon cannot claim he wasn't aware of the details; to do so would be to admit gross incompetence.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19430356823860375482008-11-30T12:13:00.000-06:002008-11-30T12:13:00.000-06:00Jennifer said... "I think it should be noted that ...Jennifer said... "I think it should be noted that the man did not have a few drinks and then accidentally run a stop sign. When the police tried to pull him over, he blew through the stop sign trying to evade them and a fourth DUI."<BR/><BR/>Now, <I>that</I> makes a difference. And I can't find it in the article, but looking elsewhere, I can see this is true. This adds a level of intentionality that makes him much more culpable.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56839320552016534272008-11-30T11:57:00.001-06:002008-11-30T11:57:00.001-06:00Yes, it does add to the culpability and the call f...Yes, it does add to the culpability and the call for a severe sentence, Jennifer. I do agree with that. I didn't see that information in the article linked, but I must have missed it.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4953880471991960572008-11-30T11:57:00.000-06:002008-11-30T11:57:00.000-06:00Hmm...no one's commented on the amount of death th...Hmm...no one's commented on the amount of death the victim doled out in his tragically short life. I could see this video backfiring to a profound degree in a blue state.KLDAVIShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11739096339024969075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13262685054965651842008-11-30T11:52:00.000-06:002008-11-30T11:52:00.000-06:00And, adding to that, intentionally blowing through...And, adding to that, <I>intentionally</I> blowing through a stop sign - other drivers be damned - to prevent the consequences of your <I>intentionally</I> criminal behavior that you had previously been caught and punished for on three separate occasions most definitely does add to your culpability.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824506338738265111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32382723338571206052008-11-30T11:51:00.000-06:002008-11-30T11:51:00.000-06:00If you want to argue that the videos are unduly pr...If you want to argue that the videos are unduly prejudicial, you need to show an example of a case where a video was used and the defendant received an out of whack sentence.<BR/><BR/>This is not such a case. <BR/><BR/>Neither is a case where the defendant raped and murdered someone.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5730455187424122232008-11-30T11:50:00.000-06:002008-11-30T11:50:00.000-06:00Pogo - I think whether or not the sentence is dese...Pogo - I think whether or not the sentence is deserved is relevant to determining whether the playing of an emotional video leads to unfair decisions or not.<BR/><BR/>Catharine - Whether or not the boy would be more or less dead is irrelevant. Whether or not the man's actions were more or less irresponsible and more or less likely to lead to someone else's death <I>is</I> relevant.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824506338738265111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11471138626141611152008-11-30T11:24:00.000-06:002008-11-30T11:24:00.000-06:00The man knew he was engaging in an activity that c...The man knew he was engaging in an activity that could cause trouble and tragedy. He does not deserve our pity. But ought the tipping point be that he was drunk, per se, or that he was engaging in an activity--any activity non-essential or counterproductive to driving--which increased the risk or even likelihood of his being involved in an accident? The fact that he was drunk makes the crime seem more heinous, but the boy would be no more or less dead had the stop-signing running occurred due to the driver eating while driving, applying makeup while driving, glancing at a GPS or open laptop while driving, talking on a cell phone while driving, or trying to evade police after getting tripping a speed trap or being spotted driving without a seatbelt. The driver would be no more or less culpable if the victim were a good boy, a bad boy, a rich boy, a poor boy, or if he were blessed with parents who could put together a 20-minute video montage or not. What are the most essential points on which justice ought turn? What points muddy the waters?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.com