tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post6983531835365437804..comments2024-03-29T04:30:19.523-05:00Comments on Althouse: "You could argue that men acted badly, but it’s hard to say how the women acted."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64577850283512795392012-08-08T13:03:17.421-05:002012-08-08T13:03:17.421-05:00Evolutionary psychology is a modern Just So story....<i>Evolutionary psychology is a modern Just So story.</i><br /><br />That's very special, Pogo, but I didn't mention evolutionary psychology. <br /><br />I simply described human nature. I offered no explanation for why we are the way we are.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68312734744385445462012-08-08T11:39:51.992-05:002012-08-08T11:39:51.992-05:00Tarzan said...
Chivalry is not natural by itself,...<i>Tarzan said... <br />Chivalry is not natural by itself, in a vacuum, so to speak. It *IS* natural in the context of a reasonably ordered and civilized society.</i><br /><br />Chivalry is a civilized term, but "women and children first" may be hard wired into our psyche's. Stone age tribes when threatened knew instinctively that genetic survival depends on defending the breeding age females, the low resource consuming (tweens for example) children, and then the fighting age males. The Old, sick and helpless are expendable in some situations.<br /><br />The tribes warriors are expendable in others.The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69860401644509592542012-08-08T11:01:29.003-05:002012-08-08T11:01:29.003-05:00The article mentions an increase in 'chivalry&...The article mentions an increase in 'chivalry' when the order is given first. This rings true for me. There have been times when I acted rudely but changed on a dime when someone I respected called me out on it.<br /><br />Basically, when we think no one is looking, we'll be selfish and unchivalrous in an extreme, unexpected emergency. When the higher expectations are expressed, we rise quickly to the cause.<br /><br />Chivalry is not natural by itself, in a vacuum, so to speak. It *IS* natural in the context of a reasonably ordered and civilized society.<br /><br />In a modern crisis, when undisciplined but otherwise conscientious crew-members receive clear and sensible orders from superiors they respect, they will for the most part cease behaving in purely self-seeking ways and become civilized and chivalrous.<br /><br />This is why the Judeo-Christian religions are so successful in 'civilizing' societies that adhere to their principles. Believing that God is watching and judging your every movement and thought, along with the raw moral fodder of Proverbs and the 10 commandments, people stand a much better chance of 'doing the right thing' in a crisis.Tarzanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00749350183917452144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34845209022106081592012-08-08T09:58:40.588-05:002012-08-08T09:58:40.588-05:00@William
That's'cause their Mama taught &...@William<br /><br />That's'cause their Mama taught 'em that!Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-602684485685954332012-08-08T09:36:17.593-05:002012-08-08T09:36:17.593-05:00Jack Finney in his book, Forgotten News gives the ...Jack Finney in his book, Forgotten News gives the story of a 19th century shipwreck off the coast of Florida. There really was a chivalric code and some men (not all) really did behave well.....I would expect men and especially crew members to be better prepared to survive a shipwreck than women and children. If there were no women or children survivors that would be proof that there was no chivalric code.....Some men behave chivalrously. That's a fact.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07837540030934495651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14716479455250440282012-08-08T09:13:46.773-05:002012-08-08T09:13:46.773-05:00Rusty said...
Survival is more a matter of will t...Rusty said...<br /><br /><i>Survival is more a matter of will than anything else.<br />During WW2, When a ship was torpedoed on the St John to Murmansk run, the British government found it odd that the majority of survivors were older sailors. Almost none of the younger, fitter, sailors in their teens and twenties survived. At first the Admiralty thought foul play was involved, but after interviewing survivors the reason became apparent.<br />The young people just gave up. They lost their will despite the encouragement from the older sailors. The older sailors knew that in the heavily traveled sea lanes it was just a matter of a few days or a couple of weeks before another ship would come by. All they had to do was last until then. The young people didn't know what they could endure so just quit.</i><br /><br />This is why, after WWII, survival training became an integral part of military training in many countries.edutcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15033144261502435196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31993942064558250962012-08-08T08:41:09.482-05:002012-08-08T08:41:09.482-05:00This study seems flawed. The Titanic took nearly ...This study seems flawed. The Titanic took nearly three hours to sink, the Lusitania took 20 minutes. No wonder the survival rates were different, there wasn't time to do anything (if you're on a big ship now it could still take you ten minutes to get to the lifeboats). So, how long did it take for each ship to sink, and then what were the survival rates.<br /><br />The other thing I'd like to know about is culture. The Titanic was full of the wealthy from a society (or societies, UK and USA) where men where still seen as protectors. On all the other ships where there was time before the sinking, what was the breakdown of class and country of origin?Doc Holliday's Hathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12304715191592737492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50397075760698867072012-08-08T07:12:35.663-05:002012-08-08T07:12:35.663-05:00Survival is more a matter of will than anything el...Survival is more a matter of will than anything else.<br />During WW2, When a ship was torpedoed on the St John to Murmansk run, the British government found it odd that the majority of survivors were older sailors. Almost none of the younger, fitter, sailors in their teens and twenties survived. At first the Admiralty thought foul play was involved, but after interviewing survivors the reason became apparent.<br />The young people just gave up. They lost their will despite the encouragement from the older sailors. The older sailors knew that in the heavily traveled sea lanes it was just a matter of a few days or a couple of weeks before another ship would come by. All they had to do was last until then. The young people didn't know what they could endure so just quit.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64016729958793146922012-08-08T06:45:12.861-05:002012-08-08T06:45:12.861-05:00"humans are all selfish bastards, or humans h...<i>"humans are all selfish bastards, or humans have evolved with an altruism gene?<br /><br />Both. We have a natural tendancy towards altruism</i>"<br /><br />Evolutionary psychology is a modern Just So story.KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39196717144736392992012-08-08T06:16:05.928-05:002012-08-08T06:16:05.928-05:00Since we're telling sea stories (pop was Bosu...Since we're telling sea stories (pop was Bosun in WWII :), let's talk about the Solomon Browne.<br /><br />The UK does not have a Coast Guard as we do. They have the Royal National Lifeboat Institute (RNLI), a charity, like a big national volunteer fire dept. Just before Christmas 1981, the MV Union star was on her maiden trip with a crew of 5 and the Captains wife and 2 step daughters, cmoing round the coast of Cornwall when it caught be a storm with hurricane force winds. Water got in the fuel tanks, they lost engines and were being driven toward the rocks when they called for help. The RNLI called out 3 boats, but ultimately only the Solomon Browne from Mousehole Conrnwall, could get free of the surf anf out to sea. Onboard were 8 local volunteers, fisherman mostly, there had been additional volunteers, but the Coxswain refused to take more than one man from each family. They got to the Union Star when it was in the surf. The lifeboats are designed to be unsinkable. They got 4 people off, it was assumed the 3 women. In the process, they were tossed up onto the sinking ship (that's right, the waves lifted them over the ship) several times. But they kept coming back for the rest of the crew. <br /><br /><i>Lt Cdr Smith USN, the pilot of the rescue helicopter later reported that:<br /> <br />"The greatest act of courage that I have ever seen, and am ever likely to see, was the penultimate courage and dedication shown by the Penlee [crew] when it manoeuvred back alongside the casualty in over 60 ft breakers and rescuing four people shortly after the Penlee had been bashed on top of the casualty's hatch covers. They were truly the bravest eight men I've ever seen who were also totally dedicated to upholding the highest standards of the RNLI</i><br /><br />An 80 foot wave broke over the scene and the Solomon had vanished.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penlee_lifeboat_disaster<br /><br />Our Coast Guard has two motto's BTW:<br /><br />The Offical: "Always Ready!"<br /><br />The Unoffical: "They say we got to go out, they don't say we got to come back"The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61731184352003815002012-08-08T05:43:13.860-05:002012-08-08T05:43:13.860-05:00Carnifex said...
@bender
You've heard the so...Carnifex said... <br /><i>@bender<br /><br />You've heard the song you know the story...have you ever heard of the Batavia before?</i><br /><br />I think Bender's point is that the song isn't based on the Batavia. It's based on exactly what it says: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald" rel="nofollow">the Edmund Fitzgerald</a>, which sank in 1975. I remember being glued to the radio when I was a kid as reports came in from that search.Martin L. Shoemakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02554126977342152497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33624182898765948352012-08-08T05:43:11.084-05:002012-08-08T05:43:11.084-05:00"Women are every bit as good as men, and they..."Women are every bit as good as men, and they are better, because they are women." - DH Laurence, <i>Lady Chatterly's Lover</i>tim in vermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547980465313241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45417071855914127072012-08-08T03:55:50.180-05:002012-08-08T03:55:50.180-05:00humans are all selfish bastards, or humans have ev...<i>humans are all selfish bastards, or humans have evolved with an altruism gene?</i><br /><br />Both. We have a natural tendancy towards altruism, at least so far as members of our group are concerned. With the exception of our children, though, it almost never cancels out self-interest.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28320116886800903162012-08-08T03:49:31.157-05:002012-08-08T03:49:31.157-05:00but wanting to take care of oneself rather than ot...<i>but wanting to take care of oneself rather than others — this may be normal behavior for all human beings.</i><br /><br />"May be"? I have to wonder what the cause for doubt would be.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86242053195894418452012-08-08T02:44:16.568-05:002012-08-08T02:44:16.568-05:00???
Why should women have a stronger right to liv...???<br /><br />Why should women have a stronger right to live than men? I don't get it. What happened to "equality"? Or is equality only good when women don't stand to lose preferential treatment?<br /><br />Such a strong feminist Althouse is.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13970112720764172104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2974995059372112812012-08-08T01:00:56.656-05:002012-08-08T01:00:56.656-05:00I share, along with only two others that aware am ...I share, along with only two others that aware am I, one Sen. Pat Geary and Mike Corleone, a hypocrisy.<br /><br />But that's not here, nor, as I had thought, originally, there.<br /><br />So, were it something like that, then how about this:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_GearyGuildofcannonballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352588747567045751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24789866290611395752012-08-08T00:57:02.621-05:002012-08-08T00:57:02.621-05:00First thing I noticed was mentioned earlier- no ta...First thing I noticed was mentioned earlier- no talk in the NY Times article of time it took to sink.<br /><br />That single factor would make all the difference in survival rates.<br /><br />Especially considering that the majority of any crew is male, and they would know know when trouble was afoot, and when to bail- and more importantly- how to get to where to bail. If you are belowdecks when the crap hits the fan, and don't know your way around in the dark, you're not leaving.Gospacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570281939230746682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88276003602834903032012-08-08T00:54:40.808-05:002012-08-08T00:54:40.808-05:00I've had a life long love of water. I tell my...I've had a life long love of water. I tell my wife if we ever win the lottery, I'm getting a bigassed boat, and no one will ever see me again. Not even for Christmas.(She likes the mountains-hhhmmpphh) I shoulda' joined the Navy.<br /><br />But I love sea stories, and boats.<br /><br />The recreation I saw on the History channel opined that because the boat was so big, when her bow went under, the engines kept driving her down, until the bow hit the bottom. The engines still dry and churning. A wave broke over the bow, crushing in the bridge glass and flooding it.<br /><br />The Fitzgerald I should clarify.Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43584125742399497782012-08-08T00:31:17.090-05:002012-08-08T00:31:17.090-05:00No, I've not heard of the Batavia before. But...No, I've not heard of the Batavia before. But its not an uncommon story, unfortunately.<br /><br />Reading now about the Edmund Fitzgerald, which went down very fast, from the last radio communications about a bad list and heavy seas over the deck, it sounds like she very likely keeled over.<br /><br />Watching Deadliest Catch this year, that almost happened to the Northwestern, which, because of a faulty alarm, took on too much water in what was supposed to be an empty slack tank, making her unstable and at risk of turning over with a strong wave. And in those frigid waters, you'd be dead from the cold water long before you drowned. (The Time Bandit and Wizard had close calls too.)<br /><br />But even in warm waters, even if you can swim, the danger of gulping water and drowning is high with the waves bouncing you up and down and over your head. I know that I was concerned myself when I once got dumped off a sailing catamaran into the two-foot waves of Lake Erie.Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322135500288738561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44633768915785052612012-08-08T00:08:56.638-05:002012-08-08T00:08:56.638-05:00@bender
You've heard the song you know the st...@bender<br /><br />You've heard the song you know the story...have you ever heard of the Batavia before?Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92190858426868769202012-08-08T00:07:37.345-05:002012-08-08T00:07:37.345-05:00Mant people don't recognize it, but Captain Bl...Mant people don't recognize it, but Captain Bligh made one of the most remarkable sailing feats ever when after being cast adrift with loyal crew members of the Bounty, he managed to steer his small skiff through hostile waters and islands with no maps but what he had in his head, and a compass, to a friendly port. There he saidled back to England where he was placed in charge of returning the mutineers of the Bounty.<br /><br />Another Captain, a whaler from Nantucket was in the sea of Japan hunting sperm whale. In the course of events, they spotted whales and launched their small whaling skiffs. These boats were average 25 feet long, held 1 small cask of water and some dried biscuits for rations, and usually carried 12-15 men each. Common practice was to leave 2 crewmen on the ship to tend it, and its reducing fire, and al the rest man he skiffs.<br /><br />All three skiffs were in the water when someone noticed a bull sperm whale attack and sink the ship(this became the basis of Moby Dick).<br /><br />The skiffs st off for Valparaiso, Venezuela, the closest friendly port, over 2,000 miles away. With no shade, no food to speak of, and little fresh water. The boats. never meant to be in the water that ong would swell and burst. The sailors would dive in the water and nail them back together.<br /><br />36 men started that journey. 5 made it to Valpo. To de-hydrated and starved to even stand they were rescued 100 miles from their goal. Their de-hydration so bad that they couldn't talk, and never regained ease of movement. Canabilism was suspected of the survivors.Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64200141022812567442012-08-07T23:53:43.160-05:002012-08-07T23:53:43.160-05:00Many people not from the Great Lakes Area don'...<i>Many people not from the Great Lakes Area don't know the Wreck of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald" rel="nofollow">Edmund Fitzgerald</a> is based on a true story.</i><br /><br />Yes, that's right. So why do you then go on to recount <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavia_(ship)" rel="nofollow">the Batavia</a>?????Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322135500288738561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26629013086937205692012-08-07T23:45:10.798-05:002012-08-07T23:45:10.798-05:00In ports of call, there are never enough dock area...In ports of call, there are never enough dock area to hold all the ships. Those places on a dock for a ship were called berths. If a ship came to port, and there was no berth available, the ship would anchor in the harbor. Because only 1 anchor was used a ship would turn wildly as the breezes blew. Other ships would have to take into account the other ships swing radius when achoring. This tradition is remembered by the phrase "giving someone a wide berth" so that the ships at anchor or passing wouldn't collide. Now it is used to reference personalities colliding.Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81016212958586344402012-08-07T23:39:30.213-05:002012-08-07T23:39:30.213-05:00Ships used to carry a whip called a "cat-o-ni...Ships used to carry a whip called a "cat-o-nine tails" The whip obviously had 9 lashes on it. to keep the lashes untangled the whip was stored in a bag, and for convienence, the bag was hung from a pin on the mast. When a sailor needed punishment they would retrieve the whip...take it out of the bag. That tradition is remembered by the phrase "the cat is out of the bag", a reference to someone who is at risk of immediate punishment.Carnifexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12561390087899686588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67636516073913271552012-08-07T23:35:19.819-05:002012-08-07T23:35:19.819-05:00So which is it this week: humans are all selfish b...<i>So which is it this week: humans are all selfish bastards, or humans have evolved with an altruism gene?</i><br /><br />It's fuck the men week. How you can be calm amazes me. There should be outrage about this outcome based analysis, and a very clear understanding of why outcome based analysis is inherently flawed.<br /><br />But, you won't get that when the basic values of conservatives must be defended. Fucking NY Times.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.com