tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post6880717493326929701..comments2024-03-29T09:28:15.883-05:00Comments on Althouse: "I shouldn't have voted for change... I don't like it..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8683621400306957122008-11-24T14:42:00.000-06:002008-11-24T14:42:00.000-06:00Rob,You're making the implicit assumption that "to...Rob,<BR/><BR/>You're making the implicit assumption that "too liberal" meant that Ann wanted less "liberalism".<BR/><BR/>What she wanted (at least in part) was a clear choice. Obama was clearly "liberal" but McCain was not clearly "conservative". McCain is not clearly anything, other than McCain.<BR/><BR/>Despite the outrage here, it's not an unreasonable stance. Arguably, eight years of the big-state mild so-con GWB have left us with the political choice of "liberalism" and slightly less "liberalism".<BR/><BR/>It's better that we have a clear choice of two philosophies rather than of two men.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18147259232218533282008-11-24T07:42:00.000-06:002008-11-24T07:42:00.000-06:00I didn't take any formal logic courses so maybe so...I didn't take any formal logic courses so maybe someone can explain this part of the conversation to me:<BR/><BR/>"he was too liberal for me<BR/><BR/>so i had to vote for obama<BR/><BR/>that's true!!"<BR/><BR/>McCain was "too liberal" so the choice was for Obama?!? (Maybe this is one of those 'why settle for the lesser of two evils' things...)Rob Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05732898106903474765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82427652629462360442008-11-23T02:12:00.000-06:002008-11-23T02:12:00.000-06:00Conversations require logic, not feelings.No.Conve...<I>Conversations require logic, not feelings.</I><BR/><BR/>No.<BR/><BR/>Conversations <I>require</I>, to the extent that conversations "require" anything, <I><B>connection[s]</B></I>. What particular requirements may attach to that reality among particular individuals or within particular communities is a whole different thing.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01569080740870663934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31363455082112792612008-11-22T23:11:00.000-06:002008-11-22T23:11:00.000-06:00Seven,I think history's going to be taking a vacat...Seven,<BR/><BR/>I think history's going to be taking a vacation from us, actually.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37722897008240210342008-11-22T22:59:00.000-06:002008-11-22T22:59:00.000-06:00The one change I would like to see if the death kn...The one change I would like to see if the death knell of scandal politics. Let Obama govern, and let him fail or succeed based on his policies. Let's not have this Clinton and Bush baggage bullshit any more. It's trite and tiresome.<BR/><BR/>Our vacation from history is definitely over now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71598102025228208822008-11-22T22:29:00.000-06:002008-11-22T22:29:00.000-06:00I think it's funny how many people missed the iron...I think it's funny how many people missed the irony here. <BR/><BR/>Ann voted against McCain, a choice it's hard to argue against. She presumed he really wasn't for "change", not in the material sense. (Sure, something tangential like race, but not really policy-wise.)<BR/><BR/>If McCain had been truly conservative--i.e., resistant to change--she probably wouldn't have voted for Obama.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65295351969990363162008-11-22T22:19:00.000-06:002008-11-22T22:19:00.000-06:00Simon said... Bit late for buyer's remorse. There'...<I>Simon said... <BR/>Bit late for buyer's remorse. There's no new information that's come to light since election day to change the calculus.</I><BR/><BR/>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/german-publishings-man-in-the-white-house/<BR/><BR/>This bothers me.<BR/><BR/>I kept up to speed on most of the pre-election gossip and near misses. (And hope I sorted them reasonably.) I didn't know about this.<BR/><BR/>Probably won't bother a lot of people -- especially the NYT and WaPo -- since short of being an ax murderer, no one cares about anything questionable with Obama.<BR/><BR/>There's something off about this Bertelsmann thing. It would be interesting to have some one who has the can do to look into this closely.<BR/><BR/>Maybe Obama needs to give the money back.JALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15503869597362866878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76815798024422466342008-11-22T21:16:00.000-06:002008-11-22T21:16:00.000-06:00It was a desire of alot of people.. but not a prom...It was a desire of alot of people.. but not a promise. That is why so much of this campaign was spent in the clouds of obfuscation. Words mean things. And unfortunately, his words, mean different things to different people (see Ann for example). Kinda hard to run against a doppelganger that can't be pinned down and effective points and counterpoints debated. <BR/><BR/>The next campaign season begins now with taking back political speech first by defining and defending what words mean and holding your ground without the boogey man argument taking hold.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092929642943210539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68815024671303487902008-11-22T21:01:00.000-06:002008-11-22T21:01:00.000-06:00Stephanie said...The hope that a black man is gonn...<I>Stephanie said...The hope that a black man is gonna be prez is not a campaign promise. Promises are things that can be broken, and if you think he is suddenly gonna disown his blackness...</I><BR/><BR/>It wasn't blackness as such it was victorious blackness taking over the highest status position in America. That's a lot of hope and he did it. That's a promise fulfilled to a lot of people.<BR/><BR/><I>And change ain't "I'm not white guys who look like money"... I haven't seen many republicans in wigs in years. Or do republican white guys have some distinguishing characteristic that allows ready identification that would allow them to be differentiated from Biden, Holder, et al?</I><BR/><BR/>Change was always THE racial code word of the election. Not even a month after the election and a black president is no big deal. That's an insane amount of change and for a lot of Americans and others world wide that's the change they hoped for and they got it.<BR/><BR/><I>To wit, you haven't noted a single campaign PROMISE that he has not already done some serious walking back and serious prevarication on. I can't think of one.</I><BR/><BR/>I didn't vote for him. My guy Romney got killed off in Florida in the primaries.<BR/><BR/><I>His words really do have a shelf life of less than 24 hours.</I><BR/><BR/>What's the surprise? We all knew the swing vote was going to be single women. We all knew he was going to wine and dine them, promise them this and that.<BR/><BR/>And we all knew the single, no man having, got bills to pay, distaff dingbats were going to pick the young Harry Belafonte/Denzel over the Little Crypt Keeper.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, who didn't know this other than Republicans who voted for McCain in the primaries?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21480318621115844242008-11-22T20:35:00.000-06:002008-11-22T20:35:00.000-06:00Now go complain to your girlfriends about what a j...<I>Now go complain to your girlfriends about what a jerk he is.</I><BR/><BR/>His pillow talk didn't work for me. <BR/><BR/>And I don't have "girlfriends." Too damn many women are into the whole "touchy feely" claptrap to hold my interest in a conversation. Conversations require logic, not feelings.<BR/><BR/>The hope that a black man is gonna be prez is not a campaign promise. Promises are things that can be broken, and if you think he is suddenly gonna disown his blackness...<BR/><BR/>And change ain't "I'm not white guys who look like money"... I haven't seen many republicans in wigs in years. Or do republican white guys have some distinguishing characteristic that allows ready identification that would allow them to be differentiated from Biden, Holder, et al? I know Clinton's member is purported to veer left, but I don't remember the last cabinet meeting that was held in a nudist colony to discern if that is a perquisite for office under Obama. <BR/><BR/>To wit, you haven't noted a single campaign PROMISE that he has not already done some serious walking back and serious prevarication on. I can't think of one. <BR/><BR/>His words really do have a shelf life of less than 24 hours. Now that is the change I have seen and can believe...Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092929642943210539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59123372851139641662008-11-22T20:14:00.000-06:002008-11-22T20:14:00.000-06:00Yes, blake, the machine will be whirring away in t...Yes, blake, the machine will be whirring away in the background. Obama is very smart; his real work will be building a permanent, dependent electorate.PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40515192717008471712008-11-22T19:50:00.001-06:002008-11-22T19:50:00.001-06:00That's just what we call "pillow talk", baby!<I>That's just what we call "pillow talk", baby!</I>blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83955832745619022662008-11-22T19:50:00.000-06:002008-11-22T19:50:00.000-06:00You're clearly not reading Sullivan closely enough...<I>You're clearly not reading Sullivan closely enough.</I><BR/><BR/>You're not paying me enough. <BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm having psychic visions. I suspect we'll see much more continuity with Bush policies on several areas where Andrew was quite Bush-deranged. <BR/><BR/>I think Obama's first security briefing was an "oh wow" moment for our new president.John Stodderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185881995621265497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27935472959292094052008-11-22T19:36:00.000-06:002008-11-22T19:36:00.000-06:00Stephanie said...Name one campaign promise that it...<I>Stephanie said...Name one campaign promise that it looks like Obama is going to follow... I mean one with which he has come out with an unequivocated commitment.</I><BR/><BR/>I can name two. Hope and Change.<BR/><BR/>Many people had hope that a black male could win the highest honor in America and hoped that his success would give them the thrill of black victory.<BR/><BR/>One promise fulfilled. Did you see the faces at the post election rally?<BR/><BR/>Change. Old White men who look like the old White men on the money - out of the White House. Republicans out.<BR/><BR/>Second promise fulfilled.<BR/><BR/>Now will he change America's "brand"? Change the world's perceptions of America?<BR/><BR/>Some say he already has.<BR/><BR/>The other stuff - economy, health care, defense, global environment change, lion and lamb spooning in the moonlight, parting the Red Sea. That was all the promises a guy makes just to get a woman to spread her legs.<BR/><BR/>Hey, it worked. Single women went for the Big O in a big way.<BR/><BR/>Now go complain to your girlfriends about what a jerk he is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38199545282528198032008-11-22T19:11:00.000-06:002008-11-22T19:11:00.000-06:00We have elected our third consecutive light-weight...We have elected our third consecutive light-weight for President. The parties and the voters have gambled once too often. As, unfortunately, the times are serious. I don't forsee any progress under Obama but I do expect high drama. The good news I see is Hillary and Gates are going to curb the stupid ideas of Biden and give our allies some assurance that adults DO oversee US foreign policy. Obama's role is to look good and focus on economy.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415427249898754955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31468208989808331562008-11-22T18:41:00.000-06:002008-11-22T18:41:00.000-06:00It's estrogen in the voter pool.And the need for a...It's estrogen in the voter pool.<BR/><BR/>And the need for audience.rhhardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901742898653890646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6768432061437139582008-11-22T18:21:00.000-06:002008-11-22T18:21:00.000-06:00This whole election is insane. The campaign was in...This whole election is insane. The campaign was insane. The result is insane. Someone put psychotropic drugs in the national water supply.Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14023852057418281003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19352330933007028452008-11-22T18:04:00.000-06:002008-11-22T18:04:00.000-06:00Name one campaign promise that it looks like Obama...Name one campaign promise that it looks like Obama is going to follow... I mean one with which he has come out with an unequivocated commitment. <BR/><BR/>Seems to me he is committed to none and walking back all. If he walks them back far enough, they recede from the minds of voters, and it's as if they were never promised at all. <BR/><BR/>The new campaign mantra "I just never got around to it."<BR/><BR/>Now how is that for change you can BELIEVE in?Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092929642943210539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55205848567657272362008-11-22T17:49:00.000-06:002008-11-22T17:49:00.000-06:00Andrew Sullivan is having more buyers' remorse tha...Andrew Sullivan is having more buyers' remorse than I am. That right there is a good sign. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You're clearly not reading Sullivan closely enough. He thinks the Obama choices so far are solid, with the exception of Brennan (who has not been selected officially yet).<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/a-close-friend.html" REL="nofollow">So far, the solid conventionality of his cabinet picks - with the sole exception of torture apologist Jim Brennan - seems exactly what I'd expect from a serious man intent on serious government." </A>ron st.amanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07288644705112802454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18590728529219190032008-11-22T17:48:00.000-06:002008-11-22T17:48:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.ron st.amanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07288644705112802454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26831081751825475882008-11-22T17:01:00.000-06:002008-11-22T17:01:00.000-06:00I think the real thing we'll see, as PatCA points ...I think the real thing we'll see, as PatCA points out, is progress in making the Democrats invulnerable to the whims of democracy.<BR/><BR/>Both parties do this very well, but the Dems better than the Reps. <BR/><BR/>After all, it really doesn't matter what shape the country is in if you're in charge.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3619372317201511422008-11-22T15:22:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:22:00.000-06:00Oh, IM'ing...I thought, who's I Ming?So far I like...Oh, IM'ing...I thought, who's I Ming?<BR/><BR/><BR/>So far I like Obama's appointments, but his 2.5 million infrastructure jobs thing worries me. That means 2.4 million bureaucrats with "partners" like Acorn and La Raza, and a few real project here and there.PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79648831743472926202008-11-22T15:20:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:20:00.000-06:00The Obama / FDR comparisons are not based on any k...The Obama / FDR comparisons are not based on any kind of reality whatsoever... <BR/><BR/><I>The claim that FDR "saved us" from the Great Depression is simple ignorance or outright deception. Roosevelt inherited the economic problems largely created by Hoover and <B>made them much worse.</B><BR/><BR/>The historical case is of obvious relevance to us today.</I><BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/4xb8ak<BR/><BR/><I>Most historians and political scientists... recognize that it was not FDR's leadership, accomplishments, and certainly not his temperament which brought the Great Depression to an end. <BR/><BR/><B>World War II brought the Great Depression to an end.</B></I><BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/5pupw6<BR/><BR/>We just put in office the last guy likely to get us out of this rut.Lem the artificially intelligent https://www.blogger.com/profile/03569712564034666751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77845101593751023252008-11-22T15:12:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:12:00.000-06:00I wonder if there will be anywhere left to do an e...<I>I wonder if there will be anywhere left to do an experiment on that little tried system known as capitalism.</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe in the Mideast, maybe in some Asian countries. But in the west? Forget about it. <BR/><BR/>We've reached the end of history, and as soon as all the right people are in charge, "change" will stop being a slogan and turn into a blasphemy.Fatmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423926562580355663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46911839880885401562008-11-22T15:08:00.000-06:002008-11-22T15:08:00.000-06:00I didn't vote Obama (I felt the pull largely on a...I didn't vote Obama (I felt the pull largely on an age or generational basis, but simply couldn't afford him and/or his policies.) <BR/><BR/> I mostly like his picks so far. <BR/><BR/>I would think then that the majority of the primary season Obamamites WOULD be experiencing heavy buyer's remorse (if I'm happy), but they don't seem to be.lowercasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03005647523147840405noreply@blogger.com