tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post55448808389511710..comments2024-03-29T22:21:03.303-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Is the Trayvon Martin walkback becoming a stampede?"Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger232125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84082902841803501302012-04-06T09:33:48.825-05:002012-04-06T09:33:48.825-05:00all i read is during this so called encounter is t...all i read is during this so called encounter is this kid called a 16 year old girl to tell her he was being followed and trying to escape......has any one wondered WHY if he thought he was in trouble he didnt call his parents for help????Where were they and why didnt they know EXATCLY where he was,i posted before and i made myself an intrusive pain in my kids asses until they were over 18 some are married and have their own children now and i STILL am an intrusive pain in their asses,WHy hasnt the news media come out and ask the parents WHERE WERE YOU?HOW IS IT A 17 YEAR OLD WAS NOT UNDER YOUR THUMB?WHY DIDNT HE CALL YOU??THIS WAS A CHILD UNDER YOUR CARE!!!IF ZIMMERMAN GETS CHARGED AS FAR AS I AM COnCERNED YOU GET CHARGED WITH HIMshemishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10976695830255063500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80301062265907181982012-04-06T09:19:31.243-05:002012-04-06T09:19:31.243-05:00this young thug got exactly whathe deserved SHOT n...this young thug got exactly whathe deserved SHOT no matter how Zimmerman got there wrong or right,he was down and being beaten and had a god given right to protect himself,only he truly knows if his life was in danger,he was the only one who could"feel"if he was getting to the point of no return,Trayvon Martin,i pity the boys parents BUT have a question for them being a father of 4 i ALWAYS knew exactly where my kids where and with who this boy was underage,how did he get into this position????? SHAME ON YOU you bear much of the resposibiltyshemishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10976695830255063500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43427449682408711122012-04-03T12:05:08.155-05:002012-04-03T12:05:08.155-05:00Great point that the overwhelming majority of hisp...<i>Great point that the overwhelming majority of hispanics in the USA have a significant AmerIndian component in their genetic heritage (on average, a little under 40%).</i><br /><br />Interesting to me though, is that Hispanics seem to overwhelmingly self-identify as "white", almost regardless of the amount of non-white blood they have. (And, I have no problem with that - if more Blacks would self-identify as White, then maybe they wouldn't spend so much time perpetuating racism).Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9516244877540525642012-04-03T12:00:57.844-05:002012-04-03T12:00:57.844-05:00Great point that the overwhelming majority of hisp...<i>Great point that the overwhelming majority of hispanics in the USA have a significant AmerIndian component in their genetic heritage (on average, a little under 40%)</i>.<br /><br />Living in the west and southwest, I am just surprised that it isn't higher. But, that may be accounted for by your figures being national, including Puerto Ricans, Cubans, etc., which may have less Indian blood than do many of the first generation immigrants I see here in AZ. And, I wonder if, given the class component of skin color, esp. it seems in regards to Mexicans, if maybe the skin color of the average Hispanic immigrant (including illegals) is darkening over time. At least along the Mexican border.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14950590584324125082012-04-03T11:11:00.638-05:002012-04-03T11:11:00.638-05:00People do tend to be less skeptical of information...People do tend to be less skeptical of information they feel "sounds right" and to that extent I'd agree with garage.<br /><br /> But I disagree, too. Being less skeptical is a far cry from insisting that something is proof, or failing to take an honest look if someone on the other side points out that voice recognition requires multiple recordings of the person voicing the same words in the same way. So until they get Zimmerman to lay on the ground and scream the same words while they record it through a cell phone to the 911 recording equipment three times the "experts" can't say a dang thing about if it was him or not.<br /><br />As for being ready to believe what one desires to be true... I've only seen one side of this that has a clearly PREFERRED narrative. Those that have refused that preferred narrative haven't insisted on the opposite. They (we) have been saying that no honest person can be sure what happened and perhaps pointing out that emotions anent proof and fanning the flames is evil.<br /><br /> That's not a case of believing what we want most to believe.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43813441004288212862012-04-03T11:00:21.941-05:002012-04-03T11:00:21.941-05:00Bruce,
Great point that the overwhelming majority...Bruce,<br /><br />Great point that the overwhelming majority of hispanics in the USA have a significant AmerIndian component in their genetic heritage (on average, a little under 40%).<br /><br />In Mexico, it seems like as you go farther south, the Mexicans are much more AmerIndian and much less of European descent.Steve Kochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13077530042599697923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43098675328774650512012-04-03T10:18:52.085-05:002012-04-03T10:18:52.085-05:00Jay...The UNavailable evidence is the issue. That ...Jay...The UNavailable evidence is the issue. That is why it is called a cover up.<br /><br /><br /> And what you call the available evidence still needs the sifting cross examination that a trial produces from sworn witnesses who are allowed to explain their answers. And that must be done in a public hearing in a tightly judge controlled room with jurors and skilled lawyers. Then the justice system will have done its job.<br /><br />Why do you demand that not happen and this end without uncovering any more of the story? Top Secret should be used by the CIA and the State Department. It is not normal to use it in a stupid shooting done in a backwater located somewhere between Orlando and Cape Kennedy called Sanford Florida.<br /><br />If I am a racist for expecting law and order for all races, colors and creeds, then so be it.traditionalguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05706120413005530014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53071533930411868862012-04-03T10:05:50.097-05:002012-04-03T10:05:50.097-05:00Trad: The Zimmermans have never been the victims.
...Trad: <i>The Zimmermans have never been the victims.</i><br /><br />Other than fearing for their lives, having his rep ruined, having his dreams of being a police officer dashed, and your intent that he become financially ruined by ponying up $100k to defend himself in a show trail.<br /><br />That's your standard, yes? If we can't take away your right to shoot in self-defense, we'll ruin your life instead.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61066163167007512652012-04-03T09:42:47.939-05:002012-04-03T09:42:47.939-05:00MSNBC, et al. made George Zimmerman into a public ...<i>MSNBC, et al. made George Zimmerman into a public figure by falsely reporting about him, and they can't later hide behind that higher public-figure standard when he sues them for defamation (or would it be "false light," assuming FL recognizes that cause of action?). His burden of proof in a defamation action is the least of his worries, right now</i>.<br /><br />This is the way that it should work, but not clear if it is the way that it actually does.<br /><br />What LM was talking about is the NYT v. Sullivan standard, where defamation claims by public figures requires proof of actual malice, while those against everyone else requires a lower standard. So, the key is in determining whether or not the victim is a public figure. <br /><br />In the case of Sandra Flake, she thrust herself into the public arena through volunteering to "testify" before that fake Congressional committee. And, for that reason, I don't think that there is any good reason to believe that the actual malice standard would apply. <br /><br />But, this is very different. Zimmerman didn't set out to become a national figure. And, likely, if he had any way of knowing in advance what was going to happen that night, would have stayed in his car. <br /><br />There is the big question of whether the media can make someone a public figure merely by reporting about them. But, in this case, part of why Zimmerman became a national figure is that the media, and in particular, NBC and MSNBC mis-reported. <br /><br />In other words, if Zimmerman is held to be a public figure, then the reality will be that if they lie, then they may be liable, but if the lie is big enough to get the national media involved, then somehow a much higher standard would be required for proving defamation claims.<br /><br />That said, I would far prefer being on the Zimmerman's side in any litigation against NBC/MSNBC. The smoking gun is doctored 911 tape. Given that the doctored tape strongly implies racism on the part of Zimmerman, that is not evident from the original tape, I think that being able to prove actual malice is likely. <br /><br />Remember back to Ms. Flake and her fake "testimony"? Some suggested that Rush's comments about her constituted <i>per se</i> defamation, based on the traditional view that a claim of unchastity was <i>per se</i> actionable. Of course, that wasn't going anywhere, because her testimony suggested just that - unchastity. <br /><br />Showing the changing times, the one thing today that might rise to <i>per se</i> defamation might be to call someone a racist. <br /><br />In any case, the easy proof that NBC had faked data to try to portray Zimmerman as a racist would be the type of evidence that would likely prejudice the jury sufficiently to grant him significant damages as a result of a claim by him of defamation by the media outlet. <br /><br />But, making themselves even more vulnerable, last I knew, they Al Sharpton still had a show on MSNBC, and was seen down in Florida inciting the crowds of blacks around the country to consider this a racist killing. So, not only did a very visible employee of the media outlet agitate openly for the racial angle here, and for racial violence and revenge, they also reported on it in a way that would fan these flames against Zimmerman, and additionally faked data to support those claims of racism. <br /><br />Like I said, I would love to be on Zimmerman's side in that litigation. Much more fun than playing defense there.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22759975086063673732012-04-03T09:22:40.144-05:002012-04-03T09:22:40.144-05:00The cover up is falling apart
There is no "c...<i>The cover up is falling apart</i><br /><br />There is no "cover up"<br /><br />And every bit of available evidence indicates your preferred narrative didn't happen.<br /><br />You haven't posted a single fact about this case.<br /><br />Everything you've said has been abjectly false.<br /><br />Which of course would leave anyone with common sense and a brain to examine what they believe.<br /><br />You'll stick to the narrative.Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83915001389347873432012-04-03T09:19:55.520-05:002012-04-03T09:19:55.520-05:00traditionalguy said...
Jay...What motivates your ...<i>traditionalguy said... <br />Jay...What motivates your compulsion to go directly into the ad hominum attack mode to defend the Zimmerman's story about being attacked by the Martins?<br /><br /></i><br /><br />Um, pointing out you're a liar (and basically a dupe) is not "defending Zimmerman"<br /><br />I'm sorry you can't understand that.<br /><br />But your silly racism and conspiracy theories are a continued embarrassment.Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56501119227130744832012-04-03T09:14:06.515-05:002012-04-03T09:14:06.515-05:00Had the Police Chief and the State's Attorney ...<i>Had the Police Chief and the State's Attorney acted as professionals from the start, there would be no "looming race riots". Had there been an arrest and a grand jury presentment, with or without an indictment, none of us would know of Trayvon or George.<br /><br />I'd love to know what circumstances brought these two clowns to the scene that night. Something smells</i>.<br /><br />The problem is that if there had been a presentment to the Grand Jury, there is a distinct possibility that there would not have been an indictment, and if there had been an immediate arrest by the cops, Zimmerman would have been released when it came time to go before a judge.<br /><br />Much more likely than the other way, the way it often works is for cops to arrest and prosecutors to release. Why? Because the cops are working from personal knowledge, instinct, and gut feelings, while the prosecutors are operating from the record (including the 911 calls) and the law. <br /><br />As a non-criminal attorney, touching this area, I have seen it more than once. For example, in one case, cops arrested a guy for refusing to take a roadside sobriety test. Eventually blew about .10, which by now is DUI. Case dismissed by City Attorney before initial hearing because state case law said that roadside sobriety test was for determining probable cause, and therefore, there was some reason to believe that there wasn't PC for the arrest, otherwise the cops wouldn't have kept insisting on the test. A subtlety that the cops didn't quite get. And, to some extent, they probably arrested because they could, and needed to because the guy had refused to comply with their request. <br /><br />Here, the problem may have been the FL self-defense laws, which require that if someone asserts self-defense, that the state has to show probable cause to believe that it wasn't. <br /><br />In the legal world, a lot of states view self-defense as an affirmative defense, which means that the defendant has the initial burden of proof. Not so in Florida, where the state has the initial burden of proof (and, must ultimately prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was not in self-defense). <br /><br />Think about what the DA's office had the first day - the 911 tapes, the injuries to Zimmerman, his wet back, etc. consistent with his story, along with his claim of self-defense. At that point, why would they believe that the killing was more likely than not, not done in self-defense? It may not have been self-defense, but initially, there seems to have been at least as much evidence that Zimmerman's story was true, than that it wasn't. And, that means that they could not legally arrest him at that time.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84900332977798157512012-04-03T08:48:31.347-05:002012-04-03T08:48:31.347-05:00"Hispanic" isn't a racial group and ...<i>"Hispanic" isn't a racial group and never has been. The overwhelming majority of Hispanics are white, although there is a substantial black minority (a legacy of the slave trade, same as here).</i><br /><br />Actually, from where I am from, esp. in the west and south-west, Hispanics tend to be a mixture of American Indian (i.e. Oriental/N Asian) and white, ranging from almost pure Indian through pure Spanish (such DoI Sec. Salazar). It is only when you get into the more Caribbean Hispanics that you see much black blood. Figure close to zero in the border and western states. More Indian than anything though throughout much of the Americas. You just don't always notice it, here in the U.S., because the leadership of these countries, esp. Mexico, tended to remain very White. You just don't always immediately think "Indian" because the predominant Indian type there is different than that we now see in the Southwest - which I believe mostly came from another, later, migration, out of a different part of Asia. Plus, the Spanish language TV tends to use European looking actors, to a very great extent. Again, the class/color dynamic. <br /><br />But, we are talking here Florida, where the Hispanics traditionally were much different than we see here in the Southwest.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69843431330158698162012-04-03T08:48:30.015-05:002012-04-03T08:48:30.015-05:00Jay...What motivates your compulsion to go directl...Jay...What motivates your compulsion to go directly into the ad hominum attack mode to defend the Zimmerman's story about being attacked by the Martins?<br /><br />The Zimmermans have never been the victims. They have been the ones carefully stirring up a racial call to arms as a smoke screen to hide behind.<br /><br />The cover up is falling apart. Now what will you do?traditionalguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05706120413005530014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2247460302793933582012-04-03T07:30:45.346-05:002012-04-03T07:30:45.346-05:00traditionalguy said...
The father somehow has tol...<i>traditionalguy said...<br /><br />The father somehow has told the locals what he expects for them to do and someone made a call to to the Florida higher ups who showed up did it<br /><br /></i><br /><br />I still can't believe you actually typed this on the Internet.<br /><br />At least the anonymity allows for us to not know who you really are, which would be so embarrassing for you, I can't really even articulate it.<br /><br />I would feel sorry for you, but you're nothing but a hate monger at this point, aiming to sow racial division.Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33709590265600361752012-04-03T07:28:40.823-05:002012-04-03T07:28:40.823-05:00garage mahal said...
Like I said, if ABC were rep...<i>garage mahal said...<br /><br />Like I said, if ABC were reporting what you wanted to hear, or if the voice analyst was saying what you wanted to hear, you'd be banging on the drum all day.</i><br /><br />Nice bit of projection.<br /><br />But it is revealing that you can't bring yourself to offer even token criticism of your little hobby horses <i>under any circumstances</i> at all.Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59862397893660778232012-04-03T07:27:17.714-05:002012-04-03T07:27:17.714-05:00Jay, Fen, I guess we just haven't been steeped...Jay, Fen, I guess we just haven't been steeped in the culture of tea and skittles.<br /><br />I know, I know, he's such a good boy, and probably would look like the son of Teh Won if he had one.Toad Trendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03113877205525601966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64544811530749379572012-04-03T07:24:21.693-05:002012-04-03T07:24:21.693-05:00traditionalguy said...
The father somehow has tol...<i>traditionalguy said...<br /><br />The father somehow has told the locals what he expects for them to do and someone made a call to to the Florida higher ups who showed up did it<br /></i><br /><br />Could you be <b>any</b> more over the top and obscene?Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88835311210125922392012-04-03T07:23:48.495-05:002012-04-03T07:23:48.495-05:00White vigilantes?
Why the racist slip-up there, ...White vigilantes? <br /><br />Why the racist slip-up there, St Croix?<br /><br />Saint Croix: <i>I was mocking you, Fen.</i> <br /><br />Oh I get it, you think I'm white. <br /><br />Fail.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10977459161182289042012-04-03T06:50:33.624-05:002012-04-03T06:50:33.624-05:00Damn ... it happened again, put up a comment, Blog...Damn ... it happened again, put up a comment, Blogger ignores it, this time for over 6 minutes, then posts it when I post again. Better than last time, when I got the WV right, and a remark disappeared in to the ether.Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77703418775323370292012-04-03T06:47:23.481-05:002012-04-03T06:47:23.481-05:00Well, Garage Mahal gets the Todd Rundgren Award fo...Well, Garage Mahal gets the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZclddLcOYYA" rel="nofollow">Todd Rundgren Award</a> for this thread. Banging away insisting something that did not happen proves the validity of something dubious that did happen. Bang away, man, it's amusing ....Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65365076186321825162012-04-03T06:41:47.204-05:002012-04-03T06:41:47.204-05:00garage mahal said...
He could be. But ask yourse...garage mahal said... <br /><br /><i>He could be. But ask yourself, would your reaction been the same had he stated that it *was* Zimmerman? Absolutely fucking not. And you know it.</i><br /><br />Wow, g-m, you sure you're not <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZclddLcOYYA" rel="nofollow">Todd Rundgren</a> ... sure do seem to insist a event that didn't happen proves something that did but is dubious. But, hey, bang on .... it's amusing.Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78612155882615169492012-04-03T06:06:05.991-05:002012-04-03T06:06:05.991-05:00It is curious, the stampede of the press to join t...It is curious, the stampede of the press to join the race-hustling left.<br /><br />Just another case of 'not doing your homework', perhaps???<br /><br />There seems to be a lot of that going around, and plenty of 'folks' willing to push that rope.<br /><br />So, Trayvon was out in the rain, apparently to go to the 7-Eleven for 'candy'.<br /><br />Riiiiight. Anyone seen this sweet young boys' twitter feed???? Sorry, pretty indefensible.<br /><br />Maybe, a better understanding of what <a href="http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/03/31/tea-and-skittles/" rel="nofollow">tea and skittles</a> is, exactly, might shed some light. Or, maybe if we had some information about what he bought that evening, and in what store??? Is that really available??? Toxicology, anyone???Toad Trendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03113877205525601966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2284389800502245212012-04-02T23:22:55.744-05:002012-04-02T23:22:55.744-05:00I'll go out on a limb and say that if this voi...<i>I'll go out on a limb and say that if this voice analyst said it was Zimmerman, Instapundit, you, and everyone else on the right would be his biggest backer</i><br /><br />I can't speak for the others.<br /><br />What I need to form an opinion about this kind of thing is evidence which is grounded in reality. That means tests which have demonstrated validity and can be reproduced by others. Results which are iffy are iffy, no matter who produces them.<br /><br />I do some reading in other topics (not legal) where evidence and reproducability and validity are critical. <br /><br />I also see that some people like being heroes. Some like being close to the drama. Some people like 15 minutes of fame.<br /><br />Just saying.<br /><br />Many of the comments here are pointing out the problems in some of the irresponsible and near crazy things being alleged as "truth." Many of these same commenters also state they do not know what the actual facts are and what actually happened.<br /><br />How about some intellectual honesty.JALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15503869597362866878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89126811851533820452012-04-02T22:53:44.204-05:002012-04-02T22:53:44.204-05:00White vigilantes?
Why the racist slip-up there, ...<i>White vigilantes? <br /><br />Why the racist slip-up there, St Croix?</i><br /><br />I was mocking you, Fen.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.com