tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post5275207886036160715..comments2024-03-19T01:52:00.810-05:00Comments on Althouse: Tom Tancredo at the Tea Party convention: "Thank God John McCain lost the election."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger159125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85678074345296683392010-02-08T09:19:46.048-06:002010-02-08T09:19:46.048-06:00Re: "Resolution 511 hearings"
That was ...Re: "Resolution 511 hearings"<br /><br />That was to add McCain to Obama's eligibility. No one had the slightest doubt of Obama's eligibility under the original meaning of Natural Born, which was "born in the country."<br /><br />Some say that you can either be born in the country or born to two US citizens abroad. Like you can wear suspenders or a belt; you do not have to wear both.<br /><br />That is the definition of Black's Law Dictionary. <br /><br />It said: "“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition.<br /><br />In short, adding McCain's eligibility does not take away Obama's eligibility. Three examples of Obama's eligibility being the overwhelming consensus would be the Electoral College vote. You may recall that Obama won 365 electoral votes on Nov 4 2008. Well birthers and two-fers wrote to the electors trying to get them to change their votes either because Obama may have been born outside the USA, as birthers say, or because Obama's father affects Natural Born status, as two-fers say. Well, not one of the 365 changed a vote.<br /><br />Second, the same took place before Congress, where birthers and two-fers tried to get at some congressmen to vote not to confirm Obama. But not one did.<br /><br />And the third, of course, was the swearing in of Obama by the Chief Justice.smrstrausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17130680385818556655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54330040639954341892010-02-06T20:15:33.905-06:002010-02-06T20:15:33.905-06:00Mick, prove to us you aren't an Axelrod plant,...Mick, prove to us you aren't an Axelrod plant, and I'll start treating you like something other than a crank who does more harm to "his side" than good.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05900300303751364008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-364094752775937172010-02-06T06:27:22.779-06:002010-02-06T06:27:22.779-06:00Mark said,
"And I'm pretty sure Mick is ...Mark said,<br /><br />"And I'm pretty sure Mick is on Axelrod's payroll. Best to ignore him"<br /><br />Another one that doesn't understand the argument. I really thought people would be smarter here. Then prove me wrong. WHAT says that any non citizen can swim across the border, drop a baby, and that baby be eligible to be POTUS one day? I've already dismantled smrstrauss with the same tired WKA cite multiple times. That's all he's got. I've given MULTIPLE CITES and proofs. Can't any of you prove me wrong? You know, something besides you're stupid, that's not what that says, you're a birther (I don't care where he was born), etc, etc. You guys must not be very good lawyers.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10557052127730413912010-02-06T06:14:23.484-06:002010-02-06T06:14:23.484-06:00smratrauss said,
"I stress that Bingham was ...smratrauss said,<br /><br />"I stress that Bingham was not a writer of the Constitution because a search of the writings of such leaders as Hamilton, Adams, and Jay shows that when they used the phrase "Natural Born Citizen," they ALWAYS used it to mean "born in the country. They NEVER used it to mean "born in the country to two citizen parents."<br /><br />Well he was a writer of the constitution, unless you don't count the 14 Amendment as part of the Constitution. Also this was 90 years after ratification of the USC, so the term was still fresh in the public mind. It has been purposefully eroded from consciouness over time. And No the don't ALWAYS or NEVER (typical unproven nonsense spouted by the Obama Bridgetenders.<br /><br />smrstrauss said,<br /><br />""Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning.""<br /><br />Taranto is another of the Bridgetenders posing as a journalist. 3rd hand opinions from hack writers don't count as proof. Children born in Italy to 2 US Citizens, for instance, are US citizens by birth, but they are also Italian Citizens by birth, thus they are born with dual allegiance and are not Natural Born Citizens.<br /><br />Hatch and Graham clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Citing an opinion that matches yours is not proof But during the Resolution 511 hearings there was this exchange between Leahy and Michael Chertoff:<br /> "Chairman Leahy: We will come back to that. I would mention one other thing, if I might, Senator Specter. Let me just ask this: I believe–and we have had some question in this Committee to have a special law passed declaring that Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal, that he meets the constitutional requirement to be President. I fully believe he does. I have never had any question in my mind that he meets our constitutional requirement. You are a former Federal judge. You are the head of the agency that executes Federal immigration law. Do you have any doubt in your mind–I mean, I have none in mine. Do you have any doubt in your mind that he is constitutionally eligible to become President?<br /><br /> <br /><br />Secretary Chertoff: My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Chairman Leahy. That is mine, too. Thank you. <br /><br />They both agreed that Natural Born Citizens are born of AMERICAN PARENTS (plural). So why wasn't the hearing about Obama?<br /><br />Seriously, if Wong Kim ark is all that the Obama Bridgetenders have (that's all they ever present) then they are dead wrong. Wong was found to be a "Citizen" not a NBC, because he was born in the US to RESIDENT ALIEN UNNATURALIZEABLE ALIENS. That was the decision. Read it. Anything else you are just making up.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20900198729878837902010-02-06T00:25:52.749-06:002010-02-06T00:25:52.749-06:00Re: "What says that if you are simply born in...Re: "What says that if you are simply born in the US you are eligible for POTUS?"<br /><br />Well, first the Wong Kim Ark case that says that EVERY child born in the country is Natural Born, and if you are both Natural Born and a citizen you are, of course, a Natural Born Citizen.<br /><br />I have quoted the relevant passage of the Wong Kim Ark ruling earlier.<br /><br />Then, there is the widespread understanding of the meaning of Natural Born Citizen.<br /><br />Yale Law Review wrote: "It is well settled that “native-born” citizens, those born in the United States, qualify as natural born. "<br /><br />Black's Law Dictionary wrote: "“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.”<br /><br />The Wall Street Journal wrote:<br /><br />"Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning."<br /><br />And such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:<br /><br />Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:<br /><br />“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)<br /><br />Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:<br /><br />“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)<br /><br />Bingham was not a writer of the Constitution. He gave his opinion, which was not the same as was given by the six-to-two majority of the Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark case.<br /><br />I stress that Bingham was not a writer of the Constitution because a search of the writings of such leaders as Hamilton, Adams, and Jay shows that when they used the phrase "Natural Born Citizen," they ALWAYS used it to mean "born in the country. They NEVER used it to mean "born in the country to two citizen parents."smrstrausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17130680385818556655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47565092858035781792010-02-06T00:03:26.614-06:002010-02-06T00:03:26.614-06:00What about "lesser evil" don't you g...What about "lesser evil" don't you get?Beldarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13404583858244777905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72024689658524887432010-02-05T22:48:56.458-06:002010-02-05T22:48:56.458-06:00In poker jargon, Althouse's justification for ...In poker jargon, Althouse's justification for her decision boils down to "it's better to be lucky than good."<br /><br />And I'm pretty sure Mick is on Axelrod's payroll. Best to ignore him.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05900300303751364008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74859224720573979502010-02-05T21:37:28.812-06:002010-02-05T21:37:28.812-06:00Pastafarian said...
"Hey, Mick, thanks for...Pastafarian said... <br /> "Hey, Mick, thanks for hijacking and shitting all over an otherwise interesting topic."<br /><br />Really? It's interesting to see Obama mocking the Constitution? Why do you think he doesn't say my Natural Born Citizenship? Hint-- He knows he doesn't qualify, but wants to give more life to the distraction of the BC. If I am wrong Prove it to me. What says that if you are simply born in the US you are eligible for POTUS?Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82012145177848218642010-02-05T21:28:43.455-06:002010-02-05T21:28:43.455-06:00Joe said,
"Funny that, she didn't isn&#...Joe said,<br /><br /><br />"Funny that, she didn't isn't it? Not really as "Natural Born Means" born in the US...it's the rule deployed by the Founders to ensure that Hamilton would not be POTUS, being born in the Bahama's."<br /><br />And of course you are wrong again Since Hamilton WAS a Citizen at the time of the ratification of the USC and was grandfathered in, so he could have been POTUS ( A2S1C5-- or a Citizen at the time...). As for Hillary, she made a deal to be Sec. of State. They all knew that neither McCain nor Obama was eligible. Now do you want to be wrong again?Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1709515793149545622010-02-05T19:59:57.798-06:002010-02-05T19:59:57.798-06:00(one of them at least)
I have read several talk ab...(one of them at least)<br />I have read several talk about how with McCain we avoid Obamaville, and with Obama, Obamaville is MORE likely...<br /> Well I simply say that had McCain won, we'd have about half of Obamaville, because Reid and Pelosi would have pushed hard for the Progressive Agenda and McCain, in order to go along, in order to "get things done" would have OK'd much of it...more than the Stimulus, Cap n'Trade, any number of things...and the GOP would have been handicapped in its ability to oppose them, because their POTUS would have been willing to compromise on these issues.<br /><br />Being in favour of HALF of the stimulus or in favour of HALF of Cap n'Trade, or HALF of Amnesty would have crippled the GOP's ability to oppose the REST of the agenda.<br /><br />McCain's loss made the opposition possible...it gives the Tea Party Movment a party to focus its efforts upon, like the Hippies found a home in the Democrats.<br /><br />So though I find Obama scary, I can't see the opposition to Progressivism being as potent had McCain won his election.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846399206688807076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26140648332078616762010-02-05T19:49:47.921-06:002010-02-05T19:49:47.921-06:00@c3
corollary:
Given enough time and comments all ...@c3<br /><i>corollary:<br />Given enough time and comments all liberal blog posts will eventually degenerate to a rant that it's all Bush's fault.</i><br /><br />Isn't this closer to the truth?<br /><br />"All liberal blog posts start with the mess we have inherited from Bush."JALhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15503869597362866878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80671247433833927932010-02-05T19:43:03.724-06:002010-02-05T19:43:03.724-06:00(one of the two)
Mick, simply put IF it was so obv...(one of the two)<br />Mick, simply put IF it was so obvious that your argument was correct, Hillary would ahve deployed it....<br /><br />Funny that, she didn't isn't it? Not really as "Natural Born Means" born in the US...it's the rule deployed by the Founders to ensure that Hamilton would not be POTUS, being born in the Bahama's.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846399206688807076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44272641669332014782010-02-05T19:41:10.617-06:002010-02-05T19:41:10.617-06:00Hey, Mick, thanks for hijacking and shitting all o...Hey, Mick, thanks for hijacking and shitting all over an otherwise interesting topic.Pastafarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008215139954260401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36811383962268796062010-02-05T18:40:34.300-06:002010-02-05T18:40:34.300-06:00Cederford said,
"Several candidates for Pres...Cederford said,<br /><br />"Several candidates for President were born to US citizens abroad."<br /><br />It is not against the law to run for POTUS and not be eligible. But they should be caught at either the State level or at the Electoral College, that's what the 20th Amendment is for-- "If the President Elect SHALL NOT HAVE QUALIFIED..." apparently I know a little more than you about the USC.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2378773459115319112010-02-05T18:37:19.076-06:002010-02-05T18:37:19.076-06:00Out of all you supposed Lawyers on here, you mean ...Out of all you supposed Lawyers on here, you mean there is not one of you that can go beyond "shut up", "You're and idiot", "you're wrong", etc and prove me wromg? You all must not be very good lawyers!Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69039670503000501522010-02-05T18:34:57.389-06:002010-02-05T18:34:57.389-06:00Edward said,
"Voted for Ron Paul."
He ...Edward said,<br /><br />"Voted for Ron Paul."<br /><br />He could have stopped Obama at the Electoral College, and been a real patriot. But alas the supposed "Constitutionalist" allowed the Usurpation. Therefore, no respect for him.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23114320214312891352010-02-05T18:32:30.087-06:002010-02-05T18:32:30.087-06:00To Cederford,
Oh yeah I guess one of the other VP...To Cederford,<br /><br />Oh yeah I guess one of the other VPs was Gore. He was born in American territory (District of Columbia) w/ in the Continent to 2 Citizen parents = Natural Born Citizen.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30855754804413065442010-02-05T18:31:30.107-06:002010-02-05T18:31:30.107-06:00Voted for Ron Paul.Voted for Ron Paul.Edwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01826896770654133935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74622460037927862152010-02-05T18:28:10.230-06:002010-02-05T18:28:10.230-06:00To Cederford,
By the way Curtis's mother was ...To Cederford,<br /><br />By the way Curtis's mother was automatically naturalized before Curtis was born by marraige to an Amercan Citizen as was the law then, so 2 citizens, born in American territory (Kansas wasn't a state yet, but was an American territory) = Natural Born CitizenMickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83102866213512847992010-02-05T18:15:46.206-06:002010-02-05T18:15:46.206-06:00Cederford said,
"Mick = Birther and armchair...Cederford said,<br /><br />"Mick = Birther and armchair constitutional lawyer.<br /><br />3 Presidents Arthur, Wilson, Hoover had one immigrant parent, and 4 VPs.<br />Several candidates for President were born to US citizens abroad.<br /><br />Birthers are nutty."<br /><br />Wilson and Hoover's parents were naturalized by treaties before the future POTUS's were born, thus they were NBCs. <br />Arthur was the only Usurper. He assumed the POTUS after assasination. Before the election it was widely thought that he was born in Canada, but he was actually born in Vt. No one knew, because of the BC controversy, much like today, that his father had never Naturalized. Arthur went great lengths to hide his family history, lying about his date of birth and burning all of his family papers before death. It has only recently been found that his father was not naturalized until Chester was 14. Fraud is not precedent.<br />Charles Curtis (VP) was part American Indian. Being a half breed, his mother lived across from the reservation, where he was born (not on the reservation).<br />What are the others so I can debunk them for you? Are you protecting the Usurper or the Constitution.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7960600185777042062010-02-05T18:00:02.675-06:002010-02-05T18:00:02.675-06:00C3 said,
"I think we've discovered a new...C3 said,<br /><br />"I think we've discovered a new blog rule/reality. <br />Given enough time and comments all conservative blog posts will eventually degenerate to an argument about Barack Obama's birth certificate."<br /><br />Another one that doesn't care about upholding the USC, and doesn't care that the POTUS has KNOWINGLY Usurped the office. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE BC, HIS FATHER WAS NEVER A CITIZEN, SO HE'S NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43310813201122459582010-02-05T17:56:02.822-06:002010-02-05T17:56:02.822-06:00Baghoh 20 said,
"Well, could you do it mor...Baghoh 20 said,<br /><br /> "Well, could you do it more quietly, please? While you're busy tilting at windmills, some of us have a country to save. Those destroying it, want to thank you for your help."<br /><br />Right The Kryptonite that can save us from Obama is in front of your face, but you won't use it (because you don't understand it?). You aren't saving anything.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24800768896369867952010-02-05T17:55:47.561-06:002010-02-05T17:55:47.561-06:00I think we've discovered a new blog rule/reali...I think we've discovered a new blog rule/reality. <br /><i>Given enough time and comments all conservative blog posts will eventually degenerate to an argument about Barack Obama's birth certificate.</i><br /><br />corollary:<br /><i>Given enough time and comments all liberal blog posts will eventually degenerate to a rant that it's all Bush's fault.</i>Phil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43318523995007918752010-02-05T17:51:47.712-06:002010-02-05T17:51:47.712-06:00Dust Bunny Queen said,
"Oh for crying out ...Dust Bunny Queen said,<br /><br /> "Oh for crying out loud. Give it up already on the birther crap.<br /><br />All it does is give fuel to the fire from the liberals that the people who oppose Obama are wackadoodles.<br /><br />YES YES YES...you can repeat the same Natural Born arguments until the cows come home.....but to use another barnyard analogy....the horse has already left that barn "<br /><br /><br />You still don't understand (I thought people would be smarter here). I am not a "Birther", and don't care if Obama was born in the White House. Amazingly you don't care abou the fact that he knowingly Usurped the Presidency.<br />What does that say abiout his character? It is not only about him, it is what comes after him. The requirement is a National Security measure. The founders of this country warned 200 years ago about foreign influence into our highest offices, and here it is coming true. Apparently you think you are smarter than them. Constitutional Relativist views like your are the death of the Republic. Quo Warranto can unseat him. Amazingly the Kryptonite that can stop the march towrd Maxism is available, but everyone is so politically correct and doesn't want to use it.Mickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02864660386925998491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32879620573431572662010-02-05T17:49:51.855-06:002010-02-05T17:49:51.855-06:00Pinkmonkeybird -
I know a number of conservatives...Pinkmonkeybird -<br /><br /><i>I know a number of conservatives who tell me they voted for Palin, not McCain.</i><br /><br />Yes, those being the stupider sort of conservatives that mirrored the stupider Democrats that voted for JOhn Edwards because he looked great, roused crowds with his speeches and threw red meat to the base.<br />As if Kerry or McCain had anything in mind for them except fundraising, attending funerals of the deputy President of Ecuador and miscellaneous photo ops to give the appearance that the President & staff were actually bothering to listen to the Veep.<br /><br />=================<br />Mick = Birther and armchair constitutional lawyer.<br /><br />3 Presidents Arthur, Wilson, Hoover had one immigrant parent, and 4 VPs.<br />Several candidates for President were born to US citizens abroad.<br /><br />Birthers are nutty.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.com