tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post4852691735224413257..comments2024-03-19T06:25:24.862-05:00Comments on Althouse: The Center for the Study of Liberal Democracy — at the University of Wisconsin — hosts Charles Murray at its "First Annual Disinvited Dinner."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64804380737154554442017-04-03T15:35:53.384-05:002017-04-03T15:35:53.384-05:00The wrong color. The [class] diversitists will abo...The wrong color. The [class] diversitists will abort him, and cannibalize him for spare parts, too.n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91286015725986585622017-04-03T15:34:20.299-05:002017-04-03T15:34:20.299-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41832367018080025682017-04-03T11:31:36.807-05:002017-04-03T11:31:36.807-05:00You really need an editor, Ms. Althouse.You really need an editor, Ms. Althouse.Skippy Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16045429067276168585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13257294853156792902017-04-03T10:49:34.464-05:002017-04-03T10:49:34.464-05:00"The CSLD’s Disinvited Dinner"
Virtue s..."The CSLD’s Disinvited Dinner"<br /><br />Virtue signalling. Of course we support free speech! We have an event planned. And will have another next year (probably). <br /><br />Of course those that were so visibly bad last time will be allowed to go their merry ways.....JAOREhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11819907966430540035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64666129455935224962017-04-03T10:46:49.798-05:002017-04-03T10:46:49.798-05:00 Michael, Michael K Fransico
Did it even cross yo... Michael, Michael K Fransico <br />Did it even cross your minds that the Bell Curve referred to in my question was not the book, but the actual Bell Curve? You know the graph that gets its name from its shape? Because it is shaped like a Bell Curve. Or was your snark just a sop to your insecurity over your intellectual shallowness? <br /><br />I read some of Shockley. but found him to be disingenuous, at the least. His statements in public did not match his presentation in the book. His public comments mirrored what Murray seems to be saying now. I have not read Murray, yet. Race based intelligence studies leave me bored. <br /><br />I do, however, have to thank you for proving me correct in allowing out and proud Nazis to expose themselves for what they truly are. Gojuplyr831@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01872064734600301505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82702157462416660862017-04-03T10:00:46.689-05:002017-04-03T10:00:46.689-05:00There were questions about the data Murray used at...There were questions about the data Murray used at the time the Bell Curve was written. It was intricate and as I have said I think that the new post Human Genome techniques which have revealed gen-X interactions make the whole question moot. Twin studies simply are not valid and without them there is nothing scientific in Murray's argument. <br /><br />Blacks came over in the bottom of ships and now they are at the bottom of society - mostly. We excluded them from our culture till the Sixties of the last century and they don't do well in the schools that teach the culture they were excluded from - mostly. It isn't scientific necessity that this be so. They do better in charter schools but the teacher's unions oppose these schools. <br /><br />Blacks were working in manufacturing in 1970 - 80% employment among the men - mostly married - but then the elite made bad trade deals and sold American manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China. Blacks were hit hardest. Another tragedy, another situation that is not a scientific necessity. Only Donald Trump proposes to even try to do something. But the Democrats are trying to sabotage his efforts. That isn't scientifically necessary either. wildswanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11975129877750876072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42462010714126447412017-04-03T09:42:36.985-05:002017-04-03T09:42:36.985-05:00It's true that Murray did not spend his whole ...It's true that Murray did not spend his whole book discussing race. He spent a great deal of time building the case that IQ has a measurable genetic component and that this component has been measured scientifically and that IQ is reason for success in economic life. That gave weight to his conclusion that the black average IQ is 85 and this is the reason the blacks are mostly at the bottom of society and that the problem cannot be solved by social engineering. So the conclusion reached was about race and IQ and it had social policy implications. And it was based on research by eugenic society members so one social policy was to increase funding for contraception and abortion and decrease welfare and affirmative action - the idea being that we are encouraging the wrong people to have children. <br /><br />He does discuss black-white differences at length; it's easier to see this in the Appendixes - see Appendix 5 p. 625-643 which discusses the theories of JP Rushton and their scientific basis; Appendix 6 provides data on socio-economic status and IQ for White, Black,Latino 645-653; Appendix 7 Evolution of Affirmative Action in the workplace p. 655-663. That's 40 pages of data on race.wildswanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11975129877750876072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8693917946522494332017-04-03T09:08:01.211-05:002017-04-03T09:08:01.211-05:00Matthew Sablan said...
"The "Center for ...<i>Matthew Sablan said...<br />"The "Center for the Study of Liberal Democracy" had better have a fucking army of security."<br /><br />-- Only if they'll actually secure the place. Recent evidence says that paying for security, a la Berkley, may just be a waste of money.</i><br /><br />UW's highlighting of the free speech rights beforehand shows they have a commitment that was lacking in other venues. It's not hard to stop this nonsense, you just have to want to. The longer term question is whether this is something UW is creating for show or have they come to realize how dangerous and destructive campus radicals have become. My money's on just for show. Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09159859859522615418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2427129854286341022017-04-03T08:00:57.030-05:002017-04-03T08:00:57.030-05:00"Those who protest Murray (and other conserva..."Those who protest Murray (and other conservatives) have about as much interest in debate as the firemen in Fahrenheit 451."<br /><br />-- Don't Beatty and Montag have a fairly famous debate right before Montag burns him up? Though, maybe it is more of Beatty doing a villainous monologue. Been awhile since I read it.Matt Sablanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15885240752820005149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59926555086680558932017-04-03T07:57:54.337-05:002017-04-03T07:57:54.337-05:00"The "Center for the Study of Liberal De..."The "Center for the Study of Liberal Democracy" had better have a fucking army of security."<br /><br />-- Only if they'll actually secure the place. Recent evidence says that paying for security, a la Berkley, may just be a waste of money.Matt Sablanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15885240752820005149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40497395080790355552017-04-03T07:55:42.413-05:002017-04-03T07:55:42.413-05:00Will: thanks for info on Notre Dame's experien...Will: thanks for info on Notre Dame's experience. Yes, of *course* the media want to cover the most outrageous events: bleeds = leads. It is important therefore to collect and share templates of positive behavior and data about events where the most remarkable thing is that nothing remarkable happens.<br /><br />I know the Left needs enemies but picking on Murray was unwise. He can defend himself and does: his deconstruction of the SPLC profile of him is a must-read. Why he doesn't sue for defamation is a wonderment.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08376749487613936205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70259459925233111162017-04-03T07:54:38.124-05:002017-04-03T07:54:38.124-05:00"It's an odd situation to be asked to sit..."It's an odd situation to be asked to sit through a lecture by someone BECAUSE he's been obstructed elsewhere."<br /><br />-- I agree; there's a distinction between giving someone who was silenced a chance to talk, and forcing people to listen.Matt Sablanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15885240752820005149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91822954814141600522017-04-03T07:47:09.938-05:002017-04-03T07:47:09.938-05:00"Only that they shouldn't use their own s..."Only that they shouldn't use their own speech and action to obstruct the people who do want to hear him."<br /><br />-- It is sad we've moved from a heckler's veto to a rioter's veto.Matt Sablanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15885240752820005149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85728102301685195122017-04-03T07:08:18.882-05:002017-04-03T07:08:18.882-05:00Charles Murray spoke last week without incident at...Charles Murray spoke last week without incident at the University of Notre Dame.<br /><br />Notre Dame took care to set up a better structure than this proposed Wisconsin lecture. Murray was invited by a professor whose class was reading his work (and the class had invited the opposite/contrasting viewpoint's author last year). Having Murray lecture to an informed audience addressed Ann's first recommendation.<br /><br />There were protesters, but they were held outside a permimeter, unlike at Middlebury where they were allowed to take over and intimidate the actual lecture hall. The buffer let the protesters assert their views while leaving the audience free from the problems at Middlebury.<br /><br />Since Murray was invited for a class, there was no admission fee, and thus no conflict over whether the fee did or did not express implicit support.<br /><br />Here is a statement and an interview from the professor who invited Murray. I urge you to read and listen to these. Interestingly, this professor leads the Constitutional Studies program at Notre Dame:<br /><br />1) http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/03/22/why_i_invited_charles_murray_to_speak_at_notre_dame_133401.html <br />2) http://video.foxnews.com/v/5372142130001 <br /><br /><br />And here is news coverage of the protests and the event --<br /><br />1) http://college.usatoday.com/2017/03/28/student-protests-follow-charles-murray-to-notre-dame/ <br />2) http://ndsmcobserver.com/2017/03/students-protest-charles-murray/<br />3) http://ndsmcobserver.com/2017/03/charles-murrays-visit-notre-dame/ <br /><br /><br />One of the articles said Murray has also spoken at other campuses since Middlebury. Perhaps the media is focusing only on the most extreme and outrageous responses. This is why I think it is important to provide the contrasts above. <br /><br />This is an example of how things should be run on a campus and provides a great contrast to Middlebury's shameful behavior. . Ann's recommendations are good and Notre Dame structured this educational opportunity in ways that addressed them. I encourage other colleges to learn from Ann and Notre Dame!Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11136257757561409957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61585762846683292032017-04-03T06:56:53.776-05:002017-04-03T06:56:53.776-05:00That Goffman quote is interestingly weird. It does...That Goffman quote is interestingly weird. It doesn't seem right at all and I was annoyed at having to translate it into English. Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62712643669068960862017-04-03T06:54:10.726-05:002017-04-03T06:54:10.726-05:00"So..how are they determining who to invite? ..."So..how are they determining who to invite? I guess I can't be disinvited if not invited to begin with..."<br /><br />Yes, it's funny for the dinner to make a thing out of disinvitedness and then say you've got to be invited to attend. Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34833077943730605352017-04-03T06:52:12.990-05:002017-04-03T06:52:12.990-05:00I've looked at Murray's data. It looks pre...I've looked at Murray's data. It looks pretty credible. I think the big reason for hysteria is that the slaveholder left does not want it examined deeper. Yes, there is a difference in racial populations but I think their problem is that the differences illustrated do not come close to explaining the actual disparity in life experiences. <br /><br />It also amuses me that the same people who will get hysterical at any kind of questioning of the Theory of Evolution, like to pretend it doesn't apply to humans when the evidence is overwhelming. GRW3https://www.blogger.com/profile/02631663226638108853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68852044747543100992017-04-03T06:50:01.810-05:002017-04-03T06:50:01.810-05:00"If by elite circle you mean serious scholars..."If by elite circle you mean serious scholars with real data, then yes he's part of an elite circle. I am surprised you would implicitly count yourself outside it."<br /><br />I'm surprised there's a purple elephant outside my window right now.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34627690590160019392017-04-03T06:21:55.340-05:002017-04-03T06:21:55.340-05:00Buwaya: great comments. I agree with your point a...Buwaya: great comments. I agree with your point about Solzhenitsyn. I remember eating up his books from "Ivan Denisovitch" onward through "Gulag Archipelago," and yet when he came to the U.S. and criticized its mindless consumerism I was shocked. That's because I had not really understood either him or the culture. Eventually I did; a little, anyway. A very great man.Owenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08376749487613936205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26109486508415805712017-04-03T05:58:23.468-05:002017-04-03T05:58:23.468-05:00"Use words. Good words. If you can't thin..."Use words. Good words. If you can't think of any, reread point #2 and consider doing nothing."<br /><br />Kind of sad, Ann. When you have to remind so called adults not to act like children. <br /><br />But then TTR shows up and proves your point.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41128733840980301932017-04-03T00:35:35.530-05:002017-04-03T00:35:35.530-05:00The Toothless Revolutionary said...
I prefer havin...The Toothless Revolutionary said...<br /><b>I prefer having you summarize it to me.</b><br /><br />You realize that in that situation you would have to accept his summary or admit to discussing in bad faith right?<br /><br /><b>I want to keep an open mind about this, but let's not pretend some things aren't a bridge too far. Will Althouse defend inviting Sarah Palin in that forum with an exposition of her book "Going Rogue?"</b><br /><br />Not sure what your hatred for Palin revolves around. Her single accomplishment as Governor was to side with democrats in the Alaskan legislature against republicans and the oil lobby to secure a better deal for Alaskan citizens. After she was driven out by leftist lawfare they quickly trashed that deal and went right back to the crony status quo.<br /><br /><b>Maybe that would fit the objective. If it's political, and it's conservative, then it's intellectually valuable, right?</b><br /><br />You are really stuck on trying to rule things out of bounds and declaring things not valuable. Do you really think Hillary Clinton would have been a better president than Sarah Palin? Look at what they actually did and not what a bunch of leftists said about them.<br /><br />The truly instructive thing in all of this is the bald prejudice the left shows on cultural issues. Anyone who doesn't live like them and make the same decisions as they do in the US is a stupid hick. There are some stupid hicks and there are some very smart hicks. There are a lot of truly stupid people in the urban culture too. I live in the city and hang around coders. There are many different ways to be smart and ways to be stupid. I have been on college campuses long enough to see mountains of stupidity. <br /><br />Calling everyone who is different than you is one way to be stupid.Achilleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04109507896997459818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15035822803963627302017-04-03T00:21:32.438-05:002017-04-03T00:21:32.438-05:00The Toothless Revolutionary said...
The "libe...The Toothless Revolutionary said...<br />The "liberal arts" are a wasteland. <br /><br /><b>The whole industry is decadent beyond redemption. Its time for a whole new technology and a whole new system.<br /><br />Very good. Nazis thought so, too. </b><br /><br />Socialists/communists in general thought so, too.Achilleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04109507896997459818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27475584384947005312017-04-03T00:05:20.708-05:002017-04-03T00:05:20.708-05:00So also does Salman Khan (Khan Academy).
Its quite...So also does Salman Khan (Khan Academy).<br />Its quite telling just how much the existing school systems depend on this and similar providers even now. <br />The replacement for the current system is coming together. Its not all here yet, but we can see the outlines of the overthrow of the existing system. <br /><br />Also, if one cares to listen to actual Asians, one has to consider competition from abroad. The graduates of, say, the IIT system have a certain attitude vs US universities, very similar to mine. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388691837737324814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57880766942435322522017-04-02T23:58:25.572-05:002017-04-02T23:58:25.572-05:00Im sorry to say, Ritmo, that sometimes one must su...Im sorry to say, Ritmo, that sometimes one must suffer to gain depth. It is through the deep immersion in the facts that one can extract a valuable insight, and perspective. The true value of these short conversations is in the hint, the glimpse, of worlds beyond your experience, and paths to reach them. <br />Hence Murray. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388691837737324814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7871000944553853412017-04-02T23:57:50.346-05:002017-04-02T23:57:50.346-05:00The "liberal arts" are a wasteland.
Th...<i>The "liberal arts" are a wasteland. <br /><br />The whole industry is decadent beyond redemption. Its time for a whole new technology and a whole new system.</i><br /><br />Very good. Nazis thought so, too. <br /><br /><br />Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.com