tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post4738905124123585142..comments2024-03-19T05:50:55.970-05:00Comments on Althouse: Why Apple took its jobs overseas and — as Steve Jobs told Barack Obama — "Those jobs aren’t coming back."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger180125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78026204322350211192012-02-01T01:38:10.102-06:002012-02-01T01:38:10.102-06:00Good one. I respect your blog.
information about ...Good one. I respect your blog.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.infoineed.com/money/savings/personal-savings-what-the-numbers-mean" rel="nofollow">information about savings</a>Discount CAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12653382420164690350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87485293001426909952012-01-23T16:48:33.303-06:002012-01-23T16:48:33.303-06:00Alex said...
"...why is Apple responsible fo...Alex said...<br /><br />"...why is Apple responsible for Chinese labor policy? Apple is just an innocent customer of Foxconn."<br /><br />Apple is not responsible for Chinese labor policy, but it is hardly innocent. If Silicon Valley outfits like Apple were not constantly shilling for leftist social policies, thereby making American labor less competitive, I'd be more willing to consider them innocent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79453863459650648682012-01-23T14:46:33.825-06:002012-01-23T14:46:33.825-06:00Once Jobs accepted he wasn't an industrial or ...Once Jobs accepted he wasn't an industrial or manufacturing engineer and left that aspect to the experts Apple quality really took off. Jobs was a UX design genius and had a talent for picking the right experts(Ive, Cook, Forstall).Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11205752419540502278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47388434607253050212012-01-23T14:33:07.962-06:002012-01-23T14:33:07.962-06:00Just to be clear for the historical record. NeXT f...Just to be clear for the historical record. NeXT failed for several reasons, however it didn't help that the physical quality of the computers was terrible. They had extremely high return rates. A friend of a younger brother had to return his NeXT three times due to hardware failure--he actually spent less time using it than he did waiting for it to be repaired and replaced (in the end, I think he just gave up.)<br /><br />Jobs' ideas about factories and assembly contributed greatly to the NeXT and early Mac failure rate.<br /><br />(Due largely to Jobs obsession with design over engineering and against fans--a laudable, but not always realistic thing to have--both the Mac and NeXT were plagued with power supply and heat problems. To this day, the biggest consistent problem with Apple products are power related.)Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89617824421267280202012-01-23T13:23:30.445-06:002012-01-23T13:23:30.445-06:00Yes, Alpha Libtard. It's so awful that hundred...Yes, Alpha Libtard. It's so awful that hundreds of millions of Chinese have moved from their subsistence farming villages inland to the city in hope of landing one of these factory jobs.<br /><br />Thanks to the free market reforms, China has, from 1979 to the present, managed the most rapid and dramatic decrease in poverty in the history of the fucking planet.<br /><br />And you want to fuck that up so 220 million "floating population" can pack up and head back to their Mao villages in the west and near starvation. <br /><br />Is there no end to your stupidity?Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16517956537865658903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58885758791834594202012-01-23T13:16:24.414-06:002012-01-23T13:16:24.414-06:00I went to the Gibson guitar company's web page...I went to the Gibson guitar company's web page a few weeks ago. They were advertising for an experienced senior level project manager with extensive manufacturing experience for a new posting in China. <br /><br />Just saying, libtards.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16517956537865658903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51022420035633035232012-01-23T13:15:55.498-06:002012-01-23T13:15:55.498-06:00Alpha - why is Apple responsible for Chinese labor...Alpha - why is Apple responsible for Chinese labor policy? Apple is just an innocent customer of Foxconn.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11205752419540502278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69742559170423412612012-01-23T13:12:42.475-06:002012-01-23T13:12:42.475-06:00Apple and Steve Jobs are exploiting these workers ...Apple and Steve Jobs are exploiting these workers and supporting the brutal living conditions that have led to suicides. The dorms now have nets to prevent suicide by jumping. Those workers also have restrictions on their ability to interact with people, leave the compound, etc. <br /><br />It's damn near slavery. <br /><br />It's appalling and reflects on the values of Apple - The Almighty Buck before simple human decency.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28017523709432520212012-01-23T12:47:20.013-06:002012-01-23T12:47:20.013-06:00Up until a few months ago, I worked for a company ...Up until a few months ago, I worked for a company that had manufacturing facilities near Shanghai. I took a few trips last year to the factories (dorm factories smaller than Foxconn, but similar). Here are a few thoughts;<br /><br />1- Confusing what happens in those Chinese factories with slavery is insane. It isn't slavery; the people there want the jobs because they want paychecks. The living conditions in our dorms was better than the living conditions in the barracks when I was in basic and the food is better, too.<br /><br />2- While the cost of employing folks is cheaper, as noted above, part of the plus is in not having to deal with some of the red tape and overhead of having American employees. Those hassles are, mostly, gone.<br /><br />3- Another part of what is great about it is that things happen fast in China. Once you're up and running, making changes becomes pretty easy. On my first visit, it was decided that we needed new office space to house Americans who were coming over with more regularity. On my next visit, just over a month and a half later, that space was built and was being furnished. Things happen fast partially because there is kind of an old west, anarchic feel to business-- the government is bureaucratic and often slow, but daily business is much more direct and pragmatic.<br /><br />4- There are trade-offs, of course. Everything from language issues to the fact that the work force in the dorms is invariably less educated than what you would find in the US. With proper oversight and investment, though, quality is good, the costs are reasonable, and it's easier to do business.<br /><br />5- One thing I find intriguing relates to something said above. Someone noted that China isn't Japan-- that's both right and wrong.<br /><br />Japan was dinged for quality, for stealing designs and engineering, and it was thought that they would never be able to compete with American counterparts. When I was a kid, their cars were low cost alternatives to what was considered to be better American alternatives. It didn't stay that way.<br /><br />China is hit for the same things, but, for example, the Foxconn factories turn out exceptionally high quality, premium goods at reasonable prices. Not only did the company I worked for manufacture in China, but all of the biggest players in our industry manufactured there or were planning manufacturing there. Don't discount China's ability to compete.<br /><br />There are issues, of course. China may not yet be Japan; they're working hard to get there, though.Zombyboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10762590790772416885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58726763964261246892012-01-23T12:45:14.441-06:002012-01-23T12:45:14.441-06:00The writer and editors make a fundamental mistake ...The writer and editors make a fundamental mistake of economics with this article -- namely that a factory production job equals a middle-class lifestyle. In today's modern world, a middle class lifestyle is produced by having a middle class ability to produce. A factory worker no longer is productive enough for a middle class lifestyle. In the "benighted" 1950's, with the US advantage of having the only factories and homeland that was not war-torn, a relatively uneducated worker could achieve a middle class lifestyle from work at a factory that was learned on the job. It should be noted that family farms could do the same thing in the early 1900s -- produce enough to support a decent level of living. As modern equipment shifted farming away from small farms, factory equipment moved beyond assembly-line working. Any still existing assebly worker does not make a good wage in the U.S. because either foreign competition will do it for pennnies per hour, or a machine will replace several workers and need only one supervising "factory worker". I don't think that $12 per hour with little benefits at a typical new "factory" is a middle class lifestyle. Even less so when one factors in the lack of stability as these jobs frequently move.<br /><br />Today's US need is for skilled labor who can work the complex machines in modern production, not buildings of workers who are quickly trained, little paid, and easily replaced.justaguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08979194865150656425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78228191336669418512012-01-23T12:28:31.502-06:002012-01-23T12:28:31.502-06:00These people aren't treated that well. On the...These people aren't treated that well. On the other hand, if the alternative is being jobless and starving and eventually dead... The US has a lot of poor unemployed people that could be taking the jobs that were formerly held by illegal immigrants, but they aren't. They could learn something from these "slaves."Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03809649225884174558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52710883371443911062012-01-23T11:27:08.726-06:002012-01-23T11:27:08.726-06:00"You're a pompous shit, David. Live with ..."You're a pompous shit, David. Live with it. "<br /><br />Better than being the Pompatus of Slavery then YH.<br /><br />Seriously. You're arguing that slaves in the Old South had it good? You're really going to try and make that argument? You're going to, figuratively, die on -that- hill?<br /><br />Morality requires wealth because morality requires choices. Wealth gives you choices. No wealth, no choices. You get wealth by working, saving and investing. Or by robbing, stealing and looting. Generally I'd have to suggest the former is more effective over the long term than the latter but either way a guy with a gun and a bag of gold has more options than a guy with pitchfork and a stable full of pigshit.<br /><br />History is replete with examples of bad working conditions. Again better working conditions is a result of wealth. If you want to see a situation worse than what's going on in China then look at the Russian industrialization prior to the October Revolution. Or serfdom under the Tzar.<br /><br />But speaking solely for myself; so far your arguments haven't impressed me. And the whole squealing thing about how you're not being taken seriously.<br /><br />You're boring me.edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11554432958239793555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60212989522128892332012-01-23T10:40:29.077-06:002012-01-23T10:40:29.077-06:005) Sending your work to China also means sending y...<i>5) Sending your work to China also means sending your HR headaches, your compliance headaches, etc. Reduce those in the USA and the equation will be different.</i><br /><br /><br />+1. An awful lot of the disparity in labor cost between China and the USA is all the regulatory bullshit that you can ignore by outsourcing to a Chinese subcontractor.<br /><br />Fact is, through our legislators we have 'erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance': NLRB, EEOC, OSHA, EPA, FTC, FERC, etc. We did this to ourselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63313558405000276812012-01-23T10:00:46.471-06:002012-01-23T10:00:46.471-06:00Was the real incentive a biscuit? Or was it a jail...Was the real incentive a biscuit? Or was it a jail cell? And what is an American company doing hiring that kind of labor? What would Al Sharpton say?Willyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13155261760383003289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27958866680439174522012-01-23T09:26:58.967-06:002012-01-23T09:26:58.967-06:00I did not read the article, but I can add some dat...I did not read the article, but I can add some data:<br /><br />1) Foxconn is moving factories farther inland to get cheaper labor rates. The coastal areas are now more expensive.<br /><br />2) Foxconn is investing in assembly robots - probably they figure they don't want to move to Bangladesh for even lower wages (Company is Taiwanese and thus speaks Chinese, etc.)<br /><br />3) Chinese wage increases have been relentless. Minimum wage going up 15% in just a few days now...gulp.<br /><br />4) Keep in mind the subsidies and undervalued yuan help too.<br /><br />5) Sending your work to China also means sending your HR headaches, your compliance headaches, etc. Reduce those in the USA and the equation will be different.<br /><br />5)a Foxconn's new factories don't have dorms, or at least they are trying to not have dorms. Managing workers private lives is not fun, and this phase of China may be coming to an end, when factories move inland, they are moving to migrants not the other way around. Let's see Foxconn rouse workers who are at their homes asleep.<br /><br />6) China's demographics means the workers are getting older. Its easy to rouse 18-24 year olds to do this stuff. Try it with 40 years olds. And try it when they get overtime. Only Apple and a few other mega companies can afford these actions. When labor gets too costly, they will have trouble.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04438466605029568462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48245192132331853232012-01-23T09:08:54.590-06:002012-01-23T09:08:54.590-06:00Is it just me, or are the hard core Lefty commente...Is it just me, or are the hard core Lefty commenters being really, really cultural supremacists? I mean, why rank on the ancient Chinese culture? Aren't all cultures of equal value?<br /><br />Why are they trying to impose their cultures on the Chinese?<br /><br />Surely they're not actually trying to argue the moral [or other] superiority of their preferred culture.<br /><br />And as for life-expentancy, how has that turned out for Russia? I think the average male life expectancy there now is around 55. Is that what good old Communism improves things to?<br /><br />Finally, watching yh flail as his pompous idiocy gets beaten from pillar to post has made my day.JorgXMcKiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509568525555189690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33842049636131018072012-01-23T09:01:19.161-06:002012-01-23T09:01:19.161-06:00Robots can't compete with an army backed by a ...Robots can't compete with an army backed by a vision.<br /><br /><br /><br />Actually, they can.<br />Modern CNC-Computer Numerically Controlled machinery came about as a direct result of overpriced labor. CNC machines are just machine specific robots.<br />With the advent of 3D printing eventually a lot of machining and assembly will be redundant. 10 or 15 years ago MIT was already experimenting with 3D printing of metal parts. <br /> It isn't really much of a step to get robots to do complex assembly of electronic parts. In companies willing to spend the money, it's aready being done,Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58614258745855085452012-01-23T08:50:31.063-06:002012-01-23T08:50:31.063-06:00I have read Klotkin's book. It's a good ge...I have read Klotkin's book. It's a good general survey, but you are reading too much into his book on the lifespan issues. There was variation, and under some conditions slaves had similar mortality experiences as white master families. But more detailed studies of specific areas and plantations have discredited the general notion that you cite.<br /><br /><br />Yep.<br />In some counties in the south whites were a minority by as much as ten to one slaves to whites. How do you control such a population? The whip?<br />No. You treat them as family. As the children. You treat them fairly.<br />Many of the pictures you see in textbooks of savagely punished slaves are really pictures of slaves in the Belgian Congo.<br />Slaves that misbehaved in the south were threatened with being sold to a sugar plantation in the Carribean.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30997776284519819862012-01-23T08:34:01.870-06:002012-01-23T08:34:01.870-06:00It's not slave labor, but it's close-
Chi...It's not slave labor, but it's close-<br /><br />Chinese workers living in dormitories, who can be rousted in the middle of the night? Sounds grotesque.<br /><br />Credit the American labor movement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88399469662000883382012-01-23T08:28:20.733-06:002012-01-23T08:28:20.733-06:00Americans are living in dorms to work jobs now. It...Americans are living in dorms to work jobs now. It's in the Dakota oil fields. It's done for the same reason the Chinese put up with it. People will do things like that for a good paying job. <br /><br />And to the Indian guy: I've done a lot of call center work in the US. People yelling at you is part of the job. What you call racism is folks frustrated by workers reading scripts in an accent too thick to be understood. If people knew where the support centers were located, they'd make different choices when buying a computer. FYI, Apple support seems very good.Terihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13382050215676302342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87729221562344998982012-01-23T08:18:37.105-06:002012-01-23T08:18:37.105-06:00We are already suffering a decline in our standard...We are already suffering a decline in our standard of living, and it will continue.<br /><br /><br /><br />I thought it was bad to live large?<br /><br />Can't have it both ways, Cookie.<br /><br />Either we're no better than the rest of the world, therefore we must live like the rest of the world, or we are better and will live better.<br /><br />The rubber is starting to meet the road.Seeing Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00338495289040972548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7807527282137540512012-01-23T07:43:39.088-06:002012-01-23T07:43:39.088-06:00Robert Cook said...
We are already suffering a d...<i>Robert Cook said... <br /><br />We are already suffering a decline in our standard of living, and it will continue.<br /></i><br /><br />By which measure?<br /><br />I realize it is a goal for you commies to drag everyone down and Obama is doing his best to do so, but I'd love to see you provide us some data on this.Brian Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01772632205321099314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19753693711756374322012-01-23T02:51:50.604-06:002012-01-23T02:51:50.604-06:00"I'm not sure your moral stance is as cle..."<i>I'm not sure your moral stance is as clear-cut as you think it is. </i>"<br /><br />I was about to say you were being too kind, that in fact it's <i>certain</i> that Jennifer's moral stance isn't clear-cut... but fortunately I re-read her comment before doing so. Now maybe it's just my poor reading skills, but I don't see a claim of moral superiority anywhere in her comment, but merely the assertion that there is a class of customers (of a size greater than zero) who really do buy her stuff.<br /><br />Jennifer, can you clarify?Kirk Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921711310191924997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54463167821843020572012-01-23T00:54:47.357-06:002012-01-23T00:54:47.357-06:00My Brother-in-law
Jeez, I need to take a piss. I...My Brother-in-law<br /><br /><i>Jeez, I need to take a piss. I wish the cars wouldn't drive so early at 5:00 AM! Glad I don't eat so much, I hate taking a crap. I finally got to sleep early yesterday after coming down from 3 days of meth. I ran out of money, again. Why do they only give us $700.00 a month in SDI? WTF.<br /><br />Well, the lap band I got was working pretty well before, thanks to SDI, and I lost a hundred pounds, but this Meth has really dropped the weight. Dammit, my skin is hanging down to my thighs. There's free food down the road, but meth is closer by, and why bother with food. Plus, I can hang out and beg for money all the time. Look sad enough, and someone is ready to feel like they are a good person by giving me money.<br /><br />I used to like alcohol, but meth is better. Shit, it nearly killed me a few months ago. Ran my truck off the road, nearly killed my dog. Gave the fucking dog to my asshole rich brother in law. <br /><br />I'll shoot meth, and really, I can't believe how many chicks I'm getting. Really! More than ever before.<br /><br />I hate the guys who stole my shit out of my tent. And my fucking rich brother in law who won't give me any of his fucking money anymore. Yeah, he gave me a car, money, but what an asshole. He sends his kids to private school. What an asshole loser.<br /><br />What the fuck do I need. I need to take a shit, I go to the gas station. They hate me, but they can't tell me no. Fuckers. OK, I'm an asshole. I fucked up. I had chances, but I got fucked over by life. And who gives a shit. Why do I only get $700.00 in Social Security Disability? My life sucks. It's sucked more than everyone else, and I deserve more. I had a fucked up life. And it has always sucked. And there has always been someone to take care of me, but my mom is 85, living on Section 8 housing. I used to be scared she would die, but thank god for SDI. She owes too much money, but at least she used to give me money before my bitch sister ran me out of the house. And I know that bitch is stealing from my mom. She took the big bedroom, that fucking cunt. She has the best room, leaving my mom in a small room. Fucking restraining orders. Fucking sister.<br /><br />Living on the streets isn't so bad. Shit, there are drugs. Not enough money to buy them. And standing on the corner gets old. But then there are all the women sleeping with me. More than I ever had before. All it takes is a little meth.</i><br /><br />A True Story.<br /><br />What's better, this or China?Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77944404330369301012012-01-23T00:34:50.839-06:002012-01-23T00:34:50.839-06:00For the most part, this is how it is in China. You...For the most part, this is how it is in China. You work, your employer provides housing, and may even give you the option to buy. University campuses are small towns full of retirees who bought their apartment from the uni. The question is, are American companies prepared to build or buy and rent housing to workers, with an option to buy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com