tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post4737054705505914617..comments2024-03-28T14:02:48.756-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Have the Ivy League charlatans drop back to the follow-up car. We've got an election coming up. The whole point is for me to be accessible to the people."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81525867250328578302021-01-20T13:53:45.459-06:002021-01-20T13:53:45.459-06:00Anonymous Anonymous said...
I don't understand...Anonymous Anonymous said...<br />I don't understand the reference to "Ivy League charlatans." That's how he refers to his Secret Service agents? It seems like there must be some kind of joke in there somewhere, but I don't get it.<br />One of the things that has occurred to me is that the secret service agents used to dress up good enough that you would think that maybe they could have passed as some avant-guarde fashioned academics in a crowd, and if maybe they ever did so then the phenomenon would seem to resemble their usual practice of looking out for known kooks like the sort who would have gotten on their list from sending in threatening letters? If so, then people like me would tend to think that probably a President Kennedy would think that such an imposture would be getting carried too far from if they ALSO got high enough on the limousine to look like his running mates?Patriot23https://www.blogger.com/profile/18292017142927919016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68379429167029043762010-11-23T01:21:49.954-06:002010-11-23T01:21:49.954-06:00That angry mob! TV was covering everything it coul...That angry mob! TV was covering everything it could about the mourning process, including having cameras pan over the long line of citizens waiting to view JFK's casket. When it was announced that Oswald had been killed, a primordial roar went up from the mourners in line; My impression was that they all approved of Ruby's killing Oswald.<br /><br />Our world changed November 22nd and probably not for the better. But then we lost so much more in Memphis then in LA 5-years later.<br /><br />So, no more of this political killing, it doesn't solve anything and only brings more harm to everyone.1775OGGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14855909337030182350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85432452184284611092010-11-22T23:47:50.890-06:002010-11-22T23:47:50.890-06:00One factor in the conspiracy theories is that the ...One factor in the conspiracy theories is that the Warren Commission screwed the pooch in so many ways, not doing their homework and ignoring so many apparent factors in the assassination of JFK. This poor effort by the commission allowed nut cases like Mark Lane(Not certain if he's the one) and that prosecutor from NOLA sell their conspiracy ideas.<br /><br />But, then the government was investigating itself and LBJ and others before him allowed Hoover to run the FBI as his independent agency.<br /><br />So much was covered up that didn't have to be and so many mistakes like not protecting Oswald from the angry mob. Some of the missing evidence is gone forever all because of a true rush to judgement.<br /><br />Cheers.1775OGGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14855909337030182350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31830249004260618292010-11-22T23:12:11.850-06:002010-11-22T23:12:11.850-06:00I concede Kansas City's point here. I have re...I concede Kansas City's point here. I have read several of the conspiracy books, and the best ones do, I think, an excellent job of challenging the Warren Commission view. It's a lot harder to make a convincing case in favor of one of the possible conspiracies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64585341932796703052010-11-22T22:28:36.587-06:002010-11-22T22:28:36.587-06:00You see, Giant Peach makes very intelligent observ...You see, Giant Peach makes very intelligent observations about a possible conspiracy, focusing on the bizarre fact that Oswald allegedly traveled to the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City and some odd losses of taped conversations. In particular, the trip to Mexico City was bizarre and unlikely, but possible as part of the long shot version of events. This was a guy who had previously defected to Russia.<br /><br />On the other hand, Peach's smart observations about this evidence fall far short of proving an alrnative account of what actually happened.<br /><br />So to me, it is like I said. The official story is highly unlikely but possible, and there is no proof of an alternative story. In legal terms, if ther burden of proof is on the official story, it probably loses, but if the burden of proof is on the conspiracy theorists, they probably also lose.Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5053302195045145422010-11-22T22:16:56.076-06:002010-11-22T22:16:56.076-06:00Obviously Kennedy and the assassination have been ...Obviously Kennedy and the assassination have been on my mind a lot today. I think one of the reasons why the assassination will always fascinate people is that there will always be a mystery as to what really happened on Dealey Plaza. As far as I know, there's no controversy about the McKinley assassination.<br /><br />I think there was a conspiracy. Johnson spoke on November 23 with J. Edgar Hoover. There are notes of the conversation, which was also taped, although the tape has been erased. (You can listen to tapes of Johnson's other conversations that day, which have not been erased.)<br /><br />Oswald went to the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City some weeks before the assassination, apparently trying to redefect. The United States had bugs on the embassies, and recorded Oswald's conversations (tapes which were destroyed). Hoover told Johnson on November 23 that the voice on the tape was not Oswald's. That's pretty remarkable. Someone was impersonating Oswald weeks before the assassination, when nobody knew who Oswald was. I can't think of any reason for that. To my mind, it points to a conspiracy, and I think Hoover and Johnson knew, on the day after the assassination, that Oswald wasn't acting alone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77406213478820258322010-11-22T22:04:31.038-06:002010-11-22T22:04:31.038-06:00Kansas City -- Kennedy probably would have been re...Kansas City -- Kennedy probably would have been re-elected in 64, then an epic Johnson/Nixon battle in 68.<br /><br />I think not. I think if Johnson didn't become President in November 1963, his political career would soon have ended. There were two pretty big scandals about to break, one involving Bobby Baker and another involving Billy Sol Estes, and I don't see how Johnson could have survived politically. Kennedy would certainly have dropped him from the ticket in 64.<br /><br />As it happened, I think the scandals were downplayed because the country didn't have the stomach for an impeachment the year after an assassination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64174197794417567572010-11-22T21:51:26.008-06:002010-11-22T21:51:26.008-06:00My thinking about how November 22 changed America ...My thinking about how November 22 changed America has been completely reversed in the last 8 years or so. I recall meeting a young man who was researching a book that was ostensibly to be written by Senator Toricelli on 10 Days that Changed America. I don't know if the book ever appeared, but it got me involved in a discussion of what the 10 days should be.<br /><br />At the time, I argued that November 22 didn't belong on the last. As sad and dramatic an event as it was, the Kennedy assassination didn't change America, I thought at the time, because Johnson for the most part had the same policies as Kennedy.<br /><br />Since then, I've come to believe just the opposite. I think that the experience of going to the brink in the Cuban Missile Crisis had turned Kennedy from a Cold Warrior to a President who would have pursued some sort of detente with Khrushchev. They were engaged in a private correspondence exploring just that at the time of Kennedy's death.<br /><br /> Shortly before his assassination, Kennedy had written a directive to begin withdrawing troops from Vietnam. It now seems very unlikely to me that Kennedy would have escalated the war the way Johnson did. And without Vietnam, everything would have been different. I now can't think of a day that more profoundly changed America than November 22Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8114194688977269862010-11-22T21:29:21.049-06:002010-11-22T21:29:21.049-06:00I thought about suggesting he would have won in Vi...I thought about suggesting he would have won in Vietnam, but I think his baby steps prior to the assasination show that he probably would not have done what was necessary to win. Certainly his fans and folks he knew him best argue that he would have pulled out, but of course, they are influenced by subsequent events and the liberal mindset that it was a huge mistake.Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30377584081168082692010-11-22T21:03:39.774-06:002010-11-22T21:03:39.774-06:00For those who pose the counterfactual that Kennedy...For those who pose the counterfactual that Kennedy would have pulled out sooner in Viet Nam, I'll pose another one: He might have won it. McNamara and Westmoreland might have been fired early on. The media might have been cheerleaders for Kennedy. Things could have been different.Bob_Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14013147654544140102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92195077876552615542010-11-22T20:42:45.888-06:002010-11-22T20:42:45.888-06:00As to whether Oswald was the lone gunman and acted...As to whether Oswald was the lone gunman and acted alone, there are two competing reasonable ways to analyze the question that are never going to come to the same conclusion: (1) the "official" story is an extraordinary longshot, e.g., one bullet doing all the damage (possible but highly unlikely), Oswald's background, Oswald's presence in the right place, Kennedy's body movements when shot, Ruby killing Oswald, etc.; versus (2) there is not sufficient proof of any alternative story. <br /><br />Point 1 allows many people to reasonably disbelieve the official story, while point 2 allows many people to reasonably accept the official story. <br /><br />I am moving from camp 1 to camp 2, simply because no one has come forward with good enough evidence to prove another theory. It may just well be one of those incredibly unlikely, but true, moments in history, never fully resolved because of the murder mystery element of it.Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16249912228726276082010-11-22T20:42:12.751-06:002010-11-22T20:42:12.751-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50722514922015372662010-11-22T20:30:17.339-06:002010-11-22T20:30:17.339-06:00I might also put Johnson in because of civil right...I might also put Johnson in because of civil rights, although he made a mess of everything else.<br /><br />Wilson for WWI? Maybe, althought it did not accomplish anything.<br /><br />I'm a fan of Grant, who is unjustiably criticized as a president, but the combination of his generalship in the Civil War and his calming presidency were instrumental in helping to save the union.Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37333521613087617282010-11-22T20:27:09.777-06:002010-11-22T20:27:09.777-06:00"There aren't many people who consider Mc..."There aren't many people who consider McKinley among the greatest Presidents of all time. That's not true of Kennedy." <br /><br />If you look at Presidential Rankings (check Wikipedia for instance) you will find that McKinley is very close to Kennedy. Considering the biases of the people doing the ranking that's a big vote for McKinley. But I agree that the media machine / cult of personality worked for Camelot as never before.Bob_Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14013147654544140102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60576057253577966162010-11-22T20:25:36.474-06:002010-11-22T20:25:36.474-06:00I'm afraid we are getting close to McKinley st...I'm afraid we are getting close to McKinley status, since only people 55 or older really have any recollection and, as evidenced by this thread, there is litte hesitancy in joking about it.<br /><br />I don't know about the effect long term of Kennedy's assasination. What are you talking about?<br /><br />It is is Vietnam, there really is no way to know. And, even if you accept the theory that he would have pulled out of Vietnam sooner, the final result in terms of a N. Vietnam victory would have been the same (albeit with far fewer American deaths)<br /><br />It possibly would have changed the line of presidents. Kennedy probably would have been re-elected in 64, then an epic Johnson/Nixon battle in 68.<br /><br />By the way, Kennedy had many flaws but I consider him a great president because he managed to avoid the real threat of nuclear war, resisting very bad advice from senior military officials. I believe presidents should be judged primarily by how they handled great issues. Some never get a great issue thrust upon them, so they are historically insignificant (like Clinton). Others successfully meet the challenge - Washington, Polk, Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan (probably), Bush I (Gulf War I) and possibly Bush II (if Iraq produces long term benefits).Kansas Cityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16630367629067743935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31274380247176379922010-11-22T19:26:26.569-06:002010-11-22T19:26:26.569-06:00I've said it before and I'll say it again,...I've said it before and I'll say it again, the implications that JFK's assassination has had on this country were not only profound, but we are still dealing with the ramifications and consequences of that assassination to this day. That single moment in history has created such a ripple of effects on all of us that I don't know where they will end.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25855010548773295832010-11-22T19:16:08.209-06:002010-11-22T19:16:08.209-06:00At this point the JFK assassination and it's a...At this point the JFK assassination and it's accessory conspiracy theory stories end up playing out like a game of clue. Lee Harvey Oswald in the book depository with a rifle. You win.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50348489407576428232010-11-22T17:30:33.372-06:002010-11-22T17:30:33.372-06:00I was at the UoMN Bursar's office paying winte...I was at the UoMN Bursar's office paying winter quarter tuition when a clerk said: "Oh that's funny, the president being shoot, Ha, Ha!" I growled at her and went on my way. In Folwell Hall, people were gathered around a TV or radio and when asked what was happening, they said that JFK was dead; so that clerk simply acted the fool and she probably regreted doing so later on. After that my view of JFK changed and forgot about what a poor job he had done as president; no longer important after that time.<br /><br />Of course, even during the Berlin Wall crisis, I felt he was playing in Russia's hands and acted like a spoiled child; his acts seemed poorly thought out. The Cuban Missile crisis seemed better handled the next year but still, I was getting ready to consider voting present in the 1964 elections. All that disappeared so quickly and we then had LBJ and his scar tissue to ponder.<br /><br />Cheers.1775OGGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14855909337030182350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8210745447710291662010-11-22T17:07:33.059-06:002010-11-22T17:07:33.059-06:00c3 said...
When in the future will Kennedy...<i> c3 said...<br /><br /> When in the future will Kennedy's assassination become like William McKinley's?</i><br /><br />Well, when it happens, I won't know about it because it certainly won't happen in the lifetime of anyone who was around in 1963.<br /><br />I also don't know that the two assassinations are really comparable. McKinley was the third president to be assassinated in 40 years. It wouldn't have seemed to the people of the time as something unthinkable. Every adult had lived through the same thing before.<br /><br />Kennedy was the only president assassinated in the last 110 years.<br /><br />Also, Kennedy was the most powerful person in (at least) the free world when he died. McKinley couldn't come close to that distinction.<br /><br />There aren't many people who consider McKinley among the greatest Presidents of all time. That's not true of Kennedy. <br /><br />Was McKinley worth remembering anyway?<br /><br /><i>Where is McKinley, <br />Mark Hanna's McKinley,<br />his slave, his echo, his suit of clothes,<br />Gone to join the shadows with the pomps of that year,<br />and the flame of that summer's prairie rose</i><br />--Vachel Lindsay (more or less)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46678194358954109952010-11-22T16:45:11.961-06:002010-11-22T16:45:11.961-06:00I have not read it in years (maybe tonight?) but T...I have not read it in years (maybe tonight?) but The Tears of Autumn by Charles McCarry is an excellent spy thriller and the best Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory yarn I've ever read.Bob_Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14013147654544140102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57751601271377218322010-11-22T16:05:27.309-06:002010-11-22T16:05:27.309-06:00Calling Dr. Freud.
Trooper...you misspelled &quo...Calling Dr. Freud. <br /><br />Trooper...you misspelled "patsy" using "pasty" instead. The next sentence you mention Ruby's strip club. You need a lap dance, bro!ndspinellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446291993043775612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34634183758329678192010-11-22T15:44:42.357-06:002010-11-22T15:44:42.357-06:00jr565 said...
Cedarford,
Nah it was Oswald all by ...jr565 said...<br />Cedarford,<br />Nah it was Oswald all by his lonesome. Wasn't that hard a shot amd required no magic bullets.<br /><br />===========<br />I'm agreeing with you, jr. Just pointing out that Oswald did not operate in an idealogical vaccum anymore than "lone gunman" Major Nidal Hasan did.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10318099954340885552010-11-22T14:35:49.051-06:002010-11-22T14:35:49.051-06:00ndspinelli wrote:
Wasn't Clint Eastwood on tha...ndspinelli wrote:<br />Wasn't Clint Eastwood on that Secret Service detail?<br /><br> Yeah, he was the agent that was there when kennedy got killed.But he did make up for it later when he killed John Malkovic before he could stand over the body of another dead president. And then he went on to work with an orangutan and direct movies. Or maybe he worked with the orangutan and then worked on the presidents security detail. Not sure.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45397723697980191702010-11-22T14:31:42.440-06:002010-11-22T14:31:42.440-06:00Cedarford,
Nah it was Oswald all by his lonesome. ...Cedarford,<br />Nah it was Oswald all by his lonesome. Wasn't that hard a shot amd required no magic bullets.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46634473126865483242010-11-22T14:30:16.660-06:002010-11-22T14:30:16.660-06:00ShoutingThomas wrote:
Just saying this, because it...ShoutingThomas wrote:<br />Just saying this, because it's popular among leftists to attribute the killing to some sort of right wing frenzy in Texas.<br /><br />To repeat, the killer was a leftist, a communist.<br /><br><br />THat's not what Oliver Stone said!I think you got your facts wrong. Clearly it was the three indigant homeless men on the grassy knoll who were then whisked away on trains. And LBJ had something to do with it. Was trying to follow the whole train of events but it was a riddle wrapped inside an enigma so was very confusing. All I know is it was proved that Kennedy's head could not have gone back and to the left the way it did.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.com