tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post4191108845425831641..comments2024-03-28T11:24:19.308-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Washington joins two other states that have passed ballot measures making same-sex marriage legal..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger105125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73175989430331519422012-11-11T19:02:29.818-06:002012-11-11T19:02:29.818-06:00Wow. People must be getting tires of this issue. O...Wow. People must be getting tires of this issue. Only two days of commenting, and far less then the hundreds of comments this subject normally gets.<br /><br />And that's one of the reasons SSM finally won at the ballot box. A large enough number of people thought "F- it, ain't worth the hassle fighting it any longer."<br /><br />I don't know about the rest of you, but the vast majority of people I know who actually support SSM, aside from the gays, still think it is a really stupid idea, but they're convinced it has something to do with "equality". So now, the really stupid idea will be put into law. Gospacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570281939230746682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36996893876705072462012-11-10T07:14:47.939-06:002012-11-10T07:14:47.939-06:00And the idea of compromise between "the gays&...And the idea of compromise between "the gays" and "the church-goers" is complicated by the existence of gay church-goers and straight church-goers who support full marriage rights for same-sex couples. <br /><br />Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40751460352488310462012-11-10T07:12:50.249-06:002012-11-10T07:12:50.249-06:00jr565: how many states have accommodated gays alre...jr565: <i>how many states have accommodated gays already with civil unions,,which is what a gay marriage in effect is. Yet that is met with a separate but equal argument, as if you couldn't achieve everything gays need through a civil union.</i><br /><br />How many states have civil unions or domestic partnerships? About 8. There are a few states which approved civil unions and have switched to recognizing marriages, so that makes the number a little trickier to pin down. <br /><br />And about 19 states have constitutional amendments that prevent them from recognizing civil unions. Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84030627767508860652012-11-10T03:13:58.854-06:002012-11-10T03:13:58.854-06:00Big mike wrote:
My impression is that nearly all o...Big mike wrote:<br />My impression is that nearly all of the effort to reach compromise was on the part of the church-goers. Essentially none on the part of the gay community<br> how many states have accommodated gays already with civil unions,,which is what a gay marriage in effect is. Yet that is met with a separate but equal argument, as if you couldn't achieve everything gays need through a civil union.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57551567748015109482012-11-10T01:03:03.700-06:002012-11-10T01:03:03.700-06:00jr565: my fear is that they wil force churches to ...jr565: my fear is that they wil force churches to recognize gay marriage by force of law. If the state wants to do this then gays should go to city hall and get a license. But they shouldn't force a priest who finds such marriages to not be marriages to oversee such a marriage against there will.<br /><br />This is an unfounded fear. There are churches that won't perform straight marriages that don't fall within their religious teachings -- interfaith marriages, remarriages, etc. -- and to the best of my knowledge, no one has successfully challenged this. <br /><br />What's more, most of the states that are passing legislation that allows for same-sex marriage are passing some form of religious liberty language explicitly stating that clergy are not required to marry anyone they don't want to marry.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72303146643672969872012-11-09T23:48:46.836-06:002012-11-09T23:48:46.836-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8843346199971966552012-11-09T23:35:35.992-06:002012-11-09T23:35:35.992-06:00Big Mike: On topic, I will always believe that the...Big Mike: <i>On topic, I will always believe that the point of gay marriage was to pick a fight with Christians. As a confirmed, but non-proseltyzing, atheist and hardcore heterosexual I have no dog in that fight, but I regard the fight itself as a blunder.</i><br /><br />The gay couples who were getting married in the 90s -- at least the ones I knew -- involved people who grew up in the church and never really left. They were pastors' kids, missionary kids, and theology students. <br /><br />Back then, the mainstream gay rights groups were against the push for marriage. If I recall correctly, HRC was still arguing that marriage was going to derail their legislative priorities as recently as 2008. <br /><br /><i>My impression is that nearly all of the effort to reach compromise was on the part of the church-goers. </i><br /><br />I'd like to know what leads you to this conclusion. <br /><br />Yes, there are some denominations that have been moving toward greater acceptance, but in the civil arena, much (if not all) of the opposition to same-sex marriage and civil unions has been organized and funded by church groups. <br /><br />The Catholic Church was opposed when civil unions came up in the New Hampshire legislature in 2007. If I recall correctly, they fought against civil unions in Washington state, too. It seems that the Bishops have started to see civil unions as preferable to marriage, but I think it's come a little too late. <br /><br />In 2008, Richard Crizik was asked to resign from the National Association of Evangelicals after he said that he supported civil unions.<br /><br />David Blankenhorn and Jonathan Rauch proposed a civil union compromise in 2009 with an opinion piece in the NYT, but their proposal went nowhere. <br /><br />Had there been movement toward federal recognition of civil unions, then this might seem like a viable alternative to marriage, but it doesn't seem that this is likely. You might recall that there were a number of state constitutional amendments that explicitly forbid the recognition of civil unions.<br /><br />Links provided if you want them. Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55584432986443482602012-11-09T18:22:01.640-06:002012-11-09T18:22:01.640-06:00If we approve having two types of marriage, gay an...If we approve having two types of marriage, gay and straight what's the argument against polygamy. Just askingJimGlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01178918547722947172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36525257480555318542012-11-09T18:20:51.632-06:002012-11-09T18:20:51.632-06:00If gay marriage, why not multi-partner marriage, p...If gay marriage, why not multi-partner marriage, polygamy has such a bad rep these days.JimGlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01178918547722947172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30751811674732940642012-11-09T18:10:54.613-06:002012-11-09T18:10:54.613-06:00Isn't the state over-stepping the boundary int...<i>Isn't the state over-stepping the boundary into religion?</i><br /><br />It did that centuries ago. How about if the state get out of marriage and declare basic civil unions for anyone who then wants to solemnize their marriage in a church, on a hillside or where ever and how ever they please.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43662651764772445912012-11-09T18:03:50.555-06:002012-11-09T18:03:50.555-06:00"Justin said...
@Harold: You need to go look..."Justin said... <br />@Harold: You need to go look for your grip on reality because you seem to have lost it. "<br /><br />I'm projecting into the future, looking at reality as has set in elsewhere.<br /><br />There are vast parts of gay Paree where the gendarmes dare not enter, and sharia is enforced. That's reality.<br /><br />Jews in France, Germany, and Norway have all been warned not to wear yarmulkes and show their identity in public- it's dangerous for them to do so. That's reality.<br /><br />Try walking hand-in-hand with your gay lover (if you're gay) down the streets in Dearbornistan, MI, and stop in front of the local mosque on a Friday afternoon as services are letting out, and give each other a real, wet, sloppy kiss. Before you do so, let me know your names so I can prepare a nice eulogy on your martyrdom in showing the rest of the United States where the future lies.<br /><br />Brings another thought to mind- Israel. I wouldn't bet a wooden shekel on the survival of Israel for 4 more years. And since it is a well known secret that Israel possesses nukes, and the will to use them as retaliation, the end won't be pretty. <br /><br />I haven't lost my grip on reality- I've simply overnight become much more pessimistic.Gospacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570281939230746682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25663034698452455042012-11-09T16:38:29.662-06:002012-11-09T16:38:29.662-06:00lawyapalooza said...
You all crack me up. Wha...<i>lawyapalooza said...<br /><br /> You all crack me up. What exactly is the problem with gays having equal civil rights under the law?</i><br /><br />This argument always comes up. There is no problem, since all homosexuals have the same rights as individual sovereign citizens of the US. They are not excluded in any way from the laws that individual heterosexuals enjoy. Homosexuals have it wrong and have always been wrong about homosexual marriage. Society has made it plainly clear that marriage is a function of and individual man and an individual woman coming together in matrimony. It's not about love, it's not about procreation, it's not about sex. Homosexuals can be married, they never lost that ability because they are crying over something they never had. Instead they are asking that a special concession be made for same sex couples to marry on top of and equal to heterosexual couples. Homosexuals can get married right now to someone of the opposite sex. It's never stopped them.<br /><br />So once again, homosexuals want special rights above and beyond those they already have that everyone else shares.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26306104940501875952012-11-09T16:33:16.656-06:002012-11-09T16:33:16.656-06:00Government has to get involved in marraige for two...Government has to get involved in marraige for two reasons: 1) enforcing contract law (Yes the modern marriage contract is a mess, but just because we have irresponsible divorce laws doesn't mean the government shouldn't be involved) 2) welfare of children (again the modern government does not actually care about the welfare of children but current bad government doesn't mean custody should be a free for all). So there's no way to be fully libertarian on marriage without causing other problems. sparrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01693437681522726538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31724333059906084342012-11-09T15:54:03.680-06:002012-11-09T15:54:03.680-06:00@Harold: You need to go look for your grip on rea...@Harold: You need to go look for your grip on reality because you seem to have lost it. Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702578507882215070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89235690260761545972012-11-09T15:34:58.218-06:002012-11-09T15:34:58.218-06:00Somehow I think there are alot of folks who love s...Somehow I think there are alot of folks who love states' rights with regard to these gay marriage votes will be less enamored with the concept when states refuse to set up an Obamacare exchange.TosaGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08520232078421382322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55652987734478781352012-11-09T15:34:15.084-06:002012-11-09T15:34:15.084-06:00"But, of course, the bigots, bishops and othe..."But, of course, the bigots, bishops and other idiots will never give up trying to impose their beliefs and will on everyone else."<br /><br />Done being polite. Idiot comment- it's the gays forcing their WANTS on everyone else- and now they've got it. Within 6 months, every judge in every state that sees a case, and I'm sure ordinary gay couples will follow up in every state, will rule that due to changing social mores, marriage is now something completely different. The fight on gay marriage is over.<br /><br />Which means the fight on polygamy is also over. Within 5 years it will be legalized everywhere. The legal obstacles are fewer. After all, polygamy is already recognozed in all of Sharialand.<br /><br />Speaking of which, once polygamy is legalized, within a very few short years, your happy gay couples will no longer be able to walk down the street holding hands and kissing in large swaths of major American cities. While the Feds will recognize gay marriage, the locals will enforce sharia extrajudicially- and no political or legal authority will stop them.<br /><br />Enjoy your gay marriages and relationships while they last. While it may seem paradoxical, the door to sharia is now wide open.Gospacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570281939230746682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91812693499208951982012-11-09T15:27:51.165-06:002012-11-09T15:27:51.165-06:00You all crack me up. What exactly is the problem w...<i>You all crack me up. What exactly is the problem with gays having equal civil rights under the law? I have never seen a divorce caused by the fact that a gay couple wants to get married.</i><br /><br />Have you bothered to read the entire thread? Has anyone said they can't have the same civil rights (which means speech, press, to bear arms, etc.).<br /><br />I'm with the group that says the government should be out of the marriage business entirely. Maybe even a basic national civil union law that ensconces stuff like survivor benefits, probate court issues, etc. You see, this would be a compromise, and I think a lot of people would go for it. Are there some SoCons who wouldn't? Of course.<br /><br />The problem with the gay mafia is that they don't want compromise. I agree with Big Mike that they just want to pick a fight with Christians as a whole. And as long as the gay mafia is unwilling to compromise, you'll see people resist them at the polls.I Callahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05685117264945267646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74534189873475737022012-11-09T15:24:32.258-06:002012-11-09T15:24:32.258-06:00My comment at 2:15 should have read: "Besides...My comment at 2:15 should have read: "Besides, <i>gay activists</i> are among the useful idiots being exploited ...."<br /><br />I apologize for the overbreadth.hombrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12670099074010641958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48124281542574765792012-11-09T15:03:23.380-06:002012-11-09T15:03:23.380-06:00when it's in the legislature, then it should b...when it's in the legislature, then it should be sent to the courts ! when it's in the courts, they are 'activist' and it should go to the voters ! when the voters want it then...uhh...uhhh...it just shouldn't happen at all!! jeeze louise...and people wonder why gay citizens feel victimized.el polackohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13265451503377552500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84311545999256088392012-11-09T15:01:17.562-06:002012-11-09T15:01:17.562-06:00Dave spewed: As opposed to the useless idiot who w...Dave spewed: <i>As opposed to the useless idiot who wrote the above!</i><br /><br />There now, Dave. Wasn't that easier than responding to my comments calling you on your earlier bullshit?<br /><br />(Sorry, btw, if the "useful idiot" and "social Marxism" political references were beyond your ken. Substitute "cultural Marxism" if it helps.)hombrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12670099074010641958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85616030955482862952012-11-09T14:55:44.082-06:002012-11-09T14:55:44.082-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.hombrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12670099074010641958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74675205301614137062012-11-09T14:43:43.367-06:002012-11-09T14:43:43.367-06:00There are lots of "icky" things that con...There are lots of "icky" things that consenting adults can engage in. I'm not in favor of making any of this against the law, but neither do I think such things should be encouraged by laws either.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34744526046146495392012-11-09T14:35:38.223-06:002012-11-09T14:35:38.223-06:00hombre said..." Besides, gays, etc., are amon...hombre said..." Besides, gays, etc., are among the useful idiots being exploited as part of the social marxist agenda."<br /><br />As opposed to the useless idiot who wrote the above!Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15419986875479683705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81365156781245411512012-11-09T14:33:15.252-06:002012-11-09T14:33:15.252-06:00I love how some gays insist on litigating their wa...I love how some gays insist on litigating their way into our hearts instead of celebrating a popular victory. It is the most telling of their true intent. chickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77415034046505806682012-11-09T14:21:47.330-06:002012-11-09T14:21:47.330-06:00Unknown, I guess.
Freder, Actually if they are b...Unknown, I guess. <br /><br />Freder, Actually if they are being denied one of their biological parents, if it is a same-sex couple. Both can not be biological parents.<br /><br />You can have a gay mom and dad. That's fine. No problem there. Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.com