tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post4158304354733972131..comments2024-03-28T13:53:16.634-05:00Comments on Althouse: "After UW-Madison chancellor's email stirred controversy, Regents prepare resolution on free speech."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23291471412610619032015-12-11T19:27:27.864-06:002015-12-11T19:27:27.864-06:00I find it difficult to debate this in the abstract...I find it difficult to debate this in the abstract. Hypotheticals are so much more instructive. Consider the following: (1) A student, or a staff member, or a professor, says (in class or in the cafeteria or in an office) that affirmative action should be eliminated, citing Sanders's mismatch research. (2) History Professor A says in his American History class that the South was justified in rebelling, that the Constitution recognized slavery and it was the North's determination to violate the Constitution that forced secession. (3) Middle Eastern Studies Professor B says in his Palestinian History class that Hitler's only mistake was in not killing all the Jews. Or a student says in his class that all the Jews living in Israel should "be forced by whatever means are necessary to go back to wherever they came from so that Palestine can be restored to its rightful owners." (4) A student calls another student a "fascist and a Nazi." (5) A student calls another student a "faggot." (6) A student objects to claims that the US is unjust and racist, and says "The US is the land of opportunity - anyone can be successful, it's just a matter of hard work." My question is whether, consistent with free speech rights, a university can or should punish any of these statements. Douglas B. Levenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07916420802096618688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66593212750355906012015-12-11T13:51:19.970-06:002015-12-11T13:51:19.970-06:00My wife comes from a family where her dad and mom ...My wife comes from a family where her dad and mom stayed together by not talking at all about their family problems. You knew a family member was angry with you when they did NOT speak to you.<br /><br />It took me 20 years to learn this about my wife, two decades in which she stewed silently in rage at me, before she learned to clearly state issues with me, to me.<br /><br />Well, I knew this about her before we married, but I got 20 good years out of it.mikeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17875483485290838207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34684142262869230902015-12-10T19:43:34.057-06:002015-12-10T19:43:34.057-06:00What's the point of free speech if someone isn...What's the point of free speech if someone isn't offended?<br /><br />BTW, this type of bullshit is now common in companies--you are free to express your opinions as long as you don't disagree with anyone.<br /><br />I wish this were a joke. My job was recently threatened for asking a big shot manager about something, just after he'd make a big speech about how we needed to be proactive in making suggestions to improve products and processes. Mind you, I didn't even make a suggestion, just asked a question.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77095914211469879932015-12-10T18:24:08.007-06:002015-12-10T18:24:08.007-06:00Sorry. I mistook the original email as part of the...Sorry. I mistook the original email as part of the resolutions. I agree with the text of the resolutions; they make complete sense. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43976495976211269482015-12-10T18:21:45.510-06:002015-12-10T18:21:45.510-06:00What Chancellor Black is really saying is "no...What Chancellor Black is <i>really</i> saying is "no one is entitled to express them in ways that diminish others <b><i>unless the others are white, male, heterosexual, Christian, or conservative, or any combination thereof</i></b>, in which case anything goes. It's the old liberal "wink, wink, nudge, nudge."Big Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831645119853118904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76605330385618394002015-12-10T18:21:23.463-06:002015-12-10T18:21:23.463-06:00"Instapundit has pointed out state colleges i...<i>"Instapundit has pointed out state colleges in states with Republican legislatures (The majority) are risking blowback with these idiotic free speech attacks."<br /><br /></i>As more than one Instapundit commenter has pointed out, repub threats are almost always nothing but tuff talk.campyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188668300381722712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61936139270809959672015-12-10T18:20:23.600-06:002015-12-10T18:20:23.600-06:00Most of the most important ideas in history were c...Most of the most important ideas in history were considered "offensive" by some politically important person or group at the time. That's why they usually got the person expressing them killed. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24319005520017980972015-12-10T18:18:30.273-06:002015-12-10T18:18:30.273-06:00Why not just call these abominations what they are...Why not just call these abominations what they are: No-Hurt Feelings Resolutions. <br /><br />No one can predicts how strong or weak someone's ego will be when it comes to being able to handle what others say to them. As such these things are impossible to enforce. And people are kidding themselves if they think they can even restrict speech on the basis of whether it's "personally directed", (i.e. "abusive"). I guess you can make an exception for direct speech that is unwanted or can be presumed as such, (fliers on doors, mass emails targeting people or based on unrequested "group affiliations", what not), but it would have to be a very clearly definable and reasonable line like that. <br /><br /><i>(And by the way, the demand for polite, respectful, civil expression can undercut the speech of protesters and has a disparate impact on those who do not come from a cultural and family background where polite speech is the usual form of communication.)</i><br /><br />Ha ha. I loved that last part. I have no doubt that families that argue more have, on the whole and all things being equal, more successful kids. They're probably more intellectually curious, also. There's something to be said for not assuming a secure respect for whatever you define as "your feelings" is the most important thing. As I told a priest the other day, a society that never offends is a tyranny of the uncreative and emotionally unstable. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30230686123233169592015-12-10T18:04:54.111-06:002015-12-10T18:04:54.111-06:00Instapundit has pointed out state colleges in stat...Instapundit has pointed out state colleges in states with Republican legislatures (The majority) are risking blowback with these idiotic free speech attacks.<br /><br />Private universities like Yale and Dartmouth are pretty much immune from state retribution and Dartmouth, at least, has packed its Board with drones.Michael Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127450762129879267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3070838007495591102015-12-10T17:41:39.962-06:002015-12-10T17:41:39.962-06:00I don't think the first amendment gives a flyi...I don't think the first amendment gives a flying fuck about any resolutions coming from a university system board of regents.RecChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08332736695988953550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54267609138128262212015-12-10T17:28:46.426-06:002015-12-10T17:28:46.426-06:00@ Bob Boyd
I wish we had a modern day George Orwe...@ Bob Boyd<br /><br />I wish we had a modern day George Orwell. He was a socialist betrayed by the Communists. (Read "Homage to Catalonia"). He got it. We are not dealing with well-meaning socialists. We are dealing with Stalinists.<br /><br />Might as well read "Politics and the English Language." It's a great essay. <br /><br />I suspect that I am not telling you anything you do not know. I hope others on the sight will read the comment. Francisco Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06352134756750456783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62247091442655659572015-12-10T16:57:41.582-06:002015-12-10T16:57:41.582-06:00While critics have called students coddled and nai...<i>While critics have called students coddled and naive, observers say there's more going on than political correctness run amok</i><br /><br />"Run amok?" Run amok?! It's more that cultural insensitivity when people in power use that phrase, it's straight up racism. Triggering, too, obviously. Someone has some reeducation to endure.<br /><br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia: Running Amok</a>HoodlumDoodlumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17591221162603652473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27166748866930858022015-12-10T16:41:02.705-06:002015-12-10T16:41:02.705-06:00Ann Althouse said...And by the way, the demand for...<i>Ann Althouse said...And by the way, the demand for polite, respectful, civil expression can undercut the speech of protesters and has a disparate impact on those who do not come from a cultural and family background where polite speech is the usual form of communication.</i><br /><br />Yes ma'am, but that's a feature, not a bug--why do you think you read about Leftist protesters with "strong opinions" and "expressing deeply felt emotion" but non-Leftist protesters "spewing rage" and "angrily shouting?" The Left defines opinions they don't agree with as hateful and asserts that no one has a right to express hate (since it harms others, violates safe spaces, and so on), but the ALSO selectively define forms of expression based who is making that expression and what its goals are. Does anyone for a moment believe that if the College Republicans had disrupted a college library the way the Black Lives Matters group did that it would have been tolerated? Hell no, people would be in frickin' jail, bro. <br /><br />So please don't worry about a possible disparate impact, Professor--if the Left is ok with the messengers they won't punish the message, no matter how delivered. Your concern would be valid if there existed things like objective standards we (or the Media, or university Administrators) applied...but we shouldn't pretend that's the reality we live in.HoodlumDoodlumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17591221162603652473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80350960072919729732015-12-10T16:13:00.875-06:002015-12-10T16:13:00.875-06:00Diminish the "Badger community"? This is...Diminish the "Badger community"? This is a community so notorious for dogged verbal harassment that it has given its name to a legal objection (badgering the witness)! <br /><br />robotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04158315485808195005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53525722744986892252015-12-10T15:33:17.306-06:002015-12-10T15:33:17.306-06:00Why is there a "Rebecca Black" tag on th...Why is there a "Rebecca Bla<b>c</b>k" tag on this post?campyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188668300381722712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17609155223576786242015-12-10T15:26:16.795-06:002015-12-10T15:26:16.795-06:00The inevitable result of leftism regardless of whe...The inevitable result of leftism regardless of where or when it gains power.<br /><br />But only every single time.Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079148433908004715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84006801500438138552015-12-10T15:21:36.473-06:002015-12-10T15:21:36.473-06:00"no one is entitled to express them in ways t...<i>"no one is entitled to express them in ways that diminish others, or that devalues the presence of anyone that is part of our Badger community."</i><br /><br />False. <br /><br />Apparently at least some part of the "Badger community" is also part of the <a href="http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/mammals/weasel/Mustelids.shtml" rel="nofollow">"weasel family"</a>.<br /><br /><i>rhhardin said...<br />Impolite disagreement is the best.</i><br /><br />Fuck that shit. :-)<br /><br /><i>While critics have called students coddled and naive, observers say there's more going on than political correctness run amok.</i><br /><br />Unfortunately the article didn't provide any examples.<br /><br /><i>Afterward, Mr. Christakis defended the student, tweeting, “No one, especially no students exercising right to speech, should be judged just on basis of short video clip.”</i><br /><br />So no more police body cameras?Fernandinandehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11253225431705407699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44138370178816403892015-12-10T15:09:37.611-06:002015-12-10T15:09:37.611-06:00I don't see much civility coming from the left...I don't see much civility coming from the left. All Republicans are idiots, according to most of the liberals and leftists who never shut up. My beloved mother is a Republican and my late father was, too, so that offends me. If I had a developmentally disabled relative or close friend, the "idiot" part would offend me, too. <br /><br />If I criticize the violent rhetoric of Islam, I'm condemned as an Islamophobe (or worse and more illogically, a racist). But it's been a long time since anyone's acted as if rude comments about Catholic priests and the last pope were off-limits. <br /><br />Will no one stand up on these campuses and demand that the babies screaming for safe spaces and civil speech provide the same courtesies to their opponents? <br /><br />(That's a rhetorical question, of course. The correct answer is: don't be silly; leftists are not only right in their thinking, they're also morally good. Those who disagree with them aren't merely wrong -- they're eeeeeevilll, so they don't have the same rights to speech and freedom from insult that good people have. I mean, duh.)Deneverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299728406538308878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90777761326008749622015-12-10T14:54:01.862-06:002015-12-10T14:54:01.862-06:00I think it's the Rebecca Blanks of the world t...I think it's the Rebecca Blanks of the world that are making Donald Trump so popular. Undoubtedly, she has no idea why Trump is popular and personally knows no one who supports him.Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01326112431463279918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21283365269709469772015-12-10T14:48:08.572-06:002015-12-10T14:48:08.572-06:00LL said...
"What the heck is going on at univ...LL said...<br />"What the heck is going on at universities? These aren't just kids saying this, it is chancellor of the University of Wisconsin Madison." <br /><br />Blankety Blank is trying to beat the kids to the punch. You've got to get out ahead of these things, or suffer the consequences. Guess who they'll demand resign if they get the notion that someone needs to resign to soothe their feels? It's easier to try to get on their side early than it would be to stiffen her backbone later if and when they demand she step down. She's a mealy-mouthed disgrace to the "Badger community", partly for saying "Badger community".Char Char Binks, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10649888089413308406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63998723542460322912015-12-10T14:47:44.050-06:002015-12-10T14:47:44.050-06:00@Mrs W
I agree, especially in a communication abo...@Mrs W<br /><br />I agree, especially in a communication about communication -- especially one that take the position that the polish of the form of communication matters.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50438780280972943562015-12-10T13:54:14.548-06:002015-12-10T13:54:14.548-06:00I agree that it's easy to build errors into se...I agree that it's easy to build errors into sentences accidentally during the writing process and to overlook your own errors if you're doing your own proofreading. (I'll be lucky if I get through this comment without doing it at least once.) I've been writing for a living for many years. These days, I have editing help, but for a long time, nobody edited what I wrote - it went straight from my computer into prime time. I tried hard to make sure nothing squirm-inducing got through, but from time to time, it did. It happens to everybody who writes, which is why the profession of editing was invented. <br /><br />And it's also why, if I were the chancellor of a university and I were preparing an important communication like this to be sent to thousands of people (what's more, people whose education has been entrusted to me, at significant expense), I would make sure to give my draft to somebody else whose language skills I trust and ask them to read it for sense, grace and grammatical correctness before I hit "send." Not to bother with that kind of basic precaution is a mark of some kind of serious flaw - whether it's a personal flaw like overconfidence, carelessness, laziness or just plain insufficient intelligence to recognize the need, or just another example of the general collapse of academic standards across the board.Mrs Whatsithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11809287715660867405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87854195827296409332015-12-10T13:43:30.541-06:002015-12-10T13:43:30.541-06:00I could be sympathetic to calls for civility if th...I could be sympathetic to calls for civility if they were leveled at everyone, but it seems we only hear about this when it is the speech of the Right or anyone who isn't PC that's being discussed. How about telling the screaming protesters and BlackLivesMatter and their allies that while they have a right to free speech, nasty insults, screaming and half-truths will be called out or ignored? <br /><br />Schools do have a need to maintain some civility--no class could be conducted properly if it turned into a free for all. But standards should be objective and evenly applied. Brandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06219319435229314554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75176143847315670292015-12-10T13:41:17.931-06:002015-12-10T13:41:17.931-06:00There are fascists in academia as well as in polit...There are fascists in academia as well as in politics.Lewis Wetzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200232293505119133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35398432631897970352015-12-10T13:20:11.814-06:002015-12-10T13:20:11.814-06:00"Ann, you aptly skewered the foolish substanc..."Ann, you aptly skewered the foolish substance of this communication - but does the syntax of it bother you at all? I find it pretty disturbing that the Chancellor of a respected academic institution can't handle written English well enough to construct a grammatically correct sentence where the subjects and verbs agree. ( ... no one is entitled to express them in WAYS that ... DEVALUES the presence ..." ) We aren't talking about an everyday, informal note -- this was a formal communication from a leading educator to the student body on a matter of significant public concern. Presumably she put some effort into her language and tried to write it well. It's a bad sign that she wasn't up to the task."<br /><br />Yes, that's bad. <br /><br />Probably an artifact of editing. When you tweak your writing a lot, it's easy to leave something that you'd never have written straight out. I'm always finding errors like that in my own writing but it's always a lapse in proofreading. But proofreading is important. Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.com