tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post403877248529177714..comments2024-03-29T05:01:52.320-05:00Comments on Althouse: The sleazy sexism that's served up...Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68123248461602714952007-02-12T13:56:00.000-06:002007-02-12T13:56:00.000-06:00Oh dear. Read this.Appparently, ANS was doing the ...Oh dear. Read <A HREF="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4546435.html" REL="nofollow">this</A>.<BR/>Appparently, ANS was doing the Bahamian Immigration Minister.paul a'bargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08854004347728185047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90136105606209886862007-02-12T11:43:00.000-06:002007-02-12T11:43:00.000-06:00In relation to the comments about modesty, it remi...In relation to the comments about modesty, it reminded me of a recent experience. I lead a group for children and teens that have been sexually abused. We were talking about how sexual attention can feel creepy AND exciting for the teen girls, and what to do about that. I brought up the term modesty, and none of the 4 young ladies knew what the word meant!<BR/><BR/>Now all of them were dressed modestly, probably more so than their peers because of their past. But it was so interesting that they had not been taught the meaning of the word!<BR/><BR/>Thinking of it, how do I as a man dress modestly? For a married man, or at least this married man, it transforms to dressing down a bit to not flaunt my minor financial success. I dress a little more like a blue collar working guy than a professional, and that feels modest.<BR/><BR/>For women of course, modesty is sexual. It is about remaining covered and not provoking (isn't that a terrible word? it is blaming where that is not my intent, perhaps "risking would have been better) sexual attention from strangers or people you are not intimate with. <BR/><BR/>I guess this has some bearing to women being sex objects and men being success objects. Then again, maybe not. What are your thoughts? <BR/><BR/>TreyTMinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09332611409866112824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7401306328787906252007-02-12T09:15:00.000-06:002007-02-12T09:15:00.000-06:00Ruth Anne, I appreciate your comments, and agree w...Ruth Anne, I appreciate your comments, and agree with the beliefs animating them. Especially the part about your service and how it informs your take on things, which I much admire.<BR/><BR/>I found the photograph of Smith and the title "Thanks For the Mammaries" to be disrespectful to the dead (and curiously didn't fit with the tone of the post). It would have been fine to mock or complain about her 'career' and choices and marriages while alive, and maybe in about a year. But she just died. Maybe it's just me, but I believe in giving most people a pass when they die, and cut off the snark machine for a little while. A lack of respect for the dead is a most worrisome thing for the living.<BR/><BR/>And to argue -as has been noted above- that by her past behavior she was asking for it, well, that approach demeans us all. <BR/><BR/>TMVs post was just: <I>Hey, she's dead! Boobies! Boobies!</I> Very sixth grade.KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23375620858328311342007-02-12T08:51:00.000-06:002007-02-12T08:51:00.000-06:00Sad.R2KSad.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://r2000.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">R2K</A>High Power Rocketryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11537203640644706903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18725350893807828882007-02-12T06:03:00.000-06:002007-02-12T06:03:00.000-06:00Cruel to be kind? Dr. Bissage prescribes a good h...Cruel to be kind? Dr. Bissage prescribes a good heaping dose of 1980’s <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiwv4g97Ve0" REL="nofollow">power pop</A>. Watch two times and call me in the morning. Heh.Bissagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439910009646381418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71049303829401213342007-02-12T04:47:00.000-06:002007-02-12T04:47:00.000-06:00Ruth Anne, I have really appreciated your comments...Ruth Anne, I have really appreciated your comments. We are very much on the same page.<BR/><BR/>I think that, while it may be slightly without compassion to focus in on her bimbo reputation at the time of her passing, it might actually be compassionate to people like her if we were even less so.<BR/><BR/>If Anna Nicole had found more universal scorn for her cheap pursuit of the dollar through her sexuality, then maybe she and her son would be alive today.<BR/><BR/>You have to be cruel to be kind, in the right measure.EnigmatiCorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00596092527748619763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23904936007620760562007-02-12T04:45:00.000-06:002007-02-12T04:45:00.000-06:00It looks like someone who is desparate for attenti...<I>It looks like someone who is desparate for attention, but who doesn't like what she has to do to get it, like someone who understands that this is what she has to do to support herself, but who isn't happy with the choices that she's made.</I><BR/><BR/>Er... Anna was already rich and famous at the point when that photo was taken, so I don't think your small-town strip club hooker-with-a-heart-of-gold cliches really apply here. You're simply reading way too much into that photo. She looks bored, that's all. She probably *was* bored, since it was about the ten zillionth time she'd posed for cameras. I look bored when I drive to work in the morning, but that doesn't mean I'm a tortured soul.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59882454515475005292007-02-12T01:45:00.000-06:002007-02-12T01:45:00.000-06:00I have to say I'm drawing a blank on this one. The...I have to say I'm drawing a blank on this one. <BR/><BR/>The first post comments on the nature of ANS's celebrity and the photo of her posing so that paparazzi can snap pictures of her rear-end is a rather poignant depiction of the nature of her celebrity. I agree that the post title is a bit stupid and condescending, but the substance of the post makes clear that ANS, despite the nature of her celebrity (which was due in great part to her breasts), was a sympathetic person. That doesn't show an incapacity to sympathize.<BR/><BR/>The second reprints a cartoon that is a bit insensitive. But it's a reprint. The blogger didn't draw the cartoon himself. I don't see the point of the post, so it is gratuitous, but I don't think the insensitivity of the cartoon is the fault of the blogger who posted it.<BR/><BR/>I think neither post shows proper respect for a dead person. In my opinion obituaries should be positive and leave out scandals or negative information (unless that's literally the only reason the person was famous). But this lack of respect doesn't in my opinion show that the bloggers were "too busy pulling on something else". I think they were making slightly insensitive but substantive commentary on the nature of ANS's celebrity. I also don't think the lack of respect is due to the fact that ANS was female. I think it's a reflection of their opinion of her social worth when she was alive. As I already implied in this paragraph, if you have a low opinion of a dead person,in my opinion you should keep it to yourself. But expressing it doesn't make you a sexist, it just makes you an insensitive jerk.Mortimer Breznyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16964027337144379262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86138464135643331582007-02-12T01:30:00.000-06:002007-02-12T01:30:00.000-06:00I don't see the sexism.Anna Nicole Smith was known...I don't see the sexism.<BR/><BR/>Anna Nicole Smith was known primarily for two things: getting naked for photographers and, later on, marrying a billionaire sixty years older than her. Using pictures that note her sex-symbol status is not "sexist". It is honest.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, the "heaven's door" cartoon is certainly a bit tasteless, but it is also pretty funny. I think Anna would have laughed at it too, since (as her reality show demonstrated) she was quite willing to poke fun at herself.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16809449856280030902007-02-12T01:00:00.000-06:002007-02-12T01:00:00.000-06:00good to see ann as the great anna nicole smith def...good to see ann as the great anna nicole smith defender in death<BR/><BR/>so brave, and nonpartisanThe Exaltedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030346881185443267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5215749151446823642007-02-11T23:49:00.000-06:002007-02-11T23:49:00.000-06:00please everyone step back and not get in the way o...please everyone step back and not get in the way of Ann making some hay and getting the regcognition as a perceptive feminist that she must be.<BR/><BR/>and to all of you who think that ann sufferes from a female version of penis envy (you tube boob tube)...well...hdhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14573004614816464571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70748692323495222402007-02-11T23:17:00.000-06:002007-02-11T23:17:00.000-06:00Wow. ANS and HRC have a similar story.Ruth Anne, I...<I><BR/>Wow. ANS and HRC have a similar story.</I><BR/><BR/>Ruth Anne, I am very sad to read you make such a statement. As a trained lawyer, you know better than that. As an obviously devout practicing Catholic .... <BR/><BR/>Oh, never mind. I'm so disgusted by this whole conversation (and not just your part I referenced) to continue.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03071928294799081845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73560162102492403692007-02-11T23:13:00.000-06:002007-02-11T23:13:00.000-06:00Professor, am I right to think that because the Di...Professor, am I right to think that because the Dixie Chicks call themselves Chicks, that they are really pretty sleazoid sexist non-feminists?<BR/><BR/>Also, CNN's pic of them tonight kinda shows they put on some outfits that may have accented if not highlighted their bre*sts. (I saw a lot of shoulder too and even some intermammary sulci.) (I have to admit that seeing the intermammary sulci like that signaled to me a resemblance to the gluteal sulcus or the natal cleft which left me thinking of thoughts of reproduction.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61484559528493389522007-02-11T21:58:00.000-06:002007-02-11T21:58:00.000-06:00Simon and Jennifer: You offer a good challenge. ...Simon and Jennifer: <BR/>You offer a good challenge. I might've overstepped there. As I was talking about current pop culture, I believe the concept of "modesty" is misunderstood. It's not prudishness, burka-wearing fear of the body. It's a preservation of the fullness of the body beautiful for those intimate relationships wherein it is appropriate and --dare I say it?-- holy for bodies to entwine. I'm trying to take the Madonna/Whore conundrum and find the modest, appropriate, human-affirming middle.Ruth Anne Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01936054116421006847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62814846846947305912007-02-11T21:38:00.000-06:002007-02-11T21:38:00.000-06:00"If women behaved with more modesty and more ladyl..."<I>If women behaved with more modesty and more ladylikeness, men would behave less boorishly.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Men acting boorishly didn't begin with the rise of feminism; indeed, most of recorded history, which might be taken to resemble a cocktail of little <I>but</I> misogyny and boorishness, seems to stand in opposition to that point.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55676887467228251822007-02-11T21:24:00.000-06:002007-02-11T21:24:00.000-06:00Oh, well, my ignorance about Christianity is massi...Oh, well, my ignorance about Christianity is massive. I thought it was saying she's being locked out of heaven because she's a slut. <BR/><BR/>Yeah, St. Peter looking at the centerfold is funny.LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6025923471586640172007-02-11T21:18:00.000-06:002007-02-11T21:18:00.000-06:00If women behaved with more modesty and more ladyli...<I>If women behaved with more modesty and more ladylikeness, men would behave less boorishly.</I><BR/><BR/>I have to admit that I think <I>that</I> is a little sexist.<BR/><BR/>I think an equal case could be made that some women behave immodestly <I>because</I> of some men's boorishness.<BR/><BR/>But, I think the strongest case could be made for the idea that some women behave immodestly and some men behave boorishly and while they may egg each other on, neither is the <I>cause</I> for the other's behavior nor is either responsible for the other's behavior.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824506338738265111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9472223070510950232007-02-11T21:07:00.000-06:002007-02-11T21:07:00.000-06:00Loafing Oaf: I took that cartoon a different way....Loafing Oaf: I took that cartoon a different way. First off, she's at <I>the Pearly Gates</I>, which is not a whore's condemnation. Second, St. Peter is reviewing her work and he has to turn her book for the centerfold. That's kinda funny, no? She's been a centerfold, she's going to heaven and St. Pete is bemusedly reviewing her case for admission.Ruth Anne Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01936054116421006847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87859015365004204462007-02-11T20:50:00.000-06:002007-02-11T20:50:00.000-06:00To all those who are complaining about Ann calling...To all those who are complaining about Ann calling the Moderate Voice guys sexist: stop worrying or compaining about it. Ann calls everyone she has a problem with sexist sooner or later, regardless of whether they are sexist or not. It's just a personality tic, so there's no need to get upset. Plus, her credibility in the feminist community is zero, so it's not like her calling someone a sexist will have any real sting or lasting effects on that person. Nothing to see here, move along.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-12499036298567884782007-02-11T20:46:00.000-06:002007-02-11T20:46:00.000-06:00I have to admit I scratched my head over why the f...I have to admit I scratched my head over why the first link needed to be spot-lighted as a horrible example of sexism. I was expecting something worse and was like, "Is that all?" <BR/><BR/>Not that it's wrong for a blogger to make someone like me scatch my head and reflect on sexism. <BR/><BR/>But considering her career, it doesn't seem so bad, and is probably the result of the blogger feeling pressure to come up with a "clever take" on pop culture news. "Thanks for the Mammaries" isn't original though. <BR/><BR/>Is the point that when a "moderate voice" has that headline and pic it is signaling to the "moderate" readers that they can feel free to let it rip with sexism in the comments? <BR/><BR/>The cartoon in the second link is mean-spirited and feels worse - encouraging people to see her as a "whore" so they'll laugh at her death. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, I didn't follow Anna Nicole's career and wasn't a fan, yet she nevertheless managed to get a small role in one of my fave movies - The Hudsucker Proxy. So that's cool that she immortalized herself in my permanent DVD collection. :) Her character's name is Za Za!LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84286012863733248092007-02-11T19:58:00.000-06:002007-02-11T19:58:00.000-06:00RIA: If you're asking me, I would say it was quid...RIA: If you're asking me, I would say it was quid pro quo. When she gained weight and was no longer the hot commodity as a model, she became a reality show persona. When that waned, she took on the TrimSpa gig and reinvented herself. <BR/><BR/>But go back to her rise to fame. She began as an uknown and was discovered by a man to whom she hitched her wagon. He lead her to a loveless marriage and fame.<BR/><BR/>Wow. ANS and HRC have a similar story.<BR/><BR/>As you might say, "Interesting that."Ruth Anne Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01936054116421006847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-860673007854679092007-02-11T19:30:00.000-06:002007-02-11T19:30:00.000-06:00Hmm. Are you meaning to imply that it's all about ...Hmm. Are you meaning to imply that it's all about the "supply side," so to speak?reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43456228856245028112007-02-11T19:23:00.000-06:002007-02-11T19:23:00.000-06:00Re: Comments on anyone's blogs.Of COURSE I don't. ...Re: Comments on anyone's blogs.<BR/><BR/>Of COURSE I don't. All that I said is here that <B>that</B> was what gobsmacked me upon following the link. I didn't say a thing about the blogowners' responsibility with regard to that. In fact, if you go over there again, you'll see that I left a comment, which was directed <B>to that commenter</B>. If that wasn't clear, I'll go back over there and make it more clear.reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-12093518406847439202007-02-11T18:58:00.000-06:002007-02-11T18:58:00.000-06:00RC - You don't see how whether you've actually eve...RC - You don't see how whether you've actually ever taken a class from her is relevant to your ability to assess Ann -- <I>Professor Althouse</I> to you -- as a law professor? Why don't you tell us your opinion of some movies that you haven't seen while you're at it?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81327587936433781502007-02-11T18:37:00.000-06:002007-02-11T18:37:00.000-06:00I don't see how that is relevant.I don't see how that is relevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com