tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post3897836651170170228..comments2024-03-18T20:41:46.283-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Have I got a college for you. For your first two years, your regimen includes ancient Greek. And I do mean Greek, the language..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger159125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51723154173743876612018-09-17T14:56:07.621-05:002018-09-17T14:56:07.621-05:00"The degree to which “the program” omits the ...<b>"The degree to which “the program” omits the intellectual contributions of women and people of color troubles me." </b><br /><br />Translation: Western Civilization troubles me. John Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15492341011399861469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21279897456571667982018-09-15T06:32:27.713-05:002018-09-15T06:32:27.713-05:00"Who do I have to sleep with to get on this b...<i>"Who do I have to sleep with to get on this booklist?”</i><br /><br />Hay, I thought that GamerGate was off limits here!tim in vermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547980465313241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36300833853507211732018-09-13T21:03:58.424-05:002018-09-13T21:03:58.424-05:00How do we know what stands the test of time, when ...<i>How do we know what stands the test of time, when much has only recently been re-discovered? Sun Tzu? </i><br /><br />Bah. Sun Tzu wrote in a style that sounds profound, but it's really not. I bought [i]The Art of War[/i] back when business gurus were hyping it, and it's vapid.Bob Loblawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11081916786770290968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58528261707454069172018-09-13T20:50:18.091-05:002018-09-13T20:50:18.091-05:00Buwaya reports: That's why a typical female m...Buwaya reports: <b>That's why a typical female mummy-portrait (lots of them from Roman-era Egypt), has the lady pensively holding a stylus.</b><br /><br />Maybe she was making out her grocery list. ;-D<br />mockturtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507310332014103437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51092361265701823472018-09-13T19:11:18.388-05:002018-09-13T19:11:18.388-05:00On the humility front:
As a Johnny, it's not ...On the humility front:<br /><br />As a Johnny, it's not unusual to have a strong distaste for or disrespect towards something on the Program. It is, however, unusual to express that disrespect without encountering someone who a) loves the work in question and b) has thought deeply about it and c) can demonstrate the shallowness of your own engagement. This tends to encourage sympathetic, deep reading, at least if you dislike being verbally smacked down in seminar.<br /><br />This also plays into the idea of 'original sources'. It's actually a bit disconcerting when you return to the real world, and encounter people with strong opinions about authors whose books they haven't read.<br /><br />It does lead to intellectual indecision for some. 'Go not to the Johnnies for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.'Odioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02460176818086668924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64719345590140000932018-09-13T18:56:48.077-05:002018-09-13T18:56:48.077-05:00"They didn't back in Greek and Roman time..."They didn't back in Greek and Roman times."<br /><br />They most certainly did. <br />Writing was at least sometimes a Roman female fad. <br />That's why a typical female mummy-portrait (lots of them from Roman-era Egypt), has the lady pensively holding a stylus. <br /><br />What did not happen is preservation. Only a tiny fraction of classical literature has survived, and of that, probably, a much smaller fraction of anything written by women. <br /><br />buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388691837737324814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79479674353779784952018-09-13T15:04:02.619-05:002018-09-13T15:04:02.619-05:00Women have had the chance to write books since the...Women have had the chance to write books since the early 19th Century. See Jane Austen, George Eliot, etc.<br /><br />They didn't back in Greek and Roman times. And? <br /><br />What am i supposed to do with that? Not read Greek and Roman Books? <br /><br />At some point the "What about women and POC?" complaint gets annoying and weird. <br /><br /><br />rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70711383808914287962018-09-13T14:23:45.338-05:002018-09-13T14:23:45.338-05:00Late to this party. As a Johnny (mid-Eighties Ann...Late to this party. As a Johnny (mid-Eighties Annapolis vintage) daily reader here--and an occasional commentator--I'm delighted in Althouse's typically astute selection of what appeals to students who go to St. John's. It's even better.Cookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16329771081004281769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54895353434386780222018-09-13T14:22:44.764-05:002018-09-13T14:22:44.764-05:00Late to this party. As a Johnny (mid-Eighties Ann...Late to this party. As a Johnny (mid-Eighties Annapolis vintage) daily reader here--and an occasional commentator--I'm delighted in Althouse's typically astute selection of what appeals to students who go to St. John's. It's even better.Cookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16329771081004281769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81999570197303565972018-09-13T12:36:16.938-05:002018-09-13T12:36:16.938-05:00Job my non-Catholic program included Augustine and...Job my non-Catholic program included Augustine and Aquinas (and Calvin). Didn't count Augustine as non-western.readeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699913625782012426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71041556437485708012018-09-13T11:42:44.114-05:002018-09-13T11:42:44.114-05:001) If you can't figure out even a single plaus...<i>1) If you can't figure out even a single plausible theory for women have not had as much influence as some of those men without appealing to the lack of quality intellectual work from women...</i><br /><br />1) Quality intellectual ideas that didn't have influence on other thinkers are, because of that lack of influence, less important than ones that did. No theory of why they are less influential actually increases their importance.<br /><br />2) Women as a group produced less work of the first rate than men even after controlling for influence. Theories about why that is so don't somehow make the works never written available to current undergraduates to study.<br /><br />Thus theories about why different groups made first-rate works at different rates do absolutely nothing to address the question of what existing works should be in a curriculum. Which <i>really</i> should have been so obvious it didn't actually need saying.<br /><br />Incidentally, I see my confidence that you would demonstrate my point is shown to be fully justified. Challenged to name two women, you provided one name, of a woman whose work was certainly not of the first rank. (But don't take my word for it; take that of Virginia Woolfe. She's the one who said Cavendish's work was "crack-brained".)Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05138730966226244399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68013897319205657982018-09-13T11:04:37.976-05:002018-09-13T11:04:37.976-05:00St. Mary's in Moraga, CA is another Great Book...St. Mary's in Moraga, CA is another Great Books school. Our oldest son nearly went there, but chose a different path.<br /><br /><i>In an alternate universe where men are barefoot and pregnant, raise the children, and manage the household.</i><br /><br />Or one in which women gained more intrinsic satisfaction from competition and status. Not that we don't crave those things to some extent (everyone likes recognition), but it hasn't been my experience that women in general care about them quite as much as men (in general) do.<br /><br />Biology does shape our lives to some extent. That said, I am glad my daughters in law have more easy choices than I did, and that I had a less difficult path than my mother or grandmothers. Still, both my grandmothers were college grads with careers of their own.<br /><br />My mother never went to college, but she is a natural philosopher with a lively and curious mind. She tried to go back to school as an adult, but being a student, mother, and Navy wife all at the same time was more than she wanted to deal with.<br /><br />I'm sure she has some regrets - who doesn't? - but it isn't a tragedy to choose marriage and family over a career. We live so much longer now. There's time for both.Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00083557761155403492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11025658170564671302018-09-13T11:02:26.399-05:002018-09-13T11:02:26.399-05:00Composers? Fuggedaboutit.
Yep.<b>Composers? Fuggedaboutit.</b><br /><br />Yep.mockturtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507310332014103437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13166061775047557822018-09-13T10:59:46.589-05:002018-09-13T10:59:46.589-05:00It's a good thing we're not talking about ...It's a good thing we're not talking about Great Music. <br /><br />I suppose you can include Clara Schumann and Fanny Mendelssohn, but they were mainly performers.<br /><br />Composers? Fuggedaboutit.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00466932184113943306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50069394269152010202018-09-13T10:31:02.574-05:002018-09-13T10:31:02.574-05:00The reality is that not many womens' works mee...<i>The reality is that not many womens' works meet that criterion. I wouldn't go beyond that to suggest that in some alternate universe, there couldn't have been.</i><br /><br />In an alternate universe where men are barefoot and pregnant, raise the children, and manage the household.n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81488863865051684842018-09-13T10:22:05.160-05:002018-09-13T10:22:05.160-05:00My alma mater is Thomas Aquinas College, in Califo...My alma mater is Thomas Aquinas College, in California (and soon to be, God willing, in Massachusetts). The college formed in 1971 following St. John ’s lead - but with the added benefit of adhering to the Catholic magisterium and providing a philosophical framework informed by the common sense of Aristotle and the Christian realism of Thomas Aquinas. We also read a heap of St. Augustine. He was an African. That counts, right?<br /><br />fyi: https://thomasaquinas.edu<br /><br />JOBJOBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00546420633728668926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43767929399686598882018-09-13T10:21:23.740-05:002018-09-13T10:21:23.740-05:00How do we know what stands the test of time, when ...<b> How do we know what stands the test of time, when much has only recently been re-discovered? Sun Tzu? </b><br /><br />Sun-tzu has hardly been 'recently rediscovered'. By parts of the West, perhaps. mockturtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507310332014103437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91001595308425604592018-09-13T09:21:47.787-05:002018-09-13T09:21:47.787-05:00My program has dropped Ulysses, probably for the s...<i>My program has dropped Ulysses, probably for the same reason I couldn't finish it.<br /></i>My roommate was the only one in his class who did.<br />Ralph Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915708905660273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61074756615273489732018-09-13T09:19:08.737-05:002018-09-13T09:19:08.737-05:00"Who do I have to sleep with to get on this b...<i>"Who do I have to sleep with to get on this booklist?"</i><br /><br />Well played :)Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00083557761155403492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33482273900854972922018-09-13T09:11:41.089-05:002018-09-13T09:11:41.089-05:00Ralph, I was trying to make that point. I don'...Ralph, I was trying to make that point. I don't know enough non-western philosophy and science to offer suggestions. I thought I would was taught a great program. But it's worth a great school like st John's exploring where they could further develop. My program has dropped Ulysses, probably for the same reason I couldn't finish it.readeringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699913625782012426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76145267824354038632018-09-13T09:09:37.672-05:002018-09-13T09:09:37.672-05:00"Who do I have to sleep with to get on this b..."Who do I have to sleep with to get on this booklist?"<br /><br />#ReadMeTooRalph Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915708905660273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88353308224058697472018-09-13T08:38:23.152-05:002018-09-13T08:38:23.152-05:00When I was young woman and still in school, I alwa...When I was young woman and still in school, I always attributed the relative lack of females writers and thinkers among the classical Western canon more to lack of opportunity and professional contacts than to lack of ability/inclination. In any profession, people network and work harder to promote the work of in-group peers than perceived outsiders. That's just human nature, and it affects both men and women.<br /><br />So it puzzles me to see so many men cite the absence of great books authored by women as though that somehow "proves" women aren't capable of great thoughts or works. That doesn't logically follow.<br /><br />It's an entirely valid point (IMNSHO) to argue that we needn't study some arbitrary percentage-based number of female-authored classical works because.... fairness!!11!. That's a revisionist version of intellectual affirmative action that only reinforces the view that women can't hold their own.<br /><br />Men and women, even today, make different choices for entirely valid reasons. Sometimes, I think we confuse quantity with quality and fame with merit. I'd wager there are quite a few truly great books lurking in history that simply never received the attention they deserved - and that number would include works by both men and a few women. The numbers don't have to be equal.<br /><br />Great books study works that were influential - i.e., widely read and discussed - in their day (that's why they help us understand the foundations of modern thought and institutions). The reality is that not many womens' works meet that criterion. I wouldn't go beyond that to suggest that in some alternate universe, there couldn't have been. <br /><br />We'll probably never know :p And frankly, the answer doesn't matter all that much to me (writing 'as a woman'). <br /><br /> Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00083557761155403492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53851412159146588962018-09-13T08:32:50.985-05:002018-09-13T08:32:50.985-05:00An SJC alum (or anyone who actually read that peri...<i>An SJC alum (or anyone who actually read that period of history...or even anyone who watched 'Cleopatra') would know [who burned some old library].</i><br /><br />But it's such a trivial incident because they didn't know jack-shit about much of anything back then; a folk-knowledge of human behavior, and some primitive engineering (wood 'n' rocks), on anything else they'd easily be out-smarted by a clever modern 10-year old.<br /><br />"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." -- HandeyFernandinandehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11253225431705407699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35960801920724801732018-09-13T08:07:45.779-05:002018-09-13T08:07:45.779-05:00Just because you, a random crank oldie on the Inte...<i> Just because you, a random crank oldie on the Internet, does not know of them means only that you are a random crank on the Internet.</i><br /><br /><br />So, staring at his gauntlet, you can only mutter 'patriarchy' and dredge up one name.<br /><br />Do you think this makes you seem the more intellectually credible one?<br />FIDOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768886981584556497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22815609255602751582018-09-13T08:06:01.176-05:002018-09-13T08:06:01.176-05:00Alexandria was a politically unstable place ever s...Alexandria was a politically unstable place ever since its founding (that whole 'diversity brings great unstability' thing: Greeks and Egyptians going head to head all the time)<br /><br />In the case of expanding your knowledge, perhaps you might wish to start at Wiki and go from there.<br />FIDOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04768886981584556497noreply@blogger.com