tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post3573893642727015506..comments2024-03-28T21:09:56.223-05:00Comments on Althouse: 74 conservative bloggers answer the question "Which of the following candidates would you most prefer to see as the GOP’s 2016 candidate?Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88892103507317204812012-11-28T15:01:38.535-06:002012-11-28T15:01:38.535-06:00JR: Obama's margin over Romney was bigger than...JR: Obama's margin over Romney was bigger than the entire Libertarian vote in EVERY STATE he won. So even if your fallacious argument about all Libertarians being Republican voters otherwise were true, it would have made no difference in the presidential election.<br /><br /><i>if they vote for the guy who CAN'T win at an election of this magnitude ...</i><br />But you haven't even tried to address my questions. If you are a Republican who just lost this presidential election, you can be angry at those who voted Libertarian (even though those votes would not have changed the outcome of the presidential race), but what you really need to address is not who needs to get OUT of the party, but how do you get more people IN?? What political positions are you recommending that the GOP take in the next election that at once are unwelcoming to Libertarians but draw MORE people into the big tent?<br /><br /><i>you lost. But keep pretending.</i><br />WE, both of us, lost. With a winning margin greater than all other candidates combined. How do WE change that? In your world, we wait for a shittier Democratic candidate, I guess.Calypso Factohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455217189407301218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84542147171635098762012-11-28T09:02:50.010-06:002012-11-28T09:02:50.010-06:00Or as willy wonks told Charlie:
It's all ther...Or as willy wonks told Charlie:<br /><b> It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! </b>You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, <b>so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! </b><br />Though actually you do get something. You get statism and biggest govt. so maybe you win!<br />No, you lost.<br />But keep pretending.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42773870524776926972012-11-27T23:35:50.968-06:002012-11-27T23:35:50.968-06:00Calypso wrote:
Let me change tack and ask you this...Calypso wrote:<br />Let me change tack and ask you this: what part of the GOP platform would you change to "get [Liberatarians] out of the tent"? The pretense of fiscal responsibility? Or something else? How will whatever change you posit garner more GOP votes?<br /><br> if they vote for the guy who CAN'T win at an election of this magnitude, then they are not serious about fiscal responsibility. And are not reliable as voters. <br /><br />My guess is, as soon as the next election rolls around they're going to flake out again because the republican nominee isn't pure enough. And we'll get yet more Democrats. Are democrats pure enough for you libertarians?<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73833680434966251272012-11-27T23:31:47.332-06:002012-11-27T23:31:47.332-06:00Calypso,
Right now were about to face the fiscal c...Calypso,<br />Right now were about to face the fiscal cliff, and I'm SURE you are going to hold repubs to account if they don't toe the line and not raise axes.<br />They are in that position though because Romney is not president. Ok?<br />There would be a different outcome if he were. So whatever you think liberatiarians gained by not voting for the squish you're going to lose by making repubs the party that only holds the house.<br />Whereas, if they held the house and presidency, I don't care how squishy Romney, he wouldn't be holding republicans over a barrel.<br />So there was a pronounced difference, and libertarians (who didn't vote Romney, but who normally vote Republican) shouldn't then give lectures about republicans caving when they're put in an u tenable position.<br />And if you really cared about fiscal responsibility, you wouldn't vote for the guy who has no chance of winning, when the outcome is republicans will then find it much harder to,be fiscally responsible because they only control the house.<br />Squish or no, if the repubs hold the house and the presidency, Romney is not going to demagogue republicans about not raising taxes on the rich. He would have the bully pulpit AND the House and could have used the bully pulpit to marginalized DEmocrats.<br /><br />FR what's his face offers weak sauce and then gets offended that I think he's a retard. <br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67392307001969845852012-11-27T13:25:11.585-06:002012-11-27T13:25:11.585-06:00I think you can reasonable say that the libertaria...<i>I think you can reasonable say that the libertarian did swing the election to the democrat in those 9 cases</i><br /><br />I know that's what you'd LIKE to say, and it's an interesting hypothesis, but it isn't supported by anything you've mentioned or shown so far. A Democrat can cull through the same data, come up with a number of races in which the Republican won by a margin of votes fewer than the Libertarian vote total and make the same claim. In Colorado, for instance, there was significant concern among Dems about voters crossing over to vote Libertarian in conjunction with the legalized pot referendum. <br /><br />Let me change tack and ask you this: what part of the GOP platform would you change to "get [Liberatarians] out of the tent"? The pretense of fiscal responsibility? Or something else? How will whatever change you posit garner more GOP votes?Calypso Factohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455217189407301218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40638082726662139852012-11-27T10:59:31.575-06:002012-11-27T10:59:31.575-06:00Calypso wrote:
But that's not what you or the ...Calypso wrote:<br />But that's not what you or the article you posted said. It only said that in 9 races nationwide (out of what, 500?) the Dem won over the Rep with a margin of votes fewer than the Lib candidate received. There is simply no way to extrapolate from this information that Libertarian voting cost the Republican the race without making enormous and likely false assumptions.<br /><br> I think you can reasonable say that the libertarian did swing the election to the democrat in those 9 cases. What those 9 cases are Im not sure.But I don't want to lose ANY races.Especially when people are supposedly voting for their interests and instead allowing the person least likely to act in their interest to vote instead.<br /><br /><br />Now, if they woudn't vote Republican anyway then we have to question how much Republicans should rely on libertarians as a member of their coalition. if not, then we shoudln't waste time on them anymore but get them out of the tent. My assumption though was that libertarians by and large vote Republican because they are into small govt.<br />They just got, not bigger govt but BIGGEST govt. There is zero excuse, in my opinion, for any libertarian to vote third party at that moment in time unless they thought that the Libertarian had a chance of wining. Did he? <br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8467942707080612032012-11-27T10:51:17.125-06:002012-11-27T10:51:17.125-06:00Baron Zemo wrote:
Exactly my dear boy. That is in ...Baron Zemo wrote:<br />Exactly my dear boy. That is in fact the point.<br /><br />We won't be fooled again.<br /><br> A RINO is still better than a hard leftist. So your choices are the bad option or the worst option. The best option is not avaiable. (referring to this election not potentially future elections).<br />If you decide to go off on a tangent and choose the best option even though it's not a realistic option and has no chance of coming to fruition than rather than accepting the bad option you in fact allow for the WORST option.<br />A RINO may be a RINO, but he is beholden to his constituencies. If Romney continues to act like a RINO, he can be voted out. He can be kept to his conservatism by people like the tea party holding him to account. <br />Take but one example. Obamacare. Many of the provisions had yet to be implemented and wouldn't till after the election. You had only one candidate that said they would do anything about Obamacare. So, if you don't vote for the one guy who even expressed a desire to do anything about OBamacare, then you'll get the candidate who brought Obamacare into being in te first place. And make it that much harder for future Republicans to undo the mess. Further, there are republicans in the House who have tried to overturn Obamacare. Even if he is a RINO, do you really think Romney would work against the House to undo Obamacare? That stretches all credibility. But getting Obama in for another four years means that those parts of Obamacare yet to be implemented that culd have been avoided, will now go through. <br />Take taxes, take energy. There were fundamental differences between Romney and Obama, and if youre a conservative, one of those positions would be appealing to you and one wouldn't. Even if the messenger is flawed, at least he's still preaching the message. The other guy wasn't even pretending to preach the message, and will give you exactly the opposite of what you wanted (unless you're a liberal in which case you got exactly what you wanted)<br /> <br /><br />So, you WILL get fooled again, OVER AND OVER. <br />The bottom line, Obama is in the office. You had a chance to do your part to get him out,and you didn't. So enjoy Obama for the next four years. <br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36371713194993037542012-11-27T09:06:01.284-06:002012-11-27T09:06:01.284-06:00And certainly its apparent that in those 9 races t...<i>And certainly its apparent that in those 9 races they gave the seat to a democrat.</i><br /><br />No, it isn't. At all.<br /><br />Look, JR, I actually agree with you to the extent that a person in a competitive district who would have voted for a Republican but voted Libertarian instead may have helped elect their LEAST favorite candidate. <br /><br />But that's not what you or the article you posted said. It only said that in 9 races nationwide (out of what, 500?) the Dem won over the Rep with a margin of votes fewer than the Lib candidate received. There is simply no way to extrapolate from this information that Libertarian voting cost the Republican the race without making enormous and likely false assumptions.Calypso Factohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455217189407301218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7033568254627782292012-11-27T07:36:06.524-06:002012-11-27T07:36:06.524-06:00Here is what I say.
No more middle of the roaders...Here is what I say.<br /><br />No more middle of the roaders. The mighty middle has spoken, and failed.Dantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07393170116669470751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73616337611797622392012-11-26T23:50:18.013-06:002012-11-26T23:50:18.013-06:00Wait...what?.......no Alan Keyes?
*sniffle* *snif...Wait...what?.......no Alan Keyes?<br /><br />*sniffle* *sniffle*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31749630150698051122012-11-26T20:22:50.452-06:002012-11-26T20:22:50.452-06:00Dunno ... Harry S Truman seemed to do alright.
(H...Dunno ... Harry S Truman seemed to do alright.<br /><br />(Harry S Truman was the last president not to have graduated (or IIRC even attended) college.)southcentralpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394514417579609775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54028666170274227172012-11-26T18:51:39.509-06:002012-11-26T18:51:39.509-06:00"Joe Schmoe said...
A more or less liberal R...<b>"Joe Schmoe said... <br />A more or less liberal Rhino governor of a Eastern state had no chance. Nor should he. He is not representative of the Repubilcan party as a whole.<br /><br />You just described Mitt Romney, Baron."</b><br /><br />Exactly my dear boy. That is in fact the point.<br /><br />We won't be fooled again.Baron Zemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17301531733692419610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80165981702212675632012-11-26T18:48:20.581-06:002012-11-26T18:48:20.581-06:00Jeb Bush will make a fine GOP nominee in 2016. His...Jeb Bush will make a fine GOP nominee in 2016. His father was a good President and his brother was not, but .500 is a pretty good batting average. Plus, sibling rivalry might encourage him to elevate his game. I welcome him! somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15285453805456590162012-11-26T18:41:13.944-06:002012-11-26T18:41:13.944-06:00FR Martin Fox wrote:
Look, you had hope in Romney;...FR Martin Fox wrote:<br />Look, you had hope in Romney; then if you voted for him that was coherent. I had no hope in him; in fact, had he won, I would have been truly depressed. Now, I think we have better chance of winning. Nothing is certain.<br /><br> And I would argue that getting Romney woudl be getting the foot in the door to get what you want achieved. You'll now have to wait four more years to even have a chance to compete. What will change about the republican party that will make you not remember the past? What if the candidate isn't perfect in every way? Four more years again?<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66884436837946455002012-11-26T18:31:23.981-06:002012-11-26T18:31:23.981-06:00I agree that you did. But I don't agree with t...I agree that you did. But I don't agree with the point.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40092838102534954162012-11-26T18:25:05.389-06:002012-11-26T18:25:05.389-06:00JR:
It's not a question of "mean".....JR:<br /><br />It's not a question of "mean"...I don't care about that. I'm not a delicate flower.<br /><br />It's a question of wasted effort.<br /><br />I made my point. Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3342649964761442572012-11-26T18:23:01.404-06:002012-11-26T18:23:01.404-06:00FR Martin,
I'm sorry if you think I"m bei...FR Martin,<br />I'm sorry if you think I"m being mean.I'm trying to tell that making the perfect the enemy of hte good and thus getting the bad is not a smart move. Neither is cutting off your nose to spite your face.Im arguing in good faith with you too. If i came across as too personal then I apologize.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90250104166968620322012-11-26T18:19:07.249-06:002012-11-26T18:19:07.249-06:00Fr Martin wrote:
I'm not complaining. I think ...Fr Martin wrote:<br />I'm not complaining. I think you are.<br /><br> You've been complaining about Obama on these boards.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30673101992772162972012-11-26T18:15:52.451-06:002012-11-26T18:15:52.451-06:00JR:
I'm not going to argue with you. I made a...JR:<br /><br />I'm not going to argue with you. I made a good faith attempt to respond to your point. That's it.<br /><br />Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26366137674021287042012-11-26T18:14:53.094-06:002012-11-26T18:14:53.094-06:00FR Martin Fox wrote:
The GOP has given us a whole ...FR Martin Fox wrote:<br />The GOP has given us a whole train of barges of BIG GOVERNMENT.<br /><br> And Obama gave you even bigger govt. Romney argued that he would try to shrink govt spending. You have the certainty that one won't and you have the bitter taste in your mouth of past experiences with the other party, but at least the potential that he will not dissapoint like the others. Plus, if he were in charge, and had the House he could be held to his promises from people like yourself and me. Now, you're left with the CERTAINTY that you will get exactly what you don't want.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89630915845393980062012-11-26T18:05:35.322-06:002012-11-26T18:05:35.322-06:00JR:
I'm not complaining. I think you are.JR:<br /><br />I'm not complaining. I think you are.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18273428371945789142012-11-26T18:03:11.982-06:002012-11-26T18:03:11.982-06:00FR Martin Fox wrote:
Look, you had hope in Romney;...FR Martin Fox wrote:<br />Look, you had hope in Romney; then if you voted for him that was coherent. I had no hope in him; in fact, had he won, I would have been truly depressed. Now, I think we have better chance of winning. Nothing is certain.<br /><br> I guess you're trying to do the rope a dope. (emphasis on dope). Here's the thing though. You have to win some rounds when doing the rope a dope, otherwise someone is just punching you while you lean against the ropes.<br />And sorry, there is certainty. The certainty that you will get 4 more years of Obama. Enjoy it, and please don't complain.<br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75153266523048274882012-11-26T17:59:35.982-06:002012-11-26T17:59:35.982-06:00JR:
You know, I tried really hard to make my poin...JR:<br /><br />You know, I tried really hard to make my point respectfully and courteously.<br /><br />Obviously wasted.<br /><br />The GOP has given us a whole train of barges of BIG GOVERNMENT.<br /><br />I'm really tired of people explaining why voting for that was "really" voting for small government, someday.<br /><br />Obama is the son and successor to George W. Bush.<br /><br />I didn't vote for George W. Bush. Obama is the fruit of those who did.<br /><br />Also, I give other folks credit for thinking seriously about what they decide when they vote. I'd appreciate the courtesy in return.<br /><br />But maybe that's too much to ask.<br /><br />Some people bow down to the golden idol because they figure, hey, what can we do?<br /><br />Good luck with that.Fr Martin Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01375628123126091747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81080885342634181852012-11-26T17:41:05.493-06:002012-11-26T17:41:05.493-06:00Dems learned this lesson when some of the more foo...Dems learned this lesson when some of the more foolish voters decided, decided to vote for Ralph Nader. They then got Bush. Most didn't make that mistake again.<br />Libertarians seem to make that mistake over and over. <br />jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36994240843133902622012-11-26T17:36:27.035-06:002012-11-26T17:36:27.035-06:00Fr Martin wrote:
Agreed. How many times must peopl...Fr Martin wrote:<br />Agreed. How many times must people bite the same apple, and throw up, before they say no more?<br /><br> YOu could say the same about your support for third party candidates. How many times are you going to waste your vote because the perfect Ronald Reagan isn't on the ballot before you realize that it's wasted and stupid vote.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/06250384040393259866noreply@blogger.com