tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post3543763486128234685..comments2024-03-28T18:07:30.515-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Democrats Clinch Vote on Health Debate."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger184125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27513994566987283702009-11-22T17:39:12.879-06:002009-11-22T17:39:12.879-06:00It’s arrogant to dump 15 million low-income Americ...<i>It’s arrogant to dump 15 million low-income Americans into a medical ghetto called Medicaid that none of us or any of our families would ever want to join.</i> -- Lamar Alexander<br /><br />I'd like to highlight that once more.<br /><br />I just wonder if it's arrogant for a U.S. Senator to dump 300 million American families into a health care system that U.S. Senators wouldn't want to join.marinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03435598676103731157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30172573544067604002009-11-22T16:58:40.420-06:002009-11-22T16:58:40.420-06:00From Steve Lopez's column in today's L.A. ...From Steve Lopez's column in today's L.A. Times:<br /><br />OK, so a weekend athlete is playing soccer with his pals in Santa Monica, tries to make a stop and butts heads with an opposing player.<br /><br />Our warrior goes down in a heap, stands up, touches his head and realizes he's bleeding.<br /><br />So Lance Budris, who happens to be a doctor, is out of the game and on his way to get patched up.<br /><br />"I thought about calling a friend to stitch it up," said Budris, an anesthesiologist.<br /><br />Instead, he had a friend drive him to a Westside hospital, where he walked into the emergency room in his soccer gear, holding a bloody towel to his head.<br /><br />After a short wait, a nurse took his vitals, an ER tech washed the gash with a saline solution and he got a tetanus shot because he couldn't remember when he'd had his last one.<br /><br />Then the doctor came in, draped the area and sutured the wound, a two-layer job that required 29 stitches. Budris was on his way roughly two hours after arriving at the hospital.<br /><br />The bill arrived last month.<br /><br />Two bills, one for ER costs and one for the doctor's fee, totaled nearly $5,000.<br /><br />For one thing, he could barely understand the bill sent him by the hospital, which he asked me not to name. <br /><br />Instead, it's a snapshot of a healthcare system gone mad, in which doctors are discouraged, hospitals go out of business and costs are inflated in a shell game between health insurance companies and medical service providers, while the patients who pay their bills get shafted.<br /><br />But back to Budris' bill. It listed something called "M/S SUPPLY GENERAL," which came to $1,247. Then there was another $2,425 for "EMERGENCY ROOM GENERAL."<br /><br />"I'm a doctor and I can't tell you what all of that means," said Budris when we met for coffee and went over the bill together.<br /><br />Then there was $360 for "PREVENTIVE CARE VACCINE," the tetanus booster.(A shot that the doctor himself buys for his practice at $27.00 a pop.)Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25570547669983027682009-11-22T14:35:24.562-06:002009-11-22T14:35:24.562-06:00Surely you don't think that so-called Universa...<i>Surely you don't think that so-called Universal Health Care includes hamster? Even a leftist can't be that clueless.</i><br /><br />The only hamsters covered will be the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM9lpP51LPw" rel="nofollow">Lemmiwinks</a> that chew their way to freedom.<br /><br />Lemmiwinks is from the episode aptly named Death Camp of Tolerance.kentuckylizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08110491371985845560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16770033659882909972009-11-22T13:43:47.408-06:002009-11-22T13:43:47.408-06:00And by the way, there's nothing in this health...<i>And by the way, there's nothing in this health care bill that requires you to buy insurance from any specific entity. You can buy it anywhere you want...so the rest of us who do actually pay for insurance...don't have to pay higher costs to support those who dop not.</i><br /><br />And there is nothing in either the Senate or House version of this monstrosity that preserves my right to high-deductible insurance. I've put my arguments forth in previous threads and I'd link to them but I know you won't even fucking read them.<br /><br />You're just a willful shill Jeremy.<br /><br />Pathetic<br /><br />Duh.chickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64546889604411509902009-11-22T12:36:24.980-06:002009-11-22T12:36:24.980-06:00Darcy - "See, they just don't get that, A...Darcy - "See, they just don't get that, Andrea. Everyone who has fallen on hard times must want others to support them - by force."<br /><br />What does that even mean?<br /><br />Are you saying people who are compassionate are really just assholes "forcing" their compassion on others?<br /><br />Or are you saying that when someone is in need, and the government provides services such as veteran's benefits, unemployment insurances payments, child welfare, Medicare or Medicaid, etc...they're really "forcing" these taxpayer supported services on these people?<br /><br />If that's the case, I suggest you yourself, and be sure to pass this along to your friends, never accept such forced services or assistance from any government agency.<br /><br />And by the way, there's nothing in this health care bill that requires you to buy insurance from any specific entity. You can buy it anywhere you want...so the rest of us who do actually pay for insurance...don't have to pay higher costs to support those who dop not.<br /><br />Why is it so difficult for you and other wing nuts here to understand this?<br /><br />Are you really that dense?Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60131458310560917012009-11-22T12:26:24.374-06:002009-11-22T12:26:24.374-06:00Andrea "Well, dcm, in my case you'd be wr...Andrea "Well, dcm, in my case you'd be wrong. I'm unemployed and haven't had health insurance for two years. I'm against this stupid plan."<br /><br />And guess what...<br /><br />If you have a real problem, you'll run right into an emergency ward, be taken care of...and if it's something you can't possibly pay for (unemployed)...and the cost of service will be at the expense of others who do have health insurance (that's what creates the higher costs, the spreading out of the expense of serving those without insurance), along with the taxpayers.<br /><br />And this is precisely why we need some kind of coverage for those who cannot afford to pay themselves.<br /><br />Duh.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66343565315526103122009-11-22T12:25:30.454-06:002009-11-22T12:25:30.454-06:00See, they just don't get that, Andrea. Everyon...See, they just don't get that, Andrea. Everyone who has fallen on hard times <i>must</i> want others to support them - by force. By taking some of theirs. It's just how it's done. Any other thinking is not allowed. It's not <i>compassionate</i>.<br /><br />I wish you the best of luck in your search for employment.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62631906792771981092009-11-22T10:57:51.455-06:002009-11-22T10:57:51.455-06:00"my guess is that all of you who are against ..."my guess is that all of you who are against this have fine health insurance."<br /><br />Well, dcm, in my case you'd be wrong. I'm unemployed and haven't had health insurance for two years. I'm against this stupid plan.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01413541711301513897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82903162227588563592009-11-22T10:57:04.872-06:002009-11-22T10:57:04.872-06:00which boils down to
A) I trust NPR to do my think...which boils down to<br /><br />A) I trust NPR to do my thinking for me (Dittos, Laxmi Singh)<br />B) Instead of reading publically availably e-mail text, I will refuse to look at it because my mind is made up based upon old evidence.millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06288790458928188846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8250702002681293032009-11-22T10:45:28.761-06:002009-11-22T10:45:28.761-06:00Bruce,
If you had read the link you'd know th...Bruce,<br /><br />If you had read the link you'd know that those aren't my experts. Some even have an R background.<br /><br />And, I have never spent any time looking into the science associated w/ climate change. I can guarantee you that I've never commented on this, because I haven't (unlike w/ health care) bothered to read about the issue. <br /><br />In fact, the little bit that I do know about climate change would direct me towards being a skeptic, though w/o much conviction because I haven't looked at the subject. My weak, uninformed skepticism is based on:<br /><br />1) Al Gore is for it.<br />2) When I was in school (Chem E) we needed to take a couple classes outside of our field. So, I took a very high level Fisheries class where we modeled environmental impacts on fish populations. This class used the exact systemologies that were actually used by professionals in the field. But, this modeling was complete BS, and the Fisheries folks were all dolts. So, I'm biased against all of these environmental sciences because I consider them to be folks who were too dumb to be real engineers.<br />3) A while back (maybe four months) NPR had an hour long program that was dedicated to piece by piece picking apart the phony, bad science origins of all this climate hype. I don't recall the names of the extremely well qualified anti-climate change experts who were interviewed, and I don't recall the names of the climate hype folks who's arguments were completely devastated. But, I wouldn't be surprised if these recently revealed emails implicated some of the folks that NPR had already thoroughly discredited. The NPR program systematically and thoroughly ripped apart the origins of climate hype as well as the ongoing propping up of the climate hype.<br /><br />Anyway, unlike with climate change, I have looked into health care here and abroad. Additionally, I know a lot of folks in all sorts of positions in health care. And, the sober assessments provided at my earlier link are right on the money, unlike the climate change hype.Sprezzaturahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859397164637821056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81261422119036707922009-11-22T10:06:49.719-06:002009-11-22T10:06:49.719-06:00Even a leftist can't be that clueless.
Sucker...<i>Even a leftist can't be that clueless.</i><br /><br />Sucker bet. ;)kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11274416342492953621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77780327219560055142009-11-22T10:02:51.357-06:002009-11-22T10:02:51.357-06:00Understand point FAIL
The point is that even hams...Understand point FAIL<br /><br />The point is that even hamsters don't want slavery.<br /><br />Surely you don't think that so-called Universal Health Care includes hamster? Even a leftist can't be that clueless.millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06288790458928188846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10452643527515929162009-11-22T09:57:03.101-06:002009-11-22T09:57:03.101-06:00Note that the East German hamsters were chewing th...<i>Note that the East German hamsters were chewing through their tubes to reach a country with universal health care, with a government plan mandatory for earners up to a certain level. If this be freedom, make the most of it.</i><br /><br />Pffft. Bismarck gave both sides universal coverage before the two sides were split apart. <br />The Ossies clamored for Mercedes-Benz instead of Trabant- that's what really drove them.<br /><br />wv: "eydro" as in "eydroelectric"- the real power of tears.chickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17726537517989498082009-11-22T09:32:16.135-06:002009-11-22T09:32:16.135-06:00Note that the East German hamsters were chewing th...Note that the East German hamsters were chewing through their tubes to reach a country with universal health care, with a government plan mandatory for earners up to a certain level. If this be freedom, make the most of it.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68494582675418207662009-11-22T08:39:02.574-06:002009-11-22T08:39:02.574-06:00Wow! I just read through most of the content at th...Wow! I just read through most of the content at those links, Kent!<br /><br />Simply amazing. <br /><br />And even more amazing is the "circling of the wagons" by the MSM.millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06288790458928188846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49337502883042238312009-11-22T03:12:49.583-06:002009-11-22T03:12:49.583-06:00I guess I am a bit down on "experts" tod...<i>I guess I am a bit down on "experts" today, after discovering that the leading climate change "experts" have been fudging results and gaming the peer review process as hard and as fast as they can to prove to us that we need to spend more trillions to combat what is looking more and more like a non-problem.</i><br /><br />Yup. Outstanding "real time" analysis of all of said data taking place <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/21/cru-emails-search-engine-now-online/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/20/mikes-nature-trick/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/22/bishop-hills-compendium-of-cru-email-issues/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, even as we speak! ;)kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11274416342492953621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5642100393933428512009-11-22T02:52:17.173-06:002009-11-22T02:52:17.173-06:001jpb
Your "experts" are paid hacks too....1jpb<br /><br />Your "experts" are paid hacks too. <br /><br />Only fools trust the experts on either side to be straight with them. The games that both Houses of Congress are using to fudge the figures and try to pretend that their versions of health care "reform" aren't going to be insanely expensive are too well known by now to even really to be that debatable. <br /><br />I guess I am a bit down on "experts" today, after discovering that the leading climate change "experts" have been fudging results and gaming the peer review process as hard and as fast as they can to prove to us that we need to spend more trillions to combat what is looking more and more like a non-problem. <br /><br />WV: sumorthe - can't decide if that is something that would be more useful for me when I was in mathematics, software, or now as an attorney. Maybe a combination of all three.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22601644893151741022009-11-22T02:45:21.022-06:002009-11-22T02:45:21.022-06:00"there are serious, experienced, and unbiased..."<i>there are serious, experienced, and unbiased folks who really like the Senate product.</i>"<br /><br />Hard to believe, since I would suggest that you would have to start with a bias in order to believe that there was a need for any of this. <br /><br />In short, calling someone unbiased, or having them call themselves unbiased hardly proves that it is so. <br /><br />And, believing that there is a need for this legislation in the midst of the biggest recession of most of our lifetimes is a major bias. Is it really worth it to destroy the current system in order to give 5-10% of the population more extensive health care, while deepening and extending the recession as a result? I don't think so, but I will admit my biases. Will they?Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18393996547076534922009-11-22T01:07:40.162-06:002009-11-22T01:07:40.162-06:00I wonder if Ann has considered that her vote and s...I wonder if Ann has considered that her vote and support for Obama from her relatively powerful perch may have reduced her lifespan in a tangible way. It only takes one unlucky diagnosis. Terribly, terribly sad. Since I have taken the threat of socialism seriously, rather than subscribing to a zippy "cruel neutrality" stunt, at least if this government smothers me I will have gone down fighting and I will know it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675338435887395176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36343035643865393152009-11-22T00:41:12.337-06:002009-11-22T00:41:12.337-06:00I hope Jindal is doing well and cleaning things up...<i>I hope Jindal is doing well and cleaning things up.</i><br /><br />He's not, and it's not in his interest to do so. The ethics "reforms" he championed exclude the governor's office and staff, and there are no enforcement mechanisms.<br /><br />But our U.S. attorney, Jim Letten, is going full-steam, and has the support of most liberals and conservatives who care about changing the culture of corruption in our state.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70916081311418993992009-11-21T23:22:40.091-06:002009-11-21T23:22:40.091-06:00Clinch away!
A clinch a day reduces health care ...Clinch away! <br /><br />A clinch a day reduces health care expenditures.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73394087143134864392009-11-21T23:12:04.402-06:002009-11-21T23:12:04.402-06:00And, could you take a moment to read this? You'...<i>And, could you take a moment to read this? You'll see that there are serious, experienced, and unbiased folks who really like the Senate product.</i><br /><br />Well I took a moment to read it and I think it should retitled "A Millstone In the Health Care Journey".<br /><br />Seriously, the opposition in the comment section of that article score better rhetorical pointschickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4310359457786679362009-11-21T22:57:13.479-06:002009-11-21T22:57:13.479-06:00Harry Reid's comment on freedom from fear of i...Harry Reid's comment on freedom from fear of illness and [gasp] death made me remember this quote:<br /><br />"They could not understand why East Germans blessed with income equality, free social welfare and full employment should flee to the highly unequal West, which bristled with unemployment and social perils. An answer came in a letter to a newspaper editor.<br /><br />'My daughter’s hamster (a pet white mouse) has food, water, shelter and even medical care, and a cage full of fun curly tubes. The hamster responds by constantly trying to chew his way to freedom. I think we all understand what freedom is, and it is not a gilded cage.'"Sidurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02047814803514357292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57496363366459792312009-11-21T22:33:26.851-06:002009-11-21T22:33:26.851-06:00"there are serious, experienced, and unbiased...<i>"there are serious, experienced, and unbiased folks who really like the Senate product.</i>"<br /><br />Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4719538374760377382009-11-21T22:32:37.912-06:002009-11-21T22:32:37.912-06:00Let's have an agreement: you won't use Flo...Let's have an agreement: you won't use Florida as a "conservative" and we won't use Jeremy as a "liberal." We all know they're both Mobys.millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06288790458928188846noreply@blogger.com