tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post2974933831499833208..comments2024-03-29T07:54:40.631-05:00Comments on Althouse: "A witness says Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShipTwo exploded during a test flight over California’s Mojave Desert."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger137125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60767279913659332432014-11-08T13:11:57.488-06:002014-11-08T13:11:57.488-06:00I considered not posting this reasoned response in...I considered not posting this reasoned response in Wired from an engineering prof to Wired's own previous anti-space tourism article, as the comments here more than cover arguments for continued effort. But what the hey, it's Saturday. <br /><br />The article's headline was stupid so used the url wording, & in deference to regulars included the story's comments so you won't need to click to see them.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.wired.com/2014/11/in-defense-of-space-tourism/#disqus_thread" rel="nofollow">A Defense of Space Tourism</a> <br />Popvillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02299807620623256584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42325858006932656222014-11-03T14:03:43.723-06:002014-11-03T14:03:43.723-06:001) Telemetry from the flight indicates that the en...1) Telemetry from the flight indicates that the engines performed optimally throughout the flight and that the breakup was due to pilot error in deploying the "feathering" process of the wings too early.<br /><br />2) Test pilot deaths are not sanctified because the government, not a private entity, signed their paychecks.<br /><br />3) Many a useful commodity started out as a rich man's toy. When space flight is cheap enough that rich people can use it for tourism, a whole lot of other uses for it will open up.<br /><br />4) Advances like this are in my view better developed privately than waiting for government to do it. One man with a vision and the money to back it will get things done a whole lot faster - and is no more likely to get someone killed doing it.RonFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17346484258194484053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26145553239440504522014-11-03T11:02:32.995-06:002014-11-03T11:02:32.995-06:00From a leftist point of view, what's the real ...From a leftist point of view, what's the real downside? If rich people die in a space tourism accident, their money gets distributed to their heirs and foundations. Less concentration of wealth!Lorenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07920825444735982610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26375559319733786202014-11-02T01:31:25.218-06:002014-11-02T01:31:25.218-06:00Hmm. Virgin Galactic is built on a philosophical c...Hmm. Virgin Galactic is built on a philosophical commitment best articulated, in the decades prior to SpaceShipOne, by Burt Rutan. If the reader is not familiar with the DIY ethos that prevails at the EAA Fly-in at Oshkosh, nor with Scaled Composites or any of a great number of other private Aviation and Aerospace initiatives, then this is likely to be seen as nothing more than "space tourism." <br /><br />Laypersons and outsiders misjudge this. The aviation and private Aerospace community knows this is about a lot more than just how one company finances their innovations.<br /><br />When the first private company goes manned orbital for space tourism, that means that the technology that gets us into orbit will have become a commodity. THAT, folks, is what this about -- as it has been about that with running water, electric distribution, computers, cell phones, and any of a vast number of other things throughout history. Space tourism isn't the goal. It's evidence that any of a vast number of goals are more within reach than they ever were before. <br /><br />I read an utterly ignorant opinion piece lambasting Virgin for risking lives. Unbelievable. I guess they have no idea how many lives have been snuffed out in government-sponsored test flights. "But that was different!" Yes. So? Seriously -- why do some people find it unthinkable that there are folks who believe in research and development enough to risk their lives. Dick Rutan and Jeana Yeager flew around the world in one of Burt's planes in a little over a week. That was life-risking. No one was lunatic enough to write an opinion piece decrying the folly of the risks. <br /><br />Personally, I suspect such weird criticisms come from some sense that space development belongs in NASA's hands. No. That's Burt Rutan's whole argument, and again -- if the reader isn't familiar with the long history of this philosophical issue, well, it's fascinating and worth knowing. And it insulates one from saying stupid things about it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45228434933664427582014-11-01T18:47:25.232-05:002014-11-01T18:47:25.232-05:00Well, good thing it's a free country and you d...Well, good thing it's a free country and you don't get to make that call. http://www.amazon.com/Mining-The-Sky-Asteroids-Planets/dp/0201328194Dante D'Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01951848255199904671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60237526676426873942014-11-01T16:51:52.945-05:002014-11-01T16:51:52.945-05:00Then don't do it, but that should not be a rea...Then don't do it, but that should not be a reason for others not to pursue their own happiness.<br /><br />Don't Be A Nazi.<br /><br />;-)Issob Moroccohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05392541167916392868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81815340463111875552014-11-01T11:27:00.395-05:002014-11-01T11:27:00.395-05:00Then we should just quit right now. Use that money...Then we should just quit right now. Use that money for something else.<br /><br />10/31/14, 8:57 PM<br /><br /><br />I vote condoms for the lower class. They're icky. donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8282631769356030632014-11-01T11:19:06.056-05:002014-11-01T11:19:06.056-05:00Alex Tabarrok has an interesting post on space tou...Alex Tabarrok has an interesting post on space tourism. He is very much a free enterprise guy. His post begins:<br /><br />"Ten years ago when Burt Rutan was predicting 100,000 space tourists in ten years I wrote a widely debated article, Is Space Tourism Ready for Takeoff? My answer then, and my answer now, is no ..."<br /><br />http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/11/space-tourism-still-not-ready-for-flight.html<br /><br />A number of commenters essentially say, "Okay, you can't have a big space tourism industry now, but there are at least a few rich people who think it is so cool to go into space that they will willingly assume a 1 in 50 risk of getting killed."Roger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84260244666121370362014-11-01T10:47:27.009-05:002014-11-01T10:47:27.009-05:00The other thing you need to remember is that your ...<br />The other thing you need to remember is that your colonization plan requires that humanity have access to technology that is, itself, a greater existential threat to us than anything the universe is likely to fling our way.<br /><br />And you get that technology by pushing the technology you already have to the limit. And then you push it out a little bit further.<br />Magellan didn't have time to wait for the QE2 he had to explore with what he had.<br />We want space tourism to be commonplace. We want a permanent space station to be commonplace. We want a presence on the moon to be commonplace.<br />When these things become routine destinations then the next step is just a little bit easier.<br />As someone on one of the other threads noted; we weren't put here just to exist we were put here to know. it is our nature to be curious. it is also our nature to explore.<br />Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78351416344500452762014-11-01T10:36:41.820-05:002014-11-01T10:36:41.820-05:00It takes about 62,720,000 joules of energy to get ...It takes about 62,720,000 joules of energy to get 1 kilogram out of earth's "gravity well" (assuming no energy loss to friction, etc.). There is nothing arbitrary about that and no technology can change it.<br /><br />What might be possible is to find a cheap and reliable way to provide that energy to something that will spend most of its time out of the atmosphere. A jet is simple by comparison.Roger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15000671548023174662014-11-01T10:32:34.449-05:002014-11-01T10:32:34.449-05:00Ann, I'm curious to know why you are against p...Ann, I'm curious to know why you are against private space travel. How is it wrong for wealthy individuals to use their own money to fulfill a desire to slip the surly bonds of earth, but OK for astronauts to do so using tax dollars taken from rich, poor and in-between? Does space belong to government? Should early aviation pioneers, most being private individuals using their own money, have been prevented from flying?<br /><br />10/31/14, 2:47 PM<br /><br />They should just give it all the poor people. <br /><br />Whoops, the gubmint. They'll get it to the poor people after they get their cut. <br /><br />What doesn't need to happen, is an entrepreneur or a group of entrepreneurs should start a business and hire a bunch of people resulting in actual economic development and advances in science and mankind. <br /><br />That would suck. <br /><br /><br />donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65634583319734443862014-11-01T10:22:03.764-05:002014-11-01T10:22:03.764-05:00You're.You're. donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41159809248026702032014-11-01T10:21:26.201-05:002014-11-01T10:21:26.201-05:00Iwhen I think low class the first name that comes ...Iwhen I think low class the first name that comes to mind me is Bill Clinton and his skank wife.<br /><br />Al Sharpton Kinda enters my mind. <br /><br />But I get it you kind of thinking garage Mahal<br /><br /><br /><br /> donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63073258543521793152014-11-01T10:17:25.878-05:002014-11-01T10:17:25.878-05:00We middle and lower class people are asked to cons...We middle and lower class people are asked to conserve and be careful about our carbon footprint. <br /><br />I think most travel is self-indulgent from the environmental perspective. But space tourism is clearly the worst.<br /><br />10/31/14, 2:47 PM<br /><br /><br />Why don't you define lower-class there toots. donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64653194887714945552014-11-01T10:15:59.986-05:002014-11-01T10:15:59.986-05:00"No, by all means let's just sit around a..."No, by all means let's just sit around and wait for the government to do everything."<br /><br />Do what? Take rich people on a joy ride. I don't want government doing that either.<br /><br />10/31/14, 2:46 PM<br /><br /><br />This is so funny in so many different ways. donaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336032631356999367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15062130347683040582014-11-01T09:58:26.504-05:002014-11-01T09:58:26.504-05:00"Earth sits at the bottom of a deep gravity w..."<i>Earth sits at the bottom of a deep gravity well. You will always--always, always, always--need lots of energy to "slip the surly bonds of earth." Which means it always will be expensive--unless we can develop something like cheap fusion.</i><br /><br />"Your argument seems to depend on the idea that technology used to send people into orbit can only be used for that purpose.<br /><br />"Exploring other planets and/or sending people into orbit will almost never make economic sense, sure. But improved launch/recovery capabilities would make satellites cheaper, which in turn make telecommunications cheaper, and so on."<br /><br />Since hundreds of satellites are sent up every year, there is already plenty of incentive to make launches cheaper and/or more reliable. The additional technologies required to send people up and get them back aren't very transferable.Roger Sweenyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12734128265493099062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84306645349728226102014-11-01T08:44:26.271-05:002014-11-01T08:44:26.271-05:00but this is not a good way for rich people to try ...<i>but this is not a good way for rich people to try to find fulfillment in life."</i><br /><br />Linking this back to your post the other day about why people think you're a big lefty, it's the second time this post made me laugh.<br /><br />It's utterances like the above that make me think you're a leftist, no matter who you say you vote for. My guess is that, as an intelligent person, you are able to logically reason the candidate that might be the best for your economic situation. That doesn't make you a conservative or a libertarian, it marks you, to me , as a rational person who has clearly identified their own self interest.<br /><br />Exactly who made you the arbiter of what someone should find fulfilling in life? and apparently, it was an off the cuff the remark. It's these impulses that make some of your commenters think you are a leftist, voting record be damned.<br />RecChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08332736695988953550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74607601880390251652014-11-01T01:23:43.648-05:002014-11-01T01:23:43.648-05:00But, I'm guessing a tenured Law professor at e...<i>But, I'm guessing a tenured Law professor at even a State university makes well over 6 figures.</i><br /><br />You don't have to guess. Althouse's basic salary is a publically available record, and yes, it is considerably over six figures.Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39769832446081059832014-11-01T01:17:49.441-05:002014-11-01T01:17:49.441-05:00Althouse:
I hate to break it to you, but your min...Althouse:<br /><br />I hate to break it to you, but your minimum position salary alone puts you in the top 5% of the nation's family incomes. Add in any income by Meade, investments, or other and you are quite clearly upperclass.<br /><br />If it makes you feel better, feel free to call yourself lower uppper class.Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19381557659284581452014-10-31T23:22:55.713-05:002014-10-31T23:22:55.713-05:00Ann Althouse said...
"but this made me laugh ...<i> Ann Althouse said...<br />"but this made me laugh out loud based on what I imagine a Law School professorship probably pays in annual salary. We middle class people?"<br /><br />You think I could call myself "upper class"?<br /><br />Maybe upper middle class, but I'm firmly middle class and always was. I don't even think I know anyone whom I'd consider upper class.</i><br /><br />I meant no disrespect by my comment. But, I'm guessing a tenured Law professor at even a State university makes well over 6 figures. Even at $3+ a gallon gas and $4 a pound hamburger in the midwest, that is freedom from worry about a lot of things financial. <br /><br />I don't begrudge you that. <br /><br />I guess I am just old enough to picture the middle class as assembly line workers and trades people. Kind of a Wonder Years cliche I guess. <br /><br />Also, I had a client once (during a short stint in another industry) who was a doctor, made over 300,000 a year....and thought of himself as middle class.RecChiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08332736695988953550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77826712706996863632014-10-31T23:16:44.172-05:002014-10-31T23:16:44.172-05:00My thought is that people should be free to do thi...My thought is that people should be free to do things like this, but I cringe at all of the "bucket list" bragging that accompanies such rich people and their expensive follies. Dannohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570137229911763191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3092852382276233892014-10-31T22:47:27.325-05:002014-10-31T22:47:27.325-05:00One additional bit of food for thought.
Fans of M...One additional bit of food for thought.<br /><br />Fans of Mars colonization are fond of saying things like "it has plenty of resources". Actually we just think it *probably* has plenty of mineral and metal resources, but I'll let that one go. The thing is, finding an ore deposit is only the first, and by far the easiest, step in actually leveraging it.<br /><br />The *really* important resources are infrastructure and labor. Say you find an iron deposit. Congrats, you are the proud owner of rust-colored rocks. Even with the aid of machines you need people to dig the ore, then it has to be smelted and refined, at the end of which you can... sit around and admire your shiny ingot. No, you need still further men and machines to work that into shapes you can use -- and that's just iron, one of the easiest-to-work-with substances in existence.<br /><br />Actually having a viable, self-sustaining economy on Mars, even IF it has all the mineral resources we need, would require tens of thousands of mines, refineries, factories, et al, and a population of millions of skilled and unskilled laborers. That is no more achievable with current technology than the Apollo program was to the Roman Empire.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16912891239379513582014-10-31T22:36:05.141-05:002014-10-31T22:36:05.141-05:00That would be crazy, so why would we choose to lea...<i>That would be crazy, so why would we choose to leave them dependent on Earth when Mars has pretty much all the resources they would need?</i><br /><br />Well, you kind of answered your own question when you said "pretty much all" instead of "all". But the main reason is that you were discussing colonization with current or near-future technology. With current or near-future technology, an independent Mars isn't on the table.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82985368925429556412014-10-31T22:34:26.171-05:002014-10-31T22:34:26.171-05:00And with slot machines.And with slot machines.George M. Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07818413936028778734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13390061808795738432014-10-31T22:34:12.756-05:002014-10-31T22:34:12.756-05:00Commercial air travel was for the wealthy and movi...Commercial air travel was for the wealthy and movie stars in the 1930s and 1940s.<br /><br />Give commercial space tourism 50 years, and we'll see Royal Caribbean and Carnival Cruises in orbit. <br /><br />Weightless fat drunks in buffet lines. It's the American way.George M. Spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07818413936028778734noreply@blogger.com