tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post2300134283916270855..comments2024-03-28T16:46:51.467-05:00Comments on Althouse: Correlating politics to belief in God.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32760775609235954292008-11-25T22:34:00.000-06:002008-11-25T22:34:00.000-06:00Can we see a graph of the correlation between Athe...Can we see a graph of the correlation between Atheism and being autistic - I think the R2 is very high.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21332574665639949972008-11-25T19:09:00.000-06:002008-11-25T19:09:00.000-06:00Pastafarian said... As a conservative atheist and ...<I>Pastafarian said... <BR/>As a conservative atheist and former math major, I've got to say: This graphic is really horribly designed. Did they use Excel? What is it supposed to show, exactly?</I><BR/><BR/>I found it confusing, too. If all groups were equal in number of people, then the wide divergence of the true believers and the atheists on the graph in their extreme liberal or extreme conservative beliefs would have great consequence for the "areas" under the lines. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, the graph is not "normed" for population size.<BR/><BR/>Still, it gives you an idea why, to the detriment of both Democrats and Republicans, extreme liberals tend to be hostile to Religion, and we all know the foibles of the Religious Right.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92003193220423998222008-11-25T18:14:00.000-06:002008-11-25T18:14:00.000-06:00That's relatively recent. The first Commandment, a...<I>That's relatively recent. The first Commandment, after all, was thou shalt not have OTHER Gods before me. Several mentioned by name in the OT.</I><BR/><BR/>There's some pretty interesting evidence that Jews used to believe in the existence of multiple gods, but my understanding is that by the time Christianity split off from Judaism, the belief that other gods existed (and just shouldn't be worshiped) was considered blasphemous and heretical by the Jews. In any case, Christians themselves have never believed in the existence of gods other than the one they worship.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85717471670405992702008-11-25T18:08:00.000-06:002008-11-25T18:08:00.000-06:00I am right with you there Joe.I am right with you <A HREF="http://pecchia.blogspot.com/2005/01/ambivalentist.html" REL="nofollow">there </A>Joe.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68771774080009481122008-11-25T18:00:00.000-06:002008-11-25T18:00:00.000-06:00Joe,I don't get that impression at all from readin...Joe,<BR/><BR/>I don't get that impression at all from reading the OT. Or the history of the time. Unless you want to start splitting hairs about what constitutes a god. Exodus strikes me as being about proving who The God is. But I haven't read it in the original, so perhaps the many references to "highest" and "foreign" and "other" are not meant to imply that they exist.<BR/><BR/>I dunno, the whole thing (Pentateuch) makes more sense as an explanation for the Hebrews. Then we don't have to wonder where Cain's wife came from, etc....<BR/><BR/>True dat about Zoroastrianism, though and today's big deity becoming tomorrows face-of-Satan.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64561360538935735162008-11-25T17:49:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:49:00.000-06:00Don't forget all us apatheists; my definition of w...Don't forget all us apatheists; my definition of which is that we believe you can't prove God exists or not and it doesn't matter even if you could.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28246518405739038142008-11-25T17:48:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:48:00.000-06:00Blake, you misunderstand the first commandment. It...Blake, you misunderstand the first commandment. It was given in the context of idolotry in the broadest sense; that is worshiping anything to the point where it takes higher priority than the law of God. <BR/><BR/>It is made very clear that these other gods aren't real, making the worship of them all the more insidious. With the Zoroastrian influence, the believe in Satan arose and the false gods became deceptions, or manifestations, of Satan.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, it is quite accurate to state that most Christians, Jews and Muslims all hold that there is but one God. (Mormons hold that there is one God who is worshiped, but that the ultimate goal of salvation is to become companions of that God, rather than minions, though all salvation theology still tends to sound rather sycophantic to me. I'm not sure why anyone wants to hang around with a dude with such a big ego for eternity.)Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35963128506123342132008-11-25T17:44:00.001-06:002008-11-25T17:44:00.001-06:00There's an Albrecht Durer exhibit at the Mobile Mu...There's an Albrecht Durer exhibit at the Mobile Museum of Art right now and I hope to get up there to see it over my Christmas holiday. Mobile has a nice oyster house, too. No vegetarian holiday for me.<BR/><BR/>When I was six, my family was stationed on a U.S. Army base in Germany. The German piano tutor my parents hired gifted me with a Durer print of Saint Peter, locking the Devil up, to reward my first achievements on the keyboard. What a grim gift for a little child! But I still have it.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-349540094218958952008-11-25T17:44:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:44:00.000-06:00Positive atheism. I like it. That describes my bel...<I>Positive atheism. I like it. That describes my belief well. Is that your coinage, Rev?</I><BR/><BR/>I think the term was coined by philosopher Michael Martin.Donnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298949062773413795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70808233891687147652008-11-25T17:10:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:10:00.000-06:00Positive atheism is a belief in the nonexistence o...<I>Positive atheism is a belief in the nonexistence of something for which no objective evidence exists.</I><BR/><BR/>Positive atheism. I like it. That describes my belief well. Is that your coinage, Rev?<BR/><BR/>I've been reading physics lately regarding entropy and the direction of time ("Time's Arrow"). Apparently, people actually debate the possibility that the universe popped into existence 10 secs ago. It "solves" a lot of problems. Not that anyone actually believes it.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5784262155666989162008-11-25T17:06:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:06:00.000-06:00I (and most positive atheists) "believe hard" in t...<I>I (and most positive atheists) "believe hard" in the sense that you "believe hard" that the world existed ten seconds ago and you weren't just now created from scratch with false memories of the past. It is the normal human belief that, barring evidence to the contrary, things really are as they seem. :)</I><BR/><BR/>Things are really as you remember them, you mean.<BR/><BR/>If I remember debating the folly of the electorate in electing Taft over Bryan a hundred years ago as clearly as I remember breakfast, you'd probably demur. Especially if I said I was debating you.<BR/><BR/>Reality apparently overlaps democracy.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38171011437213875522008-11-25T17:02:00.000-06:002008-11-25T17:02:00.000-06:00Christians, for example, believe (a) that their Go...<I>Christians, for example, believe (a) that their God exists and (b) that no other gods exist.</I><BR/><BR/>That's relatively recent.<BR/><BR/>The first Commandment, after all, was thou shalt not have OTHER Gods before me. Several mentioned by name in the OT.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8719389354240425762008-11-25T16:48:00.000-06:002008-11-25T16:48:00.000-06:00Mike,Personally, I see perfect symmetry between th...Mike,<BR/><BR/><I>Personally, I see perfect symmetry between the positions "I KNOW that God does NOT exist" and "I KNOW that God DOES exist". Both seem silly. YMMV.</I><BR/><BR/>The reason there isn't perfect symmetry is that most people who KNOW that God DOES exist *also* KNOW that no other gods exist. Christians, for example, believe (a) that their God exists and (b) that no other gods exist. Since the number of possible gods is infinite, this technically means that Christians and Atheists both believe in the nonexistence of the same number of deities. No Zeus, no Aphrodite, no Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.<BR/><BR/>I also think it is a bit silly to equate firm belief in gods with firm belief in their nonexistence. Yes, technically speaking both beliefs are irrational inasmuch as neither can be definitely proven. But that's true for all sorts of beliefs. For example, you can't actually prove that George Bush exists. We could all be having a shared hallucination of his existence, or be under the effect of alien mind control rays, or all sorts of other possibilities. But do you really think a person who says "I'm absolutely convinced that George Bush exists" is as silly as a person who says "I'm absolutely convinced that George Bush doesn't exist"? Or if a person said he was convinced his wife was an alien, would that really be as silly as being convinced his wife was human?<BR/><BR/>Positive atheism is a belief in the nonexistence of something for which no objective evidence exists. That's exactly the sort of positive disbelief ALL humans have regarding all manner of things -- like illusionary Presidents and alien wives. It just seems weird because most people believe in gods.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46952502218869100392008-11-25T16:07:00.000-06:002008-11-25T16:07:00.000-06:00I don't believe in unicorns either, because no one...I don't believe in unicorns either, because no one has shown me sufficient evidence that they exist. I alone control the level of evidence that I consider sufficient. <BR/><BR/>This in no way means that I "believe" there are no gods, only that I am completely unconvinced of their existence, either real or theoretical. That's a nuance that many religious people have trouble understanding. <BR/><BR/>I am a-theist, without religion. It does not mean what most religious people think it does, opposition to those who believe. I really don't care what they believe as long as they extend me the same consideration.Oligonicellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656818633822942314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10323159519848515762008-11-25T15:54:00.000-06:002008-11-25T15:54:00.000-06:00I fixed the chart by making the lines heavier.I fixed the chart by making the lines heavier.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2633005356047336132008-11-25T15:49:00.000-06:002008-11-25T15:49:00.000-06:00Personally, I see perfect symmetry between the pos...Personally, I see perfect symmetry between the positions "I KNOW that God does NOT exist" and "I KNOW that God DOES exist". Both seem silly. YMMV.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69952783558873425462008-11-25T15:43:00.000-06:002008-11-25T15:43:00.000-06:00I appreciate the "annalanche" from putting up my n...I appreciate the "annalanche" from putting up my normalized data, but it is dbp, not dhp. Just think, dustless black pepper.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33372005198545731322008-11-25T14:48:00.000-06:002008-11-25T14:48:00.000-06:00Or that you just don't know, which is the position...<I>Or that you just don't know, which is the position I take to be held by most agnostics.</I><BR/><BR/>The word "agnostic" has been abused to the point where that's what most people think it means, yes. But technically it refers to the belief that it is <B>impossible</B> to know if gods exist. But the word is commonly used to refer to people who aren't sure if gods do or do not exist.<BR/><BR/>Definitionally speaking, everyone who doesn't hold a positive belief in the existence of one or more gods is an atheist, as atheism encompasses everything from a positive belief in the nonexistence of gods to a simple LACK of belief in the existence of gods. Agnostics are a subset of the latter sort of atheist.<BR/><BR/>But most people think you don't count as an atheist unless you're convinced there are no gods, so that's how I usually use the term.<BR/><BR/><I>Setting aside the argument that atheists aren't really "unbelievers" at all - they believe hard, just not in God.</I><BR/><BR/>I (and most positive atheists) "believe hard" in the sense that you "believe hard" that the world existed ten seconds ago and you weren't just now created from scratch with false memories of the past. It is the normal human belief that, barring evidence to the contrary, things really are as they seem. :)Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33620121311989577622008-11-25T14:25:00.000-06:002008-11-25T14:25:00.000-06:00No wisecracks?[stuffs squirrel back in pants]Yeah,...No wisecracks?<BR/><BR/>[stuffs squirrel back in pants]<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I'm with Geoff. A line graph looks like something's moving in some direction. A bar graph would work better.<BR/><BR/>Interesting that the normalized graph looks almost like the opposite of the normalized-one.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4878085959258166192008-11-25T14:10:00.001-06:002008-11-25T14:10:00.001-06:00(No wisecracks, please.)(No wisecracks, please.)Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37755598998473248722008-11-25T14:10:00.000-06:002008-11-25T14:10:00.000-06:00DHP, I love the normalized graph, but is there any...DHP, I love the normalized graph, but is there any way to make it sharper looking. It's all fuzzy and small.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30347714733774660412008-11-25T14:05:00.000-06:002008-11-25T14:05:00.000-06:00"If you stare at that graph long enough you can se..."If you stare at that graph long enough you can see the acronym “INRI.”"<BR/><BR/>So far, post of the week.<BR/>Point, Bissage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60649479668668941242008-11-25T13:47:00.000-06:002008-11-25T13:47:00.000-06:00Some atheists don't bother me.Gee, thanks, Simon.<I>Some atheists don't bother me.</I><BR/><BR/>Gee, thanks, Simon.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76125546558424723812008-11-25T13:40:00.000-06:002008-11-25T13:40:00.000-06:00The chart is by "David Hume" and John D. as Bradla...The chart is by "David Hume" and John D. as Bradlaugh is the first to criticize it.dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36539792119971769592008-11-25T13:34:00.000-06:002008-11-25T13:34:00.000-06:00Garage - some of them do, yes. Some atheists don't...Garage - some of them do, yes. Some atheists don't bother me. It's not a categorical rule, but it does seem to hold in the mine run of cases.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398noreply@blogger.com