tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1707247858445066019..comments2024-03-28T15:10:37.166-05:00Comments on Althouse: "I blame not Heaven, but rather a society..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82525259003604464822010-09-09T18:19:38.821-05:002010-09-09T18:19:38.821-05:00It says entered not entered and helped themselves ...<i>It says entered not entered and helped themselves to stuff</i><br /><br />I wouldn't care WTF they needed. <br /><br />The mere fact of entering my home (or my country) illegally and uninvited is crime enough. The fact that they are entering and taking stuff and trashing the place makes it even more so.<br /><br />I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but when someone is breaking and entering my home (literally) they are going to be facing the business end of a Mossberg Persuader.Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13341429444562280127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2533925886394999142010-09-09T17:16:23.266-05:002010-09-09T17:16:23.266-05:00Here is a comment from sunsong (8/7/10 3:32 PM) on...Here is a comment from sunsong (8/7/10 3:32 PM) on the <a href="http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/08/answer-is-quite-simple-its-because-im.html?showComment=1281213144923#c6359967667560156816" rel="nofollow">earlier thread</a> she's citing:<br />"<i>The far left and the far right meet again, <b>this time on the justification of violence.</b> Just depends on your definition of *atrocity* or *marriage* or whatever moral it is you want to impose on others.</i>"<br /><br />Here's a reminder of sunsong's philosophy as stated on <a href="http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/09/i-blame-not-heaven-but-rather-society.html?showComment=1283977971647#c8910451294033326588" rel="nofollow">this thread</a> (9/8/10 3:32 PM):<br />"<i>Yes, I do think there are situations in which <b>violence is justified.</b></i>"AC245https://www.blogger.com/profile/12345073208349984409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1514089309785553442010-09-09T15:22:22.203-05:002010-09-09T15:22:22.203-05:00Wake up there! I am not the one advocating killing...<i>Wake up there! I am not the one advocating killing people, throwing people in jail, deporting people, going to war in Iran and who knows where else staying at war with Afghanistan etc. That's your group :-) </i><br /><br />My group? My group is the Founding Fathers. Neither the "side" is up to living to their ideals. But they did advocate killing people, throwing them in jail, and probably deporting them. They didn't advocate war with Iran and Afghanistan, though one of them was very aggressive toward the peaceful Muslim peoples of Libya.<br /><br />But now that I've established that I'm not on the right at all, I sometimes do advocate violence. I think a lot of people need to be slapped out of their stupor.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70060863590541869102010-09-09T14:47:31.523-05:002010-09-09T14:47:31.523-05:00would you be surprised if someone who needed food ...<i>would you be surprised if someone who needed food and shelter entered?"<br /><br /><br />It says entered not entered and helped themselves to stuff.</i><br /><br />If they entered, then they are quite literally "taking shelter". Also, what would be the point of entering a residence in need of food and shelter and then finding food there, not eating it. Why not just stay outside?dbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457585811847604584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8720741289871211992010-09-09T14:26:52.814-05:002010-09-09T14:26:52.814-05:00blake,
Wake up there! I am not the one advocating...blake,<br /><br />Wake up there! I am not the one advocating killing people, throwing people in jail, deporting people, going to war in Iran and who knows where else staying at war with Afghanistan etc. That's your group :-) <br /><br /><i>would you be surprised if someone who needed food and shelter entered?"</i><br /><br /><br />It says <i>entered</i> not entered and helped themselves to stuff. But, as I say, I'm not surprised you would assume the worst of an illegal :-) They are, afterall, *different* from you. And demonizing people makes it more *logical* to hate them and go after them, doesn't it?<br /><br /><br />And who is this *casual observer*? You?sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42215002364090274422010-09-09T14:01:04.431-05:002010-09-09T14:01:04.431-05:00You *assumed* they took something - which fits wit...<i>You *assumed* they took something - which fits with the far right's predilection to judge against *the other* - one is different from them. I am not surprised you would assume that :-) </i><br /><br />Right. So when you wrote the whole part about "needed food and shelter" any casual observer could see that it was only the shelter part that you were referring to, and not that you're changing your story now to cast me in a bad light, and try to achieve some semblance of coherence.<br /><br />Your smileys fool no one. You're an angry person bent on coloring all those who disagree with you as wicked.<br /><br />It's tired. And old.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71135076935940131022010-09-09T13:55:17.524-05:002010-09-09T13:55:17.524-05:00Actually blake, I didn't equate it with anythi...Actually blake, I didn't equate it with anything when I said:<br /><br />"If you left your house and doors open and took a walk - would you be surprised if someone who needed food and shelter entered?"<br /><br />You *assumed* they took something - which fits with the far right's predilection to judge against *the other* - one is different from them. I am not surprised you would assume that :-)sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22370971391712642902010-09-09T13:50:42.677-05:002010-09-09T13:50:42.677-05:00sunsong will never quit whining until he/she/it gr...<i>sunsong will never quit whining until he/she/it grows up.</i><br /><br />Oh my - and this is, I suppose, your *example* of what being grownup looks like - lol I think you'd better go back to the drawing board and try again. Being enamored with hatred and violence is NOT adult. It is usually children who are mean and want to hurt others. I assume I am supposed to be upset in some way or humiliated by your:<br /><br /><i>he/she/it</i>?<br /><br />I do appreciate you taking time to highlight my point here on this thread: that the far right like cruelty, hatred punishing, shaming, being quick to judge against others - knee-jerk in their advocacy and justification of war and violence. It's too bad freeman has conveniently disappeared :-) <br /><br />Where is the compassion, love, forgiveness, peace, understanding etc that he claimed you were really about? <br /><br /><i>Yes. They are thiefs who have snuck into the country and who are stealing from us every single day.</i><br /><br />Again, I thank you for being an example of my point here. Illegals are thieves? - lol - stealing from us? I'm sure there's some reason you hate Abraham Maslow :-) - he is famous for the hierarchy of needs and explains that when security needs aren't met - people do not focus on higher needs. Illegals do not focus on what you value ( what you think they *should* value) - they are focused on getting here and making money. But don't let that interfere with your hatred of illegals. Hate away if it turns you on. If a starving person stole a loaf of bread - I suppose you would want the book thrown at them?<br /><br /> BTW, how can they break in when there is no wall to break? They are given a free pathway into the United States - by both parties - as you admit. It seems to me they even have water stations along the way - so they don't go too long without water.<br /><br /><br /><i>You do know what happens when there is a vacuum? When the Government abrogates and refuses (as Obama is doing) to fulfill it's chartered duties......some one else will.</i><br /><br />are you advocating taking the law into your own hands? :-)sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20504394975351354042010-09-09T13:20:28.369-05:002010-09-09T13:20:28.369-05:00Can we just agree that Fen's remark about viol...<i>Can we just agree that Fen's remark about violence being good was retarded? Then maybe sunsong will find something else to complain about.</i><br /><br />I see you got no takers. Could it be that the far right agrees with the statement? :-)<br /><br /><i>Violence is good for civilization. War is good.</i><br /><br />It's hard, I think, to interpret that as anything but praise of violence and war - describing them as *good*.<br /><br />And I did find the link [no thanks to you:-) ] to the thread where the far righter says that:<br /><br /><br /><i>Sunsong? Peace studies is bogus and bullshit. Violence is the answer, no matter how you wish it otherwise.<br /><br /><br /> Once again, I ask you: Can you show me a significant human cultural or societal change that was brought about without violence or the credible threat of violence? <br /><br /><br />It's not a matter of what I want to stand for in life. Life is what it is. Violence is the rule.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/08/answer-is-quite-simple-its-because-im.html" rel="nofollow"> link </a><br /><br />I think most of them are the last page - the over 200 posts page.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83364103966644887232010-09-09T10:35:05.532-05:002010-09-09T10:35:05.532-05:00No, "sunsong", you equated illegals with...No, "sunsong", you equated illegals with burglars (note the spelling) when you wrote:<br /><br /><i>If you left your house and doors open and took a walk - would you be surprised if someone who needed food and shelter entered?</i><br /><br />Someone who comes into your house and steals your food is a burglar. You like dictionary definitions, try this one on for size (from wikipedia):<br /><br /><i>Burglary (also called breaking and entering[1] and sometimes housebreaking)[2] is a crime, the essence of which is entry into a building for the purposes of committing an offence.</i>blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76141683582980496622010-09-09T09:31:39.995-05:002010-09-09T09:31:39.995-05:00Can we just agree that Fen's remark about viol...<i>Can we just agree that Fen's remark about violence being good was retarded?</i><br /><br />Depends on when and where the violence is. Sometimes violence is needed, just as sometimes you need to use an antiseptic that stings.<br /><br />sunsong will never quit whining until he/she/it grows up.Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13341429444562280127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39004680197336791632010-09-09T09:28:39.916-05:002010-09-09T09:28:39.916-05:00Are you equating illegals with burglers now?
Abs...<i>Are you equating illegals with burglers now? </i><br /><br />Absolutely. They are 'breaking into the country'. They are stealing, through illegally working under the table and without paying taxes, jobs from citizens. They are stealing and appropriating to themselves benefits that they have NOT paid for through taxes. They are using the services and facilities that were constructed for the use of citizens.<br /><br />Yes. They are thiefs who have snuck into the country and who are stealing from us every single day.<br /><br /><i>When does responsibility come into play? Who is *responsible* for securing the border?</i><br /><br />Good question. The responsibility is that of the Government. One of the FEW things that they are chartered to do for the citizens. It hasn't been secured for generations so I fault both the Democrats AND the Repbulicans.<br /><br />You do know what happens when there is a vacuum? When the Government abrogates and refuses (as Obama is doing) to fulfill it's chartered duties......some one else will.Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13341429444562280127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73698754110998871652010-09-09T02:49:05.158-05:002010-09-09T02:49:05.158-05:00Can we just agree that Fen's remark about viol...Can we just agree that Fen's remark about violence being good was retarded? Then maybe sunsong will find something else to complain about.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18736332533714606082010-09-09T00:25:37.879-05:002010-09-09T00:25:37.879-05:00There's an especially sad thing about that You...There's an especially sad thing about that YouTube clip, which is that if you look at the still that's shown before you hit play, it's a shot of three people, and all three of them have now died before their time. There's Glenn Shadix in the background. In the foreground, there is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Walker_(actress)" rel="nofollow">Kim Walker</a>, who died of a brain tumor in 2001, when she was 32. In between them is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Applegate" rel="nofollow">Jeremy Applegate</a>, who commited suicide in 2000, when he was 34.Chris Althouse Cohenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417474428725474616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9563680107047977762010-09-09T00:14:30.645-05:002010-09-09T00:14:30.645-05:00It is not a political party in general that decide...<i>It is not a political party in general that decides to be kind, and it is not a political party in general that decides to be violent. It is individual people.<br /><br />In the end, it is always individual people.</i><br /><br />I see what you're saying but I don't agree :-) When a party advocates for war or for deporting all illegals or for banning gay marriage - or whatever example you want to use - they are all agreeing with that. So it's not just an individual decision. <br /><br />I do agree with you that most acts of kindness are individual and beautiful. And I appreciate your reminder about that.<br /><br />My point here is not even about the GOP - it is about the hard right - the extremists. Those who are so fanatical they consciously harm others and want to impose their views on everyone. And I think the hard left is just as bad - though in a different way. It is the extremes and going to extremes that is the problem, imo.<br /><br />I think it is neat that you work to help others and that you see the right as being more in line with individuality.<br /><br />The idea that this man ever thought he needed electric shock in order to try and be heterosexual really angers me. I was in the mood today to get into it. Most of the time I'm not - but I was today :-) The far right strike me as the kind of people who would applaud what happened to this man.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53772476898684175842010-09-09T00:00:38.762-05:002010-09-09T00:00:38.762-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30016463804056832822010-09-09T00:00:33.593-05:002010-09-09T00:00:33.593-05:00So you've defined anything you disagree with a...<i>So you've defined anything you disagree with as cruelty/violence? And then your argument is that people you disagree with like violence and are cruel? Do I have that right?<br /><br />It's all about your feelings about what's mean and what's nice?<br /><br />The "for the sake of it" is necessary because you have already conceded that violence is sometimes necessary. </i><br /><br />Well you're nothing if not clever. You're attempting to make this all about me - while here you are just a really great guy who is being unfairly maligned - being associated with cruel extremists.<br /><br />The problem is - I used a dictionary.com definition of cruel. I didn't make one up. And because I acknowledge there are possible occasions where violence is necessary - you then decide to dramatize your argument by adding <i>for the sake of it</i>. I would suggest that the number of times that violence is truly needed is so small as to never come up for most people. It's just not an absolute. However, because it's not an absolute does not mean that cruelty and violence are a means to solve problems - like what to do about Islamists. And it does not mean - deport all the illegals or ban gay marriage or shame and condemn anyone who does not live according to your religious values. <br /><br />It seems to me that you, and your commrades here, like to dish it out - but you are like Obama - in that you can't take criticism. The fact is that the far right *is* cruel and seems to be enamored with war and violence. Who do you think it is that supports the war in Afghanistan? A majority are aginst it now. Why is it that the far right believes that war will make us safe? What is it about brutality that brings safety?<br /><br />I am always amused by right wingers who put down *emotion* :-) The fact is that thought and emotion are linked - just as will and imagination are. If you can't feel emotion - you can't think either, and vice versa. In fact, if you can't feel - you can't love.<br /><br />I will still be on the lookout in future threads for you and anyone from the right here to denounce cruelty and violence - hatred and condemnation, punitive measures etc and I will be delighted if I ever see posts from the far right encouraging kindness, compassion, caring, peace, respect for those who disagree etc.<br /><br />It seems to me I recall learning somewhere that the Founders had terrific disagreements - quite intense. Yet they also respected each other. In other words - even though they vehemently disagreed - they also managed to respect one another.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1655305213625165132010-09-08T23:15:23.814-05:002010-09-08T23:15:23.814-05:00It is not a political party in general that decide...It is not a political party in general that decides to be kind, and it is not a political party in general that decides to be violent. It is individual people.<br /><br />In the end, it is always individual people.<br /><br />Do not group all of them in the same judgement. One person can make an entire group look ridiculous, if not handled right away.<br /><br />I'm a human rights activist, dedicated to helping children, and I love doing what I can to make the world aesthetic and safe. And I have a tendency to vote right-wing—as I normally see that THAT is the group trying to put more personal responsibility in, and make the world safe for individuals to be themselves. Personal opinion, it's fine if you think otherwise, but the point of the matter is: I completely disagree with pointless violence, and harm against others with no regards to human rights.Heather Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08485385646843063587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56078024088606262472010-09-08T23:10:44.192-05:002010-09-08T23:10:44.192-05:00And how many is that? 10 million? 100 million? all...<i>And how many is that? 10 million? 100 million? all billion of them</i>?<br /><br />Well, I dunno, it could be one of those numbers or it could be zero. I would have to study the matter more closely before giving you an estimate. <br /><br />But this is a question you really should be asking Obama. He's the one with his finger on the trigger. For some reason, you seem to continually forget this.Automatic_Wing https://www.blogger.com/profile/10174899673368042634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58022173676286805272010-09-08T22:46:14.995-05:002010-09-08T22:46:14.995-05:00Actually, no, you did.
Uh, no - look again. That ...<i>Actually, no, you did.</i><br /><br />Uh, no - look again. That was your attempt at cleverness, I suspect.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41685366363376103392010-09-08T22:43:17.825-05:002010-09-08T22:43:17.825-05:00So you've defined anything you disagree with a...So you've defined anything you disagree with as cruelty/violence? And then your argument is that people you disagree with like violence and are cruel? Do I have that right?<br /><br />It's all about your feelings about what's mean and what's nice?<br /><br />The "for the sake of it" is necessary because you have already conceded that violence is sometimes necessary. <br /><br />You write that you're in favor of cracking down on employers but not in favor of deporting people. The latter, you write, is cruel while the former is not. Is it not cruel to work the system so that the poor, hungry man who crosses the border illegally, enduring great danger to his person, arrives only to find that no one will give him a job? Some people would call that very cruel. They might believe that you are the sort of person who loves cruelty and violence.<br /><br />The truth is that sane people generally have very similar goals for a good society. They want people to succeed, to live well, to be happy, to rest in safety, to act ethically, to have access to opportunity, etc. The disagreements are over how to achieve that. <br /><br />You're thinking in cartoons.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58736668590683322932010-09-08T22:42:46.447-05:002010-09-08T22:42:46.447-05:00As many as it takes to make America secure and not...<i>As many as it takes to make America secure and not one more</i><br /><br />And how many is that? 10 million? 100 million? all billion of them?<br /><br /><i>The question is what do you, sunsong, do with this hungry shelterless person who just entered the home that you so carelessly left unlocked?</i><br /><br />I take responsiblity for leaving the house open. Then I ask him to leave. If he needs an address or transportation to a shelter I offer it or help him get it.<br /><br />Your analogy works up to a point - but not fully. There is a difference between one person's home and a nation's border. It is the responsiblity of the feds to secure the border. They haven't done it for how many years.<br /><br />If every single day I left my house open while I was at work and then got all bent out of shape - every single day - when some homeless guy came in - that would be more analogous to our border situation, imo.sunsonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14715782694832562469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87297098260410901542010-09-08T22:41:20.080-05:002010-09-08T22:41:20.080-05:00>>Are you equating illegals with burglers no...>>Are you equating illegals with burglers now? <br /><br />Actually, no, <i>you</i> did.<br /><br />I am not Thidwick the Moose, however.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62698504988776159452010-09-08T22:25:02.086-05:002010-09-08T22:25:02.086-05:00What a moral dilemma!What a moral dilemma!Automatic_Wing https://www.blogger.com/profile/10174899673368042634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61298670697903291172010-09-08T22:23:35.094-05:002010-09-08T22:23:35.094-05:00You never answered about how many Muslims you want...<i>You never answered about how many Muslims you want to kill. 10 million, 100 million all billion of them? How many</i>?<br /><br />As many as it takes to make America secure and not one more. <br /><br /><i>If you left your house and doors open and took a walk - would you be surprised if someone who needed food and shelter entered</i>?<br /><br />Yeah, I would be both surprised and dismayed but that's not the question.<br /><br />The question is what do you, sunsong, do with this hungry shelterless person who just entered the home that you so carelessly left unlocked? Do you call the cops and have him removed from the premises or do you let him stick around?<br /><br />Remember, you left the door unlocked. Is it really fair to make the homeless guy leave?Automatic_Wing https://www.blogger.com/profile/10174899673368042634noreply@blogger.com