tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post16527324392663294..comments2024-03-29T03:05:05.850-05:00Comments on Althouse: At the Spider Leaf Café...Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger147125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53172830621759689072013-06-28T16:27:07.864-05:002013-06-28T16:27:07.864-05:00The insanity of treating homosexual relationships ...<i>The insanity of treating homosexual relationships as somehow inferior to heterosexual ones drives me straight up the wall</i><br /><br />The reason heterosexuality is the norm is because that's how our species reproduces. If you're trying to reproduce, I do not think homosexuality is going to work.<br /><br />Sorry if that seems insane to you!<br /><br />Of course we can reproduce via test tubes. But the baby still has a mother and a father. Every baby has a mother and a father.<br /><br />We can kill off our babies (liberals love to do that!) Or we can screw up our families, so that babies are denied a father, or a mother. <br /><br />Or we can protect the family unit, and encourage opposite sexes to marry and have children. For thousands and thousands of years, this has been the norm.<br /><br />Now five unelected attorneys tell us its illegal, irrational, and malign.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73860924948971549872013-06-28T16:08:31.849-05:002013-06-28T16:08:31.849-05:00I don't even know you mean. Can you describe i...<i>I don't even know you mean. Can you describe in real terms what a "sex-blind" or "non-sex-blind" society is?</i><br /><br />Of course there is no sex-blind society. The whole idea is absurd. We are always aware of sexuality. And unlike race this is not an arbitrary construct. It's primal. Sex matters. <br /><br />We engage in sex discrimination whenever we want to have children. That's the most obvious example I can give for rational sex discrimination. Not just rational, but positively healthy and good.<br /><br />That's why it's so absurd to me to say that this very basic sex discrimination is irrational or (worse) malign. It's a primal and basic biology. It's how babies are made.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26407667293892569122013-06-28T15:59:45.966-05:002013-06-28T15:59:45.966-05:00You think it is "harsh and irrational" t...<i>You think it is "harsh and irrational" to attempt to extend full protection of the law to those who are denied equal treatment (and privileges) under the law?</i><br /><br />Why are you rewriting what I said? I think it's harsh and irrational to say that we cannot discriminate according to sex, even in regard to sex itself. I think it's bizarre! Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16875654049853256802013-06-28T14:30:09.341-05:002013-06-28T14:30:09.341-05:00Baloney right back at you, Robert Cook. Why do you...Baloney right back at you, Robert Cook. Why do you think the strictest traditionalists live in relatively closed groups, like the Amish? people have to be able to see the bigger picture to see the good of a shared morality regarding sex and family, lived out by people in their community, in order to understand why they should exchange short term pleasure for the long term good.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05641560429425448503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21689500296262243492013-06-28T12:18:37.823-05:002013-06-28T12:18:37.823-05:00Continuing a bit....what we are all entitled to is...Continuing a bit....what we are all entitled to is "equal opportunity" and from a secular purely legal standpoint, that is all defeat of DOMA means...and only in those states where applicable...as I understand it, about 40% of them. <br /><br />One question that is really bugging me: short of the tax benefits that one partner has to die for the other to receive .... in the age when it is common for both partners to work, just what tax benefits do we think marriage confers on anyone? Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83976014959703305042013-06-28T12:11:49.820-05:002013-06-28T12:11:49.820-05:00Revenant said...
In all fairness, we should ackn...Revenant said... <br /><br /><i>In all fairness, we should acknowledge that not all of you have an irrational fear of homosexuals. Some of you just have an irrational revulsion for homosexuals.</i><br /><br />Ah, yes...the collective "you" once again. May I have "permission" to not give a damn? <br /><br />That's rhetorical, because I don't and won't anyway. <br /><br />I'm pretty much support bagoh20's thing about truths in all of tis palaver. When same sex couples can perform <a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coitus" rel="nofollow">coitus</a> I'll call them "equal." We're not all equal, for example: There are several people on this board who are smarter than me, more experienced, better educated, and so forth. I none-the-less do not feel threatened by them, even in our inequality. Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1126797678621399522013-06-28T11:53:50.744-05:002013-06-28T11:53:50.744-05:00"You're basing your argument on something...<i>"You're basing your argument on something that doesn't matter. Which is why I poked fun at you."</i><br /><br />My point is that the difference is a fact, and that the truth matters. This point is the whole issue, and if it doesn't matter why is there so much of a fight to pretend it's not true, when everyone knows it is.bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56663785600475571902013-06-28T11:31:28.972-05:002013-06-28T11:31:28.972-05:00Palladian said...
Read any fucking thread about a...<i>Palladian said...<br /><br />Read any fucking thread about anything to do with homosexuality, read the insults and slander and blood libel and nonsense, think about it from the perspective of someone who comments here, has "friends" here, and who happens to be gay, and then get the fuck back to me about your poor, hurt feelings.<br /><br /> So many people here, people that I otherwise respect, have written so much cloaked or naked vituperation about gay people, and our effect on civilization, that what little sympathy I had for your "feelings" has long evaporated.<br /><br /> At this point in my life I'm finished with the lot of you, the plantation master so-called "liberals" who are less distinguishable from Fascists every day, and the so-called small-government "conservatives", who have such little faith in their God and the eternal and sacred institution of marriage that they bray for the State to enshrine their doctrine in secular law, and scream "Apocalypse!" when it doesn't happen.<br /><br /> I'm lucky that I don't have any feelings anymore, because if I did... "sick" and "saddened" wouldn't cover it.<br /></i><br /><br />Understandable and I get it. You and I have had discussions on this before and we just agree to disagree. It didn't make me lose respect for your position, but if you lose respect for mine, then I suppose I'd have to respect that. Cheers, happiness, and long life to you. Maybe someday we will run into each other on the same proverbial fork in the road and hopefully not whistle past each other.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71205084020733184622013-06-28T11:12:08.728-05:002013-06-28T11:12:08.728-05:00The word "homophobe" was invented to sug...<i>The word "homophobe" was invented to suggest that heterosexuals have an irrational fear of homosexuals.</i><br /><br />In all fairness, we should acknowledge that not all of you have an irrational fear of homosexuals. Some of you just have an irrational revulsion for homosexuals.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49585751193167427182013-06-28T11:06:55.451-05:002013-06-28T11:06:55.451-05:00Dude really? That's supposed to be a rebuttal ...<i>Dude really? That's supposed to be a rebuttal to what I said, and you want to be taken seriously? I could list a thousand examples how you can only get certain things by combining difference, but I thought the point was obvious to adults over 5. </i><br /><br />I was simply poking fun at the literal meaning of the blanket statement you made.<br /><br />You used "equal" in its mathematical sense of "identical". Yes, obviously a gay couple is not identical to a heterosexual couple. No two heterosexual couples are "equal", either -- so what? We don't require marriages to be "equal" in that sense and never have.<br /><br />You're basing your argument on something that doesn't matter. Which is why I poked fun at you.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3676594637989715382013-06-28T10:55:39.473-05:002013-06-28T10:55:39.473-05:00"Well, I don't have a gay son... or child..."Well, I don't have a gay son... or children of any kind, really. It is still difficult, at times, not to hate homophobes. The insanity of treating homosexual relationships as somehow inferior to heterosexual ones drives me straight up the wall."<br /><br />The word "homophobe" was invented to suggest that heterosexuals have an irrational fear of homosexuals. I suppose there are some who do. The institution of marriage has as its primary goal the production of children. I suppose someone who doesn't "have children of any kind, really", may not see that as a particularly worthy goal. But some of us feel that raising children is a loftier activity than anal sex. Apparently, the supreme court does not agree. Jupiterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13008508862847561845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16217282168586541442013-06-28T10:09:30.961-05:002013-06-28T10:09:30.961-05:00"But who thinks a sex-blind society is a good...<i>"But who thinks a sex-blind society is a good thing? That seems really odd."</i><br /><br />I don't even know you mean. Can you describe in real terms what a "sex-blind" or "non-sex-blind" society <i>is</i>?Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87525640549044185342013-06-28T10:07:44.130-05:002013-06-28T10:07:44.130-05:00You think it is "harsh and irrational" t...You think it is "harsh and irrational" to attempt to extend full protection of the law to those who are denied equal treatment (and privileges) under the law?<br /><br />No one can impose a change in one's attitudes or beliefs, but equal rights and protection under the law fortunately do not depend on the particular biases of individuals or groups of individuals in a society.<br /><br />However, once a previously excluded group is included under the reach of the law, over time people become used to the extension of rights to those who had been denied those rights previously, and attitudes do change. While racism is still a significant issue in this country, it is far less pernicious, omnipresent, overt, violent, and disruptive than was common just a few decades ago. Attitudes that were commonplace and barely noticed (if at all) 50 years ago now seem shockingly primitive, ignorant and cruel; in time, that we once excluded gays from the right to marry will seem just as primitive, cruel and ignorant.Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33291175765544996252013-06-28T10:00:29.093-05:002013-06-28T10:00:29.093-05:00To think about it another way, Robert, we all agre...To think about it another way, Robert, we all agree that a colorblind society is the goal, right? (Or we used to agree, anyway--I think many liberals have decided that race discrimination is a good thing). <br /><br />But who thinks a sex-blind society is a good thing? That seems really odd.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47507698860952465702013-06-28T09:56:50.070-05:002013-06-28T09:56:50.070-05:00Thanks, Aridog!Thanks, Aridog!Paddy Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10442537362540160512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30161117361876635512013-06-28T09:37:10.056-05:002013-06-28T09:37:10.056-05:00Ann's message yesterday and everyone's who...Ann's message yesterday and everyone's who is arguing for gay marriage is just saying one simple thing: Shut up, and accept it. How about we just do that from now on with every issue? bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56975691942302916862013-06-28T09:34:16.182-05:002013-06-28T09:34:16.182-05:00"3+3 = 6
1+5 = 6
Math is hard!"
Dude...<i>"3+3 = 6<br /><br />1+5 = 6<br /><br />Math is hard!"<br /></i><br /><br />Dude really? That's supposed to be a rebuttal to what I said, and you want to be taken seriously? I could list a thousand examples how you can only get certain things by combining difference, but I thought the point was obvious to adults over 5. <br /><br />Look, just say "I want what I want, and I don't give a shit about anyone who might question it." A lot of people don't want to honestly argue the issue. They want the outcome already accepted, the want people who disagree shamed, they want tyranny. That's what you choose when you don't argue in good faith. I don't know for sure whats right, but I'm not afraid to go looking. I don't have any issue with gay marriage, except the dishonesty. This kind of argument is exactly my point.<br />bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89870451813129547732013-06-28T09:27:45.055-05:002013-06-28T09:27:45.055-05:00I submit that the mango is the most sensuous of th...I submit that the mango is the most sensuous of the fruits.Joe Biden, America's Putinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05802605309593881825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2819267587462298432013-06-28T09:13:36.746-05:002013-06-28T09:13:36.746-05:00What exactly do you mean here by "sex discrim...<i>What exactly do you mean here by "sex discrimination?"</i><br /><br />Discriminating between people on the basis of sex. Which, as I said, we do all the time in our private lives. <br /><br /><i>just because "you" (any individual) or an entire society thinks a certain way does not mean it is just or right.</i><br /><br />Of course not. Entire societies have been built on slavery and infanticide. <br /><br />My point is that liberals seem intent on rooting out sex discrimination wherever it is, like racism. And I think this is rather harsh and irrational.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34599706977142541912013-06-28T09:12:05.926-05:002013-06-28T09:12:05.926-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29422574115536546262013-06-28T08:25:33.445-05:002013-06-28T08:25:33.445-05:00"I think, when it comes to sex, sex discrimin...<i>"I think, when it comes to sex, sex discrimination is normal and right. I've always thought this way. And not just me, but our entire society has always thought this way."</i><br /><br />What exactly do you mean here by "sex discrimination?"<br /><br />This particular matter aside, just because "you" (any individual) or an entire society thinks a certain way does not mean it is just or right. Look at the societies where the honor killing of women (by their husbands or families) is common custom. Is is acceptable just because the many (or even if all) hold firmly in their beliefs that is not only "right" but necessary?Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7548041840338592232013-06-28T08:18:15.415-05:002013-06-28T08:18:15.415-05:00"Parents trying to teach children the traditi...<i>"Parents trying to teach children the traditional and religious values associated with sex and marriage find it much harder when the government sanctions the alternative view."</i><br /><br />Baloney.<br /><br />Despite the remorseless march of change and "progress," plenty of people everywhere continue to hew to their own traditions and beliefs, and they continue to raise their children in these traditions and with these beliefs.<br /><br />Children, being autonomous actors, have the wherewithal, whether when they're younger or when they've grown, to determine for themselves whether they prefer to accept what they've been raised to believe or to come to other conclusions for themselves.<br /><br />(Moreover, even your assertion were true, the larger society has no obligation to permit or promote only that which is in accord with the belief systems of particular subsets of the whole population. Allowing gay marriage does not "impose" it on anyone, despite the whining of those who feel it their business to tell others how to live; it merely removes a legal impediment to a portion of our society that had previously been rendered unequal under the law, allowing them the same option to marry that the rest of us assume as a birthright. Aren't we always bragging how "free" we are? This just gives more people bragging rights.)Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27015674417231470542013-06-28T07:57:59.602-05:002013-06-28T07:57:59.602-05:00What is undeniably true and problematic though, no...<i>What is undeniably true and problematic though, no matter how much we can rise above hate, is that we will never find common cause with people who hate us or presume us to be evil.</i><br /><br />No matter who the human object of the hate is, this dynamic always leads to catastrophe, and it would be somewhat comforting if people who consider themselves smart and insightful could see that (hi Alhouse!) or if they so know that and are just trolling us (a distinct possibility) they should stop fucking around and soberly consider that they are playing a dangerous and malevolent game. I Have Misplaced My Pantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16170206151454145154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14344627218996585862013-06-28T07:26:57.168-05:002013-06-28T07:26:57.168-05:00I don't think is animus or hatred to conclude,...I don't think is animus or hatred to conclude, after looking at the aftermath a revolution like feminism conferred upon the institution of marriage, here we go again.<br /><br />Can the institution survive anything else that gets thrown at it?<br /><br />The side that wants to experiment "won". I'm willing to accept that. But to expect me to subvert my gloomy outlook and not express it, is asking too much. Lem the artificially intelligent https://www.blogger.com/profile/03569712564034666751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33634341786150573202013-06-28T07:22:54.381-05:002013-06-28T07:22:54.381-05:00The liberal paradigm is to dismiss its opponents a...The liberal paradigm is to dismiss its opponents as haters and bigots. If marriage has to be an institution without regard to sexuality, then your private life should also be without regard to sexuality. <br /><br />If you're "sexist," you're a bigot, right? And sexist will ultimately include anybody who discriminates on the basis of sex. <br /><br />It appears that we are heading towards a world where sex discrimination will be forbidden and unacceptable in all its forms.<br /><br />I think, when it comes to sex, sex discrimination is normal and right. I've always thought this way. And not just me, but our entire society has always thought this way.<br /><br />Are we to believe that sex discrimination is wrong in regard to sex itself? And if it is, where does this thought take us?<br /><br />I say that bisexuality is the PC attitude of the future. If you are bisexual, you are open-minded. You are not discriminating on the basis of sex. And all other forms of sexuality will be deemed close-minded, harsh, judgmental, and mean.Saint Croixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876368500159112781noreply@blogger.com