tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1471630761415490411..comments2024-03-28T04:08:06.986-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Why Don’t All Jobs Matter?"Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1092999306318473212017-04-18T16:51:22.348-05:002017-04-18T16:51:22.348-05:00Does Krugman's job matter? Why can't Krugm...Does Krugman's job matter? Why can't Krugman's job be lost?<br /><br />It's not like he as been right on much for most of his literary career.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11635784352780834494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74793163745395511472017-04-18T10:29:25.873-05:002017-04-18T10:29:25.873-05:00Between the 11th and 12th grades, I was a summer h...Between the 11th and 12th grades, I was a summer hire for the Alabama Highway Dept. I helped build Interstate 59/20 between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. It did involve sweat and toil. I recently drove over that section and still feel a sense of pride about it. There were no females on the work site that I know of.ken in txhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14345764031059905578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37683893930464699922017-04-18T08:00:57.766-05:002017-04-18T08:00:57.766-05:00Every commenter here knows that a coal mining job ...Every commenter here knows that a coal mining job can actually give the cola miner the money to be a the primary breadwinner and buy a home and pay for college and save money for retirement. That is why Trump said those types of jobs are important.<br /><br />I wonmder why Krugman won't acknowledge this? <br /><br />Dorry for the typoes- I am on my treadmill desk. <br /><br />I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41944045992750098542017-04-18T07:57:52.074-05:002017-04-18T07:57:52.074-05:00Is there something different about coal mining and...<i>Is there something different about coal mining and manufacturing jobs?</i><br /><br />Well in the case of coal mining, a LOT of that job loss was a result of direct Government intervention to destroy that industry. Since the Government broke it, the Government should help fix it.<br /><br />As to manufacturing, that one is much tougher as it was hurt by cheaper overseas competition (some unfair) but also unions and Government driving up the local manufacturing costs between overly generous compensation (from unions) and over regulation (from Government).Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12837407567105543162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49204568074138836852017-04-18T07:36:33.529-05:002017-04-18T07:36:33.529-05:00One of our betters, the unassailably smart and won...One of our betters, the unassailably smart and wonky former Enron advisor Paul Krugman says blah, blah, blah.<br /><br />The Enron employees were not available for comment!<br />Dannohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03570137229911763191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47825253898832262972017-04-17T23:41:45.421-05:002017-04-17T23:41:45.421-05:00I watched Boogie Nights recently.
I ain't jok...I watched <i>Boogie Nights</i> recently.<br /><br />I ain't jokin' or nuthin neither. I watched the whole thing.<br /><br />Guildofcannonballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352588747567045751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85277061594359246082017-04-17T23:19:32.442-05:002017-04-17T23:19:32.442-05:00"With a job somewhere on some assembly line
I..."With a job somewhere on some assembly line<br />I wish I had that life<br />I bet you wish you had mine"<br /><br />Read more: Kid Rock - Midnight Train To Memphis Lyrics | MetroLyrics Guildofcannonballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352588747567045751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63528246229496581322017-04-17T22:59:03.793-05:002017-04-17T22:59:03.793-05:00First, describing manufacturing as being mostly &q...First, describing manufacturing as being mostly "white" jobs is utterly clueless. Think Detroit, for starters. And then keep thinking. And maybe do some reading:<br />http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/decline-in-us-manufacturing-hurts-african-americans-disproportionately<br /><br />Secondly, the difference between manufacturing/production and "service" jobs that do not produce goods and services for sale abroad shows up in the Current Account of the nation. If we are producing more domestically of anything that we need to use or can export, whether grain, lithium, batteries, bullets, coal, oil, autos, steel, trucks, tractors, shoes or kids toys, it favorably affects our balance of trade. Krugman is an economist, and knows this. But he is also a dishonest polemicist, so he does not mention it. <br /><br />The problem with being a debtor nation and having a negative balance of trade shows up in the long term. Japan has been able to get by while running massive fiscal deficits because they had a strongly positive balance of trade. We have a negative balance of trade. Japan still has a healthy current account, but we do not. <br /><br />If we do not want to end up like Greece or Venezuela, we need to redress our trade imbalances. <br /><br />Politically speaking, the only way for most of the citizens of the nation to stop slowly becoming ever poorer in purchasing power/financial security terms is for us to rebuild production so we are not running these current account deficits. Otherwise we will be forced to balance the budget by cutting social benefits, the largest of these being Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. I am not looking forward to dying in a ditch, which is pretty much what is happening to a lot of Greeks. MaxedOutMamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08011469804162511617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47562536018858065122017-04-17T22:55:29.566-05:002017-04-17T22:55:29.566-05:00I don't know what you people want those people...I don't know what you people want those people, dead, who have done things that mattered, to do now they ain't be living.<br /><br />Huxley, my boy Aldous, told you, and you flippantly, seemingly, shitheadedly, don't fucking even by God give a damn.<br /><br />All things infinite includes everything, not just those things at any given time considered. People too yo, in the grandest of ways.<br /><br />Maybe I be start being fast as you and having babies too, like Dwight wrote.Guildofcannonballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352588747567045751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48301278829307423652017-04-17T22:16:25.652-05:002017-04-17T22:16:25.652-05:00Jim,
"Krugman. The guy who said the creation...Jim,<br /><br />"<i>Krugman. The guy who said the creation of the Internet would have the same impact as the fax machine.</i>"<br /><br />I guess you aren't Russian?Kirk Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921711310191924997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30636127527474004022017-04-17T21:46:13.545-05:002017-04-17T21:46:13.545-05:00David said...
Incentives. The big fast money was (...<i>David said...<br />Incentives. The big fast money was (still is?) in consumer goods and apps. Contrast the market for smart phones with that for industrial robots.</i><br /><br />This is a good point which highlights the baleful effect that financialization has had on US industry. German, family owned companies have the luxury of being able to think long term and do not have bankers breathing down their necks forcing them to absolutely maximize returns on capital. Trump should make a few industries national security priorities and use whatever means necessary to build them into world leaders. On my list would be machine tools, memory chips and monitors. The US should be competitive in everything necessary to make a computer.<br />Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31885390475259423992017-04-17T21:27:17.164-05:002017-04-17T21:27:17.164-05:00The problem is politicians deciding that your job ...The problem is politicians deciding that your job doesn't matter because of the weather 100 years from now might be ever so slightly too warm for their taste.Real Americanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457301904108193495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83149562674871575132017-04-17T21:23:45.868-05:002017-04-17T21:23:45.868-05:00'Unfortunately, the US has largely missed the ...'Unfortunately, the US has largely missed the boat in making these machines, Japan, Germany and more recently China are the market leaders. I find this inexplicable.'<br /><br />Incentives. The big fast money was (still is?) in consumer goods and apps. Contrast the market for smart phones with that for industrial robots.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424384180201600935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84054303370456449802017-04-17T21:19:27.310-05:002017-04-17T21:19:27.310-05:00John said...
Blogger AReasonableMan said...
. . .
...<i>John said...<br />Blogger AReasonableMan said...<br />. . .<br />The Smithsonian used to, may still, display a Blanchard lathe from about 1850 to make rifle stocks. Not CNC but fully automated. An unskilled operator put a chunk of wood between 2 centers, connected the belt drive and a fully shaped stock appeared a few minutes later. <br /></i><br />Like most people I used to believe that economy of scale only kicked in on farms with steam and gas engines. Then I discovered that as early as the middle 1800s agribusinesses were experimenting with giant plowing and harvesting rigs powered by living horses and oxen. There was a contraption with a dozen or so plowshares side by side, pulled by a team of six horses . . .Lewis Wetzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200232293505119133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89184789892840978792017-04-17T21:15:29.379-05:002017-04-17T21:15:29.379-05:00actually, he is saying that the mining and industr...actually, he is saying that the mining and industrial jobs do not matter. They need special help but because all jobs come and go, he sees nothing special in them.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424384180201600935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24963007151291665282017-04-17T21:12:19.802-05:002017-04-17T21:12:19.802-05:00Blogger AReasonableMan said...
Lewis Wetzel said.....<i>Blogger AReasonableMan said...<br />Lewis Wetzel said...<br />The high cost of power is a significant drag on the economy here.<br /><br />The location is a much bigger one.</i><br />Well, yes and no. Shipping would be extremely cheap from HI, except we've got the Jones Act. That means shipping to/from the US mainland has to go on a US flagged boat. Also, they have be unloaded/loaded by ILWU members. I was in the ILWU for about six months so I am allowed to gripe about them. They did a stupid thing negotiating our contract that cost me $600.<br />Legalized pot would be huge export from the Big Island. On the east side of the big island you get 60-80 inches of rain/year. Places on the mainland that have to pay for water or heat would be at a competitive disadvantage.Lewis Wetzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200232293505119133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25340495253707556532017-04-17T21:07:44.470-05:002017-04-17T21:07:44.470-05:00The more one digs into economics, especially macro...The more one digs into economics, especially macro, the more reasons for distrust turn up. I don't have better metrics for manufacturing because the data doesn't seem to exist. Economics is a pretty damn slippery business. <br />Among other statistics to distrust are inflation rates, unemployment rates, productivity measures. <br />The best we have are real things that can be counted, like employed persons and units of whatever. <br /><br />ADP is a good example of the ability to reduce back room overhead. The job of the old payroll clerk, within the parameters of the old job, thats gone. However, we still have HR payroll clerks, AND ADP. Its just that the back room has gotten much more complicated.buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388691837737324814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89154059843918444942017-04-17T21:02:48.767-05:002017-04-17T21:02:48.767-05:00buwaya puti said...
Griggs is often cited as a rea... buwaya puti said...<br />Griggs is often cited as a reason employers have stopped giving aptitude tests vs requiring credentials. I don't know if that's the whole story."<br /><br />It's not the sole reason but it is a major reason. In part by creating the mystique of the college education. That only college educated people can get high paying jobs. <br /><br />John a few years ago at a charity function I was talking to a guy who made a nice chunk of money selling his company to a large corporation. He was made a division manager and his division was moving to China. I asked him the obvious question regarding labor costs and he said that wasn't the problem. It was the problem of getting enough smart kids with a knack for math to work for them. Straight out of high school jobs that were paying $80,000. Jobs that could over a few years pay upto $120,000 a year (more with overtime). But not classy jobs. Not jobs in an office. Jobs that require long hours at times and outdoor conditions but how many college graduates earn between $80,000 to $120,000 a year? And that kind of money with no student debt. Moved to China simply because they couldn't get enough workers. That is so depressing. cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59991956481709545292017-04-17T20:56:47.784-05:002017-04-17T20:56:47.784-05:00Blogger AReasonableMan said...
Re CNC, all true, ...Blogger AReasonableMan said...<br /><br />Re CNC, all true, of course but I should point out that Ford was writing about the axe handle in 1923. CNC, depending on how it is defined, dates to the 1970s or so. <br /><br />The Smithsonian used to, may still, display a Blanchard lathe from about 1850 to make rifle stocks. Not CNC but fully automated. An unskilled operator put a chunk of wood between 2 centers, connected the belt drive and a fully shaped stock appeared a few minutes later. <br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harpers_Ferry_gun_smith_shop_-_Blanchard_lathe_-_01.jpg<br /><br />I suspect that Ford had a machine like this in mind for axe handles. <br /><br />John HenryJohn henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529920006532904660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51994595522283058902017-04-17T20:44:47.258-05:002017-04-17T20:44:47.258-05:00Blogger buwaya said...
John Henry - this too ...Blogger buwaya said...<br /><br /><i> John Henry - this too is a place where "manufacturing" stats go wrong. Electric generation is in "manufacturing". Stuff is being made, more expensively, and raises costs, which are captured as higher output.</i><br /><br /><br />I take your point about the problem of aggregate manufacturing stats like dollar value. To call it an imprecise measure insults imprecise. <br /><br />OTOH, we do need to measure and what other metric is there that is not far worse? Units? Tons? Physical volume? Persons employed? Raw material inputs? How do we aggregate the steel pipe, machine tools, frozen food and men's socks manufacturing?<br /><br />Did manufacturing per capita increase precisely 5.416 times between 1970 and 2014? Probably not. Did it increase 4-6 times (1200 to 6500) in that period? Absent something better, I am OK with that and a dish of salt. <br /><br />Do you have any suggestions for a better metric of how much manufacturing is being done in the US?<br /><br />One other comment about manufacturing job counts and the back room: When a plant had payroll clerks and so on who calculated and printed the paychecks each week, those were counted as manufacturing jobs. Now that ADP and others do it as a service for many (most?) companies, it is considered a service sector job, not manufacturing. <br /><br />John HenryJohn henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529920006532904660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44928394218984392752017-04-17T20:43:52.056-05:002017-04-17T20:43:52.056-05:00AReasonableMan said...
cubanbob said...
Apparently...AReasonableMan said...<br />cubanbob said...<br />Apparently this only became a problem on January the 20th. <br /><br />No, but Obama didn't explicitly say that he was going to restore US manufacturing greatness. He should have, but he didn't, unlike Trump."<br /><br />All you have pointed out is how clueless Obama and the Democrats were. And are. At least Trump has a clue. It's a start in the right direction. cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19250343601238265112017-04-17T20:37:04.005-05:002017-04-17T20:37:04.005-05:00Hawaii is a very expensive place to do business in...Hawaii is a very expensive place to do business in most ways, which explains low personal incomes. Some of the poorest Asians in the US are in Hawaii. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72604586903052624012017-04-17T20:34:09.843-05:002017-04-17T20:34:09.843-05:00Griggs is often cited as a reason employers have s...Griggs is often cited as a reason employers have stopped giving aptitude tests vs requiring credentials. I don't know if that's the whole story. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45059631192766942272017-04-17T20:33:23.211-05:002017-04-17T20:33:23.211-05:00Lewis Wetzel said...
The high cost of power is a s...<i>Lewis Wetzel said...<br />The high cost of power is a significant drag on the economy here.</i><br /><br />The location is a much bigger one. Hard to make a case to make anything other than surfboards in Hawaii and even surfboards are made by CNC these days.<br />Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15292824532825181312017-04-17T20:29:51.717-05:002017-04-17T20:29:51.717-05:00Blogger cubanbob said...
John you hit the nai... Blogger cubanbob said...<br /><br /> <i> John you hit the nail on the head. Thanks in part to Griggs vs Duke Power we as a society have so fetishsized college education the great paying jobs straight out of high school are no longer considered good enough nevermind that they can pay more than jobs requiring college degrees. Notice that Germany doesn't have this particular problem.</i><br /><br />I agree with all this but don't understand what Griggs has to do with it? Griggs was a black man in an unskilled job who was fired because he did not have a high school diploma. <br /><br />It is a big AA case because it opened the problem of disparate impact (blacks are more likely not to have a HS diploma) on top of disparate treatment (A black not hired because of race)<br /><br />Maybe you are thinking of something else?<br /><br />John HenryJohn henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529920006532904660noreply@blogger.com