tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1292043785819373282..comments2024-03-28T11:12:03.111-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Today the Court affirms what is perhaps the most radical injunction issued by a court in our Nation’s history..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18785563949551918332011-05-24T15:21:14.143-05:002011-05-24T15:21:14.143-05:00The dissent was correct in this case, much as one ...The dissent was correct in this case, much as one hates to side with Scalia. Releasing mentally ill prisoners into the streets is not effective social policy--ie, ie better some overcrowded gyms than insane felons in the streets (or at least make some other arrangements---). <br /><br />Then for some judges living in pricey burbs or gated communities, who cares about Californians, especially those middle class or working class who live around prisons?? Maybe let the felons loose in rich areas of CA where the liberal judges and attorneys live. <br /><br />For the confused liberal rant of the week, check out <a href="http://www.unfogged.com/archives/week_2011_05_22.html#011312" rel="nofollow">Ben Wolfson's</a> sentimental pipsqueaks on unfogged. Sort of the Harvey Fierstein of the corporate liberal sites, Benji sure hates that meanie Scalia. Maybe Scalia's people will...eh take care of the little schmuck (and the rest of the unfogged trash).Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11567400697675996283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7157612247478984272011-05-24T14:46:42.138-05:002011-05-24T14:46:42.138-05:00That is, the judges that voted for the release hav...<i>That is, the judges that voted for the release have absolutely no stake in the decision. The released convicts will not be anywhere near their homes/neighborhoods, so why do they give a rip?</i><br /><br />Then perhaps the governor should order that every prisoner that is released under the order be driven out to the street in front of the judge’s house and released there. Preferably by the busload.Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74422087477896653072011-05-24T14:44:20.886-05:002011-05-24T14:44:20.886-05:00If they didn't abide by rulings to build more ...<i>If they didn't abide by rulings to build more prisons, why would they abide by rulings to release prisoners?</i><br /><br />Good point, something else to consider is that SCOTUS didn’t order the State of California to release 30-40 thousand specifically named individuals from prison. Instead it ordered them to essentially pick 30-40 thousand individuals and release them from prison or find somewhere else to put them. How would you like to be the politician who had to pick those 30-40 inmates to release and then be held responsible for everyone that commits a rape, robbery or homicide after they’re released? It did such wonders for Mike Dukakis and Mike Huckabee’s political aspirations.Thorley Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17262423151559851671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23893248903147505412011-05-24T06:37:38.674-05:002011-05-24T06:37:38.674-05:00Perfect illustration of reverse-nimby.
That is, t...Perfect illustration of reverse-nimby.<br /><br />That is, the judges that voted for the release have absolutely no stake in the decision. The released convicts will not be anywhere near their homes/neighborhoods, so why do they give a rip?<br /><br />They are most concerned with how they look to their colleagues and other elites on the DC cocktail circuit.Toad Trendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03113877205525601966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46975619747823734702011-05-23T22:01:21.161-05:002011-05-23T22:01:21.161-05:00You know which way Kennedy is going to sway on gay...You know which way Kennedy is going to sway on gay marriage too.<br /><br />Get ready.<br /><br />Baby we were born this way....and were going to get married...even in Mississippi.Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505398901816313803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5569186540475178212011-05-23T21:42:01.988-05:002011-05-23T21:42:01.988-05:00I have no sympathy, whatsoever, for the people of ...I have no sympathy, whatsoever, for the people of California in this matter. They brought back Governor Moonbeam, who very quickly signed that very lucrative contract with the prison guard union. This was the same guy who gave state employees the right to unionize in the first place. <br /><br />They brought the guy back, and this is just one place where they are going to pay for that mistake. I just hope that most of released felons stay on their side of the state line. <br /><br />(Here in Northern NV, the state pays quite a bit less per inmate, the prison system is only slightly overcrowded (they are shutting down the old prison in Carson City), and a lot of the people are armed).Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88198904591333396052011-05-23T21:34:42.127-05:002011-05-23T21:34:42.127-05:00Why doesn't (or didn't) CA just build more...Why doesn't (or didn't) CA just build more prisons?<br /><br />I think that the answer is that they couldn't afford to. Prison construction costs a lot of money. And, of course, it doesn't hurt that so much of the budget is going to pay the prison guards and other unionized employees. <br /><br />So, why didn't the judge just order them to build those prisons? <br /><br />Again, I would suggest that the state may have just responded, that if the courts thought that they should be building more prisons, then maybe the courts should fund the construction, because the state surely couldn't afford to do so. <br /><br />Sure, the courts could have, maybe, ordered taxes be raised. But that would not go over very well. The federal courts would be taking state power, and would also be preempting legislative power, and possibly overriding actual votes of the citizens of that state for taxing caps imposed as ballot initiatives or amendments to the state constitution. In short, about the fasted way to get themselves lynched. <br /><br />I should also note that the track record for federal courts imposing state and local spending has not been the least bit good. I remember one court mandating a bunch of spending on education somewhere in the mid-west (Missouri? Maybe KC?) The result was much higher spending, much on relatively useless items (no, not every high school needs their own pool, etc.), and no improvement whatsoever in student achievement.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55643591919712671422011-05-23T21:03:53.329-05:002011-05-23T21:03:53.329-05:00I would like to see a study of the long term effec...<i>I would like to see a study of the long term effects of following the order versus not. How many murders, assaults, rapes and robberies and their attendant fallout on the innocent versus the effects of the overcrowding of the guilty.</i><br /><br />Studies have been done on previous mass releases, so there is no need to wait. The result is always the same. As the authors of <i>Super Freakonomics</i> wrote:<br /><br />"[...]The ACLU wins virtually all of these (Prisoner-release--Ruy) cases, after which the state is ordered to reduce overcrowding by letting some prisoners go free. In the three years after such court decisions, the prison population falls by 15 percent relative to the rest of the country.<br /><br />What do those freed prisoners do? A whole lot of crime. In the three years after the ACLU wins a case, violent crime rises by 10 percent and property crime by 5 percent in the affected states."RuyDiazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245939178748322897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85723810335766599292011-05-23T19:53:28.494-05:002011-05-23T19:53:28.494-05:00I would like to see a study of the long term effe...I would like to see a study of the long term effects of following the order versus not. How many murders, assaults, rapes and robberies and their attendant fallout on the innocent versus the effects of the overcrowding of the guilty. Then we can decide what the moral and constitutional thing to do is and whether they are the same prescription.bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1986755804077496052011-05-23T19:48:07.438-05:002011-05-23T19:48:07.438-05:00"If the state had actually started building p...<i>"If the state had actually started building prisons when it was first ruled that the current prisons were inhumanely overcrowded, that could have worked as a solution."</i><br /><br />This is California. We don't solve problems - we spend money, and we are unparalleled at it. We call it Californian Exceptionalismbagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48775949107433922532011-05-23T19:45:52.369-05:002011-05-23T19:45:52.369-05:00Justice Kennedy's sentiments would be admirabl...Justice Kennedy's sentiments would be admirable in a speech addressed at, say, the California State legislature, but in a court order?Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03653025261513705773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89771399893202482892011-05-23T19:31:21.658-05:002011-05-23T19:31:21.658-05:00"House them with the liberal members of the C..."House them with the liberal members of the Court."<br /><br />Good, but not good enough: Require those justices to live in the neighborhoods with the highest crime rates. :-)pst314https://www.blogger.com/profile/08686377680772972035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54272468244750506322011-05-23T19:15:26.330-05:002011-05-23T19:15:26.330-05:00Why the order to release? Why not an order to buil...<i>Why the order to release? Why not an order to build more prisons?</i><br /><br />Building new prisons takes years.<br /><br />If the state had actually started building prisons when it was first ruled that the current prisons were inhumanely overcrowded, that could have worked as a solution. Unfortunately the state government took the approach of "yeah we know the prisons are overcrowded, and we totally swear we'll eventually do something about that, maybe".<br /><br />So eventually we end up in a situation where a remedy is required -- and there's only one guaranteed remedy.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63618922713070063962011-05-23T18:34:03.302-05:002011-05-23T18:34:03.302-05:00Note that Texas isn't being told what to do by...Note that Texas isn't being told what to do by the SCOTUS. This suggests that it ain't the money that is the problem.themightypuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03288837159628526731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39053554237309870262011-05-23T18:29:15.717-05:002011-05-23T18:29:15.717-05:00The litigation has been going on since 1990. I hav...<i>The litigation has been going on since 1990. I haven't read all the details, but presumably the state had plenty of opportunity to build more prisons. They've been operating at 200% capacity for 11 years. Read some of the details.</i><br /><br />If they didn't abide by rulings to build more prisons, why would they abide by rulings to release prisoners?Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53851276529492767962011-05-23T18:07:54.305-05:002011-05-23T18:07:54.305-05:00Averge cost to house a prisoner in CA = $47,000/yr...Averge cost to house a prisoner in CA = $47,000/yr<br /><br />In Texas = $13,800<br /><br />Stupid cowboys!bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2532134363515950132011-05-23T18:01:46.461-05:002011-05-23T18:01:46.461-05:00So, California's choices appear to be:
1. Rel...<i>So, California's choices appear to be:<br /><br />1. Release huge numbers of felons.<br />2. Bankrupt the state by staffing new prisons.<br />3. Control the power of public-sector unions</i><br /><br />Governor Moonbeam has indicated which he prefers, by recently signing a new, fairly generous, agreement with the prison guards' union. <br /><br />Someone recently quipped that it costs more to house someone in a CA prison than to pay tuition at Dartmouth. And that is with the overcrowding. Just think of how the cost per inmate is going to look when all those inmates are let go. <br /><br />Let me suggest that this is precisely what happens with runaway government combined with strong government employee unions. CA is essentially bankrupt, but is giving prison guards nice raises, while letting a lot of inmates go. <br /><br />Of course, declaring the War on Drugs over would solve the whole problem, which is why it isn't about to happen. Without the WoD, the state wouldn't have to hire all those prison guards making all that money. <br /><br />BTW - they guards can apparently make over $200k, not $100k with a lot of overtime. And, that translates into a very nice pension after a couple of decades. <br /><br />This makes it sound like a great job - it isn't. Pays well, but I couldn't handle it very long.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84340086660326890532011-05-23T18:01:21.505-05:002011-05-23T18:01:21.505-05:00First out should be those on death row, and not vi...First out should be those on death row, and not via the front door.bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18116082914027829322011-05-23T17:59:08.280-05:002011-05-23T17:59:08.280-05:00This should be the solution to the entire nation n...This should be the solution to the entire nation not having enough resources to meet everyone's "constitutional rights": order a bunch of people out. Any suggestions on who should go first?bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85171816559762787832011-05-23T17:56:56.400-05:002011-05-23T17:56:56.400-05:00Oh, and I forgot. I called my friend in France an...Oh, and I forgot. I called my friend in France and read off the terrible healthcare the inmates are being provided and she laughed and said that none of that would be considered unusual at all in France. Her boyfriend even has a misshapen collarbone bone from where he had to wait several weeks just to have it set and by that time it had knitted back together incorrectly.<br /><br />So there you have it. The Supreme Court has ruled that France's entire healthcare system is unconstitutional. Now if it would only do as much for Obamacare we would all be ecstatic.georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11402720592452236525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63453866180644783342011-05-23T17:52:08.781-05:002011-05-23T17:52:08.781-05:00Californians didn't vote for this, so don'...Californians didn't vote for this, so don't think you are exempt. This came from the ACLU, which is coming to your State soon, as soon as they think they have a sympathetic court. IMHO this issue is just a screen for their belief that most people don't belong in prison.<br /><br />http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/conditions-confinement<br /><br />Freeman, one reason for the substandard medical care is that no doctor wants to work there. Too bad we don't have Obamacare yet--the govt could just order doctors to report for duty.PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15576487507064004772011-05-23T17:46:46.740-05:002011-05-23T17:46:46.740-05:00Once Obamacare is in effect, and healthcare in the...Once Obamacare is in effect, and healthcare in the entire country is worse than that currently supplied in CA prisons, will the Supreme Court order us all released to another country?<br /><br />The Supremes made a value judgment here. They have in effect said they value a child molester's right to get his viagra prescription refilled over the right of honest citizens to be safe in their homes. <br /><br />And then having made such a ridiculous judgment they proceed to order prisoners released to the outside world where there will be no free dispensary or doctors waiting to see them free of charge. SO their ridiculous "solution" is no such thing at all. <br /><br />I suspect that many of these criminals will themselves be liberating their own drug supplies from pharmacies and individual citizens very shortly. Maybe that is what the court had in mind to the extent that they thought things through at all.<br /><br />Once again it is proven that we have the worst ruling class of a major Western power since Roman times.georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11402720592452236525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90231161733445338402011-05-23T17:30:44.093-05:002011-05-23T17:30:44.093-05:00They are mainly releasing prisoners with serious m...<i>They are mainly releasing prisoners with serious mental or medical issues,</i><br /><br />Oh....that makes it much better. Mentally ill and sick people. Yes...much much better.<br /><br />I was hoping the felons being released were card sharks and white collar criminals. Those I can deal with having been a stock broker for many years.....I probably know some of them.<br /><br />Note to self: Buy another house gun and make sure the motion lights are on and the alarm at the end of the driveway is functioning.Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13341429444562280127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41403236064217098002011-05-23T17:30:36.242-05:002011-05-23T17:30:36.242-05:00I do hope californians like their new neighbors--t...<i>I do hope californians like their new neighbors--this is a win win for those of us who think the courts are nuts and who believe californians should not be able to sleep safely in their beds.</i><br /><br />Gee, thanks. I've already got weird people walking by my house day in and day out, having conversations only they can hear and screaming at things only they can see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22061196925853754672011-05-23T17:28:25.363-05:002011-05-23T17:28:25.363-05:00I'd guess that the political issue in Californ...I'd guess that the political issue in California is not so much building new prisons- although these are expensive- as the cost of staffing them.<br /><br />According to a number of sources, the base pay for California prison guards is in the order of $92,000. And with overtime, annual pay can go well over $100,000. And when their active duty is done, a nice guaranteed-benefit pension awaits.<br /><br />The CCPOA (California Correctional Officers Peace Officers Association) has done very well for its members. <br /><br />Expenses like this are a large part of the reason why California, despite high tax rates, has an expected budget deficit of $26 billion for 2011.<br /><br />So, California's choices appear to be:<br /><br />1. Release huge numbers of felons.<br />2. Bankrupt the state by staffing new prisons.<br />3. Control the power of public-sector unions<br /><br />California, new York, and Wisconsin- all are on the same fiscal road. It's just that CA and NY are far enough ahead of us on this road to ruin that we still have time to avoid a similar fate.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16099940931064117337noreply@blogger.com