tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1211561208152786509..comments2024-03-29T07:39:44.871-05:00Comments on Althouse: Obama opposes the release of more Abu Ghraib photo.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger127125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27523985802067046262009-05-14T22:32:00.000-05:002009-05-14T22:32:00.000-05:00Do you honestly believe that what is actually moti...<I>Do you honestly believe that what is actually motivating the left is 'besmirching' America</I>?<br /><br />Sure. Because otherwise it means y'all are just kinda dense. And everyone knows a story is no good without a good villain. I mean, <I>Moonraker</I> is no good if Drax is just stupid. The hero only shines when the bad guy is intelligent but has bad intentions!Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39357952312697582412009-05-14T14:26:00.000-05:002009-05-14T14:26:00.000-05:00"The Exalted said...
Methadras said...
Y..."The Exalted said...<br /><br /> Methadras said...<br /><br /> You've basically described a frat house initiation ceremonyi'm not sure what fraternity's hell week includes repeated and continual assault, repeated and continual sexual assault, and forced nudity for months on end, but it sure wasn't mine or any that i've heard of. you also might take note that fraternities are, uh, voluntary associations, whereas those detained at abu gharaib were there rather involuntarily, for months on end, without charges, and often without notice to their families.<br /><br /> anyhow, so you'd be fine with your son or daughter experiencing what happened at abu gharaib? you're in the 1% minority of mouthbreathers who weren't outraged by those photographs?"<br /><br />Mouthbreather. Yeah, I've noticed that rancid little term being bandied about by the shallow thinker like you. First of all, I was annoyed by the original photos as they were released. Know why? Because I say them for what they were. Morons acting like morons that tarnished the excellent and professional work of the hundreds more that worked near, around, and where associated with Abu Gharaib. However, I also recognized the photos of the depictions of the types of activities in them as strictly not torture. Humiliation, you bet, but I don't consider humiliation torture either. These pictures where meant to embarrass the administration and they did. Your bankrupt ilk got what they wanted and we reaped the unintended consequences of your disgusting gratification.<br /><br />I wasn't comparing the distinctions of choice of fraternity initiation rituals with what went on in that prison as conducted by those fools, but the recognition that one is voluntary vs. involuntary is obvious, and yet even with fraternity initiations, pledges will voluntarily submit, consistently to that type of treatment and in some cases to the point of death. Therefore the distinctions aren't that different. But I thought illustrating the what constitutes torture vs. what isn't should have been an easy enough parallel for you to surmise. I guess your surface fluff thinking didn't bridge that gap. Not my fault in this case.<br /><br />I'm not going to play your moral equivocation game. There are millions of people in prison in the US that do just fine, pay their time for their crimes, get out, and move on. Some abuses occur, most are unreported. I'm sure other horrors of prison life go unnoticed. That is life. Deal with it. Your comparatives are childish.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49765879481269958502009-05-14T11:46:00.000-05:002009-05-14T11:46:00.000-05:00Methadras said...
You've basically described a f...<I>Methadras said... <br /><br />You've basically described a frat house initiation ceremony</I>i'm not sure what fraternity's hell week includes repeated and continual assault, repeated and continual sexual assault, and forced nudity for months on end, but it sure wasn't mine or any that i've heard of. you also might take note that fraternities are, uh, voluntary associations, whereas those detained at abu gharaib were there rather involuntarily, for months on end, without charges, and often without notice to their families. <br /><br />anyhow, so you'd be fine with your son or daughter experiencing what happened at abu gharaib? you're in the 1% minority of mouthbreathers who weren't outraged by those photographs?The Exaltedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030346881185443267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40253022208453040662009-05-14T09:39:00.000-05:002009-05-14T09:39:00.000-05:00I applaud the president on this move.
What good w...I applaud the president on this move.<br /><br />What good would release of the photos do to anybody? The troops would be punished and our reputation would take a serious hit. These photos would be degrading to the people of the Middle East where most of these prisoners hailed from. It would have been a lose-lose situation.<br /><br />This is one of the first moves where I support the president 100%.<br /><br />RyanRyan Biddulphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05904095186047689604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31567105598643941962009-05-14T08:21:00.000-05:002009-05-14T08:21:00.000-05:00However, would you have been happy if the US gover...<I>However, would you have been happy if the US government had spent more money building a new one?<br /><br /></I>I would recognize the necessity of it. That's not gonna make me happy or unhappy. And it's -- what -- $1 Million at most? That's a millionth of what the war has cost so far and would have been a very very wise investment.MadisonManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212179466758420208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83192644962275324852009-05-14T08:13:00.000-05:002009-05-14T08:13:00.000-05:00Daryl:
I'd love to see the media ask Obama "Have ...Daryl:<br /><br />I'd love to see the media ask Obama "Have you changed your position after hearing Dick Cheney's objections over the weekend?"I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10311420256024431942009-05-14T03:14:00.000-05:002009-05-14T03:14:00.000-05:00Thank you, Dick Cheney, for talking some sense int...Thank you, Dick Cheney, for talking some sense into our stupid, immature president.Darylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10538069201622292752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88243792070442562112009-05-14T01:55:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:55:00.000-05:00"UWS guy said...
Right wingers demanded tortu..."UWS guy said...<br /><br /> Right wingers demanded torture of our enemies and the price is dead soldiers.<br /><br /> How many extra road side bombs were worth the waterboards, the ceiling shackles, the hypothermia?<br /><br /> Republicans can go fuck themselves for putting our troops in extra harm."<br /><br />And if no one knew about the interrogation techniques that we employed would your faux indignation be non-existent? Fuck you and your pompous, phony stance. Throwing the excuse that our soldiers became more susceptible to extra harm because of the release of prisoner abuse information. If you hadn't know, if none of us had known this wouldn't be a discussion we would be having. But now that we do know, oh well, you puff up your chest and beat it like a drum at the horror of it all. You are no different than a wailing arab woman who rends her hair out and tears at her clothes when folly and sorrow befalls her. Only it's a show for all to see at how her misery is greater than the woman next to her doing the same thing. All for show.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72650934389014419012009-05-14T01:48:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:48:00.000-05:00"Freder Frederson said...
I thought there was..."Freder Frederson said...<br /><br /> I thought there was no downside to torture. Now you are saying that it might cause problems if our enemies see pictures of people being tortured.<br /><br /> I'm so confused."<br /><br />It's not that hard to confuse someone like you that is perpetually confused. It's been prove that waterboarding extracts actionable intelligence data. Verifiable and useable. It may require more than one application as proven by it's use on KSM. Letting others know how that intelligence was derived is counter-productive to it's application, which allow the enemy to try and counter it or in this case to entice even more retaliation. This is why you are so easily confused.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42394012657305072302009-05-14T01:46:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:46:00.000-05:00"The Exalted said...
Fen,
The disgusting..."The Exalted said...<br /><br /> Fen,<br /><br /> The disgusting acts displayed in the photos of Abu Gharaib released to date were mostly authorized by Rumsfeld: nudity, dogs, stress positions, humiliation.<br /><br /> Freder is exactly right: the abuse at Abu Gharaib directly flowed from the authorized torture at Gitmo."<br /><br />You've basically described a frat house initiation ceremony. If nudity was torture then I guess strip searches in prisons are too. If having a dog bark in your face, then I guess K-9 units are torture too. If being put in a stress position for lengthy periods of time are torture then you might as well outlaw being handcuffed, yoga, martial arts, weight lifting and any number of activities that do this very thing. And if humiliation was torture then... well, shit you might as well arrest the globe. Your arguments are childish. This little bit of Presidential/ACLU drama is nothing more than Kabuki.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16680405804107924722009-05-14T01:39:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:39:00.000-05:00"Freder Frederson said...
I thought you were ..."Freder Frederson said...<br /><br /> I thought you were proud of what we had done. What is the problem with releasing the photos and letting the terrorists know what they are in for if they fuck with us?<br /><br /> Either torture is effective and will discourage terrorists or it will give our enemies cause to hate us more and cause even more terrorism. You can't have it both ways."<br /><br />How do you know what I'm proud of you simpleton? Have I ever here or anywhere else that I am proud of torture? Ever? I haven't and I wouldn't. First of all it's not about having it both ways. It's about the understanding of what is defined as torture. Waterboarding isn't torture and I won't rehash the argument anymore. This is what I believe and this is what I will stand on.<br /><br />There is nothing, absolutely nothing to be gained from releasing pictures to satiate the curiosities and to inflame the enemies of this country. And again, I will ask you, why do you want to see the photos and what will you gain by their release?Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85451429710465889762009-05-14T01:34:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:34:00.000-05:00" Freder Frederson said...
disgusting, just d..." Freder Frederson said...<br /><br /> disgusting, just disgusting. There is no legal or constitutional reason not to release them.<br /><br /> I would like Ann to provide one.<br /><br /> Hint: embarrassment to the government is not a legitimate reason to withhold a document."<br /><br />This is why you are a unmitigated fool. It isn't about the government. It's about the reputation of the people that represent this government. Namely us. You and me. Maybe you want to see your country embarrassed in the eyes of the world, but the real question that needs to be asked is, why do you want to see them released. What do you or your leftist brethren have to gain from them other than finding solidarity with other like minded ilk who will use it as a threadbare excuse to denigrate this country further? What is your reason? I want to know.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70904558721484274492009-05-14T01:32:00.000-05:002009-05-14T01:32:00.000-05:00"Minzo said...
"The Left will be enraged at m..."Minzo said...<br /><br /> "The Left will be enraged at missing an opportunity to besmirch this country further."<br /><br /> Do you honestly believe that what is actually motivating the left is 'besmirching' America?"<br /><br />That is on aspect of the Leftist agenda. If really can't see that then I'm not sure what you want to see or do see. Of course the Left wants to besmirch this country. To tear it down in the eyes of the global community, to bring it to it's knees so that it will be on par with every other 2nd and 3rd world crap hole. That way America's exceptionalism will be snuffed out and no longer will be an issue for being blamed for all the worlds problems because they will have it all problems redistributed equally. The left hates what this country stands for, so why do you think they fight so hard to tear it down? They use all the populist excuses in the name of democratic transparency when they are nothing but the orchestrators of wanting a more perfect socialist union. <br /><br />This is just another attack against the American bulwark. A hole in the dike if you will that they don't anyone to come around and stick their fingers in. So yes, I honestly do believe their intent to besmirch this great country as another attempt to tear its reputation down further and I won't stand for it.Methadrashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07828014989470539375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35454695340479257892009-05-13T21:44:00.000-05:002009-05-13T21:44:00.000-05:00MadisonMan said...
I think it's foolish to li...<I>MadisonMan said...<br /><br /> I think it's foolish to liberate Iraqis from Saddam and then not get rid of notorious symbols of the past regime. You call that symbolism and so do I. I also call it part of the war to win over the minds of the civilian population of the occupied country.<br /><br /> [...]<br /> 7:48 PM</I>.<br /><br />Agreed. It should have gone the way of Saddam's statues. However, would you have been happy if the US government had spent more money building a new one?Ernesto Ariel Suárezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01958402720156270521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14075462122123234632009-05-13T21:38:00.000-05:002009-05-13T21:38:00.000-05:00Since they've already waited this long, why not wa...Since they've already waited this long, why not wait until we redeploy everyone? That way, they can release ALL of the detainee abuse photos, including the ones that have not yet occurred.<br /><br />I believe that some of these pics are from as recently as late last year, John Lynch, so if the government HAD released all of the photos they had back in 2004, they would likely have been sued by the ACLU to release the photos they accrued after that point; hence my argument to wait until the end until we release them, inflaming the world after everyone is safely home.<br /><br />Although "the end" is probably never. . .Bob W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00529680016749296360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6420928744838694122009-05-13T21:23:00.000-05:002009-05-13T21:23:00.000-05:00Might as well release them now... they exist, it h...Might as well release them now... they exist, it happened, and they're going to come out long, long before this war is over. Abu Ghraib is already in the news again, so delaying release is just going to increase the total amount of coverage, because this is going to keep coming up.<br /><br />Again, they should have released them in 2004. Then we wouldn't be talking about it five years later.NotWhoIUsedtoBehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568355742926021406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-40097439440229827002009-05-13T20:01:00.000-05:002009-05-13T20:01:00.000-05:00What do you know - I almost had bacon & eggs f...What do you know - I almost had bacon & eggs for dinner!I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68444670624013972902009-05-13T20:00:00.000-05:002009-05-13T20:00:00.000-05:00Michael:
Thanks for the firsthand, accurate back...Michael:<br /><br />Thanks for the firsthand, accurate background on the goings on at Abu Graib. Too bad, the cocksuckers at the NYT would not find and publish this truth.<br /><br />[I think Mad Man may have been paying you a compliment but I could be wrong].I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82907729209903650122009-05-13T19:53:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:53:00.000-05:00I have my own blog. As far as ceasing to post her...I have my own blog. As far as ceasing to post here is concerned, I'd accept such a note from Althouse, but not from you.Michael McNeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08007336342718478839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77665643307405558432009-05-13T19:48:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:48:00.000-05:00I think it's foolish to liberate Iraqis from Sadda...I think it's foolish to liberate Iraqis from Saddam and then not get rid of notorious symbols of the past regime. You call that symbolism and so do I. I also call it part of the war to win over the minds of the civilian population of the occupied country.<br /><br />Michael McNeil: Start your own blog.<br /><br />Dinner: Pancakes and strawberries.MadisonManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212179466758420208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47025481487207874722009-05-13T19:46:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:46:00.000-05:00ObamaNation,
I like your "about me" page, nice ag...ObamaNation,<br /><br />I like your "about me" page, nice agitprop! It must make you smile when people say they know exactly where that photo of "you" was taken!<br /><br />The whole flyfishing thing is a little agitprop of my own; I am trying to signal that I am a moderate who knows something about the military and current events - oh yeah, and that I like to catch fish on a fly rod. Go figure. It seems to be working. . .Bob W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00529680016749296360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91641496821362986282009-05-13T19:40:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:40:00.000-05:00Folks here might like to peruse a view of conditio...Folks here might like to peruse <A HREF="http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/archives/2004_05_01_iraqthemodel_archive.html#108402732613255085" REL="nofollow">a view of conditions</A> within Abu Ghraib, by an Iraqi doctor stationed there during the same time period as the infamous abuses were being perpetrated in one location by improperly supervised out-of-control night-shift guards. As the interview (by fellow physician Ali Fadhil of the <A HREF="http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Iraq the Model</A> blog) makes clear, the experience people had in the bulk of that facility was very different.<br /><br />Quoting now from that piece….<br /><br /><br />Saturday, May 08, 2004<br /><br /><B>Abu Gharib, other parts of the picture</B> <br /><br /><br />Yesterday a friend of mine, who’s also a doctor, visited us. After chatting about old memories, I asked him about his opinions on the current situations in Iraq. I’ve always known this friend to be apathetic when it comes to politics, even if it means what’s happening in Iraq. It was obvious that he hadn’t change and didn’t show any interest in going deep into this conversation. However when I asked him about his opinion on GWB response to the prisoners’ abuse issue, I was surprised to see him show anger and disgust as he said:<br /><br /><B>– This whole thing makes me sick.</B> <br /><br />– Why is that?! I asked.<br /><br /><B>– These thugs are treated much better than what they really deserve!</B> <br /><br />– What are you saying!? You can’t possibly think that this didn’t happen! And they’re still human beings, and there could be some innocents among them.<br /><br /><B>– Of course it happened, and I’m not talking about all the prisoners nor do I support these actions, and there could be some innocents among them, but I doubt it.</B> <br /><br />– Then why do you say such a thing?<br /><br /><B>– Because these events have taken more attention than they should.</B> <br /><br />– I agree but there should be an investigation on this. There are other pictures that were shown lately, and there are talks about others that will be shown in the near future.<br /><br /><B>– Yes, but what happened cannot represent more than 1% of the truth.</B> <br /><br />– Oh I really hope there would be no more than that.<br /><br /><B>– No, that’s not what I meant. What I’m saying is that these events are the exception and not the rule.</B> <br /><br />– How do you know that!? I must say I agree with your presumption, but I don’t have a proof, and I never thought you’d be interested in such issue!<br /><br /><B>– I was there for a whole month!</B> <br /><br />– In Abu-Gharib!? What were you doing there!?<br /><br /><B>– It was part of my training! Did you forget that!? I know you skipped that at Saddam’s time, but how could you forget that?</B> <br /><br />– Yes, but I thought that with the American troops there, the system must have been changed.<br /><br /><B>– No it’s still the same. We still have to do a month there.</B> <br /><br />– So tell me what did you see there? How’s the situation of the prisoners? Did you see any abuse? Do they get proper medical care? (I was excited to see someone who was actually there, and he was a friend!)<br /><br /><B>– Hey, slow down! I’ll tell you what I know. First of all, the prisoners are divided into two groups; the ordinary criminals and the political ones. I used to visit the ordinary criminals during every shift, and after that, the guards would bring anyone who has a complaint to me at the prison’s hospital.</B> <br /><br />– What about the ‘political’ ones?<br /><br /><B>– I’m not allowed to go to their camps, but when one of them feels ill, the guards bring him to me.</B> <br /><br />– Are the guards all Americans?<br /><br /><B>– No, the American soldiers with the IP watch over and take care of the ordinary criminals, but no one except the Americans is allowed to get near the political ones.</B> <br /><br />– How are the medical supplies in the prison?<br /><br /><B>– Not very great, but certainly better from what it was on Saddam’s times. However my work is mainly at night, but in the morning the supplies are usually better.</B> <br /><br />– How many doctors, beside you, were there?<br /><br /><B>– There was an American doctor, who’s always their (His name is Eric, a very nice guy, he and I became friends very fast), and other Iraqi doctors with whom I shared the work, and in the morning, there are always some Iraqi senior doctors; surgeons, physicians… etc.</B> <br /><br />– Why do you say they are very well treated?<br /><br /><B>– They are fed much better than they get at their homes. I mean they eat the same stuff we eat, and it’s pretty good; eggs, cheese, milk and tea, meat, bread and vegetables, everything! And that happened every day, and a good quality too.</B> <br /><br />– Are they allowed to smoke? (I asked this because at Saddam’s times, it was a crime to smoke in prison and anyone caught while doing this would be punished severely).<br /><br /><B>– Yes, but they are given only two cigarettes every day.</B> <br /><br />– What else? How often are they allowed to take a bath? (This may sound strange to some people, but my friend understood my question. We knew from those who spent sometime in Saddam’s prisons, and survived, that they were allowed to take a shower only once every 2-3 weeks.)<br /><br /><B>– Anytime they want! There are bathrooms next to each hall.</B> <br /><br />– Is it the same with the ‘political’ prisoners?<br /><br /><B>– I never went there, but I suppose it’s the same because they were always clean when they came to the hospital, and their clothes were always clean too.</B> <br /><br />– How often do they shave? (I remember a friend who spent 45 days in prison at Saddam’s times had told me that the guards would inspect their beards every day to see if they were shaved properly, and those who were not, would be punished according to the guards’ mood. He also told me that they were of course not allowed to have any shaving razors or machines and would face an even worse punishment in case they found some of these on one of the prisoners. So basically all the prisoners had to smuggle razors, which cost a lot, shave in secrecy and then get rid of the razor immediately! That friend wasn’t even a political prisoner; he was arrested for having a satellite receiver dish in his house!)<br /><br /><B>– I’m not sure, from what I saw, it seemed that there was a barber visiting them frequently, because they had different hair cuts, some of them shaved their beards others kept them or left what was on their chins only. I mean it seemed that they had the haircut they desired!</B> <br /><br />– Yes but what about the way they are treated? And how did you find American soldiers in general?<br /><br /><B>– I’ll tell you about that; first let me tell you that I was surprised with their politeness. Whenever they come to the hospital, they would take of their helmets and show great respect and they either call me Sir or doctor. As for the way they treat the prisoners, they never handcuff anyone of those, political or else, when they bring them for examination and treatment unless I ask them to do so if I know that a particular prisoner is aggressive, and I never saw them beat a prisoner and rarely did one of them use an offensive language with a prisoner.<br /><br />One of those times, a member of the American MP brought one of the prisoners, who was complaining from a headache, but when I tried to take history from him he said to me “doctor, I had a problem with my partner (he was a homosexual) I’m not Ok and I need a morphine or at least a valium injection” when I told him I can’t do that, he was outraged, swore at me and at the Americans and threatened me. I told the soldier about that, and he said “Ok Sir, just please translate to him what I’m going to say.” I agreed and he said to him “I want you to apologize to the doctor and I want your word as a man that you’ll behave and will never say such things again” and the convict told him he has his word!!<br /><br />Another incidence I remember was when one of the soldiers brought a young prisoner to the hospital. The boy needed admission but the soldier said he’s not comfortable with leaving the young boy (he was about 18) with those old criminals and wanted to keep him in the isolation room to protect him. I told him that this is not allowed according to the Red Cross regulations. He turned around and saw the paramedics’ room and asked me if he can keep him there, and I told him I couldn’t. The soldier turned to a locked door and asked me about it. I said to him “It’s an extra ward that is almost deserted but I don’t have the keys, as the director of the hospital keeps them with him.” The soldier grew restless, and then he brought some tools, broke that door, fixed it, put a new lock, put the boy inside and then locked the door and gave me the key!</B> <br /><br />– Did you witness any aggressiveness from American soldiers?<br /><br /><B>– Only once. There was a guy who is a troublemaker. He was abnormally aggressive and hated Americans so much. One of those days the soldiers were delivering lunch and he took the soup pot that was still hot and threw it at one of the guards. The guard avoided it and the other guards caught the convict and one of them used an irritant spray that causes sever itching, and then they brought the prisoner to me to treat him.</B> <br /><br />– So you think that these events are isolated?<br /><br /><B>– As far as I know and from what I’ve seen, I’m sure that they are isolated.</B> <br /><br />– But couldn’t it be true that there were abusive actions at those times that the prisoners were afraid to tell you about?<br /><br /><B>– Are you serious!? These criminals, and I mean both types tell me all about there ‘adventures and bravery.’ Some of them told me how they killed an American soldier or burned a humvee, and in their circumstances this equals a confession! Do you think they would’ve been abused and remained silent and not tell me at least!? No, I don’t think any of this happened during the time I was there. It seemed that this happened to a very small group of whom I met no one during that month.</B> <br /><br />– Can you tell me anything about those ‘political’ prisoners? Are they Islamists, Ba’athists or what?<br /><br /><B>– Islamists?? I don't care what they call themselves, but they are thugs, they swear all the time, and most of them are addicts or homosexuals or both. Still very few of them looked educated.</B> <br /><br />– Ah, that makes them close to Ba’athists. Do you think there are innocents among them?<br /><br /><B>– There could be. Some of them say they are and others boast in front of me, as I said, telling the crimes they committed in details. Of course I’m not naive enough to blindly believe either.</B> <br /><br />– Are they allowed to get outside, and how often? Do they have fans or air coolers inside their halls?<br /><br /><B>- Of course they are! Even you still compare this to what it used to be at Saddam’s times and there’s absolutely no comparison. They play volleyball or basketball everyday, and they have fans in their halls.</B> <br /><br />– Do they have sport suits?<br /><br /><B>– No, it’s much better than Saddam’s days but it’s still a prison and not the Sheraton. They use the same clothes but I’ve seen them wearing train shoes when they play.</B> <br /><br />– Are they allowed to read?<br /><br /><B>– Yes, I’ve seen the ordinary criminals read, and I believe the political are allowed too, because I remember one of them asking me to tell one of the American soldiers that he wanted his book that one of the soldiers had borrowed from him.</B> <br /><br />– So, you believe there’s a lot of clamor here?<br /><br /><B>– As you said these things are unaccepted but I’m sure that they are isolated and they are just very few exceptions that need to be dealt with, but definitely not the rule. The rule is kindness, care and respect that most of these thugs don’t deserve, and that I have seen by my own eyes. However I still don't understand why did this happen.</B> <br /><br />– I agree with you, only it’s not about the criminals, it’s about the few innocents who could suffer without any guilt and it’s about us; those who try to build a new Iraq. We can’t allow ourselves to be like them and we can’t go back to those dark times.<br /><br />As for “why”; I must say that these few exceptions happen everywhere, only in good society they can be exposed and dealt with fast, while in corrupted regimes, it may take decades for such atrocities to be exposed which encourage the evil people to go on, and exceptions become the rule.<br /><br />What happened in Abu-Gharib should be a lesson for us, Iraqis, above all. It showed how justice functions in a democratic society. We should study this lesson carefully, since sooner or later we'll be left alone and it will be our responsibility to deal with such atrocities, as these will never cease to happen.<br /><br /><br />–By Ali.Michael McNeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08007336342718478839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28440443539656014762009-05-13T19:32:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:32:00.000-05:00Only doctrinaire libs would be concerned with symb...Only doctrinaire libs would be concerned with symbolism in the middle of a war zone.<br /><br />As to your dinner, I will guess you'd like some broccoli and veggie burger.I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78987136034470465132009-05-13T19:31:00.001-05:002009-05-13T19:31:00.001-05:00I wonder what ObamaNation thinks about his man, OB...I wonder what ObamaNation thinks about his man, OBAMA, opposing the release of more Abu Ghraib photos?<br /><br />Still no word on that.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094488084214911115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44084476358369780232009-05-13T19:31:00.000-05:002009-05-13T19:31:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michael McNeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08007336342718478839noreply@blogger.com