tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1081688686742592833..comments2024-03-28T19:23:37.979-05:00Comments on Althouse: The delusion that Elizabeth Warren "slut-shamed" Kirsten Gillibrand.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger218125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85960022782865169752017-12-14T17:54:40.228-06:002017-12-14T17:54:40.228-06:00Er. Kevin Spacey, sorry.Er. Kevin Spacey, sorry.Qwinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750599555423278972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65281966576946091532017-12-14T17:44:58.755-06:002017-12-14T17:44:58.755-06:00"I see how hard it is to separate a woman bei..."I see how hard it is to separate a woman being paid for her wrong actions and innuendo those wrong actions are of a sexual nature."<br /><br />It is pretty much impossible without having a specific quid pro quo to talk about. Any variant of "would do anything for money" can and will be sexualized, when said about a woman, by a percentage of the women who hear it. The only way one could try to avoid it would be by saying in some fashion "I'm not talking about sex", which is of course talking about sex.<br /><br />The only possible way I can think of to disprove that intent would be to show that the same statements were made about a man in a non-sexual way by the same person. Trump said the same thing, down to the specific word "anything", about Jeb Bush, for God's sake! And Ted Cruz! And the same people complaining now didn't complain about Jeb or Ted being assaulted with "sexual innuendo".<br /><br />That selective accusation says everything about the accusers, and nothing about Trump.<br /><br />The funniest thing in all this is that the reality underlying the complaint is that attractive women are so privileged that they *can* sell sex for tremendous amounts of money and even being choosy of who they sleep with - as in just the men they would've liked to sleep with anyway! It's a pretty fantastic deal that quite a few men would take up if they could! Unfortunately, our only option is to work until we die.<br /><br />Are we really supposed to feel bad for women that they *can* go out and get laid and *receive* $200 / hour, instead of *pay* $200 / hour for the same "privilege"? <br /><br />Yes, I know, "not all women". And the women I hear screaming the loudest right now are the ones that no one would offer $1 / hour to be with, and who can only compensate emotionally for the devastating rejection that is implied by never being flirted with or "sexually harassed" by pretending that they'd hate it if it happened to them.<br /><br />And, of course, our recurring PSA on How To Avoid Committing Sexual Harassment:<br /><br />1. Be handsome.<br />2. Be attractive.<br />3. Don't be unattractive.<br /><br />How many *good looking* men have gone down in the Reckoning so far, compared to ugly ones? Has an analysis been done yet? Ben Affleck was briefly implicated and then forgotten about, if I recall correctly. Same with Matt Damon. Ken Spacey doesn't count for obvious reasons. Everyone else I can think of that's been destroyed so far is not generally considered attractive by women, and the uglier they are, the harder they've fallen. If I were a sociology student looking for a thesis, I'd make a chart out of that.<br /><br />Qwinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750599555423278972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72494849064408249612017-12-14T08:52:48.166-06:002017-12-14T08:52:48.166-06:00Trump wasn't slut-shaming her; he was only sle...Trump wasn't slut-shaming her; he was only sleaze-shaming her!veni vidi vicihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14720172060048711733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51459053502465829842017-12-14T08:02:07.125-06:002017-12-14T08:02:07.125-06:00It’s an Alinsky Delusion. Of course she didn’t ca...It’s an Alinsky Delusion. Of course she didn’t call her a slut. But Mitt Romney was also extremely progressive in hiring women when he was governor - and yet all we remember was the unfare label of “Binders Full of Women.” So, yes, it’s a delusion. But it’s also a delusion the Left would use for every advantage if a Republican said what she said. <br /><br />This is the level of our national discourse. Be proud. Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18307552957596862754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19897695494571974352017-12-14T03:54:27.465-06:002017-12-14T03:54:27.465-06:00Maybe it would help: can someone lock down a defin...Maybe it would help: can someone lock down a definition of "slut shaming?" Or is it just a shibboleth to be intoned, without a definite underlying meaning that would apply in a given situation?<br /><br />I understood "being against slut-shaming" to mean supporting the choices (of women) to engage in otherwise-morally-frowned-upon behavior (sleeping around, sex before marriage, etc) that feminists were "reclaiming." Being against slut shaming in that sense would be resisting the stigma that exists against promiscuous behavior (by women) and telling women that their choices (of what to do with their body) should not face social opprobrium. <br /><br />That definition doesn't make sense here, of course, since even if Trump WAS implying that Gillibrand was willing to engage in sexual activity in exchange for donations in order to oppose that on grounds of anti-slut shaming we'd have to agree that it would be OK for a woman who so choose TO engage in sexual activity in exchange for donations! Like, that'd have to be "just one of the choices" that we think shouldn't face social stigma. But that cant' be what Warren means, right? That, I guess, is what O'Neil is saying--that by casting opposition to Trump's statement as anti slut-shaming Warren is implying that IF Gillibrand or any other woman DID choose to offer sexual access in return for campaign donations THEN we as a society would have to respect that choice/decision. But that's nuts!<br /><br />Eh, forget it. As a man I'm sure my attempt to apply logic and firm definitions to this problem is both insulting (for trying to mansplain) and useless (since I'm just incapable of "getting it"). I really try to <b>think deeply</b> about some of these things but just come away frustrated--the outcome seems wholly driven by appeals to identity (appeals to authority based on identity, I guess) and I just don't have the correct identity myself. Of course, if I started IDENTIFYING as a female feminist (part Native American, etc)...HoodlumDoodlumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17591221162603652473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63048973576652036292017-12-14T03:44:14.039-06:002017-12-14T03:44:14.039-06:00Qwinn said...Hoodlum: If you actually count the re...<i>Qwinn said...Hoodlum: If you actually count the responses, very few are on board with this crap. Ann, Inga. Not many others. Some of the best defenses of Trump on this thread have been from women, especially Florence who provided 3 similar quotes about men.</i><br /><br />I hear you, and I appreciate the lack of unanimity, but just from reading around (news articles, Twitter) it seems like a sizable portion of the nation agree with Warren and Gillibrand's take. For them I get that it's a political posture and I fully understand that "low information" people who are only getting the news from third hand accounts (the daily show, nightly comedy shows, whatever) will lap up whatever biased interpretation they're fed...but that still leaves an awful lot of people who likely read Trump's tweet and jumped to the same conclusion. Possibly I wasn't THINKING DEEPLY about it but I just didn't see that reading at all.<br /><br />It does look like the Dems are going to land on Gillibrand as a champion. From what I've seen she was pretty firmly pro-gun and anti-immigration when first elected to the House in '04 or '06, and of course like most back then she was (at least nominally) anti-same sex marriage. Everyone forgives any Dem who flipped on that issue, of course, but it'll be interesting to see how she defends her swing from anti-immigration to full throated support for amnesty. I guess if she's running against Donald Trump it'll be difficult for the Repubs to hurt her with charges of flip flopping, but against a more principled/less changeable candidate that should really hurt, I'd think. I have to like the chances of a Nikki Haley against Gillibrand...but Gillibrand v. Trump might be tough (understanding that it'd be Gillibrand + the Media + a sizeable portion of the GOPe/NeverTrumpers, etc).<br /><br />I still think, though, that latching onto "victim of sexual harassment via Presidential tweet" is a stupid, stupid move, but since so many people seemed to see it that way when I utterly failed to I have to allow for the possibility that I'm the one out of touch here. Sad!HoodlumDoodlumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17591221162603652473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58911307735799378932017-12-14T01:51:58.060-06:002017-12-14T01:51:58.060-06:00Can anyone deny one read of Trump's comments i...Can anyone deny one read of Trump's comments is that the Gillibrand is being payed to perform a service for the buyers? Let's assume for sake of argument it is true (and I would assume it is true at least in the sense she grants access for money).<br /><br />Two points. What's worse, what Gillibrand does or intentional sexual innuendo by Trump?<br /><br />Second, as I read through the comments I wrote trying to characterize Gillibrand's possible actions, what I wrote had no intentional innuendo. I see how hard it is to separate a woman being paid for her wrong actions and innuendo those wrong actions are of a sexual nature.becauseIdbefiredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08415435616663009513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39659050127588838872017-12-14T00:05:40.285-06:002017-12-14T00:05:40.285-06:00There are male and female sluts, slovenly and inco...There are male and female sluts, slovenly and incongruous. However, there is only one feminist-sponsored slut walk. Why the diversity?n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58503899271127399752017-12-13T23:55:43.092-06:002017-12-13T23:55:43.092-06:00Blogger Bay Area Guy said...
Also, as a remin...<br />Blogger Bay Area Guy said...<br /><br /> Also, as a reminder, not to sound like Mr. Rogers, but when we stray too far from substantive issues:<br /><br /> 1. Desirable tax rate<br /> 2. Appropriate immigration policies<br /> 3. Appropriate response to Islamic terrorism<br /> 4. Defense policy towards North Korea<br /> 5. Trade policy<br /> 6. Replacing Obamacare<br /><br /> ..we are stuck in the leftwing playground. <br />--<br /><br />Feeelz great, don't it?<br />Those things you list must be mansplaining..or worse..walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818749187960350810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59810816274792458782017-12-13T23:46:59.358-06:002017-12-13T23:46:59.358-06:00Both you and Warren are right. The innuendo in Tru...Both you and Warren are right. The innuendo in Trump's tweet was obvious. But I think that Warren put it, maybe, more indelicately. Mark Danielshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18205344762960756655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-12217855519824833182017-12-13T22:32:17.001-06:002017-12-13T22:32:17.001-06:00Hoodlum: If you actually count the responses, ver...Hoodlum: If you actually count the responses, very few are on board with this crap. Ann, Inga. Not many others. Some of the best defenses of Trump on this thread have been from women, especially Florence who provided 3 similar quotes about men.<br /><br />I note that I predicted such quotes would make no difference to Ann, Inga, or anyone else who saw "innuendo" witbout knowing about those quotes. So far, I appear to have been correct.Qwinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750599555423278972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88497899447101218892017-12-13T22:25:17.884-06:002017-12-13T22:25:17.884-06:00Someone posted here that Trumps tweet was sexual h...Someone posted here that Trumps tweet was sexual harassment (before Althouse put up her update) and I had no idea what she was talking about. Total insanity.<br />I see now that insanity is the order of the day.<br />Hey, crazy people? He has used this exact phrase, and something close to this exact phrase, several times in several different tweets about other people, most all of them men. Trump has a pretty limited repertoire of insults and relies on stock phrases...maybe you've noticed.<br /><br />But hey, someone FELT like it was sexual harassment, and even though those people have motive to FEEL a certain way about things we all have to respect their feelings and treat their motivated reasoning/assertions as valid.<br /><br />In short: you people are all fucking nuts and I hope the insane hysteria you're cheering on consumes you all.HoodlumDoodlumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17591221162603652473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70053105962925454962017-12-13T22:21:13.595-06:002017-12-13T22:21:13.595-06:00Food for thought:
Prostitution - sex in direct ex...Food for thought:<br /><br />Prostitution - sex in direct exchange for money - is already completely legal in this country as long as you're willing to have it filmed and posted on the internet.<br /><br />The only essential restriction against paying money for sex is that you may not do so in private. Everybody gets to watch, and we call it porn, and that makes it 100% legal. Or, it's done without cameras, and is therefore illegal. Privacy during sex is the crime.<br /><br />Discuss.Qwinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750599555423278972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54490556348545389902017-12-13T20:35:38.101-06:002017-12-13T20:35:38.101-06:00Many bird with one tag!!!Many bird with one tag!!!Narayananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03007500560335813723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86497259973262101202017-12-13T20:30:52.569-06:002017-12-13T20:30:52.569-06:00Can Trump unstick the label?Can Trump unstick the label?Narayananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03007500560335813723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13495343427738265112017-12-13T20:29:21.188-06:002017-12-13T20:29:21.188-06:00Could be Fauxcahanta is learning the persuasion ga...Could be Fauxcahanta is learning the persuasion game. <br />Narayananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03007500560335813723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37693794575607509752017-12-13T20:25:26.264-06:002017-12-13T20:25:26.264-06:00It was a very good year... It was a very good year... Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63443012085505455002017-12-13T20:23:56.262-06:002017-12-13T20:23:56.262-06:00Story time:
Long ago, when I was a cub in IT help...Story time:<br /><br />Long ago, when I was a cub in IT help desk, back when that was a decent job for Americans and a leg up into the tech world, our team had an outing, including our boss, Lisa, who was a lovely tell Fri K of water from Boondocks, PA somewhere. Very innocent and naive, may e not as much as she let on... The wine was red, or whatever we were drinking - probably gimlets, me. I said something, who even remembers what, and she said, Are you saying that you would sleep with someone without being married to them? And I said, Is that an offer? And we all, men and women, or boys and girls, best out laughing-I rolled the table. <br /><br />OTOH, later I said that the sluttiest thing I ever saw was these fashionable boot-cut jeans. It happened my partner on the desk favored that look and was wearing some that very night. Happily everyone erupted in idle talk and my gaffe was underrugged. Too many gimlets. It never came up again. <br /><br />Dude, babe, professor... It's wordplay! Lighten up! Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44281807082480401282017-12-13T20:15:02.395-06:002017-12-13T20:15:02.395-06:00Literally vs. Seriously. Stupid Android.
Literally vs. Seriously. Stupid Android. <br /><br />Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65348393981446725922017-12-13T20:13:45.678-06:002017-12-13T20:13:45.678-06:00"I'd kill for one of those Teslas!"
..."I'd kill for one of those Teslas!"<br /><br />"I'd sell me own grandma for a cuppa... Well, I'd sell YOUR grandma for a cuppa..."<br /><br />Remember, literally VA. seriously. <br /><br />Althouse, when you get stuck on words like this, we think you are:<br /><br />a) stupid, <br />b) autistic, <br />c) failing your Turing test, <br />d) fucking shitting us,<br />e) all of the above,<br />f) being clever in some way that you have sadz that we don't appreciate. <br /><br />Poll time? <br />Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43710379698250878752017-12-13T20:03:06.020-06:002017-12-13T20:03:06.020-06:00I dunno, I'm having trouble keeping track of t...I dunno, I'm having trouble keeping track of the slurs, slut, slut-shaming,etc., whatever happened to good old-fashioned unmistakable insults? <br /><br />Anyway it reminds me of an bad old joke. The professor is symbology of archaic American Indians and to illustrate the material is creating various circles, wavy lines, star-like shapes on the screen for the assembled audience to see.<br /><br />After a while someone shouts "Professor how dare you subject us to all these obscene images!" The professor shouts back, "Sir, are you referring to these innocent shapes? You obviously have a filthy mind." The guy in the audience hollers, "what are you talking about, you're the one drawing all the dirty pictures!"<br /><br />Trump's tweet contained sexual innuendo? Come on, who really has the dirty mind? All I can say is, it ain't Trump.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10403624779586058004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30773978287224124592017-12-13T19:53:52.716-06:002017-12-13T19:53:52.716-06:00I initially said I agreed that the "Warren sa...I initially said I agreed that the "Warren says Gillibrand is a slut" interpretation and headline was silly, but after being reminded of and thinking about the meaning of slut shaming (and yes, it HAS always meant there's nothing wrong with being a slut), I have to agree, Warren's accusation makes no sense unless Gillibrand is in fact a slut. It's not the same or any kind of extension of "sexual innuendo".<br /><br />Qwinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750599555423278972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65834940266412195402017-12-13T19:44:03.725-06:002017-12-13T19:44:03.725-06:00Sent her, I think that is a borderline declaration...Sent her, I think that is a borderline declaration of war.narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07128976398798678295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37064155254547007822017-12-13T19:36:16.763-06:002017-12-13T19:36:16.763-06:00Remember Caroline Kennedy, was the runner up for t...Remember Caroline Kennedy, was the runner up for that, for reasons passing understanding they subsequent ssender as ambassador to Tokyo.narcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07128976398798678295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39068184994500410572017-12-13T19:31:02.486-06:002017-12-13T19:31:02.486-06:00One of the running gags on Broom Hilda (a comic st...One of the running gags on Broom Hilda (a comic strip about a fictional kind-hearted but often crabby witch in a poor-side-of-town version of fairyland who was basically a 'comic' version of a lonely older woman with a lousy job and sarcastic friends and no husband)<br /><br />(Broom Hilda is a comic strip I read in my teen years with compassion both for the title character and her surrounding cast - wondering back then, before effective acne medicine was a thing, if one day I too would be a running gag for others, an unattractive older person looking for physical affection and respect in a world where my feared lack of what we now call SMV would be as obvious to all as poor Broom Hilda's lack of SMV was obvious - (nota bene - however I did disapprove without reservations of Broom Hilda's long ago decision to buy that first broom - Sad!) <br /><br />as I was saying, one of the running gags on Broom Hilda was the way the lesser characters would say the wrong thing in the wrong way about this thing that none of them understood, genuine affection as shared among the fortunate and attractive, and respect for their well-coupled happiness. Which Broom Hilda, of course, and her little friends, too, would never ever, never ever achieve, as long as the comic strip was published in the daily papers. <br /><br />That was humor, in the 70s. I feel quite confident that Elizabeth Warren and Donald Trump both neglected to read, with as much care as me, Broom Hilda, back in the day.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05327359512133977327noreply@blogger.com