২ আগস্ট, ২০২৬

RFK Jr. excoriates Dana Bash: "You're talking nonsense. You're making assertions. You can't support it. And then when I call you on them, they're you're telling me I'm arguing...."


"Do you see your job as ending vaccine hesitancy or do you see your job as telling the truth to the American people?... All you know how to do is repeat things that people told you and say trust the experts. That's what you do.... Now we know that Anthony Fauci, who was the expert, was lying about everything about masks, about social distancing, about natural immunity, about the transmission from the vaccine, about the source of COVID. He was lying. And you were punishing people for not trusting the experts. And now you're rolling out the experts again to talk about something that you have no personal knowledge of...."
এর দ্বারা পোস্ট করা Ann Althouse এই সময়ে ১০:১২ AM
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«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন   ‹পুরাতন   232 এর 201 – থেকে 232
Peachy+2 বলেছেন...

Kak-a-desperation.
So pathetic.

২/৮/২৬, ১০:১২ PM
Christopher B বলেছেন...

"no vaccine has ever provided 100% sterilizing immunity. Not polio, not measles, not influenza."

There seems to be a really significant disease missing from that list, and it's omission is probably not an oversight.

২/৮/২৬, ১০:১৫ PM
Hey Skipper বলেছেন...


IEE @1932: "The Diamond Princess was valuable early data, but a cruise ship full of mostly older passengers was hardly a perfect stand-in for the entire world."

You do realize this weakens your case, right?
The panicdemic was driven by some jackass Brit from the University of Essex claiming there would be over three million dead in the US within six months, because modeling said so.

But we already knew that a ship with 3117 people on board, the vast majority of whom were in the heart of Covid's threat envelope, suffered 14 deaths.

That is 0.45%, which had to be the upper limit for population mortality. Actual rate? 0.34%

So, three-ish times more than an average flu season.
Obvious from the get-go.

Just was obvious, and well established: NPI 's are futile; might as well wear garlic garlands. Remember all the Super Spreader™ events that weren't? Any apologies from The Experts for getting that completely wrong?

Go back to March 2020 and start reading through the relevant posts. Plenty here saw that.

Fauci and blue state regimes got it completely wrong. To date, not one acknowledgment.

What wildswan @1909 said bears repeating: "And what he did was a crime - every undereducated child, every ruined small business, everyone arrested or shamed, every military person forced out, all the lockdown troubles, all the old people who died alone - all these unecessary tribulations trace back to Fauci, because, such was his position, he could have stopped all the madness just by saying that his own knowledge had evolved. And it seems from his Diary, he just was thinking about adulation and cash."

All for a population mortality rate of 0.34%.


২/৮/২৬, ১০:২৮ PM
Mason G বলেছেন...

"The Diamond Princess was valuable early data, but a cruise ship full of mostly older passengers was hardly a perfect stand-in for the entire world."

Who, aside from you, said 'perfect'?

২/৮/২৬, ১০:৩৬ PM
Kirk Parker বলেছেন...

Aggie,

"There are was an early COVID-19 official response ... in reaction to a whole host of unknowns, and the public decision-makers had a very tough time trying to make good choices, with so much unverified data out there.

"I have a lot of sympathy for people that step up and shoulder the weight under those circumstances. They deserve slack and a good bit of benefit-of-the-doubt, and acceptance that they're trying to do the best they can, rightly or wrongly."

No way. It would be comforting to believe that, but to do so you have to ignore the end run around GOF restrictions, the pandemic wargaming prior to 2020, the preposterous hysterically exaggerated modeling pushed by Imperial College London (always wrong but never in doubt)... There is plenty of evidence of malfeasance and bad faith right from day one, and even before.

২/৮/২৬, ১১:২৮ PM
Iman বলেছেন...

“Nobody here believes this, but I actually voted for Trump in the last election”

Nobody gives a rip about who you voted for, clown.

৩/৮/২৬, ১২:৩৬ AM
Vance বলেছেন...

Has IEEE in his "I'm just reciting Science Which Supports Democrats!" ever explained how Covid was politically aware like all the "Scientists!" told us it was? How you'd die in agony if you went to church but if you went to riot for George Floyd you were perfectly safe because Covid wouldn't touch you?

Has IEEE ever told us how a Democrat rally/riot was totally ok, but less than an hour later a Trump rally was a massive death trap from Covid? NBC said so. That's "SCIENCE!" according to IEEE and his party.

৩/৮/২৬, ৩:০৭ AM
donald বলেছেন...

Checking in to say that you need to get a life Achilles.

৩/৮/২৬, ৭:২৩ AM
Aggie বলেছেন...

@Kirk Parker. I think we're in a stage right now where a lot of pent up anger and frustration is rightfully being aired. I will be as disappointed as the rest of the world, if Fauci and Daszac and the rest of those criminals, with and without pardons, are allowed to skate. I will be more disappointed if reforms don't arise so that the next pandemic is better, less autocratically managed, and more importantly, so that people aren't such sheep.

The notion that Fauci and others actually have a profit motive is the most obscene part of this whole thing. The notion that a small group of informed people could actually fan the flames of panic intentionally to scare people into submission, knowing that the thing wasn't so deadly, is evil. It's 'Climate of Fear' stuff.

But what you're talking about is not what I'm talking about. Yes, it would appear that the skulduggery behind the scenes was going on for a long time, an end run around scientific and legal controls, to continue dangerous and unethical research, but I suspect we will find out that the motivations are complicated, not just evil scientist, develop-bioweapons, control-civilization and rule-the-world evil scientists.

I do not imagine that every single public policy maker or municipal leader across the US was privy to all of this knowledge when people started getting sick with a new disease, previously unseen. The Chinese panicked, as we saw, behaving inhumanely. The rest of the world mostly didn't, but a lot of people were whipped up into a fear. Those front line people, doctors and health workers, people responsible for public health, were operating blind for quite some time, when you consider the first reported illnesses started around September, 2019. Trump, too. You wouldn't cut them any slack, for sub-optimal or poor decision making? I'm not talking about the petty tyrants that exploited the situation for cynical reasons, I'm talking about managers that were trying to keep their people safe, people that recognized society needs to keep running, others that had to create a structure with guidelines out of their emergency response plans to confront the situation. I cut them slack, because I've been in that position before, having to make decisions and create plans to address unknowns. There were perhaps many stupid decisions made, but they were not evil ones.

The evil ones came from those who moved to shut up people or destroy them because they wouldn't repeat the right words - the ones that actually practiced science, and were punished for doing so. That has to be fixed for next time too. We won't get there by punishing everybody that made a policy decision on COVID-19.

৩/৮/২৬, ৮:৪৯ AM
Howard (not that Howard) বলেছেন...

Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ said...

8/2/26, 7:32 PM

"The Diamond Princess was valuable early data, but a cruise ship full of mostly older passengers was hardly a perfect stand-in for the entire world."

What a stupid, stupid take. Are you really ignoring the 1,000 crew members that lived in extremely close quarters and were required to continue working? Do you know how many of them died? Zero. Only 145 of them tested positive before the PCR cycles were upped to 40+. The covid strain was the first one, and the most virulent. It was a perfect study of who was at risk and who was not. Mostly ignored by the "experts."

It wasn't about stopping or mitigating a disease. It was about exercising power.

৩/৮/২৬, ৯:০০ AM
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ বলেছেন...

The Diamond Princess was informative—but not “a perfect study.” A cruise ship isn’t a random cross-section of humanity, and one outbreak can’t answer every question about a novel virus. Scientists didn’t ignore it; they incorporated it alongside hundreds of subsequent studies. Declaring it proved everything, then concluding the pandemic response was “about power,” is quite a leap for evidence that was always just one piece of a much larger puzzle.

৩/৮/২৬, ৯:১৫ AM
Vance বলেছেন...

And IEEE once again for now the third time refuses to comment about the science of riots and covid. All while he claims to be reminding us of how brilliant and wonderful Fauci and the rest were and what a good job they did.

Yessir, it was pure Science! that Democrat politicians got to gather for John Lewis' funeral while the rest of us watched our grandma's and grandpa's die alone with no one around and we couldn't have a funeral. Pure Science! said that Democrat politicians were allowed to eat in restaurants and take off their masks at ball games while the SWAT teams had to arrest people walking alone on the beach. That's IEEE's "pure science!" that he is defending.

৩/৮/২৬, ৯:৪৮ AM
Known Unknown বলেছেন...

"The Chinese panicked, as we saw, behaving inhumanely."

Hilarious. The Chinese always behave inhumanely. That's not panicking that is protocol.

৩/৮/২৬, ৯:৪৯ AM
donald বলেছেন...

It was four touchdowns Bagoh. In the big game. Apples and oranges my man!

৩/৮/২৬, ১০:০৮ AM
Howard (not that Howard) বলেছেন...

With the closed environment and elderly-skewed population, while not randomized, it was still an extremely indicative situation. And it certainly did answer every question about for whom it was dangerous and whom it was not.

৩/৮/২৬, ১০:০৯ AM
bob বলেছেন...

What is Dana's expertise? Reading off a chyron or a sheet of paper. Yet she tries to debate someone whose career has been to litigate (and hence, investigate) the damage and the shortcomings of vaccines. He doesn't need to keep searching for info on a sheet of paper. He's written books about it. He's won huge settlements in court. Such displays of ignorance as hers is what gives TV journalists such a bad reputation for bias. Because bias is all they have to fall back on.

৩/৮/২৬, ১০:২৬ AM
Hey Skipper বলেছেন...

IEE @0915: "The Diamond Princess was informative—but not 'a perfect study.' A cruise ship isn’t a random cross-section of humanity, and one outbreak can’t answer every question about a novel virus."

Okay, what would be a perfect study? And how would a perfect study, trump reality?

Perhaps you have forgotten the USS Roosevelt. 4500 crew, no lockdowns, masking, or social distancing possible.

One fatality.

Two questions, the most important of all, answered: much lower population mortality than predicted by The Experts ™, mortality almost exclusively limited to the elderly.

That was in March 2020. Yet the CDC and blue states imposed punishing mandates just as if the Diamond Princess and USS Roosevelt never happened.

"Declaring it proved everything, then concluding the pandemic response was 'about power,' is quite a leap for evidence that was always just one piece of a much larger puzzle."

The two ships didn't prove everything, but they did clearly show what the upper limit of population mortality would be. Had the CDC et al adjusted their pronouncements accordingly, we wouldn't have been put through two years of government inflicted insanity.

By the way, is this a bad time to bring up the Great Barrington Declaration?

The lockdowns, social distancing, masking, etc were both onerous and ineffectual. I don't know if that is about power, or that self-described progressives are some combination of stupid, ignorant, and incapable of analytical thought.

Given their self-inflicted wounds, I'm inclined towards the latter.

৩/৮/২৬, ১১:৩৮ AM
Hey Skipper বলেছেন...

Forgot: here is an interesting PubMed paper on just how badly wrong The Science ™ was, compared to, well, reality.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7301657/

৩/৮/২৬, ১১:৪০ AM
Aggie বলেছেন...

@Skipper... Thanks for the reference, calling attention to those early Imperial College simulations that were proving to be badly wrong, yet drove policy decision making. Published June 17th, 2020.

... and of course by June 2020, what else happened? Oh that's right. COVID-19 infectious disease risk was shunted aside by an even bigger public health risk: Racism ! And the doctors prescribed some good old fashioned health measures for this new public health menace: Plenty of exercise, which can be had from: Riots !

৩/৮/২৬, ১২:২৬ PM
Mr. O. Possum বলেছেন...


The deeper question is why did the U.S. government conduct gain-of-function (i.e. weaponization) research in the People's Republic of China? We had to have known that the Wuhan Lab, besides being controlled by the Communist party, was subject to control by the Chinese military which has long been known to have an interest in biological warfare.

The Sunday Times of London on June 10, 2023, wrote at length about Chinese military activity at the Wuhan Lab to weaponize viruses.

"The State Department investigators wrote in their report: “Despite presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the Wuhan Institute of Virology has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The Wuhan Institute of Virology has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.

“One of the investigator sources said the secret military-funded experiments on the mine virus, RaTG13, began in 2016. At around that time, the Wuhan institute became even less open about its work and mostly stopped revealing any new coronaviruses it discovered. In the lead-up to the pandemic, the Wuhan institute frequently experimented on coronaviruses alongside the Academy of Military Medical Sciences, a research arm of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA). In published papers, military scientists are listed as working for the Beijing Institute of Microbiology and Epidemiology, which is the military academy’s base.

The military was also given positions of responsibility in the Wuhan institute, according to a US Senate report. A book published in 2015 by the military academy discusses how Sars viruses represent a “new era of genetic weapons” that can be “artificially manipulated into an emerging human disease virus, then weaponised and unleashed”.

৩/৮/২৬, ২:২০ PM
Mr. O. Possum বলেছেন...

Part 2 of above post...Quoting The London Times...

"The authors are PLA researchers, and one of the book’s editors has collaborated on numerous scientific papers with Wuhan scientists. They discuss how Sars can be weaponised by fusing it with other viruses and “serial passaging” the resulting mutant to make it more dangerous...

"The investigators [US State Department investigators — including experts on China, emerging pandemic threats, and biowarfare] believe the Chinese military had taken an interest in developing a vaccine for the viruses so they could be used as potential bioweapons. If a country could inoculate its population against its own secret virus, it might have a weapon to shift the balance of world power.

The PLA had its own vaccine specialist, Zhou Yusen, a decorated military scientist at the academy, who had collaborated with the Wuhan scientists on a study of the Mers coronavirus and was working with them at the time of the outbreak.

Suspicion fell on him after the pandemic because he produced a patent for a Covid vaccine with remarkable speed in February 2020, little more than a month after the outbreak of the virus had first been admitted to the world by China.

A report published in April, co-authored by Dr Robert Kadlec, who was responsible for the US’s vaccine development programme, concluded that Zhou’s team must have been working on a vaccine no later than November 2019 — just as the pandemic began. One of the US investigators said testimony from scientists connected to the Wuhan institute’s collaborators suggested Covid-19 vaccine work was going on at the laboratory before the outbreak.

In May 2020, aged just 54, Zhou appears to have died, a fact mentioned only in passing in a Chinese-media report and in a scientific paper that placed the word “deceased” in brackets after his name. Witnesses are said to have told the US investigation that Zhou fell from the roof of the Wuhan institute, although this has not been verified."

Fauci surely knew about Chinese military involvement in the Wuhan Lab. What madness for the U.S. to do research with the Chinese military looking over our shoulder or working with us. This would be a very good reason for Fauci and the U.S. government to want to make people think Covid had a natural origin.

৩/৮/২৬, ২:২১ PM
Lazarus বলেছেন...

This is a slogan from Dana Bash: "The COVID vaccine prevented deaths. There is data, upon data, upon data." It doesn't take into account the fact that children and those not in at-risk groups didn't need the vaccine, or whether ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine were more effective, or the falsity of claims that one couldn't get COVID if one were vaccinated, or the harmful effects that the vaccine had on many, or the role of natural immunity in causing the virus to recede. QED, most of what's said in any argument is a "slogan" and that's not just restricted to the side one disagrees with.

৩/৮/২৬, ৩:০২ PM
Kirk Parker বলেছেন...

Aggie,

Thanks for a very detailed reply. I am snowed under at work today, but I will try to give you the response it deserves; check back tomorrow if you want to see it.

৩/৮/২৬, ৪:০১ PM
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ বলেছেন...

Possum @ 2:20:
The problem is that you’ve taken several separate facts and welded them into one conclusion that hasn’t actually been proven.

Yes, the Wuhan Institute collaborated with Chinese military researchers. Yes, the U.S. funded some coronavirus research through intermediaries. No, that doesn’t automatically make it a U.S.-funded bioweapons program.

That’s a bit like saying NASA once collaborated with the Air Force, therefore every weather satellite is secretly a Death Star. Evidence doesn’t work by association, it works by proving the specific claim.

If we’re going to follow the evidence, we should resist filling in the gaps with the plot twist we’d most like to be true.

৩/৮/২৬, ৫:৩৯ PM
Indefinitely Extended Excursion™️ বলেছেন...

Possum @ 2:21
That’s an interesting chain of inferences, but it’s still a chain of inferences.

Chinese military involvement with the Wuhan Institute has been documented. China’s lack of transparency is well documented. None of that establishes that Fauci knew of specific military activities, participated in them, or promoted a natural-origin theory to conceal them.

Notice how often the argument relies on phrases like “investigators believe,” “suspicion fell,” “must have,” and “appears to have.” Those are leads for further investigation—not substitutes for evidence.

It’s entirely reasonable to scrutinize China’s actions. It’s less reasonable to treat every unanswered question as proof that your preferred answer is correct.

৩/৮/২৬, ৫:৪৩ PM
bagoh20 বলেছেন...

"Chinese military involvement with the Wuhan Institute has been documented. China’s lack of transparency is well documented. None of that establishes that Fauci knew of specific military activities, participated in them, or promoted a natural-origin theory to conceal them."

So your are defending him with the argument that he's an idiot? That's charitable, and compassionate, just not toward the right people.

৩/৮/২৬, ৮:৩৮ PM
bagoh20 বলেছেন...

If you are going to risk millions of human lives , maybe a little caution is in order, like not trusting people you just described and entirely untrustworthy.

৩/৮/২৬, ৮:৪৩ PM
Bruce Hayden বলেছেন...

“RFK Jr. says you shouldn’t get a Covid vaccine. All doctors and research results say you should. For busy Americans, it can be hard to know who to trust.”

Total BS. I use knowledge of the Covid-19 ModRNA jab as the benchmark to determine competence of doctors. If they try to tell me that it was safe and effective, I look elsewhere. Partner’s spine surgeon explained that he knew that it was dangerous, but he couldn’t do surgery anywhere in town without it. And fixing backs was his life. So took the jab, and had a reoccurrence of rain cancer, that he had had 40-50 years earlier (exactly the same that happened to her step son). On the flip side, her pain management doctor believes in it. She is switching to a new one, who is going to redo the injection that the first one appears to have screwed up. He couldn’t take her as a patient, until we had a NV address, that we have now. My experience is that the smarter the doctor, the more they questioned the ModRNA Jab.

৩/৮/২৬, ১০:১৩ PM
Bruce Hayden বলেছেন...

“ Covid vaccines are not polio vaccines - Kak-a-liar.”

Because COVID-19 “vaccines” were never real vaccines. They were gene therapies. They reduce the chance of getting sick from the virus, but do not provide sterilizing immunity at all, except for the two spike proteins, that were mutated around by the end of the first year.

Normally, what happens with vaccines is that they introduce the body’s immune system to either a very weak or inactivated version of the virus. The immune system learns from that to recognize the virus and produce the appropriate antibodies, much more quickly than otherwise.

The COVID-19 ModRNA “vaccines” operate very differently. The Modified RNA is injected into a muscle. It moves from there into the lymph nodes, thence into the circulatory system, and the blood it is in, through the heart, the rest of the body, through the heart again, etc. and theoretically, that is why the heart, arteries, and veins are so susceptible.

In any case, the ModRNA enters cells, throughout the body (utilizing the two spike proteins), and its preempts the cell’s protein production machinery to produce immense quantities of those two spike proteins. The immune system learns that the spike proteins are an antigen, and produces the appropriate. Antibodies. Due to the quantities generated, the immune system quickly identifies the two spike proteins as antigens - on the first jab. Note the trick here - the spike proteins are on the surface of the virus. They have to be, because that’s how they attach to cells. The cells containing the ModRNA continue to produce the spike proteins, until the immune system identifies them as containing or producing the spike proteins, at which time the immune system destroys those cells. This happens over a typical extinction curve, with a half life of maybe a couple weeks. After maybe 6 weeks, production of spike proteins is down significantly, and is why they suggested the 2nd jab at a month to 6 weeks. And further jabs on a similar schedule.

The way this works is that the antibodies for the spike proteins stay at a fairly high level for an extended period of time. When the virus is detected, through their two spike proteins, the antibodies are already circulating in large numbers, attach to the viri exhibiting those spike proteins, and are destroyed, before the virus gets to a critical level of infection.

What’s wrong with that? One big one is that it is extremely expensive in terms of immune system resources. If the immune system spends much of its resources fighting the spike proteins generated by the ModRNA, it doesn’t have enough resources available to do everything else it’s supposed to do. That’s presumptively why these old cancers come back, as well as old viral infections like Shingles. The immune system has been playing whack-a-mole for decades, and now it can’t.

৪/৮/২৬, ১২:৩৮ AM
Bruce Hayden বলেছেন...

Another problem, is that the immune system concentrates on the two spike proteins, because with the first jab, that is what the immune system sees. Real vaccines become sensitive and recognizes parts of the whole virus. The problem that arises is that that puts evolutionary pressure on those two spike proteins to mutate. And mutate they did. By the summer (July/Ahugust) after the ModRNA gene therapy, the spike proteins only had a 50% cross reactivity with the predominant circulating variant (Delta), and by the end of the year (December), there was 10% cross reactivity with the then predominant circulating variant (Omicron). It was amazing watching the graphs, with Omicron completely sweeping through the various circulating variants, going from under 10% to over 90% of all COVID-19 viruses in this country in less than a month.

You would think with that 10% cross reactivity, that the ModRNA gene therapy manufacturers would have switched out the Wuhan variant spike proteins, which had initially had almost 100% cross reactivity, with their vaccines, for Omicron spike proteins (with 10%). Didn’t happen for almost two years, and even then, instead of dropping the Wuhan variant spike proteins, they just added producing the Omicron variant spike proteins, in their Bivalent vaccine.

So what was the effect of injecting Wuhan variant spike protein generating ModRNA VACCINES? My view? Likely nothing positive. Each jab generated a lot of Wuhan variant spike proteins, and the immune system generated a lot of Wuhan variant spike protein antibodies. But no one was seeing any Wuhan variant virons any more. For the most part, the antibodies produced were the usual IgG1 and IgG3. But eventually, the Wuhan spike protein antibodies were sometimes being converted to IgG4, after they were essentially classed as chronic. But eventually then, they were essentially wasted immune system resources.

৪/৮/২৬, ১:১৬ AM
Bruce Hayden বলেছেন...

Why circulatory and heart issues. As noted above, the ModRNA circulated through the heart, arteries, and veins, until they could invade cells. But the heart, arteries, and veins are constructed from cells. Once invaded, the cells produced the spike proteins until they are identified by the immune system for presenting the spike proteins. And then the immune system usually (with exceptions such as nerve cells) kills them. Myocarditis and Pericarditis are the result of too many cells in certain places in the heart having died - in this case killed by the immune system.

৪/৮/২৬, ১:২৪ AM
Bruce Hayden বলেছেন...

"no vaccine has ever provided 100% sterilizing immunity. Not polio, not measles, not influenza."

Herd immunity can be calculated. It’s the percentage of a population that needs to be immune to protect the herd. It’s a function of infectivity. The more infectious a virus is, the higher the herd immunity threshold is. If I remember correctly, COVID-19 started with maybe a 70% herd immunity. You needed to get the immune level to 70% to pretty much guarantee that the virus won’t sweep through the vulnerable population. As viruses mutate, they tend to become less lethal, but more infectious. COVID-19 was no exception. Infectivity in Delta brought the herd immunity level to roughly 90%. And Omicron brought it close to 100%. Which meant that herd immunity was, ultimately unattainable.

So what stopped the virus? It wasn’t the ModRNA vaccines. They provided protection against viruses with Wuhan variant spike proteins. But not after Omiron variant virus became predominant. What happened was that a significant portion of the population actually caught the virus, and developed whole virus natural immunity from it. The medical system mostly missed it, because a lot of people really didn’t present much in the way of symptoms for it. And kids were the worst there. They might have some sniffles. But they very often had sniffles. So pretty much no one noticed them.

৪/৮/২৬, ২:১৭ AM
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