"... and raced to reopen federal agencies in 2018, as their more moderate members demanded a fast resolution after only three days. This shutdown could be different. The Democrats from red states who decried the shutdown strategy as a foolish miscalculation and pressed for an immediate reversal in the showdown with President Trump seven years ago are long gone. The ideological makeup of the party has shifted to the left, and Democrats are now bracing for an extended confrontation with the White House and congressional Republicans, despite the clear political risks. The same dynamic is at play in the G.O.P., which has lurched to the right under Mr. Trump and no longer sees room for compromise."
Writes Carl Hulse, in
"Democrats See No Need to Capitulate, Nor Republicans to Cut a Deal/The last time Senate Democrats found themselves taking the blame for a government shutdown, they quickly caved. That’s less likely to happen now" (NYT).
How does spending some time in shutdown achieve anything? Doesn't everyone know everything they need to know before the shutdown even begins? Are they just waiting to annoy and otherwise torment us so they can then poll us to see who we blame? I think they already know that everyone blames the party they started out disliking more. Nevertheless, we must endure the bad political theater.
పోస్ట్లు
128 కామెంట్లు:
The best part of a real shutdown will be to demonstrate just how little our government does that is beneficial for Americans.
Hopefully there are 100,000 fewer government employees next time it starts back up.
I follow the news, and I have no idea why the D's are refusing to pass the budget. Some claim its because of health care issues but the R's disagree and say its about medicare for illegal aliens.
Its all tedious and boring and can laid at the door of the Senate Republicans who persist in allowing a Filibuster of budgetary issues. Some things arent covered by the filibuster but other things are. Its incredibly stupid, since the Senate R's are always too gutless to shut down the Government over anything.
Hey, what's going on? This reporter isn't doing the de rigueur BS.
Trump suggests he could make 'irreversible' cuts if the government shuts down
It sounds like Trump thinks there’s benefit in a shutdown for Republicans.
"It sounds like Trump thinks there’s benefit in a shutdown for Republicans."
He's finally getting that congressional authorization the important brains were saying he needed.
This may precipitate the overdue Democratic fracture, as they were resolutely united against Trump and moved in lockstep until Joe Biden's inflation debacle of 2022. But, Democrats historically operate in circular firing squads.
With moderates Manchin, Sinema, and Eric Adams pushed out, and with Tulsi, Joe Rogan, and RFK Jr defecting, a shutdown may lead to the loooooooooooong overdue internal split. This was going to happen with Occupy Wall Street and Tax the 1% and the Bernie Bros vs. Hillary...then TDS united all the Democrats.
A split Democratic Party guarantees total losses for a generation, and they've known it since 2016. Still, I don't see how a group of arch enemies can stay together much longer.
Probably works havoc on tbill ladders.
"It sounds like Trump thinks there’s benefit in a shutdown for Republicans."
Then why is Schumer imposing the shutdown? Everything is in his hands.
So, uh... can we get those mass firings now?
“ the G.O.P., which has lurched to the right under Mr. Trump”
I don’t see any movement (let alone lurching) to the right under Trump. The difference is Trump actually is pursuing traditional Republican talking points.
"The same dynamic is at play in the G.O.P., which has lurched to the right under Mr. Trump and no longer sees room for compromise."
Sure, Jan. Murkowski, Thune, Paul, Lankford, Collins and the rest of the GOP surrender monkeys are virtually John Birch Society members now.
"I don’t see any movement (let alone lurching) to the right under Trump. The difference is Trump actually is pursuing traditional Republican talking points."
This is true. If you take a point in time, say the mid-nineties, and track political changes of the parties since then, both parties have moved leftward. The Republicans slightly and the Democrats bigly. The point has been made by many other talking heads, but policy-wise Trump sounds very much like an Anti-NAFTA centrist Democrat.
@Bob B quote on Trump causing a lurch to the right.
The left is so far over the horizon on the globe of political options that they don't know "right wing" when they see it. They can't tell the difference between left-of-center, center, right-of-center or far-right. When you are at the south pole, everything is north of you.
Trump is rude, crude, and pushy, but that's a standard resident of New York City. But in pushing what is effectively 1990s Clinton "triangulation" today, rude Trump seems right wing. True conservatives would never propose Trump's Santa Claus 2025 budget. Never.
"How does spending some time in shutdown achieve anything? Doesn't everyone know everything they need to know before the shutdown even begins?"
The same could be said about (to take one example) strikes. Yet strikes happen. It's about demonstrating seriousness of purpose by a willingness to absorb pain. The problem is that in this case all of the pain is on the D side.
Anybody else having a craving for Fritos?
Doesn't everyone know everything they need to know before the shutdown even begins?
Both sides live in different realities. One of them needs to be awoken from their fever dream.
Republicans offered a compromise. Dems could have kicked the can 4 weeks down the road. The other compromise isn’t happening because polls say the American people don’t want what the Dems are demanding.
So yes, it is political theater to move the polls. How did that go with Texas redistricting? Oh yeah, Dems caved and nobody but Dems cared.
“Doesn't everyone know everything they need to know before the shutdown even begins?”
No, because they don’t know how strong their position will be relative to the other side’s position once the government shuts down. They can guess but they can’t know.
In any case, last minute deals are the hallmark of how our Congressional budget process has worked for the last twenty years. No one will deal before the last minute. Congress could change that system, but there are lawmakers on both sides who like it the way it is.
The budget battles happen the way they do because senators sometimes need to campaign against their own party to win the next election. Some states are internally nuanced or purple (even Maryland and California), but vote as a monolith with party labels. California has a long history of fiscally conservative "business Democrats," for example.
Are they just waiting to annoy and otherwise torment us so they can then poll us to see who we blame?
Yes, I think Democrats are all in on 'control the narrative' and they view Trump as a disturbing but temporary anomaly. Any moment people are going to go back to eating the dog food we so diligently prepare for them in MSM. What else are Democrats going to do? Capitulate? Change their policies? Never...
I love he idea Trump will wield a hatchet if things are shut down but I'd bet against it in a second...
James K: "The same could be said about (to take one example) strikes. "
This reminded me that Trump, in an Oval presser yesterday, mistakenly referred to the Dem vote as a "strike." As a businessman in a heavily unionized city, he has been through a lot of them. He is probably applying the same psychology and tactics to this thing. CC, JSM
Why should we compromise at the threat of a shutdown? Because Schumer doesn't have to votes to stop anything else except a CR?
CRs have become so routine that this is a stupid hill to die on and Schumer has abdicated his leadership position by negotiating himself and his party into this box canyon. The way out is for Chuck to compromise, but don't ask Trump to save your face. You bought this shutdown and you own it, Schumer.
Lots of moist fingers held aloft.
El Predicto sez: Polls will be designed and published more for purposes of influence more than enlightenment.
Trump suggests he could make 'irreversible' cuts if the government shuts down
This was a clearly articulated warning given before the shutdown. Too bad Schumer ignored it. Cuts made from programs that are unfunded (as most are right now) allow for permanent reductions in Federal workforces. Permanent. We've all known this was a possibility for a week. All Chuck has done is dither, and it's what he does best actually.
I mean Chuckie threw a fit when it came time to "advise and consent" on Budget Director Russell Vought's nomination. You dumb democrats knew he was Chainsaw Russ. WTF. You are where you are by your own making.
"Then why is Schumer imposing the shutdown?"
Because Schummer fears AOC more than he loves Americans.
"Because Schummer fears AOC more than he loves Americans."
I think this is right. More generally, the democrat base is demanding that Schumer "make a stand". But, Schumer should know better.
“We’ve shown the Republicans that they can’t bully us, they can’t bludgeon us,” Schumer told MSNBC.
Why don’t Chuck and the rest of the democrats just say it how it is: Trump’s tax cuts added four trillion to the deficit and now they are coming after your healthcare to keep the government open.
Wouldn't true conservatives welcome the shutdown? Isn't a prime value of conservatism smaller/less federal government. I welcome the shutdown. The federal government is bloated and needs to be trimmed. DOGE tried to fire federal workers and met resistance from the Dems and the courts. Now Trump can shut down unnecessary departments without Dem resistance and presumably the courts interfering.
Democrats can't even keep their lies er talking points straight. Mark Warner says it's a lie that illegals are getting Medicaid but Ro Khanna says that is exactly what the shutdown is for. The bill Schumer submitted for discussion to the White House also listed "reimbursements" to states who imposed costs insuring illegals. A lobbyist named Desiree Townsend says it ALL about reimbursing CA because it will go bankrupt if they don't get a bailout for their illegal medical spending.
How can you negotiate with Republicans in Congress to fund the government when as soon as you reach an agreement you know that Trump’s OMB director will just withhold the funds?
I wonder which story they tell will be true, if any.
There were aspects of the Clinton presidency that rode like a sugar high in the 1990s. He was an excellent communicator and a master of positive vibes. However, with the benefit of hindsight, I think his policy legacy was largely self-serving, and a disaster for both the Democratic Party and the country.
It was Clinton who initiated some of the final blows against the New Deal regime through telecom and banking de-regulation. One of the interesting factoids about the Clinton history is that he and Gingrich were actually negotiating Social Security privatization just before the Lewinsky scandal broke. His embrace of free trade also did significant damage to labor unions.
“…and now they are coming after your healthcare to keep the government open.”
Expiration of the enhanced Affordable Care Act (ACA) premium tax credits…
“The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) project that millions of people will see their net premiums more than double, with some losing their coverage entirely.
Impact on health insurance premiums
Average premium increase: KFF estimates that the average premium payment for subsidized enrollees will more than double, rising by 114% from an average of $888 in 2025 to $1,904 in 2026.”
its a floor wax, its a dessert topping,
it takes a little effort, ross sorkin, nocera ferguson did not even atttempt it, to discover how the Subprime crisis was seeded by the CRA revisions under Clinton, (Morgenstern and Wallison did keep the receipts)
rehajm said...
I love he idea Trump will wield a hatchet if things are shut down but I'd bet against it in a second...
****************
You would have lost that bet:
https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2025/10/federal-government-shuts-down-750k-workers-expected-to-be-furloughed-some-fired.html
Here are some actual cuts, so far:
https://www.space.com/space-exploration/nasa-closes-doors-to-15-000-employees-as-us-government-shutdown-begins
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/dot-to-furlough-over-12000-employees-mostly-from-faa-during-government-shutdown
There is always the possibility that Schumer is setting up the progressives in his party. You think we need this, fine. You’ll get the blame. By now, he must realize the mid-terms aren’t going to follow tradition. If they are lost, then use 2026 to clean your house, because 2028 will be more important anyway.
Whatever the case, here we are and already NYC is taking an $18b economic hit.
You're looking at the wrong end of that horse, Kak. No negotiations can happen while your side is holding America hostage. It's too late to blame Trump. He's followed the law in every step and just given y'all enough room to negotiate in good faith. You have literally given him the one thing he couldn't get without a shutdown: authority to permanently furlough bureaucrats. Yes "mass firing." The one thing that he was restrained from doing for DOGE by law has just been conveniently removed as an obstacle, thanks to Chuck Damn Schumer and his great scheme to uh, well, who knows what he wants. He ain't getting. He's giving.
I love watching the LIV spin here.
No one cares Inga. TLDR. The effects are Democrat's fault. Your party decided illegals matter more than solving American's problems. The effects are your fault. So no one cares who you want to blame.
You would have lost that bet
…I would have protested the decision. Altparse those stories and they refer yo ‘furloughs’- by definition mostly a temporary situations and ‘potential’ firings, ie not fired, at least not yet…
To get to 60 votes the Republicans need to convince Rand Paul to pull his head out of his ass and change his vote to “aye,” plus convince four more Democrats to abandon the party line and also vote “aye.” Normally you’d look towards the 2026 re-elections to be the pressure points to work on Democrat senators, but things look kind of bleak there for the GOP. Nearly all the Democrat senators up for re-election in 2026 are in deep blue states and fear primaries more than the general election. Peters and Shaheen would be vulnerable, but they’ve already decided to retire and “pursue other interests” so they have nothing to lose (and maybe retirement sweeteners to gain) from staying with Schumer. Ossoff, down in Georgia, can be made to feel some pressure, and if the shutdown is sufficiently unpopular plus Glenn Youngkin throws his hat into the race then look for Warner to fold like a cheap suit. But that’s only two votes and we need four.
“No one cares Inga.”
Ohhhh, plenty of MAGAs will care when insurance rates double. Especially those living in poor red states.
be careful you aren’t being manipulated…
Inag, you blame Republicans for healthcare premiums rising, forgetting what the Lightbringer said about his plan to take over the health care system:
Per AI:
"Obama promised that premiums would go ** down** by $2,500 by the end of his first term. This was a campaign promise he made repeatedly when running for president.
What actually happened:
Premiums **increased by about 60%** in the first four years, with ** increases** ranging from $2,524 for individuals aged 31-40 to $12,040 for others So rather than decreasing by $2,500, they went up significantly."
******
So, no bullshit, please, about premiums increasing again, for "subsidized enrollees". It's been a scam from the start--- YOUR politi-cult's scam.
So.. Democrats are "bracing." And Republicans "pouncing?". Ah no..."lurching."
Who will ultimately do the spelunking?
I suspect Dems understand the 6% deficit. They want to look like they care but they know spending has to be cut.
In California, they implemented fiscal rules for Medicaid eligibility that are brutal and they started charging illegals for healthcare.
Republicans control all three branches of government right now. Under normal conditions, it would be easier for Democrats to cut a deal in the minority position. But given the lawlessness of this administration and the way it is handling money right now, and politically motivated prosecutions, along with Trump's threats of further retribution, Trump is providing the Democrats with an unlimited number of reasons to say "no".
I could have sworn there were some massive tax cuts that could be trimmed slightly… I am probably wrong though. Those billionaires need that extra money — they can barely afford a third yacht.
The one thing that he was restrained from doing for DOGE by law has just been conveniently removed as an obstacle
We begged you not to throw us into the briar patch.
The tragedy is government spending counts as GDP. Cut the budget and you’re the Mayor of shark city trying to save August…
@Mike (MJR Wolf) on dreams of PERMANENT federal staff reductions with a shutdown.
Think for a minute about the tortured One Big Beautiful Bill and how the establishment/center/soft Republicans resisted cuts just a few months ago. They hold the purse strings, and set the size of the future federal workforce and benefits through the laws they pass and what they choose to fund. If the government requires that job X be done, someone must be paid to do it.
If Trump (and previously DOGE) truly wanted to cut the federal budget, they'd start with military Veterans Preference and get rid of the 600,000 marginally qualified veterans who receive generous lifetime benefits/jobs after a few years of service. That's the lowest hanging fruit, but that fruit is more likely to vote Republican.
When there is a government shut down something like 60% of the government continues to operate. If we don't notice the 40% that stops operating then why do we need it at all.
So, stupid question here: What is the consensus? How far away are we from a return to 'regular order', where budgets are worked up, discussed, made into a bill, and after passing through Congress are sent to the President for signature?
And how far away are we from a balanced budget?
My local YMCA has gone to the effort of telling me that they're "standing strong" with federal employees through the shutdown, by providing them with "financial assistance." So:
The government pays my Medicare insurer, which pays the Y so I can walk on a treadmill occasionally instead of walking outside. Now the Y wants to give the money to a federal employee.
The senators for Maryland and Virginia are all Democrats. If OMB really does start mass firings, they will face a lot of pressure from the federal workers among their constituents to make it stop.
Clem 'rights come from the government' Kaine or Mark warner
The short clean CR is needed to give regular order budgeting time to wrap up. If the dems want to negotiate healthcare, just start negotiating healthcare in the regular bill. Why hold the govt hostage like a two years old in a tantrum? Their position makes no sense except for the fact that Schumer made his team livid last March and now he’s trying to regain their backing. Far too late, I imagine.
How did we get to a place where two people from NYC, which itself is speeding toward communistic rule, are able to hijack our Fed govt in order to force us to fund healthcare for the rest of the world, aka any illegal that finds themselves here? I blame the bartender.
“If Trump (and previously DOGE) truly wanted to cut the federal budget, they'd start with military Veterans Preference and get rid of the 600,000 marginally qualified veterans who receive generous lifetime benefits/jobs after a few years of service. That's the lowest hanging fruit, but that fruit is more likely to vote Republican.”
If Veteran’s benefits would get cut there would be a massive outcry, from both the right and the left. My daughter is one of those Veterans who gets her retirement pay (she served 22 years)and disability benefits. Being in Afghanistan for a year and inhaling that poison from the smoke pits got her a 100% disability. Plus she is now working at a sedentary job helping Veterans get their benefits. Her fellow Veteran employees will not be happy if their benefits get cut.
Cut some billionaires’ benefits first before touching our Veterans.
Virginia has an off-year election cycle for governor in 2025 -- the campaign is now underway. It could go for cookie-cutter blue suburban soccer mom Abigail Spam Burger, or it could go for the black female Weirdo Earle-Sears Roebuck.
Spam Burger comes across to me as bluer Liz Cheney. Sears Roebuck...ahhhhhhhhh...whatever????? Are they throwing her out as ideology-bait for blue voters: black and female checks the intersectional hierarchy for sure.
The shutdown should motivate blue voters in just one month. Politico predicted this last February. I think Weirdo is going down and a red governorship will turn blue.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/12/trump-democrats-virginia-bureacracy-00203845
The larger point is that the government is already shut down, and has been for several months, as the Trump administration initiated an assault on this system of government. Activities deemed “essential” by the president—stalking immigrants, lobbing missiles at Iran, etc.—have gone on. Still, activities purported to conflict with the president’s policies, regardless of whether they have been authorized by the United States' lawmaking body, have been stopped, interrupted only by occasional federal court rulings that doing so is illegal, which the Supreme Court subsequently dismisses.
The shutdown can certainly be used rhetorically to justify more firings, but they’re just the same firings with a different rationale, one that is no more legal or legitimate than before. Of course, “legal” and “legitimate” are loaded words given the rubber-stampers at the Supreme Court.
@Inga: If Veteran’s benefits would get cut there would be a massive outcry, from both the right and the left.
Veterans hold 600,000 federal jobs. You've nailed the real-world politics here -- Veterans Preference is a third rail. You can't have small government and gift jobs too.
Tag: Trump's 2025 budget is not a conservative budget
Smoke pits=burn pits.
whos' the weirdo, the one who wants men in women's locker rooms, but spanberger's the company girl, who a bucket of ballots saved her seat last time,
“You can't have small government and gift jobs too.”
Gift jobs? My daughter is doing essential work making the lives of those who served our country better. She served for 22 years and her lungs are affected as well as having sustained a serious knee injury while active duty that needed surgery. Who is more deserving, billionaires or our Veterans?
@narciso: I'm just playing with their names.
@Inga: Many, many, many federal jobs could be automated away. They would be automated away if not for government gift job programs. I've worked on both agency automation efforts and with federal employees as a consultant. I was sometimes literally paid to do the work of incapable federal staff, and staff with terrible hostile attitudes. They badmouthed and tried to sabotage the organization, even as it gave them a generous free ride. This was the norm for decades, and entire contracting businesses were built to hire outside people to do the work in the shadows.
Disabled people deserve support, absolutely. Still, the government should not pretend that they employ people who can do jobs they cannot do. This practice has been routine. DEI. Equity.
On Morning Schmoe, they kept repeating that illegals aren't getting government healthcare, because that's against the law.
Hm, that explains the completely peaceful West Side of Chicago - guns are against the law there, so no one's getting shot.
And the completely pristine elections - election fraud is against the law.
And zero deaths on the highway - bad driving is against the law.
More seriously, the MJ crew did feel compelled to quickly mutter that fedgov does pay for emergency room services. Well, that's the whole thing - the ER has become the family doctor for illegals. Listen to any Victor Davis Hanson show and he'll talk about his travails in the ER. CC, JSM
Blah blah blah it all flows downstream from the ACA (flawed and rammed down our throats) and the IRA (extremely flawed and oopsie "temporary" to boot) and it did not do as promised but did do as predicted. Fixes and "emergency COVID loans" didn't save it. It's a piece of crap that will never cover the people it promised to but it sure fucked up health care for the working people, the retired, the self-employed and anyone who chose to have a high-risk policy.
This clean CR is not the place to fix Obamacare. Even so we held a vote. Chuck lost. So did America.
Enigma/Inga: Yes, there are two types of federal workers. Government-specific professionals and generic workers who happen to be in fedgov. Government-specific professionals is the best term I can think of for LEOs, air controllers, nurses (I think) like Inga's daughter, intelligence operators/analysts, etc. Highly trained, sworn, held to high standards. They certainly have their share of challenges, but they're needed and nearly all are actually trying to do the work.
Generic workers who happen to be in fedgov - basically clerks - are a much more mixed bag. Lots are actively hostile and think they're owed a patronage paycheck in exchange for 1619 or their prior military service* or passing a test 30 years ago. Many are hiding their fear of having to work in a profit-oriented world (although Dilbert is not about fedgov!).
I say all this as a 25-year fed.
*I take that dig at veterans as a fellow veteran. There are lots of vets who go into fedgov with the same gung-ho attitude they had in the military. There are others who think different standards = no standards, and never really take their fedgov job seriously. I'm hoping that I was more like the first group during my tenure. But I probably acted like the second group once in a while. CC, JSM
Kak said: "However, with the benefit of hindsight, I think [Clinton's] policy legacy was . . . a disaster for both the Democratic Party and the country. . . .
"One of the interesting factoids about the Clinton history is that he and Gingrich were actually negotiating Social Security privatization just before the Lewinsky scandal broke."
Interesting comment, but had Bill and Newt succeeded with privatization, when the Dow was at like 7,500, think how much wealthier retirees would be today.
I prefer to take the Sergeant Schultz attitude towards this Kabuki slapstick comedy theatre.
“*I take that dig at veterans as a fellow veteran. There are lots of vets who go into fedgov with the same gung-ho attitude they had in the military. There are others who think different standards = no standards, and never really take their fedgov job seriously.”
My daughter was a FMF Corpsman, deployed with the Marines a few times, one time to Afghanistan. She retired as a Chief with excellent evaluations. The job she’s doing now is a specialized job, not clerking for anyone. Her medical knowledge helps her do this job, but it’s not a medical job. She’s helped veterans who were having a very tough time surviving and got them benefits they are entitled to.
If Veterans start reporting how their benefits are being cut if Trump and that Vaughan guy from Project 2025 have their way, word will get out and just WHO will be willing to join the military?
Does FAFO apply here? The Dems seem to be pushing things--seems like an opportunity for Trump and those Republicans who actually want to make cuts to--make cuts.
"The same dynamic is at play in the G.O.P., which has lurched to the right under Mr. Trump and no longer sees room for compromise."
For Democrats, compromise with the Republicans means moving left, just not as fast as the Democrats want. It NEVER means moving right, even an inch. Fuck this "compromise" shit.
Average premium increase: KFF estimates that the average premium payment for subsidized enrollees will more than double, rising by 114% from an average of $888 in 2025 to $1,904 in 2026.”
Trump’s tax cuts added four trillion to the deficit and now they are coming after your healthcare to keep the government open.
Cry me a river.
The people who actually have to pay real insurance premiums know what has happened since and as a direct result of Obamacare.
The Democrats never worried about "the deficit" as it went from $6 Trillion to $35 Trillion over the past 25 years; now when the Republicans act to keep the tax rates that have been in place over the past decade in the Democrats pretend that the Republicans are giving money away to rich people, instead of preventing the government from stealing more from taxpayers.
Bring on the shutdowns.
The longer it goes, the federal workforce shrinks accordingly.
It's what I voted for.
It sounds like Trump thinks there’s benefit in a shutdown for Republicans. - Inga
Duh.
Seriously, find another hobby. You suck at politics.
Russ Vought - Cut away, Brother!
@Jim The longer it goes, the federal workforce shrinks accordingly.
The base expectation is that the shutdown will result in piles of undone work BUT salaries paid in full. The said same nonworking employees will likely then return to work per tasking that is in the budget and do their jobs. So, they'll get 2x the pay for this work, plus a bonus vacation. Trump himself baked this into law in 2019:
https://ourpublicservice.org/fed-figures/the-federal-workforce-during-a-government-shutdown/
"Neither furloughed nor excepted employees receive pay for the duration of a shutdown, although a law passed in 2019 guarantees these employees receive back pay once a shutdown ends."
Gadfly and The American Prospect tell us that the government has already been shut down for several months.
If that is the case (I seriously doubt it) then what is the big deal? Has anybody noticed? Maybe we don't need nearly as much "government" as we have.
It seems that post-Trump the recruiting dearth has resolved itself. I understand that now there is no shortage of recruits. A not often mentioned benefit of Trump.
May we all enjoy life as much as our President does.
After the Hakeem Jeffries meme posted on this blog yesterday, Jeffries went on MSNBC to denounce it as racist.
This is how Trump responded:
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/115296085421529865
unlike his uncle Leonard 'the ice people' guy, there's not a racist bone in the President's body,
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individuals/leonard-jeffries/ this guy
Democratic Diversity, Equivocation, and Incompetence is the bigots' philosophy. #HateLovesAbortion
"Then why is Schumer imposing the shutdown?"
Schumer doesn't only fear AOC, he also fears the murdering little foot soldiers the Democrats have created. They want him to stand against any and everything Trump and the GOP does.
Those thugs will turn on him in a heartbeat and he knows it. And, I'm sure HE knows that THEY know exactly where he lives.
The said same nonworking employees will likely then return to work per tasking that is in the budget and do their jobs.
Not if there's no job for them to return to.
Democratics throw grandma off the cliff, push women to the back of the bus, throw girls under the bus, sequester the "burden" of evidence in sanctuary states, and share/shift responsibility.
Eva Marie said...
May we all enjoy life as much as our President does.
Thanks for that post. It made my day.
Chuck reaping the whirlwind?
Delicious!
@Jim at: Not if there's no job for them to return to.
See my response above at 1:33 PM above. The OBBB set spending for the next fiscal year. Jobs are tasked and funded by the moderate Republicans who refused greater cuts. The tax and deficit plan is in place.
If the Republicans had enough votes to get large cuts through Congress, sure, the jobs would go away. But they don't. So, the base expectation remains double pay and a bonus vacation.
What’s different this time around is that Trump has the bully pulpit. Plus a much faster response system. What are the Senate Dems demanding? Healthcare for illegals? Reinforced by Jeffries in a sombrero and mustache. Is it true? Who cares? Chuckie Scheamer says something, and the President, VP, etc are ready with a ridiculing response. He tries to stay on message, and the President releases an obviously doctored video of him saying something quite different and compromising. Everyone has fun, except for Scheamer and his Dems.
There is no one "starting out" a shutdown. It is a collective work (a failure in this case) by Congress.
Maxine Waters says "Healthcare for all!" -
When asked to specify if that includes illegals - she loses her mind in a fit of rage. How dare you ask Maxine Waters to clarify her statement.
So, the base expectation remains double pay and a bonus vacation.
Well, let's see. Trump's repeatedly stated he's going to RIF a bunch of people.
If I were a betting man, that's where I'd put my money.
Why does any private sector worker who doesn't depend on federal spending care? All the essential services are being done. Notice the IRS isn't shut down. The non essential workers should be RIF in large part and welfare seriously reformed. Mandatory paternity tests and no more funding for additional kids after the "entitlement" is first granted. No benefits for non-citizens. The time to cut is now.
Where are Pringle and Weingarten and all the governent union crime bossses?
They're all millionaire and billionaires...
surely they can help out rank and file six-figure, parasitic goverment leech membership out with some handouts.
Afterall, they've made the rest of us do it for years now.
"So, they'll get 2x the pay for this work, plus a bonus vacation."
This is the sort of crap that needs to end. The government is beyond broke. The money to offer these sorts of gifts does not exist.
Several comments above: I'm just the messenger. Yes the system sucks and I've been a critic for a long time.
I expect RIFs, I expect court challenges, I expect the outcome to be not too different than DOGE's many faceplants, and I expect the House and Senate to continue with a steady as she goes spending plan.
Trump has strong MINORITY support, but to get to 50%+ he needs the half-hearted support of true conservatives and the moderates. This is big tent MAGA.
Shut-Down theater gives MSNBC, CNN and other alphabet Democratic Party hack newz orgs- license to lie and manipulate.
"Shut-Down theater gives MSNBC, CNN and other alphabet Democratic Party hack newz orgs- license to lie and manipulate."
Doesn't matter, they're going to lie about *something*. This is as good a *something* as anything.
"I expect RIFs, I expect court challenges, I expect the outcome to be not too different than DOGE's many faceplants..."
Sure. Keep telling the American people how they're going to get fucked over by government bureaucrats no matter what anyone tries to do about it.
A winning message if ever I heard one.
A Government Shutdown Isn't Really a Shutdown. Most Federal Employees Are Still Working and Will Get Paid.
REASON MAG
you have a realistic alternative, they want to burn the country down, there's no humiiation they won't deny, no blood price they won't pay,
Check out what a creep... liar and clown John Harwood is.
All Hegseth asked is for high standards. Equally applied.
John Harwood (D) is a racist - straight up.
@Mason G: A winning message if ever I heard one.
What you fail to consider is that those who LOVE the system -- those who built the swamp -- inhabit the swamp. The swamp creatures have been building complexity and defenses for close to 100 years (e.g., Bureau of Investigation --> FBI; FDR's New Deal --> LBJ's Great Society --> Carter, Obama, and Biden). Clinton's triangulation and moderate cuts were an exception.
Human nature. Also see the ever growing bureaucracies of the Mandarin's, the Ottomans, etc.
Those who avoid contact with the swamp are destined to be controlled by the swamp. If you don't get into it and learn its systems, it's really tough to drain it. The world needs engaged janitors, but few want that life.
I certainly hope the OMB Director fires about 300,000 federal workers. The Dems will really have done it to their people then.
Harwood is a DEIst, a Diversitist, apparently quite rabid. An Ass, of course.
"What you fail to consider is that those who LOVE the system -- those who built the swamp -- inhabit the swamp."
Yeah, I understand that. Lots of people do.
Unfortunately, they're too busy working in order to afford the taxes they're charged that allow swamp lovers to live in the style they believe they're entitled to to do all that much about it.
But thanks for the confirmation, though. When those pink slips come through for some of those swamp creatures, anyway, I'll be the first to offer a hearty "That's a shame!" before getting back to not giving a shit.
Name something the government does well, and spending other people's money is not doing something well.
These shutdowns would not happen if people actually did not get paid and the money stopped, and no back pay. Nobody really minds a shutdown, but hopefully Trump will change that.
Government shutdowns are in all cases psychological theater. There is no increase in information from before and after the shutdown. So it is in the nature of a negotiation. The public who favor Republicans or Democrat policy wait for their powerful politicians to overpower the enemy. Let the games begin.
Name something the government does well, and spending other people's money is not doing something well.
We have a friend, a PhD wildlife biologist high up in Fish & Wildlife, who does a sample count of dead birds in one location every fall - but we're sitting here trying to figure out the purpose of it and coming up empty. Maybe this has to do with how many licenses to grant the following year? We don't even know for sure what kind of birds, except that they're hunted.
So, I guess maybe - hunting licenses? As a non-hunter, I am not at all knowledgeable - it might be one of those things like gun control where licenses only restrict the already law-abiding, the hunter-conservationists who would self-limit their take, and affect poachers not at all.
From what OMB Director Vought articulated, backed by DJT at least somewhat, non-essential employees are to furloughed, then let go. Same for non-essential boards, committees or what ever USAID was funding.
@Dave Begley: The Dems will really have done it to their people then.
No. Mitt Romney, Lisa Murkowski, and Susan Collins will drop their support for Trump and mirror Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema in how they stopped Biden's wildest actions. They'll echo John McCain's stopping of the repeal of Obamacare.
Everyone in DC is there because they love power, making decisions, being a roadblock to stuff they hate, and spending other people's money. They pay lip service to ordinary people, they all want an 'issue' to gin up support for their next election, but are owned by their egos and their donors.
Sausage makers to the last. Once in a while they'll work together for the greater good but most of the time, no.
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@Jamie on dead bird counts.
These ideas often come from an interest group or scientist (likely environmental science) focused on bird population health. My guess is that they want to know how many birds are traveling on that migration route every season, and whether the deaths are natural or caused by pesticides, lead poisoning, or other toxins. Lead poisoning from hunting IS AN ISSUE with birds (and more animals too) -- birds eat lead pellets, grind them in their gizzards, and die.
https://cwhl.vet.cornell.edu/disease/lead-toxicosis#collapse23
“KFF estimates that the average premium payment for subsidized enrollees will more than double, rising by 114% from an average of $888 in 2025 to $1,904 in 2026.”
This calls to mind Bastiat’s “things seen and not seen.” Those people will pay higher premiums, the rest of us will no longer have to pay for their insurance with our taxes. People like Inga act like the funding for those subsidies is manna from heaven. No, it comes out of taxpayers’ pockets.
"Trump suggests he could make 'irreversible' cuts if the government shuts down."
As a great Democrat wisely advised, never let a crisis go to waste!
And maybe when people actually have to pay for their own insurance, they might start to look into why it’s gotten so expensive. For example, all the coverage mandates built into the ACA, such as transgender surgeries.
"non-essential employees are to furloughed, then let go."
The national debt is over $37 trillion. The government has no business spending even a penny on anything that is non-essential.
"So, they'll get 2x the pay for this work, plus a bonus vacation."
For how long? Until the shutdown ends? Do they have their jobs forever? What if the budget that resolves the shutdown eliminates their jobs?
You have to start somewhere.
HEH
Among the actually useful things that government has traditionally done is the collection and publication of accurate information about the country. These statistics are the raw material for all kinds of useful "value added" work. The Fish and Wildlife guy counting dead birds was probably doing something related to getting a handle on the fluctuations of bird populations over the years. I've known a few people who did work like this--collecting seal poop to compare the amount of mercury from year to year; trapping mice and voles to survey parasite populations.
It's important work, it doesn't pay particularly well but isn't particularly difficult in terms of hours and days worked, and you get a solid pension and good healthcare. The two people I know are not exactly creative geniuses, but they're diligent and meticulous, and it's good to have people like that doing work that does benefit everyone: it's better to have an accurate picture of your country than an inaccurate one, or not picture at all.
But starting in 2012 even this kind of seemingly non-political work on nature--and the similar information gathering on commerce, transportation, etc.--has seemingly been corrupted. "Orders" come from on high from people who are known to have authority but for unknown* reasons aren't using their .gov address, telling workers to change the procedures and protocols that have been in use since they were developed in the '50s and '60. Although these are framed as "improvements," those who care to look can see that they're all aimed at emphasizing Climate Change for the physical-world stuff and supporting various familiar narratives for the social stuff.
It all apparently got much worse during and after Covid. What I've been told is that front-line people used to be able to push back by invoking the Agency's or Department's mission, but after 2020 there were explicit threats of demotion or delayed promotion, transfer to undesirable locations, cancellation of work-from-home arrangements that were approved for everyone else, and rejection of normally rubber-stamped vacation days/times for people not enthusiastic enough: pretty much exactly what we saw in media and academia.
"Almost all the people who really knew what they were doing retired. There's a small group in their late 50s and early 60s who are barely keeping things running, and they're all burned out and plan on taking early retirement. No one under 40 knows how to do anything and they don't want to learn."
I'm a little worried about the loss of this kind of information and the expertise required to collect it: these kinds of jobs HAVE to be on the chopping block in any significant RIF that occurs as a result of the shutdown. But if what my friend says is true, the data is already corrupted for political and ideological reasons, and it is likely to get corrupted by incompetence as well in the next few years.
I’m a fan of the National Forests, and I think the US Forest Service does a good job managing them on a rather modest budget of $2 billion per year. I lived in Texas where essentially all the land is private, and I prefer having large swathes of land that is public. The forests have a lot of users, from hikers and hunters to ranchers and loggers, and it is a challenging and thankless task to juggle all their competing needs.
“
I’m a fan of the National Forests, and I think the US Forest Service does a good job managing them on a rather modest budget of $2 billion per year. I lived in Texas where essentially all the land is private, and I prefer having large swathes of land that is public. The forests have a lot of users, from hikers and hunters to ranchers and loggers, and it is a challenging and thankless task to juggle all their competing needs.”
Then you should support the Republicans. The Democrats, starting with Clinton, and accelerating with Obama, gutted the mixed use of National Forests, under pressure from urban Democrats (who often live thousands of miles from the affected forests) . Our town in NW MT, there used to be 3-4 lumber companies. There has been just one since Obama came into Office because they shut down most timber (and mining) in the National Forests. The results, unsurprisingly to those living in and by those forests, have been devastating. Massive wildfires almost every year have become the norm, because they can’t clear the forests by selling the timber. And now, the bulk of the USFS budget is now for fire fighting (and is exempt from this government shutdown). There is, essentially, no road maintenance, no campground maintenance, our satellite office was shutdown a couple years ago, and their remaining customer staff gutted.
You can tell Rich is a public sector employee and his rice bowl is being threatened. Polish up your LinkedIn account, Rich.
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