Althouse: "The Trump administration’s push earlier this year to arrest and deport international students for their pro-Palestinian activism was illegal, a federal judge ruled Tuesday..."

30 సెప్టెంబర్, 2025

"The Trump administration’s push earlier this year to arrest and deport international students for their pro-Palestinian activism was illegal, a federal judge ruled Tuesday..."

"... calling the crackdown a 'truly scandalous and unconstitutional suppression of free speech.' In a sweeping rebuke, U.S. District Judge William Young in Boston said that the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department sought to target non-citizens 'for speaking out' with the 'goal of tamping down pro-Palestinian student protests and terrorizing similarly situated' students. Young [a Reagan appointee] decried the administration’s conduct in striking terms, quoting President Ronald Reagan’s declaration that freedom must 'be fought for and defended constantly by each generation.”

From "Trump administration illegally targeted pro-Palestinian protesters, judge rules/The efforts to detain and deport noncitizen activists earlier this year represented an unconstitutional infringement on the First Amendment, the ruling says" (WaPo)(gift link).

150 కామెంట్‌లు:

n.n చెప్పారు...: Separation of citizen and temporary resident rights.; 30-09-25 1:10 PM
rehajm చెప్పారు...: Reagan appointee = too old to suffer any consequences of being a Hawaiian judge...; 30-09-25 1:10 PM
Sebastian చెప్పారు...: "unconstitutional suppression of free speech" Where does the Constitution grant foreigners who have been admitted as guests freedom of speech in the US?; 30-09-25 1:11 PM
Kevin చెప్పారు...: Yes, all those poor pro-Palestinians -- off to the side, peacefully and politely speaking their minds, letting everyone else go about their business with a smile and a wave.

Can you say "legal straw man"?; 30-09-25 1:12 PM
Biff చెప్పారు...: If it's for "speaking out", then the judge is correct. If it's for insurrection-y behavior, well, we know what to do about that, don't we?; 30-09-25 1:14 PM
rehajm చెప్పారు...: sought to target non-citizens 'for speaking out' with the 'goal of tamping down pro-Palestinian student protests and terrorizing similarly situated' students.

I saw a different movie, the one where the campus pro-Palestinian astroturf organizations were intimidating/threatening jewish students...; 30-09-25 1:19 PM
Aggie చెప్పారు...: Marco Rubio has laid out these cases with admirable clarity I think. And it's the same for virtually every country on the face of the planet, except that the US is probably the most open and uncritical of any. I've worked and lived in about a dozen different countries around the world, held work visas in all of them. If you're a foreigner, present on a visa, you are a guest. Behave accordingly, or be sent away is the implicit understanding. I doubt this will stand.; 30-09-25 1:20 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) చెప్పారు...: Whatever. We can still keep them out for supporting or affiliating with terrorists, if they have. (Most "foreign" students from Qatar etc. have.); 30-09-25 1:21 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: "The Trump administration’s push earlier this year to arrest and deport international students for their pro-Palestinian activism was illegal, a federal judge ruled Tuesday..."
"... calling the crackdown a 'truly scandalous and unconstitutional suppression of free speech.'

Just another federal judge making a ruling that is obviously stupid.

People have no First Amendment right to come to the country on a Visa and say shit. They are granted rights by us.

Most of these students support a fascist Hamas Government. It is just like Democrats who support kicking republicans off social media. People that use free speech to support Hamas want to take freedom of speech from everyone else.

The First Amendment is a contract. You aren't born with this right. People fight and die for you to have it.

People don't fight and die so democrats and hamas supporters can use our freedoms to take freedom from other people.; 30-09-25 1:22 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) చెప్పారు...: It truly is a civil rights issue, just not the one the judge fingered.; 30-09-25 1:22 PM
rehajm చెప్పారు...: ...do they really want judges to be this political? Don't they see how this will BTITA?; 30-09-25 1:30 PM
ronetc చెప్పారు...: Good God, a judge does not understand non-citizens do not have full constitutional rights?: "unconstitutional suppression of free speech." I believe non-citizens only have due process rights regarding their resident or expulsion issues, such as right to due process, a fair hearing, the right to remain silent, and the right to an attorney.; 30-09-25 1:40 PM
Hassayamper చెప్పారు...: This will certainly not survive appeals. Visas to visit our country as a guest aren’t a constitutional right. If these peoples’ words had been known to our overseas consular officers before they came here, the visas would never have been issued, and it is within the purview of the President, through the Secretary of State, to revoke them at his discretion.; 30-09-25 1:41 PM
MountainMan చెప్పారు...: I asked Grok about this issue. There are conditions under which aliens on student visas can be deported, such as unauthorized work or criminal behavior. But also listed were the following:

Engaging in Activities Inconsistent with Visa Purpose: Using a student visa for purposes other than studying (e.g., primarily working or engaging in non-educational activities) violates the visa’s intent and can lead to removal proceedings.

Terrorism or National Security Concerns: Any involvement in activities deemed a threat to national security, including associations with certain groups or behaviors flagged by authorities, can result in immediate deportation.; 30-09-25 1:47 PM
Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) చెప్పారు...: Screw that shit -- those people are here as our guests. Behave yourselves according to OUR standards or be sent home.; 30-09-25 1:49 PM
Peachypeachy చెప్పారు...: What a crock. These people were threatening and terrorizing other students and Jewish students.; 30-09-25 1:51 PM
Peachypeachy చెప్పారు...: Leftist judges are not just.; 30-09-25 1:52 PM
Peachypeachy చెప్పారు...: Leftist judges are not just.; 30-09-25 1:52 PM
Inga చెప్పారు...: So Trump is a free speech hypocrite, dinner at 6.

I support rightists and Trump having free access to all social media. It’s good to know what they are thinking. Forewarned is forearmed.; 30-09-25 1:53 PM
mccullough చెప్పారు...: This is why we have appellate courts. Trespassing, vandalism, and threats aren’t protected by the First Amendment.; 30-09-25 1:55 PM
Mary Beth చెప్పారు...: Then we should stop revoking visas of people who are protesting and only revoke those who are not doing what they claimed they needed the visas for. I remember reading about one "student" who hadn't attended classes in years.; 30-09-25 1:58 PM
Rabel చెప్పారు...: "He ignores everything . . .

This is indubitably true. The Constitution, our civil
laws, regulations, mores, customs, practices, courtesies -- all
of it; the President simply ignores it all when he takes it into
his head to act."

That's from the ruling. There's more but it's simply TDS writ large by a Federal Judge.; 30-09-25 2:03 PM
Rabel చెప్పారు...: His bizarre anti-Trump rant begins on page 148.

Rachel Maddow could have written it.; 30-09-25 2:07 PM
Matt చెప్పారు...: The issue is if the government is telling foreign students that they do not have free speech protections under the First Amendment then who gets to decide what speech is in violation? And does that not change with each new administration? I'm looking at the big picture and long term issues. I do not think America is well served if the only people who have free speech are American born citizens.; 30-09-25 2:09 PM
Dave Begley చెప్పారు...: Harvard undergrad and Harvard Law.; 30-09-25 2:15 PM
rhhardin చెప్పారు...: Palestine counts as an enemy in time of war, now that we no longer have wars. Go home and protest all you want.; 30-09-25 2:17 PM
James K చెప్పారు...: "I do not think America is well served if the only people who have free speech are American born citizens."

Straw man. Immigrant citizens have the same rights as American-born citizens. As others have said, those here on temporary visas do not. Whether they have the same First Amendment rights as citizens is, I suppose, an open question. But even citizens don't have the right to use speech to threaten or to incite violence.; 30-09-25 2:27 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Inga said...

So Trump is a free speech hypocrite, dinner at 6.

I support rightists and Trump having free access to all social media. It’s good to know what they are thinking. Forewarned is forearmed.

There is no free speech right to a Visa. You are stupid if you think so.

If you support kicking conservatives off social media and you push for abridging the 2nd amendment the 1st amendment shouldn't protect you.

There is also no free speech right to push for taking other people's freedoms away.; 30-09-25 2:28 PM
lonejustice చెప్పారు...: I'm thankful every day that we have a government and Constitution of checks and balances.; 30-09-25 2:40 PM
Yinzer చెప్పారు...: I guess we will have another visit to the supreme court, hopefully with another 6-3 decision in favor of Trump.; 30-09-25 2:42 PM
Jupiter చెప్పారు...: It may well be true, as Judge Young maintains, that non-citizens have the same rights to freedom of speech as citizens do. The First Amendment is a restriction upon Congress, not a grant of rights to any specific persons. But non-citizens do not have the same right to being present in the US as citizens do, which would seem to be the question raised by this case.; 30-09-25 2:46 PM
Beasts of England చెప్పారు...: ’There's more but it's simply TDS writ large by a Federal Judge.’

I hate when judges crib from the Daily Kos.; 30-09-25 2:52 PM
Leland చెప్పారు...: Agree with Jupiter @2:46p. The key word is "international". Another key word is "terrorizing".; 30-09-25 2:57 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Jupiter said...

It may well be true, as Judge Young maintains, that non-citizens have the same rights to freedom of speech as citizens do. The First Amendment is a restriction upon Congress, not a grant of rights to any specific persons.

This restriction also applies to State Legislatures.

But non-citizens do not have the same right to being present in the US as citizens do, which would seem to be the question raised by this case.

This should be obvious to anyone above 80 IQ. Congress gave the Executive the rules by which it could grant Visa's to people to visit the US for various reasons.

If Congress wanted to it could theoretically extend First Amendment rights to people who have Visas. But our current Visa law prohibits supporting terrorism.

No matter how you look at it this judge is just a fucking idiot no matter how evil they are and the people who think this is a good ruling are just stupid.; 30-09-25 2:59 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Matt said...

The issue is if the government is telling foreign students that they do not have free speech protections under the First Amendment then who gets to decide what speech is in violation? And does that not change with each new administration? I'm looking at the big picture and long term issues. I do not think America is well served if the only people who have free speech are American born citizens.

Then get Congress to pass changes to the Visa law.

The court does not have the constitutional power to change Visa laws.

Supporting a Judge to rule like this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the first 3 articles in the Constitution. You are just illiterate at that point.

If you think this is how to change Visa law you are so stupid you shouldn't be allowed to vote.; 30-09-25 3:03 PM
Big Mike చెప్పారు...: As though we don’t have enough homegrown anti-semites that we need to keep around anti-semites we’ve accidentally imported?; 30-09-25 3:09 PM
Matt చెప్పారు...: James K
But even citizens don't have the right to use speech to threaten or to incite violence.

I agree about speech used to threaten or incite. But a number of the cases do not involve speech that threatens violence. One notable case was Rümeysa Öztürk, a Turkish doctoral student at Tufts University, who co-wrote [with 3 others] an article asking for Tufts to allow protests of the Gaza war on campus and to divest from companies with ties to Israel. She was apprehended by 6 plain clothed Homeland agents and detained for 45 days. No evidence has been presented that she did anything other than co-write an op-ed and the Trump Admin has not charged her with any crime. She's out of detention now but awaits the courts.; 30-09-25 3:12 PM
Political Junkie చెప్పారు...: This decision angers me. Fuck the judge.
Reminds me of when the USSC gave rights to the Taliban and enemy combatants. We are fucked no matter what.; 30-09-25 3:16 PM
Tina Trent చెప్పారు...: Disingenuous ruling. The vast majority were not protests but occupation of publicspaces, harassment, and threats. All worthy of action by the DOE to deport foreign students. Read their guidelines.; 30-09-25 3:18 PM
minnesota farm guy చెప్పారు...: Foreign citizens do not acquire the rights of citizens just by being present. I suspect this judge will, like his Boston buddy Allison Burroughs, be reversed post haste.; 30-09-25 3:22 PM
PB చెప్పారు...: Soon to be yet another win at the Supreme Court, if not sooner.; 30-09-25 3:28 PM
Lazarus చెప్పారు...: That wasn't the administration's best move -- or a very important one.; 30-09-25 3:28 PM
Eva Marie చెప్పారు...: @Rabel: regarding your link, what is that hand written at the top?; 30-09-25 3:28 PM
William చెప్పారు...: How about this for a simple litmus test?

Let's say that a person from Turkey or Pakistan (for example) is here on a visa and protests for a politically charged and fringe cause on public property (e.g., the University of Florida campus).

Reverse the situation. What would happen to an American in Turkey or Pakistan if he/she did the same thing? You know … and I know … that the American would get squashed like a bug.

Yet the people from Turkey (or Pakistan) can come to the United States and do (or say) virtually anything they want?

Come on, man!; 30-09-25 3:29 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Big Mike said...

As though we don’t have enough homegrown anti-semites that we need to keep around anti-semites we’ve accidentally imported?

Yes.

But specifically they were granted permission to travel here and study at our Universities.

They were not granted permission to come here and yell about Hamas or to chase Jews out of classrooms.; 30-09-25 3:31 PM
Beasts of England చెప్పారు...: ’I do not think America is well served if the only people who have free speech are American born citizens.’

Which other constitutional rights should foreign visitors enjoy? Gun ownership? If not, why not?; 30-09-25 3:40 PM
Not Illinois Resident చెప్పారు...: What constitutional rights does a visa-bearing foreign student have while committing crimes, civil disobedience, and disregard for civil rights of American citizens???; 30-09-25 3:43 PM
Matt చెప్పారు...: Achilles

The question is does this case revolve around free speech [the First Amendment] per se or does it revolve around what the Secretary of State is allowed to do with foreign visa holders? If it is the later then, yes, Congress would need to address that. But this judge has concluded that the First Amendment trumps the SoS authority when the issue is free speech to visa holders on American soil.

He writes:
This case...squarely presents the issue whether non-citizens lawfully present here in United States actually have the same free speech rights as the rest of us. The Court answers this Constitutional question unequivocally “yes, they do.” “No law” means “no law.”

"No law" refers to the First Amendment - as in Congress shall make no law... prohibiting speech."

I'm sure other judges and courts have a different opinion - although I would think they would make the case contingent on the authority of the SoS and Homeland Security and not on free speech. I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong opinion on the matter. I am pointing out that if Visa holders cannot have free speech then if free speech is the issue we should determine what kind of speech is limited and to whom do these limits apply. I see future problems when Democrats take charge again.; 30-09-25 3:48 PM
Not Illinois Resident చెప్పారు...: US District Judge Young believes foreign students have higher legal status, more legal protections, than the citizen students they were harassing. He probably voted for Ms Kamala Harris too.; 30-09-25 3:48 PM
Steve చెప్పారు...: At this point nothing a trial court rules even matters. The left is forum shopping and apparently rigging the "random" selection of the trial judge. Even my right wing friends have stopped worrying about the first decision. My left wing friends are celebrating it and counting the win, then have lost interest when the decision is overruled.; 30-09-25 3:56 PM
Eva Marie చెప్పారు...: As a matter of courtesy, when you are in a foreign country stay out of political matters and do whatever it is you’ve entered the country to do. Is that to much to ask?; 30-09-25 4:00 PM
Eva Marie చెప్పారు...: Also learn how to spell. Too instead of to; 30-09-25 4:02 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Matt said...

Achilles

The question is does this case revolve around free speech [the First Amendment] per se or does it revolve around what the Secretary of State is allowed to do with foreign visa holders? If it is the later then, yes, Congress would need to address that. But this judge has concluded that the First Amendment trumps the SoS authority when the issue is free speech to visa holders on American soil.

Then the judge is a fucking idiot.

If you support the judge then you are a fucking idiot.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Nothing in there about revoking or granting Visa's. I know that is a tough one for idiots on the left to get.

Now if you want to strike down the laws that give the SoS authority to create and execute Visas and send all Visa holders home because the laws regarding Visa's restrict you from supporting terrorism and inciting violence then you have a possible case.

But then you need to make the case that the First amendment allows you to say anything you want including inciting violence.

But there is obviously no first amendment right to chase Jews out of college classes so I doubt your case has much of a chance.; 30-09-25 4:07 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Matt said...

I'm sure other judges and courts have a different opinion - although I would think they would make the case contingent on the authority of the SoS and Homeland Security and not on free speech. I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong opinion on the matter. I am pointing out that if Visa holders cannot have free speech then if free speech is the issue we should determine what kind of speech is limited and to whom do these limits apply. I see future problems when Democrats take charge again.

The Democrats have already used the government and largest corporations to censor their political opponents. They all supported kicking Trump off social media. They do not even play pretense to supporting the first amendment.

Stop pretending "when Democrats take charge again" is some sort of argument. They have explicitly abandoned the first amendment already and there is no point to extending them any good faith.; 30-09-25 4:12 PM
Mason G చెప్పారు...: "Stop pretending "when Democrats take charge again" is some sort of argument. They have explicitly abandoned the first amendment already..."

Yep. This "You'll be sorry when the Democrats get back in power and do all the terrible things Trump is doing" nonsense is just that- nonsense.

The Democrats *were* in power and they already did those things. They'll do it again? No shit, Sherlock.; 30-09-25 4:27 PM
Craig Mc చెప్పారు...: Replace "federal judge" with "some guy". Repeat.; 30-09-25 4:38 PM
Mark చెప్పారు...: So when Jordan Peterson or JK Rowling visits under the next President, they could be arrested by plainclothes officers and sent to a Central American jail for thinking the First Amendment applies to them?

Seems like what is being argued for here.; 30-09-25 4:39 PM
lonejustice చెప్పారు...: When Trump starts losing the support of Reagan appointed Federal Judges, this will not end up well for Trump. There is a line of Free Speech in the sand, and Trump has decided to cross that line in favor of censorship based on one's political speech, however much we may disagree with it. I hope Trump loses, all the way to the Supreme Court.; 30-09-25 4:40 PM
lonejustice చెప్పారు...: I seldom read all the comments on Althouse Blog, although I do read all of the Professor's posts. But today I read them, and it is clear that the commentators (not Althouse) believe that anyone who disagrees with Trump's agenda should either be deported or shot. Welcome to the New World Order. Get used to it.; 30-09-25 5:00 PM
Leland చెప్పారు...: today I read them

No you didn’t.; 30-09-25 5:06 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Mark said...

So when Jordan Peterson or JK Rowling visits under the next President, they could be arrested by plainclothes officers and sent to a Central American jail for thinking the First Amendment applies to them?

Seems like what is being argued for here.

That is because you are stupid and dishonest and you can only argue against straw men.

If Jordan Peterson or JK Rowling come here and they chase Jews out of classrooms and beat up janitors while chanting "From the River to the Sea" to celebrate and wish for the extermination of all Jews in Israel then they can have their Visas revoked.; 30-09-25 5:08 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: in the case of mahmoud khalil who will be deported to Syria or Algeria, he was literally yelling kill the Jews, Mawdawi was not that obvious, but he was clearly violating the terms of his visa,; 30-09-25 5:09 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: lonejustice said...

I seldom read all the comments on Althouse Blog, although I do read all of the Professor's posts. But today I read them, and it is clear that the commentators (not Althouse) believe that anyone who disagrees with Trump's agenda should either be deported or shot. Welcome to the New World Order. Get used to it.

That is because you are stupid.

You should learn what words mean so you don't look like an idiot.; 30-09-25 5:11 PM
Matt చెప్పారు...: Achilles

They all supported kicking Trump off social media.

True, most Democrats did - and I disagreed with those Democrats. I would argue that detaining students for two or more months for speech violations is a lot more harsh than Trump or other conservatives being kicked off of some social media sites. Trump had no problem continuing to get his message out - it could be argued that it helped him win the last election. My issue is specific to student visa holders and the penalties they face due to limits of speech when they have not been formally charged with a crime. Neither Mahmoud Khalil or Rümeysa Öztürk [cited in the case] were charged with crimes. This could open the door to future Democratic admins detaining foreign students who espouse far right beliefs. I would not agree with that either. That is my main point.; 30-09-25 5:15 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: Free Speech to leftists = a guest on a Visa terrorizing Jews.; 30-09-25 5:21 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: ఈ కామెంట్‌ను రచయిత తీసివేశారు.; 30-09-25 5:23 PM
lonejustice చెప్పారు...: Leland didn't even bother to read the newspaper report. That's my biggest complaint about the commentators here on Althouse Blog, and it's not limited to this blog, but to most Trump supporting blogs. No one here ever bothers to read the original source that Althouse references. They just want to jerk off to their own personal political opinions supporting Trump. Maybe there should be a Penthouse Forum for Trump Supporters so they can climax to their Trump fantasies. I know, that is not something you want to think about. It's gross.; 30-09-25 5:23 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: 30-09-25 5:23 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: ఈ కామెంట్‌ను రచయిత తీసివేశారు.; 30-09-25 5:23 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: Sorry about that. I think I fixed it.; 30-09-25 5:23 PM
Gospace చెప్పారు...: Matt said...
.. I do not think America is well served if the only people who have free speech are American born citizens.

Be real. All those students have absolute free speech rights. Back in their home country, not here. But- only if they're willing to fight and die for them- since no other country recognizes the God given rights that all people have.; 30-09-25 5:24 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: oh yes the violins for Ozturk, she can go back and be a cheerleader for Erdogan,; 30-09-25 5:24 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: a judge whose clerk can't seem to find the relevant law, there's creative writing and then there are genuine opinions, we know the difference,; 30-09-25 5:27 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Matt said...

Achilles

They all supported kicking Trump off social media.

True, most Democrats did - and I disagreed with those Democrats. I would argue that detaining students for two or more months for speech violations is a lot more harsh than Trump or other conservatives being kicked off of some social media sites.

They should have just gone home then.; 30-09-25 5:29 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: My issue is specific to student visa holders and the penalties they face due to limits of speech when they have not been formally charged with a crime. Neither Mahmoud Khalil or Rümeysa Öztürk [cited in the case] were charged with crimes. This could open the door to future Democratic admins detaining foreign students who espouse far right beliefs. I would not agree with that either. That is my main point.

Cool story. They can go home.

Anyone who says "From the river to the sea." adds nothing to our country. I see no point in inviting them to our country.; 30-09-25 5:32 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: It's a gift link - but you are required to give Wapo your e-mail.
I'm not going to dot hat.; 30-09-25 5:34 PM
lonejustice చెప్పారు...: I've been reading Althouse Blog for almost 20 years, clear back when I was a practicing lawyer and followed her not only for her Constitutional Law insights, but also her insights on politics and current culture. It dismays me that the commentators here, who used to be quite diverse (in the good sense of the word) and interesting, have, for the most part, degenerated into a circle jerk of Trump supporters. It didn't use to be like this.; 30-09-25 5:35 PM
Beasts of England చెప్పారు...: ’…but you are required to give Wapo your e-mail.’

And unfortunately, fuckwapo@gmail.com is already taken.; 30-09-25 5:36 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: Lonejustice - perhaps it's because the democrat party and its apparatchiks in their MSM became a lying corrupt shit show?; 30-09-25 5:39 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: Beasts - I tried that one. ack.; 30-09-25 5:39 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: lonejustice said...

I've been reading Althouse Blog for almost 20 years, clear back when I was a practicing lawyer and followed her not only for her Constitutional Law insights, but also her insights on politics and current culture. It dismays me that the commentators here, who used to be quite diverse (in the good sense of the word) and interesting, have, for the most part, degenerated into a circle jerk of Trump supporters. It didn't use to be like this.

That is a lot of words to just say "waaaahhh I don't have any arguments wahhhh."; 30-09-25 5:42 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: Pro-Hamas terror supporters and agitators should not be allowed to stay if they reveal who they are thru violence, intimidation and threats.

Violence, intimidation and threats +lies = juicy free speech for depraved leftists.

Again - as Tina stated above:
"Disingenuous ruling. The vast majority were not protests but occupation of public spaces, harassment, and threats. All worthy of action by the DOE to deport foreign students. Read their guidelines."; 30-09-25 5:42 PM
Jamie చెప్పారు...: There is a line of Free Speech in the sand, and Trump has decided to cross that line.

Only just now? I have been given to understand that he shredded the Constitution way back in 2017.

[shrug] In this case, I'll wait on the appeal. I also had heard that at least Khalil didn't just exercise speech but instead was physically intimidating Jewish students, which is a different ball game; I don't know about Ozturk.; 30-09-25 5:44 PM
Beasts of England చెప్పారు...: ’Beasts - I tried that one. ack.’

lol; 30-09-25 5:44 PM
Jamie చెప్పారు...: quite diverse (in the good sense of the word)

What's the bad sense of the word?; 30-09-25 5:45 PM
Mark చెప్పారు...: Achilles, to trans people thats what they feel Rowling is saying.

You are revoking visas because of how people feel when they hear a slogan. You railed against those UK cops, but yet mimic their attitude toward 'crimes of speech'; 30-09-25 5:48 PM
Ampersand చెప్పారు...: They should issue visas to fewer people.; 30-09-25 5:54 PM
loudogblog చెప్పారు...: There is a difference between legal activism and illegal violence.; 30-09-25 5:57 PM
Mason G చెప్పారు...: Visitors to this country should refrain from engaging in US politics.; 30-09-25 6:02 PM
gilbar చెప్పారు...: Serious Question:
how far, did YOU have to get into this; before you said:
District Judge
??
22 words?; 30-09-25 6:14 PM
Inga చెప్పారు...: “It dismays me that the commentators here, who used to be quite diverse (in the good sense of the word) and interesting, have, for the most part, degenerated into a circle jerk of Trump supporters. It didn't use to be like this.”

It shocked me at first, but now it’s expected by me. The hypocrisy when it comes to the First Amendment is astounding. From some commenters being all aboard the retribution train of punitive censorship to commenters who say certain Americans with political opinions they don’t share no longer have Constitutional rights and protections. Trump opened the door to this autocratic version of democracy until the resemblance to a democracy is completely lost.

And if rightists don’t like that sort of criticism of the president, too bad. Free speech goes both ways, the way you like and the way you don’t like. People on the left in the US are having war declared on their cities by a president who calls them the enemy from within, US troops are being used against them. Trump proclaimed today that the cities can be used as “testing ground” for some future war.; 30-09-25 6:16 PM
Leland చెప్పారు...: Leland didn't even bother to read the newspaper report. That's my biggest complaint about the commentators here on Althouse Blog, and it's not limited to this blog, but to most Trump supporting blogs. No one here ever bothers to read the original source that Althouse references.

The original source is the ruling, not WaPo. I would expect a lawyer to know the difference, but you don’t. As you have lied about other things, I have no doubt you lie about being a lawyer too.

We don’t care about the criticism of the President. We care about the lies you state. You said commenters here think people that disagree with you disagree with Trump should be shot. That is a lie. Nobody has called for it, and you write that after Trump supporters have been shot. After two assassination attempts on Trump.

It is one thing to lie, even to lie about being a lawyer. But it is not “criticism” to claim with a lie that others are murderous. It is libel. Lawyers know this, and therefore careful with their words. You are not careful. You are explicitly careless.; 30-09-25 6:30 PM
Aggie చెప్పారు...: Quite entertaining, all the progressive here having the vapors as if this is a First Amendment issue, as if visas are not a highly regulated area of immigration law.

I'm not a lawyer or legal expert. But grouping visitors that are here on a visa, as if they enjoy all of the trappings of citizenship, and are unencumbered by any of the visa's regulatory requirements that controls their presence here, is fanciful to say the least. Oh the hyperbole ! The best argument to be mustered is to bemoan the conservative commentary, lo how far the blog has fallen. Not a single constructive argument to be found from these lazy progressive commenters. Let's see some honest arguments. Why should a young person that has overstayed their student visa, made no effort to make it right, and hasn't attended a class in a year, be allowed to stay and protest Israel on a private campus, creating a nuisance - when a conservative citizen protestor would be driven off and threatened with trespassing charges?; 30-09-25 6:30 PM
William50 చెప్పారు...: MountainMan said...

I asked Grok about this issue. There are conditions under which aliens on student visas can be deported, such as unauthorized work or criminal behavior. But also listed were the following:

Engaging in Activities Inconsistent with Visa Purpose: Using a student visa for purposes other than studying (e.g., primarily working or engaging in non-educational activities) violates the visa’s intent and can lead to removal proceedings.

Terrorism or National Security Concerns: Any involvement in activities deemed a threat to national security, including associations with certain groups or behaviors flagged by authorities, can result in immediate deportation.

9/30/25, 1:47 PM

---------------------------------

I think that pretty much covers it. What part of that don't people here understand?; 30-09-25 6:32 PM
Clyde చెప్పారు...: I'm sure that this will be appealed and reversed like so many other mistaken rulings by left-wing judges.; 30-09-25 6:34 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: its a violence and intimidation thing, they want to turn an american campus into bir zeit, or gaza university, and with the campus administration they got half way, in a whole host of campuses,; 30-09-25 6:37 PM
Mason G చెప్పారు...: "It dismays me that the commentators here, who used to be quite diverse (in the good sense of the word) and interesting, have, for the most part, degenerated into a circle jerk of Trump supporters. It didn't use to be like this."

Seems like it would be shooting fish in a barrel to debate people like that. I mean- if there were actually any good arguments that could be used and posters who were able to present them in a logical fashion.

Right?; 30-09-25 6:37 PM
Peachy చెప్పారు...: The lie-buyer left are here to crap on Trump. Nothing else.
How cultist.; 30-09-25 6:40 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: not merely, they indulge their tolerance of Hamas, which is at the crux of this argument or Fatah or the Popular Front, the details really don't matter,; 30-09-25 6:45 PM
Quaestor చెప్పారు...: So Inga is a free speech ignoramus, cocktails at 9.; 30-09-25 6:55 PM
Iman చెప్పారు...: lonejustice is the phoniest of pricks.; 30-09-25 6:55 PM
Iman చెప్పారు...: “Visitors to this country should refrain from engaging in US politics.”

Yes! To do otherwise is rude, opportunistic and worthy of getting one’s visiting ass drop kicked out of the country.; 30-09-25 6:59 PM
narciso చెప్పారు...: it isn't politics, its the propaganda of the deed, direct action,; 30-09-25 7:12 PM
DINKY DAU 45 చెప్పారు...: I have only been here for awhile ,year two? I always presumed it was just a bastion of right wing MAGAS so far up trumps insides that is just what it is. At times its like it is held hostage to certain posters that get on a rant and maybe having 30/40% of a comment article. Seems a lot of fighting, name calling, foul language and hate but that always signals the empty barrel syndrome , that's the world today. You know ,you don't like it lump it! Oh well takes all kinds to make the world spin. I usually check in everyday 'laugh that people are in so deep. I learned way back in program to always adhere to RULE 62 and those in violation are just empty barrels(you know make the most noise) The North and the South never really ended it just changed colors and name. I read one post where a person ,supposedly one works in law,so bent to one side that they wished the opponent would die a wicked and painful death and then claimed "christianity" ,what else could you say but WTF and always beaucoup DINKY DAU. Keep them cards and letters coming! :); 30-09-25 7:15 PM
Jim at చెప్పారు...: I'm thankful every day that we have a government and Constitution of checks and balances.

Bullshit. You're thankful you have thugs in black robes making ignorant decisions because it thwarts the political aims of people you hate.; 30-09-25 7:16 PM
Jim at చెప్పారు...: It's amusing to watch some people twist Trump's words into some sort of imaginary, pending attack ... yet had no trouble with Biden giving a primetime address calling out half the nation as a threat. And then acting on it.; 30-09-25 7:26 PM
Mark చెప్పారు...: Aggie asks for 'honest debate' then suggests a straw man to discuss.

How about a student who hasn't overstayed anything and is doing fine academically? Should their spèech cause a revocation of their visa or ability to stay here?

What line of speech do you think merits expulsion Aggie, given you believe expulsion ks a good thing to do? What about people who are just tourists, have no special status and are caught on video?

I need to revisit that thread about the UK cops recently, as we are getting quite the opposing take here.; 30-09-25 7:29 PM
n.n చెప్పారు...: The bad sense is Diversity (i.e. color judgment, class bigotry) that is an umbrella philosophy for class-disordered ideologies (e.g. racism) or bloc ideologies. DEIsm is the systemic, institutional belief and practice of Diversity.

The good sense is diversity of individuals, minority of one. A generalization of judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.; 30-09-25 7:29 PM
Aggie చెప్పారు...: If the subject is here on a student visa, then this visa is tied to their attendance in school? If their primary purpose is education, why are they attending protests and engaging in political activities? They are not part of the political environment - they do not vote - correct? They do not have a political voice. They are visitors.
You accuse of straw man arguments, and then create one yourself. Are the students fomenting unrest? Are the students engaging in activities outside the curriculum they have been granted access to? Perhaps it's just being treated as a vehicle.

Visa holders do not enjoy the same catalog of rights and freedoms as citizens.; 30-09-25 7:33 PM
n.n చెప్పారు...: Aliens have a right to petition for redress, not protest, let alone to take affirmative action to prosecute American civil liberties unburdened of citizens and permanent residents.; 30-09-25 7:33 PM
n.n చెప్పారు...: Palestine is a reference to an unincorporated territory that included Jewish communities. A territory organized after the fall of the Ottoman empire and later Nazi-aligned left-wing regimes and terrorists in the woke of the second world war.; 30-09-25 7:51 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Mark said...

Achilles, to trans people thats what they feel Rowling is saying.

LOL. Your feelings aren't reality. This is trash.

You are revoking visas because of how people feel when they hear a slogan. You railed against those UK cops, but yet mimic their attitude toward 'crimes of speech'

If you say "Muslim criminals are bad" in Britain you shouldn't go to jail.

If you yell "From the River to the Sea." you shouldn't go to jail. But you are a piece of shit.

If you are visiting our country and you chant "From the River to the Sea" then go the fuck home.

It really isn't that hard. You are just a dishonest person that cannot discuss this in good faith.; 30-09-25 8:09 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: Most of the comments here show no awareness of the applicable law or the facts. Read up folks!!!! It's a strong opinion that acknowledges all the difficulties but concludes that this was a purposeful campaign to intimidate and inhibit the wholly lawful expression of pro-Palestinian political views by persons lawfully in the United States--some with green cards and some with visas. It carefully examined, and rejected, the view that none of the speakers had first amendment rights. Read it before you trash it!; 30-09-25 8:17 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Stephen said...

Most of the comments here show no awareness of the applicable law or the facts. Read up folks!!!! It's a strong opinion that acknowledges all the difficulties but concludes that this was a purposeful campaign to intimidate and inhibit the wholly lawful expression of pro-Palestinian political views by persons lawfully in the United States--some with green cards and some with visas. It carefully examined, and rejected, the view that none of the speakers had first amendment rights. Read it before you trash it!

LOL.

RESPECT MY APPEAL TO ATHORITAY!

If you are here on a Visa or a Green Card and you chant "From the River to the Sea" it is time for you to go home.; 30-09-25 8:23 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: As a test, flip the fact: what if the visa holders were Uighur refugees picketing at the Chinese Embassy? And the deporting president was a democrat. Same result?

The judge's concluding remarks are telling, as well. A Reagan appointee, here is what he wrote:

"Freedom is a fragile thing and it’s
never more than one generation
away from extinction. It is not
ours by way of inheritance; it must
be fought for and defended constantly
by each generation, for it comes
only once to a people."

President Ronald Reagan, Inaugural Address as Governor of the State of California (January 5, 1967).

"I first heard these words of President Reagan’s back in
2007 when my son quoted them in the Law Day celebration speech at the Norfolk Superior Court. I was deeply moved and hold these words before me as a I discharge judicial duties. As I’ve read and re-read the record in this case, listened widely, and reflected extensively, I’ve come to believe that President Trump truly understands and appreciates the full import of President Reagan’s inspiring message –- yet I fear he has drawn from it a
darker, more cynical message. I fear President Trump believes the American people are so divided that today they will not stand up, fight for, and defend our most precious constitutional values so long as they are lulled into thinking their own personal interests are not affected.

"Is he correct?"; 30-09-25 8:30 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: Achilles, You appear to have no interest in the content or fair application of First Amendment law. If your side wins, it's good; if you lose, it's bad. There's no point in debating you. When you demonstrate that you have any capacity to absorb facts or law, I'm happy to engage, but right now it would be a complete waste of time.; 30-09-25 8:37 PM
Aggie చెప్పారు...: 'I can set up my encampment with tents and support logistics in the middle of campus ! It's my First Amendment right as a student here on a visa ! I can harass Jewish students and blast with my hand megaphone into their face ! I can storm their libraries and force them to barricade ! It's my First Amendment right as a student here on a visa ! I can be obnoxious and prevent paying students from attending their classes by blocking their way ! It's my First Amendment right as a student here on a visa !

All of these things have happened, and none of them are straw men.; 30-09-25 8:42 PM
Rusty చెప్పారు...: It isn't a suicide pact, Stephen. If you were a guest at my house and berated me and my family in that way I'd ask you to leave too. Oh. It isn't a matter of free speech. You want to enjoy all the rights and privileges of citizenship? become a citizen.; 30-09-25 8:46 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Stephen said...

As a test, flip the fact: what if the visa holders were Uighur refugees picketing at the Chinese Embassy? And the deporting president was a democrat. Same result?

LOL.

Uighurs trying to get the Chinese to stop wiping out their people in concentration camps

vs.

Supporting Hamas Killing all of the Jews in Israel.

And you wonder why everyone hates you. I have no problems with Uighurs picketing Chinese embassies. They can stay.

I don't like people that support Hamas. They can go.

The first amendment does not apply to people we give Visas.; 30-09-25 8:58 PM
Achilles చెప్పారు...: Stephen said...

Achilles, You appear to have no interest in the content or fair application of First Amendment law. If your side wins, it's good; if you lose, it's bad. There's no point in debating you. When you demonstrate that you have any capacity to absorb facts or law, I'm happy to engage, but right now it would be a complete waste of time.

When you had power you kicked Trump and people like me off of facebook, twitter, youtube and you threatened my job if I didn't get a COVID vaccine.

I don't respect you in any way shape or form. You are an enemy that only wants to get power and take my freedom away.

You will pass gun control laws at your first opportunity. You do not support the Constitution at all. Your only goal is to take my freedom.

I don't respect your claims to first amendment protection after you have already taken my first amendment rights away the first chance you got.; 30-09-25 9:03 PM
Maynard చెప్పారు...: Stephen is an obvious liberal who has great moral superiority but little grasp of relevant facts. He is convinced that Trump is a threat to free speech and Biden was a great defender.; 30-09-25 9:11 PM
Hassayamper చెప్పారు...: Immigrant citizens have the same rights as American-born citizens. As others have said, those here on temporary visas do not. Whether they have the same First Amendment rights as citizens is, I suppose, an open question.

Not at all. Under the First Amendment, any person including a temporary visitor on a visa-- or even an illegal immigrant, for that matter-- has the freedom to speak his mind in America, without any fear of being punished by the government. One cannot be fined or imprisoned or executed for political opinions, if they do not rise to the level of fraud, defamation, direct threats, conspiracy to commit a crime, or incitement of imminent violence.

But no one has any property right in a visa or treaty that grants a foreigner permission to visit here. It is effectively the "property" of the US Government. The President may at his discretion grant it, withhold it, or revoke it, as he, the Secretary of State, or other delegated underling sees fit.; 30-09-25 9:51 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Aggie, None of the things you describe was used as a basis for deportation in the case that was decided. It was all pure speech. The court did not decide what his ruling would have been in the case of unlawful conduct.; 30-09-25 10:23 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Rusty, Legally, the guest in the home analogy is not relevant--this is a public space. Moreover, the berating me and my family point is off base too--they were making claims about politics, not persons.; 30-09-25 10:26 PM
Hanoi Paris Hilton చెప్పారు...: Yo, Dinky Dau 45! Assume you're a VN vet ("beaucoup dinky day" was the phrase amongst GI stoners then in-country to buy cannabis and to goof on its usage) and you're now 80 years old? Probably ragingly anti-war during and after the end —fifty years ago just last April— of the Second Indochina War, with a total defeat and humiliation of the Americans and our thrown under the bus allies in S. VN, Cambodia, and Laos. You been back to those parts recently? I'm writing this from Vientiane and was in Hanoi last week delivering two presentations at sister confs there (and have spent maybe five years altogether living and working in all three countries on the winning since US citizens were first allowed even to set foot there in 1989. Never before saw the hammer and sickle banners flying everywhere like now in the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Lao Peoples Democratic Republic. Is that the outcome you wanted? But astonishingly, I just I won the "best poster award" for this... https://cultivateunderstanding.com/Digital_Media/PNC_ECAI_2025_Hanoi_poster_rev_A0.pdf; 30-09-25 11:16 PM
Inga చెప్పారు...: Achilles is losing his shit more than usual.; 30-09-25 11:33 PM
Cameron చెప్పారు...: Its not even a free speech issue in these cases. These people came on student visas for the express purpose of studies. Not to engage in political protest against the host country. On those grounds alone the visa could be revoked.; 30-09-25 11:49 PM
Cameron చెప్పారు...: "Not at all. Under the First Amendment, any person including a temporary visitor on a visa-- or even an illegal immigrant, for that matter-- has the freedom to speak his mind in America, without any fear of being punished by the government. One cannot be fined or imprisoned or executed for political opinions, if they do not rise to the level of fraud, defamation, direct threats, conspiracy to commit a crime, or incitement of imminent violence."

If you were given a visa to attend studies, and instead spent that time as a professional activist you can most definitely have your visa revoked for not sticking to the conditions of that visa.; 30-09-25 11:50 PM
JIM చెప్పారు...: So extreme radical foreigners here on a visa can radicalize at will and there's nothing that can be done - America's progressive Obama judicial appointees!; 30-09-25 11:51 PM
G. Poulin చెప్పారు...: I'm kind of a "screw Israel" guy myself, and tend to sympathize with the other side. But the question is whether the government has the right to deport non-citizens. The answer is that it does, at its own discretion. The court is in the wrong on this matter.; 01-10-25 12:08 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Maynard, No moral superiority claimed here. The question is what the First Amendment means and whether it protects speech for the speech we hate. I agree that the Biden administration was far from perfect in that regard, but Trump has many times gone far beyond anything that the Biden administration did. I see no acknowledgement of that, and when push comes to shove, people refuse to deal with the actual facts of the cases, as Aggie and Rusty just did.

If you disagree, why don't you tell me what the Biden administration did that was as anti free speech as the law firm executive orders or the Harvard funding freeze or blackmailing businesses to settle Trump's bogus libel suits.; 01-10-25 12:16 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Cameron, Radical speech is not unlawful. Moreover, it seems that you don't have any problem with right wing radical speech. Sure they came to study, but they did not promise to shut off their brains and hearts. And what if their studies here in the US taught them, for example, that vaccines work? Would it be a deportable offense for them to call RFK Jr. a charlatan? For pete's sake, read the cases.; 01-10-25 12:22 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Cameron, None of these people was shown not to have studied or to have been a professional activist. You are just making up facts here.; 01-10-25 12:23 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @JIM, Many of the judges who are writing these opinions were appointed by Republican Presidents.; 01-10-25 12:24 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @GPoulin, The question in the case is whether you are right. The cases point both ways, with the defendants best cases stemming from the second Red Scare era, but on my reading there is no case in which a systematic program of viewpoint based deportation has been upheld on the basis of pure political speech as innocent as this. It will be interesting to see how the courts handle the appeal. But first, we need to know the remedy....; 01-10-25 12:29 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) చెప్పారు...: The interesting thing with these pseudo “wins” that the left celebrates is that the celebrants never see, or at least acknowledge they see, the Big Reversal ahead and what THAT precedent will mean. What keeps happening is historic in that Trump has found a way to loosen the left’s grip and reverse the famous Ratchet Effect where government kept growing incrementally and federal power kept being aggregated in the bureaucracy instead of the three branches as designed.

But every Trump win on Constitutional issues has served to sever leftists and bureaucrats from their power. And every temporary “win” that the leftists cheer, like yesterday, is but a brief stop on the way to more power more authority and more discretion in the Executive. Humphrey’s Executor is now teed up ready to be crushed. Because your side pushed the issue believed your own bullshit about “independence” of this or that commission or panel or whatever.

Y’all coulda accepted any number of different outcomes by stopping the riots, or keeping campuses safe for black students (oops that was last time, now the left is harassing Jews on campus), or allowed the orderly deportation of murderers human smugglers and rapists and saved your fight for the sympathetic immigrants but NO you lefties went full retard and now will reap the rewards of that choice.; 01-10-25 5:11 AM
Leland చెప్పారు...: Stephen said...
As a test, flip the fact: what if the visa holders were Uighur refugees picketing at the Chinese Embassy? And the deporting president was a democrat. Same result?

That’s a flip case? Protestors protesting in the United States against the Chinese Embassy? Well, ok. If they are here on a student visa, and they are picketing at an embassy and not attending classes, then they can have their visa’s revoked.

But the actual flip case is US Congressmen disagreeing with the Democrat President, and they got put on terrorist watch list to be surveilled. Not to mention Democrat DAs bringing up RICO charges for conspiracy to run an opposition political campaign.; 01-10-25 5:43 AM
Leland చెప్పారు...: 4 years of Democrats calling Americans insurrectionist terrorists for protesting at the Capitol, and now it is free speech for foreigners to harass students attending classes based on race? You want a flip case, see Republican response to the Madison capital protest.; 01-10-25 5:46 AM
Jonathan Burack చెప్పారు...: Someone should quote for this idiot judge that line about the Constitution not being a suicide pact.; 01-10-25 6:52 AM
Not Illinois Resident చెప్పారు...: Biden administration staffers insisted that Facebook and Twitter remove any posts critical of Covid Vax, or Covid Mandate on masks and "separation". The emails exist. Zuckerberg confirmed this occurred, that Facebook complied. Those who questioned Covid policies were often officially censored by US government interventions on social media. This new ruling demonstrates Covid-related censored-silenced individuals have right to "free speech", right to publicly express their opinions, loudly and obnoxiously, and likely now have ability to recoup tort damages from Biden Administration officials who compelled social media to delete their posts and/or deplatform them.; 01-10-25 8:54 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. చెప్పారు...: @Seb, the Constitution doesn’t grant anyone free speech rights; it curtails the government from violating anyone’s free speech rights anywhere in the world. Khalil and Öztürk are free to speak unencumbered by the the US government in their respective shitholes; 01-10-25 9:33 AM
Rusty చెప్పారు...: Stephen said...
"@Rusty, Legally, the guest in the home analogy is not relevant--this is a public space. Moreover, the berating me and my family point is off base too--they were making claims about politics, not persons."

See what Biunks said.
And maybe address Hassayamper's assertion.
Your assertion that it isn't relevant should be proven.; 01-10-25 10:05 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @MJB (Michael Wolf), I am fully aware that Humphrey's Executor seems likely to be overruled. I think that's a bad outcome for the country, and unless you think that there will never be a Democratic President again, I think you should too.

I don't get your point about the Free Speech victories being temporary though. Are you saying that establishing the unitary Presidency will allow the President to violate the First Amendment?; 01-10-25 10:27 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Leland, The people who broke into the Capitol were convicted of crimes in front of a jury, or pleaded guilty. Many of the convictions were for breaking and entering or assault--not for speech. In contrast, none of the people whose deportation was at issue in Judge Young's case had harassed anyone or engaged in any criminal conduct. You are making up facts to support your argument.; 01-10-25 10:37 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Leland, The evidence that Congressman were put on terrorist watch lists is sketchy at best, and clearly covers some Democratic lawmakers. Here the evidence of Trump's anti speech actions is public and well documented, to the extent that courts routinely treat is as undisputed.; 01-10-25 10:39 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: @Not Illinois Resident, The campaign against covid misinformation, which incidentally occurred under Trump I as well as Biden, was ultimately held by the Supreme Court not to violate the First Amendment.; 01-10-25 10:41 AM
PM చెప్పారు...: Homegrown or not, intelligent or not - peaceable protest is a hallmark of my country.; 01-10-25 10:43 AM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: Correcting an error. The Court held that the plaintiff's lacked standing, and did not resolve the First Amendment issue. My memory failed me. I agree that government jawboning raises important First Amendment questions. But the coercion that Justice Alito decried in his dissent was nothing as compared with the direct punishments both threatened and administered by the Trump administration.; 01-10-25 10:51 AM
Aggie చెప్పారు...: ..."But the coercion that Justice Alito decried in his dissent was nothing as compared with the direct punishments both threatened and administered by the Trump administration...." Not 'coercion'. Instructions. Documented, with lists attached of those to be silenced, and as has been proven, silenced in the defense of bad science and arbitrary policy-making. Funny how your bias treats these events inflicted on US citizens is 'nothing' yet the authorized expulsion of those here illegally, or with their visas withdrawn, is labelled a 'punishment'. I guess we'll see how those chips fall on appeal, eh?; 01-10-25 12:09 PM
Stephen చెప్పారు...: Aggie, You misstated my point. The word coercion was Justice Alito's, I simply echoed it. Your argument is with him, not me. I said it was a serious issue. FYI, plenty of the direct punishments of speech by Trump have been squarely directed at US citizens--indeed most of them--law firm executive orders, university defunding, coercion to settle libel claims.; 01-10-25 12:55 PM

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