... so that we wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's viewpoint discrimination. But with the failure to to articulate the violation, I think we are entitled to presume it was viewpoint discrimination. No jumping required.
That's my response to "Park Service removes statue of Trump and Epstein from National Mall/The statue, the latest installation by an anonymous group of artists critical of the president, was supposed to be on display until 8 p.m. Sunday" (WaPo)(gift link):
The National Park Service removed a statue of President Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein holding hands from the National Mall early Wednesday morning, a day after it was placed there. 'The statue was removed because it was not compliant with the permit issued," Interior Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Peace said in an email. She did not respond to follow-up questions about how or why the statue was not in compliance or if the department had provided the required 24-hour written notice before revoking the permit....
Carol Flaisher, a D.C.-based location manager, filed the permit application with the National Park Service on behalf of the artists who created the statue. She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked.
The permit issued to Flaisher says: “Superintendent may revoke this permit at any time after providing 24 hours’ written notice to the Permittee setting forth the reasons for the revocation.”
Yeah, it's a stupid statue. But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
ADDED: Reading more of the article, I see: "In a video of the statue’s removal provided to The Washington Post, a National Park Service official can be seen saying that the installation is 'out of compliance' because it is several feet larger than stated in the permit. The video was taken by a security team member who had been assigned to monitor the statue as required by the permit."
If that's the answer, why didn't Interior Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Peace put that in her original email response to The Washington Post? Why did she not respond to the follow-up questions if there is such an easy answer? If she cared about the First Amendment or if this really was the true answer, why wasn't she eager to provide it?
I see that "Flaisher said there was a height discrepancy because the base of the statue was not included in the permit approval. But she said no objections were raised when the statue was placed on the Mall, and she was never informed there was an issue."
So is it to be all about the plinth?
పోస్ట్లు
138 కామెంట్లు:
Another own goal by this administration of snowflakes, who cannot handle Jimmy and his mean words nor allowing bad art to sit on the mall a few days as the permit says.
Five years ago was peak woke and your average person turned away. Now we are at peak MAGA and the average people are beginning the turn.
r
It offends me. Knock it down. Same as the left did to our National Statues they were crying about......
How come artists didn’t make statues of Biden during his term? How about Biden sniffing the hair of little girls? Or one of him shuffling around with that dazed look? Or that speech in Philly with the Marines and red background? You know that one; the Nuremberg rally speech.
These artists think they are so clever, but they are too dumb to realize the death and destruction Biden brought to the country. Just look at housing prices. Or crime statistics. That’s all on Biden.
it's a stupid statue. But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
Heroes of the first amendment are always inconvenient. But why is political art always such childish dreck?
I feel comfortable speculating, without reading, on the general attitude of WaPo readers, as reflected in the comments section.
But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.
Let's not get carried away. These silly stunts are by radical leftists for radical leftists. Nothing more, nothing less.
“ “It was depressing. I came here specifically to see the statue,” said Nigel Collie, 68, who was visiting from Portland, Oregon. “It’s another indication of the deterioration of free speech.”
1. Liar.
2. Nigel Collie?
3. Tell us about the free speech in Portland where Antifa shut down a federal courthouse.
Charlie Kirk was a living monument to free speech. Remind me again how many lefties were ok with his removal?
I think this is all purposeful. To make it look like the trump administration is tramping all over rights. Take the Kimmel thing. ABC had no intention of taking him off the air, or keeping him off the air, but never let a crisis go to waste! They could take him off for a few days, make it look like the Trump administration was SILENCING him, then bring him back on in a triumph of free speech and a decent bump in his miserable ratings (BTW, Matt Walsh gets more views than Kimmel). Give him a chance to do a weepy non apology: "I didn't say bad things, you just interpreted them wrongly." Now, let's put up a shitty statue, but fuck up the paperwork so that the government has to take it down, to make it look like the Trump administration is thinned skinned. Not everything is as it seems. This shit works great on the useful idiots.
From the article,
"a National Park Service official can be seen saying that the installation is “out of compliance” because it is several feet larger than stated in the permit. The video was taken by a security team member who had been assigned to monitor the statue as required by the permit.
Flaisher said there was a height discrepancy because the base of the statue was not included in the permit approval. But she said no objections were raised when the statue was placed on the Mall, and she was never informed there was an issue."
Maybe this is something that the park service can hang their hat on. But my gut reaction is that this statue at least got additional scrutiny for violations because of the what it depicted.
Is it viewpoint discrimination and a violation of the First Amendment if governments refuse to protect Statuary from mobs because of what is depicted in the statues, say statues from Americans who fought for the Confederacy or Founding Fathers who also owned slaves?
This fact seems to support the idea that the Park Service did take the present statue down because of a permit violation because a previous statue critical of Trump was left up.
"In June, the group placed an installation on the Mall titled “Dictator Approved” that included statements of support for Trump from authoritarian leaders Russian President Vladimir Putin, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro and North Korea’s Kim Jong Un."
All they had to do was put a sign on the statute saying it is a LIE... that Trump kicked out Epstein from his resort.. they were not friends once Trump found out just what he was.
@Dave Begley, 6:41- This article was already written before the "journalists" found some people to fill in the blanks.
Why are apparently random artists allowed to install "art" on the National Mall anyhow?
This follows the Biden adminstration allowing the installation of a sculpture of Pelosi's desk with poop on top -- in bronze (painted wood and foam). This happened in October 2024, and perhaps from the same political art group. In 2024 the NPS engaged in viewpoint advocacy.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/29/nx-s1-5169978/poop-desk-statue-tiki-torch-national-mall
Libertarian viewpoint: if the Feral Gummit did not own/control that patch of real estate, there would be no controversy about fair/proper use of its sovereign power.
It actually SHOULD have depicted Bill Clinton with HIS bestie Jeff!!!
The parks own permit states guidelines on compliance.
Dave Begley said...
How come artists didn’t make statues of Biden during his term? How about Biden sniffing the hair of little girls?
Oh, they did, but they used a much better medium than a national park that only reaches a few thousand people.
https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/237163020/Joe-Biden-Sniffs-Hair
Let’s just call it treason and arrest everyone involved with the statue. Put them on trial for their lives. If you’re going to be accused of being a dictator no matter what you do, you might as well show them what “authoritarian” really looks like.
Obvious lies ramp up engagement from the right, and that engagement churns up engagement from the left in response. It's a "virtuous cycle" if you think of it coldly in terms of ratings.
Shouldn't we at least wait until Harvard conducts a double blind peer reviewed study to tell us what the proper opinion is?
These mall installations are getting swept together with Trump's review and purge of left-wing content in the Smithsonian museums all around the National Mall. While under different management, NPS and the Smithonian coordinate.
Here, I suppose the Burning Man artists look for something to do in the offseason.
Purposes The purposes of this application are (1) to provide a National Park Service (NPS) Park Superintendent with information to
approve or deny requests for activities that provide a benefit to an individual, group, or organization, rather than the public at large; and
(2) to assist Park staff to manage the activity to ensure that the permitted activity does not interfere with the enjoyment of the Park by
visitors and that the natural and cultural resources of the Park are protected
It’s clear from the application the park service is making accommodations for special purpose use of the park, though political action is not explicit. Weighing the activity of the special interest vs the welfare of the general public is clearly weighed and they make it clear they prioritize the latter. The problem is lefties always believe their right to shit on others includes the requirement to provide the platform for them to do it. Shall not be infringed as they say…
…btw Ann’s 1A concern trolling is misplaced. Given where we are nobody will be persuaded to flip sides because of spats like this…
btw it’s illegal so shit in certain areas of a national park. Best to stick to locations designated for the activity…
I preferred the escalator "malfunction" because it got a lot more press coverage. But, if all you can get away with is moving a statue, go for it.
I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story.
Very clever. Whoever made the statue too big is taking a page from Trump's book. Covfefe.
Nope. Don't care. Garbage in, garbage out.
Reinstall it and have the "anonymous artists" identify themselves. The whole point of letting your freak flag fly is to make sure people understand how freaky you are.
The Epstein +Bill Clinton statue is next.
"Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story."
I would assume many on the left do. And this will be latched onto them as evidence of a pattern of behavior of authoritarian, specifically Free Speech stifling, behavior by the administration.
I have an idea. How about we just put art on the National Mall. Forget the stuff with an obvious, and might I say divisive point of view. And don’t give me that all art is political BS.
These are interesting:
ronetc said, "Why are apparently random artists allowed to install "art" on the National Mall anyhow?"
9/25/25, 7:01 AM
Zavier Onasses said, "Libertarian viewpoint: if the Feral Gummit did not own/control that patch of real estate, there would be no controversy about fair/proper use of its sovereign power."
9/25/25, 7:05 AM
wendybar said, "It actually SHOULD have depicted Bill Clinton with HIS bestie Jeff!!!"
9/25/25, 7:07 AM
rehajm said, "The parks own permit states guidelines on compliance."
9/25/25, 7:10 AM
Y'all brought it and made salient points. Nice.
Leftists sure do like to waste their own time.
Democrats are the party of hate, murder, assassination, lies and terror.
Trump should know this FFS : "The Streisand effect is a phenomenon where attempts to hide or censor information inadvertently increase public awareness of that information. It is named after Barbra Streisand, whose efforts to suppress a photograph of her home led to it being viewed by many more people than it would have otherwise.
I'm going to commission a statue of Epstein and Bill and Hillary.
Hopefully Kimmil (D) will shed tears on his show over it.
Democracy is over!
“Carol Flaisher, a D.C.-based location manager, filed the permit application with the National Park Service on behalf of the artists who created the statue. She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked.”
The reporters took her word for it? Did they check if permits have ever been revoked- either ones she applied for or other ones? We know the WaPo and NYT distort and misrepresent facts all the time. Why should we believe them this time?
Bill and Monica
also - Bill sexually assaulting Paula Jones.
Hillary throwing a heavy vase in a spat of rage.
All potential statues.
"I'm curious if anyone actually cares about this stupid story."
Not interested in this or any other stupid story. But that is just me.
That's very funny Howard. You can pronounce "very funny" in your head with whatever intonation you please.
lefties always believe their right to shit on others includes the requirement to provide the platform for them to do it
…even here in the blog there is a kind of sort of sometimes permit for speech and expression, except when that permit is revoked. Reasons are sometimes given like I’m not going to help your side other times the art is quietly removed without explanation…
While vile time wasting leftists waste time..
The Democrat Party's terror incentives and structures are being exposed.
here
and
here
Carol Flaisher. Perhaps she could be awarded with a heaping pile of horse shit in her driveway?
I call it "art"
“If it wasn't viewpoint discrimination but actually some violation of the terms of the permit, I think they would have articulated the violation... ... so that we wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's viewpoint discrimination. But with the failure to to articulate the violation, I think we are entitled to presume it was viewpoint discrimination. No jumping required.”
What if you had to argue that this statement is nonsensical?
Charlie Kirk's Assassin was aided by those Democrat Party terror structures.
I suspect that WaPo did not include the entire story. WaPo says Ms. Peace did not respond to a follow up email. How long did they give her to respond before running the story? An hour? A day? I imagine she has other tasks than to wait and respond to emails from WaPo.
Public spaces should be accessible and comfortable for everyone, not just the Jimmy Kimmel crowd.
Is it heavy? It does look dangerous. I’m sorry park officials did not prioritize Ann’s 1A objections over public safety. You get the government you deserve…
Good Morgin, Tim. I actually added ",asshole" to "very funny." The accent I used was 1975 southie .
"Enigma said...
This follows the Biden adminstration allowing the installation of a sculpture of Pelosi's desk with poop on top -- in bronze (painted wood and foam). This happened in October 2024, and perhaps from the same political art group. In 2024 the NPS engaged in viewpoint advocacy."
You make it sound like Biden was open enough to allow a statue critical of Pelosi. Which is bullshit. Here is what the plaque on that statue reads, and of course it's just lies:
“This memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021 to loot, urinate and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election,” reads the plaque on the pedestal below.
Speech suppression once again amplifes that speech.
Tonight Jimmy Kimmel will announce it was the MAGA people who put it up and the Biden people who took it down. Also anyone upset is just crying because their pet goldfish died.
So, was it freedom of expression to shoot Kirk or was it a denial of free speech to silence him?
@Curious George: No, I linked to the original story. The statue was obviously anti-Trump, as the poop incident happened on Jan 6 and came from the butthole of a Trump supporter.
So is it to be all about the plinth?
And now another episode of Bad Faith Conceptual Art, with your host Leonard Plinth-Garnell.
“This memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021 to loot, urinate and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election,“
Loot? Did they break the windows at the congressional Rolex store and steal the watches?
“But now the stupidity of the government has turned it into a monument to freedom.”
A “monument to freedom”? More like a monument to DemocRAT Idiocyand mental illness
Art on the left
"Loot? Did they break the windows at the congressional Rolex store and steal the watches?"
That one guy did take the Speaker's Lectern, which to me felt closer to college fraternity prank than an assault on Democracy. I also remember the media covering the return of the Lectern trying to act as if it was an important solemn moment. I also remember the media pedantically making distinctions between a Lectern and Podium.
There is no viewpoint discrimination under the regulations, which seem hopeless out-of-date given the prevailing petulance in the nation's capital.
In other words, I guess Trump's antagonists forgot about "Donnie Bone Spurs"?
§ 12.3 Definitions.
The following definitions apply only to the regulations in this part...
Commemorative monument means a monument, tablet, structure, or other commemorative installation of permanent materials to honor more than one veteran.
§ 12.9 Commemorative monuments.
(a) Application.
(1) A person requesting authorization to erect a commemorative monument shall submit such a request to the Director. The Director's approval should be obtained prior to fabrication of the commemorative marker since approval for installation is conditioned upon compliance with other specifications found in this section and all applicable provisions of this part.
(2) An applicant for authorization to erect a commemorative monument shall include the following information in the application:
(i) A list of the persons to be memorialized and the other data desired to be inscribed on the commemorative monument; and
(ii) A scale plan depicting the details of the design, materials, finish, carving, lettering and the arrangement of the inscription proposed for the commemorative monument.
(b) Specifications.
(1) The Director may only authorize a commemorative monument that conforms to the type, size, materials, design, and specifications prescribed for the historic design of the individual cemetery section in which it is proposed for installation.
(2) The Director may not approve a commemorative monument that bears an inscription that includes the name of the person(s) responsible for its purchase or installation.
(c) Expense. A commemorative monument approved by the Director may be installed only under the conditions that there be no expense or liability incurred by the National Park Service in connection with its purchase, fabrication, transportation, delivery and erection.
(d) Title to a commemorative monument vests in the National Park Service upon its acceptance by an official representative of the Director.
I don't see claiming the NPS is required to perform an immediate inspection of the installation as reasonable. I'm pretty confident the application and associated guidelines spell out the requirements to supply and then adhere to dimensional data (when in doubt, overestimate). You would think this would be understood by somebody as experienced in working with the NPS as Flaisher claims.
I'm also not putting much stock in the NPS spokesperson not knowing the reason immediately, either. I highly doubt the removal was widely communicated inside the NPS, and also highly suspect this was a request from the reporter made with just enough time to be able to print exactly what the story did, or the usual "didn't respond by press time".
Ms. Peace, the Interior Department spokesperson, was hired in 2021 by the Biden Administration.
https://www.legistorm.com/person/bio/234861/Jennifer_Elizabeth_Peace.html
https://www.legistorm.com/person/bio/234861/Jennifer_Elizabeth_Peace.html
Why are people who are permitted to make "free speech" installations on the National Mall allowed to do so anonymously?
Maybe Flaisher and the Park Service are are in cahoots to create a 1st Amendment incident to attack Trump with...because that's how dumb it is if Trump ordered the statue removed. It's something his enemies would do if they could.
The statue made the left look petty and childish until it was removed. Now it makes the President look that way...if he actually ordered it removed. Maybe it was just a dumbass who works for him thinking it would please Trump. Like Carr shooting his mouth off about Kimmel.
A large plinth that should have been the size of a small plinth.
"Chris said...
I think this is all purposeful. To make it look like the trump administration is tramping all over rights."
This is an interesting idea worth considering. Maybe this person intentionally erected the statue knowing it was out of compliance hoping the statue would be removed for that technical violation which could then be turned into a story about freedom of speech being quashed. In favor of that is the fact that she has been erecting statues in the mall for decades. It is highly unlikely that she would not at least be aware of the possible issue of permissible size and height of statues and whether or not this includes the plinth or not. Perhaps she knowingly constructed the statue in the manner it was, hoping it would be found to be non-compliant which it could then falsely be turned into a story about how freedom of speech is under attack. Bureaucracies tend to act like Bureaucracies and it is not unexpected for a statue that is several feet higher than the limit to be found non-compliant.
Any suggestion Trump is involved is made without any evidence, as they say. He's doing enough already without people dragging him into their pet controversy.
Please, I beg you, read the actual regulations (above).
So they knock down a statue of an authoritarian, fascist, dictator. Cool story.
"She said that in over 40 years of working with the Park Service arranging installations and filming, she has never had a permit revoked."
An "Historic First"? How exciting!
"And this will be latched onto them as evidence of a pattern of behavior of authoritarian, specifically Free Speech stifling, behavior by the administration."
If not this, they'd find something else to get all wee-weed up over.
Is the artist protesting discrimination of sexual orientation (i.e. pedophilia)? That's a viewpoint. And while the practice is legal under Democratic law, in liberal ideology, it is still incongruent in polite company. Bitter clingers and all.
What if you had to argue that this statement is nonsensical?
Could be a little chilly tonight in the MeadeHouse.
If I’m president, I’m not tolerating a statue of me holding hands with a pedo to be placed on federal land. That’s not viewpoint discrimination. That’s defamation discrimination.
- Krumhorn
Someone needs to get a gripth here.
Viewpoint discrimination has been in place for decades. Let's stop pretending otherwise and cut out the performative vapors
Who said she didn't put that in her reply to rhe Washington POSt?
You trust the Washington POSt?
These people slandered Johnny Depp, Nick Sandmann, and several parents in Loudoun County.
As far as I know neither Trump nor Epstein were veterans.
I'm with ronetc: what are any new statues being permitted on the national mall? The Park Service should simply say 'no' to all applications. I don't want to look at some artist's vanity project if I visit the mall, nor do I want to see propaganda on behalf of or against either party. It's ridiculous.
"Maybe Flaisher and the Park Service are are in cahoots to create a 1st Amendment incident to attack Trump with...because that's how dumb it is if Trump ordered the statue removed. It's something his enemies would do if they could. The statue made the left look petty and childish until it was removed. Now it makes the President look that way...if he actually ordered it removed. Maybe it was just a dumbass who works for him thinking it would please Trump. Like Carr shooting his mouth off about Kimmel."
Same people who sabotaged the escalator and the teleprompter maybe.
I've been keeping this theory in mind. Trump's got a lot of people who may or may not be loyal to him and he can't keep track of it all.
Is RFK Jr. on his side?
Hmmm. Looks like someone has been trying to create a buzz for a while.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2025/06/26/yet-another-anti-trump-statue-has-shown-up-on-the-national-mall/
"There is no viewpoint discrimination under the regulations..."
The question is whether there is viewpoint discrimination in applying the regulations.
After granting a permit, they found a reason or claimed they found a reason to say that something wasn't technically followed and they were not straightforward about saying what it was.
From the NYT article on the subject: "While the provenance of the statue remains unknown, it resembles several other recent protest art installations that have temporarily appeared on the National Mall in opposition to Mr. Trump.
In June, a statue titled “Dictator Approved” depicted a golden thumb crushing the Statue of Liberty. Last October, a bronze artwork appeared showing a pile of feces on a desk carrying a nameplate of Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat and former House speaker, a satirical reference to damage done by Trump supporters who rioted at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021."
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/24/us/politics/trump-epstein-statue-dc-national-mall.html
“Is RFK Jr. on his side?”
My questions are more elemental: I question the faith of DemocRATs: are their words and actions spoken or done in good or bad faith? Is it love of country and/or countrymen that stirs and inspires them or is it the destruction and dissolution of same?
I can see from your comment, "why didn't she put that in her email response"' that you have little experience working with government permitting organizations.
Same people who sabotaged the escalator and the teleprompter maybe.
Why would this be contemplated? Is it difficult to believe Trump wouldn’t have enough of the type of childish detractors willing to do these things? Is the comment sarcasm intended to belittle the theory?
Maybe we should make a statue of Obama selling Crimea to Putin.
Or having sex with his cook before drowning him.
How about a statue of Hillary admonishing Bill's rape victims with Bill wiping his dick off with a towel afterwards.
From the NYT article on the subject: "While the provenance of the statue remains unknown, it resembles several other recent protest art installations that have temporarily appeared on the National Mall in opposition to Mr. Trump.
Does the NYT not have access to the internet? The Washingtonian piece I linked discusses the history and motivations of the anonymous people working with Ms. Flaisher.
Perhaps they think that the prior history of the "art" installations, regarding which the Trump administration specifically stated “In the United States of America you have the freedom to display your so-called ‘art,’ no matter how ugly it is,” might undermine the premise of authoritarian censorship.
Or maybe they just don't research what they don't want to know.
Ilhan Omar getting married to her brother would make a good statue.
How about a statue of Barky 0bama riding the rodeo clown? 🤡
Or Josef Biden’s Leni Riefenstahl-inspired “UNITY” speech
Or Bill Clinton raping Juanita Broadderick… or revealing his “roll of quarters” to Paula Jones?
Nothing is new. Everyone pisses their panties when someone lampoons *their* Dear Leader.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Joker%22_poster
Epstein the "burden" with a pacifier and rattle.
Polanski in feces.
Obama under the Rainbow.
Cecile's Scalpel
Biden in a Spring's Shower.
Levine Dreams of Herr Mengele.
Kimmel's climate cacophony.
Fauci's pathogenic fiddle
Black rock in a Green blight
So many depraved expressions celebrated but unrealized.
I think the real victim here is Nigel Collie. Brought his ponytailed self all the way Portland, Oregon just to see this work of art. How pissapointed he must be.
0bama deserves a medal… or maybe a statue???
Terrence K. Williams
@w_terrence
Before Obama’s presideny. The following didnt exist.
There was no ISIS.
There was no caliphate.
There was no Black Lives Matter.
There was no Antifa.
There was no war on police.
All of that chaos started under his watch. He didn’t stop it, he started it. Obama is the real Divider-in-Chief, and America is still paying the price.
Barack Obama was the biggest mistake America has ever made, because his goal was never to build America up, his goal was to destroy it.
And the saddest part, So many people couldn’t see how corrupt he truly was, because they were too busy worshipping him simply because of his skin color.
The WaPo piece very carefully suggests that the Park Department didn't tell the installers why the installation was taken down, despite the permit application stating that they would provide 24-hour notice and reasons. The WaPo piece states: 'The statue was removed because it was not compliant with the permit issued," Interior Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Peace said in an email. She did not respond to follow-up questions about how or why the statue was not in compliance or if the department had provided the required 24-hour written notice before revoking the permit....
The WaPo then says that Carol Flaisher (who is primarily a successful film locations specialist) says that she's never previously had a permit revoked. (They don't ask or say how many prior applications or installations she's been involved in)
What they do not say is whether Ms. Flaisher (as opposed to WaPo) was told why the permit was revoked, which is what the permit specifies. They also do not state whether the email from Ms. Peace was in response to the WaPo inquiry or an email to Ms. Flaisher.
Methinks this is a ginned-up controversy.
"Methinks this is a ginned-up controversy."
Naaa, that never happens.
No, it wasn't put up by a bunch of "artists" it was put up by a bunch of "anti-Trump leftists". The MSM constantly pulls this rhetorical trick of "Don't name the leftist, always name the Rightist". That's why the MSM is constantly calling leftists "activists".
And keep your Goddamn political propaganda out of the national parks and other federal places.
This was a own-goal. It would have been better to put another statue next to it with Epstein in a group hug with Obama, Biden, and Bill Clinton.
And we get the whole story from an pro-protester point of view. Did you ever notice that when the MSM likes the protesters than its all about "Did the police treat them fairly" and "What are they protestering about?" but when its the right its all about "Extremism" and "look how violence broke out". THere wasn't one article in the MSM that was concerned about Ashli Babbitt getting murdered or whether the Capital Hill police treated the J6 protesters fairly.
You can be damn sure that if someone put up a statue of Biden with Epstein in 2024 in that same place, the WaPo wouldn't have reported it.
I see tons of great art ideas in this thread. Get out there and start sculpting! Exactly whose job do you think it is to realize your artistic ideas? It's not someone else's job to create *your* statue.
The right does lazy-ass memes and then acts like crybabies when the left strives for something more ambitions. Get those incels memebros off the couch and into the art studio!
The poor left. They were made to look childish. Gosh, well I think they know about what's good for them, then some outsider.
To establish “as applied” viewpoint discrimination, are there any other monuments that don’t fit the “commemorative monument” definition? Just how many are there?
If so, those monuments should go too. Example of “why we just can’t have nice things.”
Using a person’s likeness without permission should also be a requirement in these horribly outdated regulations.
We seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the ability to criticize America's past, present and potential future is somehow the pinnacle of the American spirit and encapsulation of our freedom. But when self-criticism becomes the sole subject of our national discourse, it becomes cultural suicide or demoralization, at best. These are not desirable ways to self-identify, in my mind, and I wonder "cui bono?" from such attitudes.
"To establish “as applied” viewpoint discrimination, are there any other monuments that don’t fit the “commemorative monument” definition? Just how many are there?"
Why did they issue the permit if this is the problem? Why didn't they raise this problem when they decided the terms of the permit were not met? Why did someone say it was the added height of the plinth? Were more compliant-seeming commemorations removed if the plinth affected the height?
I don't like that they broke the monument as they took it down. The thing had a permit.
I get the point of an issued permit.
I just recall that Dr. Simone Gold had a permit to be at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, and was arrested any way. She was questioning why the Covid vaccine got emergency use authorization when a therapeutic alternative existed with Ivermectin. She had dated her DC trial judge in college, and he refused to recuse himself and sentenced her to 60 days in prison.
Ann Althouse said...
I don't like that they broke the monument as they took it down. The thing had a permit.
Why are permits only allowed for one side?
Ann Althouse said...
"To establish “as applied” viewpoint discrimination, are there any other monuments that don’t fit the “commemorative monument” definition? Just how many are there?"
Why did they issue the permit if this is the problem? Why didn't they raise this problem when they decided the terms of the permit were not met? Why did someone say it was the added height of the plinth? Were more compliant-seeming commemorations removed if the plinth affected the height.
95% of Washington DC votes for democrats in every election.
You know why some permits are granted and others are not.
You also know that statue was almost certainly built by NGO money laundered from taxpayers.
Your position is juvenile.
Maybe we could put one up of Bill Clinton and Monica - with Hillary watching, off to the side, like, and Ken Starr off a little further. I'm sure that nobody would object to that representation of real life as political commentary. I'm certain nobody would exert viewpoint discrimination against something like that.
It all smells like a setup to me.
"95% of Washington DC votes for democrats in every election.
You know why some permits are granted and others are not."
First, I think the decision was made by the National Park Service. DC's voting record is neither here nor there. Second, if you are suggesting artists are getting denied permits, who are they? You cannot simply make a claim that you think is probably true. Did they sue for a First Amendment violation? What was the outcome?
In any event, I don't see how the remedy for viewpoint discrimination is even more viewpoint discrimination.
"Maybe we could put one up of Bill Clinton and Monica - with Hillary watching, off to the side, like, and Ken Starr off a little further."
Maybe? What's the "maybe" about it? You CAN DO THAT!
America is awesome! Let me quote something for you:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
MAKE YOUR BILL CLINTON STATUTE! 🙏
Kyle said...
We seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the ability to criticize America's past, present and potential future is somehow the pinnacle of the American spirit and encapsulation of our freedom. But when self-criticism becomes the sole subject of our national discourse, it becomes cultural suicide or demoralization, at best. These are not desirable ways to self-identify, in my mind, and I wonder "cui bono?" from such attitudes.
Ann assumes the people who protect her freedom will win against the people who want to take it from her.
Ann likes watching leftists shit on her protectors and the country that provide her freedom.
At some point the people who protect Ann are going to be fed up with the bullshit. She is coddled and entitled and doesn’t understand what it takes to make the United States a free country.
MAKE YOUR BILL CLINTON STATUTE!
Where is my taxpayer funded NGO money?
"Where is my taxpayer funded NGO money?"
It's being wasted on worthless federal employees whose job it is to *make memes*!
Most of the time the "we shoulds" one finds online are things we definitely shouldn't do that are suggested in response to things that other people shouldn't have done to begin with.
Achilles would be more pleased if the statue erected had not drawn attention to the fact that the president was close personal friends with a pedophile and very likely raped some kids himself.
Achilles prefers that his cult leader’s dirty, rapey actions stay swept under the rug.
Achilles likes freedom so much, he thinks his president should have the freedom to rape children.
Achilles thinks that anyone who doesn’t agree with him, should gtfo of his republic, one way or another. He would also like to kill all the commies.
Achilles is such a patriot, that his president has Achilles full suppor in all of his pedophilia.
So you wrote and published your opinion of the article before you read the full article.
There's a lot of that going around. At least you read past the headline.
"Why are permits only allowed for one side?"
What's the evidence of that? Are you assuming I've made a point that I have not? Who are you challenging?
If only one side gets permits, that underscores the problem I have with viewpoint discrimination. I am PRESUMING there was viewpoint discrimination. It's a presumption based not the available evidence (and making an inference) and a presumption embodying the value of the First Amendment and the priority of rights.
So what is your question supposed to mean?
If your point is the permit-granters are discriminating IN FAVOR of the anti-Trump message and WOULD, if the tables were turned, deny a permit to, say, an anti-Biden message, that would also violate the First Amendment.
But once the facts have advanced to the point where there is a permitted anti-Trump statue on display, you don't get to tear it down because a hypothetical pro-Trump statue would have been denied a permit. It doesn't erase the viewpoint discrimination that there is hypothetically another stage where, with different facts, there would be a different kind of viewpoint discrimination.
D.D. Driver said...
"Where is my taxpayer funded NGO money?"
It's being wasted on worthless federal employees whose job it is to *make memes*!
And dumb statues that get torn down.
Ann Althouse said...
If your point is the permit-granters are discriminating IN FAVOR of the anti-Trump message and WOULD, if the tables were turned, deny a permit to, say, an anti-Biden message, that would also violate the First Amendment.
Duh.
But we are talking about people who have been caught censoring us. You are trying to extend first amendment protections to people who actively practiced censorship.
Then you attack people who were censored and have been violently attacked on repeated occasions by the douchebags trying to put this statue up.
Ann Althouse said...
But once the facts have advanced to the point where there is a permitted anti-Trump statue on display, you don't get to tear it down because a hypothetical pro-Trump statue would have been denied a permit. It doesn't erase the viewpoint discrimination that there is hypothetically another stage where, with different facts, there would be a different kind of viewpoint discrimination.
So we should just give up and accept the constant violence and lies and lawfare.
We get it.
You have no idea where your freedom comes from or who protects it.
Ann Althouse said...
"Why are permits only allowed for one side?"
What's the evidence of that? Are you assuming I've made a point that I have not? Who are you challenging?
I am challenging anyone who thinks that the people issuing these permits or these protocols are acting in good faith.
I am challenging anybody who thinks you can peacefully engage with a political tribe that celebrates the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
I am challenging anyone who thinks the democrat party should have their viewpoints protected when those viewpoints are specifically designed to lead to the violent persecution and elimination of their political opponents.
The Democrat Party specifically wants to take away our first and second amendment rights. They do not get to use the freedoms someone else died for to take them from us.
The only reason in the current cultural context to put up a statue of Trump and Epstein is to label Trump as a pedophile and to justify killing him.
You know, if they keep beating this Epstein dead horse there is no way in hell Trump's going to be re-elected. Pretty savvy on their part.
"I am challenging anyone who thinks that the people issuing these permits or these protocols are acting in good faith."
We build special buildings called "courts." It's where people can go to to have their rights vindicated. So if you are denied a permit for your Bill Clinton statue, you can sue. Some of the most famous First Amendment cases protected the rights of crackpot rightwingers. National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, Snyder v. Phelps (Westboro Bapist). Crackpot rightwingers do *very well* at the Supreme Court on speech issues. Honestly, I'm not sure they have ever lost.
I do want to see your statue though. I'll even chip in on your GoFundMe.
“At some point the people who protect Ann are going to be fed up with the bullshit. She is coddled and entitled and doesn’t understand what it takes to make the United States a free country.”
“Ann” might want to consider that Achilles sees himself as far smarter than anyone, that he can rewrite the Constitution to fit his strange opinions, that he would take it upon himself to deny other Americans freedoms and protections that the Constitution affords all Americans, based on his notion that some American violated the “social contract” he so often rants about, that he just might become famous one day when he finally snaps and acts out his thinly veiled threats. If I were “Ann” I’d have good strong locks on my doors.
Fear not, Achilles weighs 345 pounds, breaks a sweat when he moves his mouse with too much gusto, sustains himself on monster energy drink and chicken nuggies and is too afraid of his own shadow and the voices in his head to go outside very often.
"Ann Althouse said...
I don't like that they broke the monument as they took it down. The thing had a permit."
DEI hires?
D.D. Driver said...
"I am challenging anyone who thinks that the people issuing these permits or these protocols are acting in good faith."
We build special buildings called "courts." It's where people can go to to have their rights vindicated. So if you are denied a permit for your Bill Clinton statue, you can sue. Some of the most famous First Amendment cases protected the rights of crackpot rightwingers.
I am sure the DC judge who has 3 family members in Washington DC NGO's will be totally fair.
Nobody takes you seriously when you post things this obviously stupid.
Inga said...
“At some point the people who protect Ann are going to be fed up with the bullshit. She is coddled and entitled and doesn’t understand what it takes to make the United States a free country.”
“Ann” might want to consider that Achilles sees himself as far smarter than anyone, that he can rewrite the Constitution to fit his strange opinions,
I am not rewriting the Constitution.
I am pointing out the democrat party took away my 1st amendment rights for 4 years under the Biden regime and none of you actually believe is applies to us.
I am pointing out you are constantly trying to eliminate the second amendment completely and you want to take away my right to self defense.
You do not believe in the Constitution. You actively try to take our freedom away. You dance and cheer when we are killed. You do not deserve Constitutional protections.
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