[A]s a high school senior in 2009 ... [a]sked to identify his race, he checked a box that he was “Asian” but also “Black or African American,” according to internal data derived from a hack of Columbia University that was shared with The New York Times.
So it depends on what the meaning of "or" is. It could mean "African American" is another way to say "Black," but it could mean check this box if you are either black or African Amercan or both. Mamdani didn't write the form. He filled it out. Now, of course, he knew there was a special advantage to be gained and that "Asian" wasn't much help if any, but he didn't lie. He perceived the potential for selfish advantage and he took it, and now he is offering to bring his advantage-taking skill to the people of New York. Where there is an edge to be gained, Mamdani will grab it for you, the citizens of New York City.
By the way, it is almost surely the case that Columbia wanted applicants to err on the side of claiming to belong to one of the minority groups Columbia gave an advantage to. It may have cared how the class looked when assembled in the auditoriums, and it may have even cared about the much touted educational benefits of a diverse student body. But it's safe to assume that Columbia wanted the racial percentages to look good on paper. If self-advantagers like Mamdani allowed Columbia, back in 2010, to say it had 14.5% "Black or African American" students instead of, say, 10%, Columbia would benefit. What's the problem? Fairness to applicants without the guts to interpret the form in their favor
ADDED: The Times of India explains to its readers:[I]n America, Blackness is recognised as a political identity born of struggle and oppression. Indian-American identity, by contrast, is often invisible—treated as an immigrant economic niche rather than a racial group needing justice. This is why even Kamala Harris, with a Tamil mother, emphasised her Black identity throughout her rise. The road to power in the US runs smoother through narratives of African American struggle than through the unrelatable caste-linguistic divisions of South Asia. Harris never denied her Indian heritage, but in political messaging, her mother’s dosa recipes were a footnote to her identity as a Black woman, a Howard alum, a beneficiary of the civil rights movement. To many Indian Americans, this choice felt strategic—because American categories do not accommodate multiple truths....
The hack that revealed his application data showed no speeches or interviews where Mamdani ever called himself Black or African American. Indeed, his political identity today is rooted in his South Asian Muslim heritage....
The deeper problem is that these boxes themselves are relics of imperial racial classification systems. British colonial governments divided populations into neat ethno-racial columns to control them; the US census and college applications inherited this logic. They leave no space for Indian-Ugandans, Indo-Caribbeans, or Tamil Malaysians—global citizens whose identities transcend national borders....
Ultimately, Mamdani’s saga is not about affirmative action cheating or woke posturing. It is about the impossibility of conveying ancestral history, racial experience, birthplace, migration, expulsion, diaspora, and faith into two or three colonial tick-boxes....
For all his effort to gain advantage — or, if we are to believe him, to begin to convey the particularity of his identity — Mamdani did not get into Columbia. He attended Bowdoin college.
123 కామెంట్లు:
Musk is African American too.
I call BS
Those categories are usually separated.
Musk is African-American. There are integrated Rainbows of African nativity with hyphenated labels divided in banners and parades.
DEIsm is a selfieish umbrella incorporation of class-disordered ideologies a la Marxism.
His race is Asian. He is not black nor was he a citizen when he filled out the form so he is not African-American.
My daughter has a friend who immigrated from South Africa. On college applications he always checked the African-American box.
Mamdani is a good speaker and will be the next NYC mayor. I hope he will suprise on the upside. However, I totally understand how moderate and conservative Jews could be worried.
The intersection of affirmative action and discrimination occurs at the back... black hole... whore h/t NAACP where racism and sexism intersect in social progress is a "burden" on social inclusion. Abort. Sequester.
He's as African-American as Elon Musk, the world's richest African-American.
Very first comment pretty much nails it. You can't claim that Musk is African American but Mandami isn't unless you are a complete hypocrite.
I call BS
Those categories are usually separated.
And I call BS on you. They are not separated, and you can claim multiple categories if you wish (since some time in the mid-90s. Leaving the form blank is an option. But, if you leave it blank, some administrator will make a best guess as to your ethnicity.
The co-mingling of "black" with "African American" allows racists to actually discriminate against blacks.
Columbia is run by, and attended by, racist people.
Sort of like Grambling, which will grudgingly admit white people only because if they didn't, they'd lose a lawsuit.
"Very first comment pretty much nails it. You can't claim that Musk is African American but Mandami isn't unless you are a complete hypocrite."
I was being sarcastic
You're African American, it's just that your ancestors left tens of thousands of years earlier. If your son had checked that box when applying to college and said, "What's the problem? Fairness to applicants without the guts to interpret the form in their favor?" would you have reacted the same way?
The parallels with Elizabeth Warren are interesting. Both Mandami and Warren are wont to falsely characterize free market economics as a zero sum game, where one’s gain comes at another person’s loss.
Except they don’t view the actual zero sum game of racial preferences in quite the same light. They win. Harvard or Columbia wins. But at the direct expense of a member of the actual preference class in whose stead Warren and Mandami got their leg up.
He didn't lie, but he didn't tell the truth either. We can't eradicate racism until we actually eradicate racist behaviors.
"Very first comment pretty much nails it. You can't claim that Musk is African American but Mandami isn't unless you are a complete hypocrite."
Has anyone said that Musk is African American other than as a witticism? Show me anyone, anywhere who says Musk should check a box that says "African American" in the context of getting an affirmative action advantage (other than in an effort to satirize affirmative action).
Put away that straw man.
He perceived the potential for selfish advantage and he took it, and now he is offering to bring his advantage-taking skill to the people of New York.
Why expect his skill for taking selfish advantage is going to be put to work for anyone but himself? Doesn't that rely on the common perception that elected officials serve the public? But clever people like you and Mamdani know better.
Under an “Ethnic_Group_Description” field, he said he was “Black Non_Hispanic”. He’s not. He’s Asian. Was “Asian” not an option? Puh-leeze.
My race is not derived from where I was born. Neither is his.
@bgates
I was being sarcastic.
Not sure if reported Columbia self-id is actually what he provided, but it says "Black Non-Hispanic," not "African-American"
There are Indians in southern states who are blacker than Black. There are some crispy fried People of Peach who could pass with a black hue. Africa has been colonized by the Chinese. Is Yellow the new color of the dark continent? DEIsts are a Grinch.
He's a person of color born in Africa. "Black" seems to fit. As althouse noted, Columbia U wants as many "Blacks" as possible.
“He's a person of color born in Africa. "Black" seems to fit.”
Does not matter where you were born. Your race is in your genes, not your zip code.
The need a category for "whiney victim"
I think we need to end racist forms and racist check-boxes.
De-humanizing racist BS.
Nobody thinks "African-American" means anybody who was born in Africa and became a United States citizen. "Black or African American" is odd wording because they mean the same thing.
Game playing can get you to a "not lying" answer, but I am not interested in game playing, I am interested in how a person who supports race-based decision-making lied about his race to improve his odds of a favorable decision.
He responded to incentives. This should surprise no one.
Photo-grab of his application shows that he chose the 'Black, non-Hispanic' category, so it would appear that he lied.
Tell me about that "American" part of African American when he made the application in 2009. He didn't become a US citizen until 2018.
Oh, and by the way, Kamala Harris isn't black. Her mother was from India and her father was a native Jamaican.
He "self-identified as Jamaican (not black) on Kamala Harris' birth certificate." - Grok
As an African-American, I had a similar experience when I went to college. My mother threatened to kill me...
"When I left, she said, 'Wincie, if you screw this up, I'll kill you.' She showed me the knife"
Harris isn't black. Neither is Obama - he's a mulatto.
“American categories do not accommodate….”? On a mortgage application, banks are required to allow you to report multiple race categories. It’s Colombia’s categories that did not accommodate.
Breezy correctly wrote: "Your race is in your genes, not your zip code."
And genetically, we are ALL Africa Americans. All descended from a very small group of people who lived in Africa.
Mamdani knew what boxes he was checking... knew it was a lie so he could get in.. but even with a father who was a professor working there he didn't have the grades... worse than a DEI... he was found wanting... even by the liberals. So now he is a Communist... who knew!
Neither is Obama - he's a mulatto."
Technically, Barack Obama is an "asshole."
Why didn't he call himself a woman?
I like how he fakes being poor. LOL.
Mad-manny is down with the struggle.
There's no debate over the meaning of 'or'. 'Black' is descended to some degree from Sub-Saharan Africans enslaved and brought to the US while 'African American' is the same but arriving after slavery ended. The accident of the place of your birth has nothing to do with it. 99% of the people checking those various boxes are born in the United States but I defy anyone to find a form that directly lists 'American' as an ethnicity when asking that question. Mamdani knows he doesn't qualify which is why he never actually claims to be African-American ergo he was lying.
You are absolutely correct to note that the Ivies et al care much more about the kaleidoscope effect their racial preferences have than the socioeconomic impact. Legacies and African immigrants work just fine in pictures in their glossy brochures.
Lastly, as a number of folks have noted, how dumb do you have to be to be rejected by an Ivy when you have a relative who works there AND you claim the AA boost?
What really surprises me is that the son of a Columbia professor was denied admission to the school. He went to the Bronx High School of Science, one of the highest rated schools in the nation, and he is a local boy. So why did he not get in? There must have been a powerful reason.
It is not very smart to claim to be black when your father is a prof at the school and everyone knows neither he nor his wife are black by definition of race, that is, *egroid in the traditional academic sense.
Tim Maquire said:
"Game playing can get you to a "not lying" answer, but I am not interested in game playing, I am interested in how a person who supports race-based decision-making lied about his race to improve his odds of a favorable decision. "
ding.
From the Times of India - linked...& posted by Ann, above.
"The hack that revealed his application data showed no speeches or interviews where Mamdani ever called himself Black or African American. Indeed, his political identity today is rooted in his South Asian Muslim heritage....
The deeper problem is that these boxes themselves are relics of imperial racial classification systems. British colonial governments divided populations into neat ethno-racial columns to control them; the US census and college applications inherited this logic. They leave no space for Indian-Ugandans, Indo-Caribbeans, or Tamil Malaysians—global citizens whose identities transcend national borders....
I remember the hooting and hollering--and outright laughter-- in 2004, when Teresa Heinz Kerry said she would be the "first' African American First Lady. Of course Jean Fraud Kerry didn't win--so there is that. We had to wait for Michelle Obama.
who's more African American?
Mamdani? or Elon Musk?
no WAIT!
who's more African American?
Mamdani? or Teresa Heinz Kerry?
Freder -
I think my hunch was correct.
Obama didn't get into Columbia either.
Or they'd show us his transcripts.
Category on application:
"Black non-Hispanic"
The GOP should create a Bill ending RACISM on applications.
I would like it if on at least some of the forms I have to fill out, one of the options was “This is an exercise in colonial tickboxing and I decline to tick any of these boxes”.
"but he didn't lie"
Really? If you know that another party will take a different position based on info supplied by you which you know is not factually correct as understood (in terms of American culture & college applications, African-American means black), then you have lied/deceived.
"Because American categories do not accommodate multiple truths...."
HAHAHAHAHAHA! No, Americans recognize racial bullshit when we see it.
Mad libs.
In the part of a federal equal-opportunity form where Randy would simply check a box labeled CAUCASIAN, Kia would have to attach multiple sheets on which her family tree would be ramified backwards through time ten or twelve generations until reaching ancestors who could actually be pegged to one specific ethnic group without glossing anything over, and those ethnic groups would be intimidatingly hip ones—not Swedes, let’s say, but Lapps, and not Chinese but Hakka, and not Spanish but Basque. Instead of doing this, on her job app for Epiphyte she simply checked “other” and then wrote in TRANS-ETHNIC. In fact, Kia is trans-just about every system of human categorization, and what she isn’t trans- she is post-.
From Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
John Henry
On college forms - I agree with the Times of India. It's a relic of Colonialism.
On hospital or medical forms - It might be important to reveal ethnic background(s) - for medical reasons. So - perhaps remove the lame list of Americanized check-boxes... and
replace with a optional line item question where a patient can write-in any ethic background(s). Considering The US is a melting pot beyond Hispanic/Black/Asian etc... that might be a better and more accurate.
Isn't this easily solved: remove racial breakdowns questions from all applications. Illegal to discriminate, by law and reaffirmed by SCOTUS. Why make decisions based on subjective self-applied categories? Why do we use a classification system created 250 years ago to arbitrarily separate people. Perhaps police can use a pain chart type approach-"the perp was a 4 on the color chart with pink hair".
While a lawyerly determination of lying may be necessary in a court of law, it needn't pertain outside the courtroom. Everybody knows lying when they see it.
Nobody thinks "African-American" means anybody who was born in Africa and became a United States citizen
That's the definition of African American. These kind of forms don't have a box called "Black/Brown Skin but not born in USA of slave parents".
You'd think this sort of nonsense would cause whites to go "Why the hell are we still doing this crap in 2025?"
But evidently not. Instead, it causes some white to write Democrats are cheaters. Good luck with anyone caring!
For all her Trans-ethnicity Kia was not transsexual. This was 1996 or so
John Henry
Yeah, and I’m Black Irish…
I want to know when this game, of dividing people by race to offer advantages and negatives based on the race they were categorized, will end. I no longer fill out demographic polls. I’m tired of their racist heritage and perpetuation. It is garbage.
And we're not going to stop tracking people by race, because that's the only way businesses and Government agencies can prove they aren't discriminating. And because of 1 of our 700 unelected district judges would immediately claim that not tracking people by race was "Unconstitional".
IRC, some Federal judge rule the Michagan referendum banning affirmative action by race and requiring colorblind admissions etc. was racist and therefore unconstitutional.
We've been doing this since the early 70s and we're not stopping.
South Asians had to lobby not to be classified as White (as Middle Easterners and North Africans have been lobbying in recent years). While Asians may not benefit from preferential college admissions, there are other perks to being classified as a racial minority.
Global Pepsico doesn't want to have its chief be a boring old white man, so they pick a South Asian woman (and now an old white man, but a Spaniard, so Hispanic literally, if not in some people's eyes).
"Cultural explanations" are still relevant. High caste Indians (and recent African immigrants) have had different "cultural" backgrounds from sharecroppers and ghetto residents. Some South Asians whose families have been privileged for millennia have benefited from our throwing the old straight white males overboard.
I have written it many times- the solution to race categorization is for everyone to simply check the African-American box. You end this system by openly mocking it and making it useless.
And using the Left's own argument, it isn't even a lie for a white guy from Wisconsin to check the African-American box since the science tells us all of us can trace our ancestry to....wait for it.....Africa.
Some state rep in Idaho stood on her tribe’s golf course while lecturing us that natives and the Scottish were connected through golf as fellow tribesmen- we welcome all tribes! Yeah. sounds like they hired the same skanky lawyer redefining conjunctions…
I thought NYT etc. wouldn't publish based on hacked material. I didn't RTA so maybe they addressed that.
Yancey 10:31 - I like your idea - but I would guess most people, young people - would not feel comfortable doing that.
So it depends on what the meaning of "or" is.
Shades of Blll Clinton! Lawyers “too clever by half” trying to define (or redefine) simple two-letter words.
Yes, if we reward this ballsy reinterpretation of language we need to allow it from everyone, otherwise the people selecting are just bigots, without any other flattering definition allowed…
Yancey nails it. All homo sapiens are descended from African progenitors. And of course, the higher education community has insisted for the last 40 years that race does not exist, except as a social construct of colonial powers, even as it created a system that relied upon white and Asian applicants to identify themselves honestly according to that racial group classification. Game theory teaches that the only rational way to respond to unfair rules is to embrace the unfairness.
Good for a laugh are the stupid journalists who refer to blacks from other nations as “African American.” Morgan Freeman had a better idea until his lucidity was reduced by Obama’s ascension: “Let’s just stop talking about race.”
Mamdani should be provoking concern other than this petty bullshit.
Mamdani didn’t become a US citizen until 2018. So he wasn’t an African American unless American means green card holder
josephbleau: "It is not very smart to claim to be black when your father is a prof at the school and everyone knows neither he nor his wife are black by definition of race"
Was Mamdani rejected because Columbia knew he was lying, and admitting someone who so obviously tried to game their racism was too much even for them?
Mamdani was just gaming the college admission system. He's a communist know nothing, but this issue is a red herring. College applicants do it all the time -- find an ancestor from a minority background and claim it on the form. The beauty of it is that it is a true answer for the question asked. A college room mate applying to law schools had an Argentinian father. He had never claimed Hispanic ancestry, and asked law schools (Michigan for one) if it were appropriate to claim Hispanic status. Every school said yes -- EVERY school! And of course as we get more mixed -- both race and ethnicity -- the question of ancestry gets more complex and vague.
And yes, Musk can truthfully say he is African American. Of course, he has none of the characteristics of what we think of as African American, but that is NOT what they ask. So . . . ask the question that gets the information you want. Don't whine when you get a true answer to a bad question.
Agreeing with Peachy at 10:18
"On hospital or medical forms - It might be important to reveal ethnic background(s) - for medical reasons."
Other than medical/genetic reasons....which are very important to know to prescribe or avoid treatments......there is zero need to classify people by racial categories.
The classification check boxes are ridiculous anyway. Take is Hispanic for example.On hospital or medical forms - It might be important to reveal ethnic background(s) - for medical reasons.
The artificial categories can be extremely misleading.
Hispanic?? It can be anything. Mexican=Native Indian/Mestizo...OR......Spanish from European heritage..... OR.....Argentinian Italian..... or........ Brazilian Portuguese as my in-law relatives are. OR ......of Irish descent as Che Guevara was.
So confusing.....and unnecessary.
@hombre I saw an interview once during the Olympics, and a US reporter asked a British black medalist how it felt to be the first British African-American to medal. The athlete looked at her like she had 12 heads and had to explain why he was not African-American. Heh.
ot:
This is what Kamala has to say to her devoted leftist minions on July 4th.
We must never forget how horrible we are! Happy 4th
Another challenge that is raised in light of the Times of India article is the tendency to flatten all cultural/social experiences outside of the US. If we were to engage in the kind of complexity of geography that the Times seems to want, should we not also then seek insights about the regional social status of an immigrant. There's a lot of, for instance, Hispanic academics who come from almost entirely Spanish conquistador lineage, yet because they have a Hispanic last name are posing as voices for the indigenous oppressed. Having been the cause of the oppression in their forebears now they gain privilege by taking up their current US causes. India is among the most rigidly caste oriented societies, so for someone to say they're from India or an Indian-American tells us nothing. Are they Dalit or Brahmin background? Are they coming from oppression to seek freedom or coming from being the oppressor to take advantage of our narrow colonial categories to enhance their status even more, a oppressor in India and a receiver of victim privilege in our more guilt-oriented culture.
"Mad-manny is down with the struggle."
He did an interview with a prominent African-American where he claimed he was an Indian-Ugandan, not African-American.
Who did the interview? Crackhead Barney.
Yeah, I'd say Mamdani is one with the brothers ... er ... sistas.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DH5_23WOB6O/
I think this is a fake controversy created by Mamdani to get the right talking about his race. This all benefits him tremendously with Dem voters, which is the party he's trying to become a leader of right now. They want another Obama type candidate to fall in love with. Making it about his race plays into the narrative that the right is racist which Dem voters lap up like cream.
It also distracts his critics from talking about his ideology. It's his ideas and prescriptions that are the problem, not his color.
A nice clip of Kamala/Walz and Mad-mannie's voters.
Asian-American
Fairness to applicants without the guts to interpret the form in their favor
----------
Guts?? lololol
Spoken like a pampered white woman who owes her success to playing the loopholes and playing the fools who will grant her one...
Silly bunny, those days are done.
Ambiguous affiliations.
How come that white professor NCAA lady who passed successfully as black was not applauded but shamed when she tried to pull the same scam? Does it only work for the fellas with you ann? Were you proud of Lizzy Warren when she had the guts to claim a privilege she never really paid for nor did her ancestors?
You silly white ladies. You really deserve the America you've helped to create.
Hacked data supposedly reveals that Mamdani was coded as "Black Non-Hispanic" by Columbia. A conclusion that was drawn was that Mamdani had the racial advantage and a parent on the faculty but was still rejected by Columbia, so his grades and test scores must have been horrible. That could be true, or he may just have chosen not to go there. It's all murky.
About Obama's Columbia grades -- we get to see politicians' grades either because they're part of a public record (John Kerry, John McCain) or because someone illegally leaked them (George W. Bush). It's not standard procedure for politicians to make their grades public. There's no advantage for them to do so -- either the grades are bad and the politician is stupid or they're good and the politician is elitist and boastful -- and they resent people trying to force their hand in such matters.
"While Mr. Mamdani was not a target of the hack, the information about him was included in a database of millions of student applications to Columbia going back decades."
Say, I know of another guy whose application to Columbia was questioned. This should clear that up.
the impossibility of conveying ancestral history, racial experience, birthplace, migration, expulsion, diaspora, and faith into two or three colonial tick-boxes....
If the writer had left out "colonial," and perhaps added "personal experience" to the list of factors that the tick-boxes fail to convey, it seems to me that this would be a pretty good statement of why so many of us on the right vehemently disagree with identity politics.
Mandani is an African American Person of Color-X.
So, sneaky but not a cheat?
Lazarus--that may be correct--but Obama was being sold politically as being extremely brilliant, and as being a top-tier constitutional scholar who became president of the Harvard Law Review on merit. Legitimate questions about the accuracy of those claims made inquiries into his academic performance legitimate.
All humans are African, so I wonder if you could make that argument and win. The only difference is how far back you go, and I never saw that delineated.
Nobody ever lies and says they are White on these applications, which exposes the lie of "White privilege", at least in these type of situations, and if you only have advantages in some areas, but negatives in others, can you even say White privilege exists in a general sense?
I had great privilege as a member of an ambitious working class family that had disdain for sloth and the greatest respect for work, but that's not a White thing.
I'm naturalized American of indigenous Pangaean heritage.
Mamdani is as African-American as Elon Musk.
I remember years back the internet astir over a middle school boy who had emigrated to the US from his birth place in Sub-Saharan Africa selecting 'African-American' on some form as he was racially white.
But who could condemn Mamdani making such a claim on an application to Columbia. After all, his father is only a professor at Columbia and so steeped in the racial-identity politics of the cesspool.
Mamdani's mother and father were Aryans or white, not Asian in racial terms. They belonged to Indo-Aryan subgroups - the Punjabi Sikhs and the Gujarati Muslims. Culturally they are well-off upper-class Americans. The only honest description of their son would be White American, which he is culturally and racially. But being a true white American of his time and place - he is an East Coast Priv - he is one of those seeking advantage by cultural appropriation of minority status like Elizabeth Warren.
Mamdani is an example of how racial classifications really mean very little. The same was true of Kamala Harris whose father was African-Ulster Irish and whose mother was Tamil. Barack Obama was African-White. - like Elon Musk? At one time racial and cultural classifications were closely aligned or rather, the eugenicists who developed the classifications, asserted so. It was never true and we should drop the classifications and look beyond them at the people. Now, looking at Mamdani we see a Fantasy Communist running for Fantasy Mayor of an important city which he will play with like a rich kid with an expensive car, harming people while drunk and getting bailed out by Daddy Minority Status.
If Columbia really did reject his application, then his SAT scores must have been in the 400s. In other words, he is as dumb as a fence post.
If Uganda has "birthright citizenship," Mamdani can claim to be African with no argument from me. Otherwise, it is as if being born in Italy of Finnish or Belgian parents made one Italian.
Maybe if the left hadn't polluted the term, there'd be a clearer understanding.
Refer to a black person from Great Britain as African-American and see what type of response you get.
The Common Data Set that many colleges publish puts the racial breakdown of the freshman class and the whole school at the beginning of the document. It's that important to somebody.
I couldn't find one for Columbia for 2010, but the oldest I could find, 2021, showed their admitted SAT scores were ALL quite high, none below 1400--but only 40% submitted them. Bowdoin's were lower but still respectable: 1310/1500 25th/75th %iles.
He had lived here long enough to know the meaning of the term African-American. The mystery isn't whether he lied to take advantage (he did), but why he wasn't accepted with indications of high school achievement and a father on the faculty. Perhaps they scrutinized the application and learned he wasn't one bit black or African-American because his parents were well-known. In any case, this is not irrelevant regarding his issues: ending ethnic and racial privileges, DEI, and affirmative action is central to the current populist Trump movement and widely approved among Americans.
If he's claiming to be Black and getting rejected from these schools, he's probably a dummy.
By the time Mandami was applying to college, his mother had directed more than a dozen films, some quite famous, probably taught at Columbia. His father was a professor there. There was also a lot of discontent by real African-Americans complaining that "their" slots were being filled by foreign blacks. A wealthy, foreign-born Indian using that ploy probably pissed someone off. And he is wealthy. You have to be wealthy or poor or really hate your decent parents to be a commie these days.
When Nikki Haley was first running for governor of South Carolina, the head of the Democratic party in SC, Dick Harpootlian, (his real name) criticized her for having once listed her race on a form as white when her other choices were black or asian. That was way back in time when apparently it was an advantage to be a white politician in America. Have things improved in recent times? I wonder.
This is an issue that breaks sharply across generational lines. For some reason Boomers will defend fake race- or ethnicity-claims like Elizabeth Warren's fraudulently asserting that she was "Native American," almost always using the argument that the university got what it wanted (on-paper "diversity") and the scammer got what she wanted (a job at Harvard). I don't know why the point that this mutual benefit was at the expense of equally or better-qualified white AND 'diverse' applicants always gets ignored or hand-waved away, but it does.*
GenX people, on the other hand, tend to be particularly disgusted by Warren, probably because many of us briefly considered being a dishonest weasel like her but then didn't. My 'family lore' said that I was 1/32 Native American (Leni Lenape), but despite the awful job market for professors, I didn't check the box because I had never been discriminated against for being part Native American, and I did not bring a "Native American perspective" (whatever that is) to a university.
For being honest I--and all the other GenX 'white' people with distant Native American, or Hispanic, or Black ancestors--were disadvantaged vis a vis Warren and others like her who fraudulently exploited the system.
* Ann has multiple times shown that she recognizes that "casting-couch" quid-pro-quo sexual harassment is wrong even if both partners accept, even welcome it because of the harm done to all the other people who applied for the job but weren't sleeping with the casting director.
Similarly, fraudulent box-checking may mutually benefit both the university and the applicant, but it harms all the other applicants who did not play the corrupt game.
Calling the categories "relics of colonialism" is pretty bogus. They are relics of American racial politics--specifically, the racial politics of the ethnic coalition of the Democratic party the final third of the twentieth century. The "Hispanic or Latino" category, for example, makes zero logical sense because it can include people from Spain whose ancestors never set foot in the Americas, but someone from the same extended family, who happens to have been born on the 100 yards across the border between Spain and France, is just "white."
They are indeed relics of US racial politics. Cant blame the British for that. We had to face this in college apps too. My wife and I appear entirely "white", we have both been assumed to be Italian as our Spanish last names can be ambiguous. I am of mostly Spanish descent though born in Asia, and my wifes father was from Mexico. The kids look "white" in every way. So when presented with the "hispanic" college application box the kids response was ... diverse. They got some "hispanic" financial aid offers from some (probably would have neen zapped by the family income) but the idea of them showing up where the college student groups were expecting someone from East LA... Thankfully that was not an issue at the time at University of California where they all went, no loans or financial aid.
If I recall correctly the "hispanic" box in most such documents is not meant for those born in Spain (the European country) proper. Its not been a big issue as there have been very few immigrants to the US directly from Spain, historically or recently.
The "Hispanic" box was not meant for white people born and raised and educated in Spain, which is why various entities changed it to "Latino/a/x/eieio" for another of those "mutually beneficial" arrangements: administrators get to bump up their numbers; favored faculty/students get extra preferences, and those who are harmed by the benefits and preferences given to others are invisible.
wildswan said...
“Mamdani's mother and father were Aryans or white, not Asian in racial terms. They belonged to Indo-Aryan subgroups - the Punjabi Sikhs and the Gujarati Muslims. Culturally they are well-off upper-class Americans. The only honest description of their son would be White American, which he is culturally and racially. But being a true white American of his time and place - he is an East Coast Priv - he is one of those seeking advantage by cultural appropriation of minority status like Elizabeth Warren.”
Yup, he’s a white guy.
It’s summer. At least half of my extended family is darker than Mamdani right now. And not just the Mediterranean side; the Frank-German side, too.
Southern Pessimist said...
“When Nikki Haley was first running for governor of South Carolina, the head of the Democratic party in SC, Dick Harpootlian, (his real name) criticized her for having once listed her race on a form as white when her other choices were black or asian. That was way back in time when apparently it was an advantage to be a white politician in America.”
Or maybe it was because a white skinned Caucasian thought that she should check the box the other white skinned Caucasians should check.
Buwaya and Drout, ref Spaniards not being Hispanics/Latinos: but weirdly, 100% Welsh Argentinians can be. So can my college friend the blue-eyed blond-haired Cuban Jew with a Lotharingian surname.
Most Latin American countries give expedited citizenship to Spaniards, though, so if someone had a diabolical plot to give their kid a college admissions advantage, they could migrate to, say, Paraguay, then here.
RR
JSM
He clearly wasn't answering in good faith -- you can argue that he's "technically" correct in claiming to be African American (the same argument Elon Musk could make), but that certainly wasn't what the admissions office was looking for. But I can't really fault him here. The university didn't deserve good faith cooperation in their efforts to discriminate among applicants on the basis of race. He probably didn't intend it as such -- in fact, I am certain he didn't based on his subsequent statements -- but it was a healthy bit of civil disobedience against the school's immoral devotion to race discrimination.
I like to boil things down to 1 race, 2 genders, much tribalism.
Mr. Dreamy is an Indian-Ugandan. Obviously.
Indians, especially Muslims, have a long history as a trading people in East Africa, similar to the Lebanese in West Africa. Indians in apartheid South African were "coloured" as caste below the whites but above Africans.
Mamdani's people were treated very badly by the Amin[?] government, almost like a pogrom and ejected from Uganda. He should use his truth to burnish his real intersectional creds. He could code switch to talk like a subcontinent call center dude. Rizz.
you think it's cute if elon declares he's african american?
If I were him in my college-applicant days I would have checked the African American box just to make their system worthless. I am a white guy with roots in seven northern European countries. One is the Netherlands, which was the Spanish Netherlands for a century or more. The definition of Hispanic is so loose that I think my relationship to the Spanish King qualifies.
This whole "African-American" argument has been a very successful red herring dragged across the trail, because he didn't check any "African-American" box: he checked "Black, not Hispanic." So he's just a flat-out liar rather than a word-games weasel.
We've seen over the last decades occasional examples of television announcers (most especially during the Olympic Games) describe Black athletes (who are not from the United States) as African-American. We laugh at that, but it's understandable. Because to a large degree we've been trained not to say Black.
For the last couple months I've watched several videos on YouTube about Black Fatigue. The videos are by African-Americans who consistently use the term Black. Might be an example of "members of this Group can use this word, otherwise don't".
Milwaukee guy, Mandami's father lived in Uganda. Mandami lived posh, mainly in South Africa and was in the states by age seven. African-American is a designation of that form under race, not place of origin. His race is SE Asian Indian. The question was: "What is your race?" Not "Where were you born?" Why so many efforts to justify a deception?
Yansie, I've been saying this for years. I'd like it to be 100%. But imagine the number of heads exploding if, during the next census, some 60% of respondents put down African American.
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