We're also told:
Even calling Pope Leo “American” has bothered those Latin Americans who resent the use of the word to describe someone from the United States, because they see it as a form of imperialism. They think “American” should apply to anyone from the entire continent — that is, from North, Central or South America.
Isn't that 2 "continents" — North America and South America? Central America is not a continent. It's part of North America, though I've heard educated Americans deny it. And I mean to say Americans for United Statesians, because we don't say "United Statesians." There's the Esperanto "Usonians." There's "Yankees." These are never going to happen. We don't have another word for saying who we are. Show a little empathy for our plight. Read the Wikipedia article "Demonyms for the United States." It's been a problem all along.
But the NYT writes "the entire continent — that is, from North, Central or South America," and maybe that means it has adopted the theory that the whole landmass — south and north (and central) — is one continent. I don't think the NYT has adopted that nomenclature. And I wonder if Trump would like it. He looks at a map and insists that it's some kind of manifest destiny that Canada should be part of the U.S. And he came up with Gulf of America. And if you want to say it's one continent because we're all here on one tectonic system, remember who's on our plate: Greenland. The Trumpian dinner is served!
పోస్ట్లు
76 కామెంట్లు:
Wait. "Tectonic system"? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........
How many Catholics in the world? 1000 million? 2000 million? But the NYT's somehow finds 6 to tell us what the NYT's wants us to hear.
And that ol' trope about "Latinos" upset over "Estados Unidos" appropriating the word "American" had been mentioned by Leftist Americans (Not Hispanics) for 50 years. No one gives a damn.
These "this is what people around the world think/say" are always fake. And pointless. But they make good propaganda.
Canadians commonly used North American to refer to Canadian and US. It shows the delicacy of Canadian national identity that they took Trump's 51st state trolling to heart.
Has anyone in the MSM done any actual Goddamn Reporting and found out if the Pope ever renounced his USA citizenship? And how many countries he's a citizen of?
To think of this pope as an American is to think of Barack Hussein Obama as an American. The definition can be stretched only so far, but I suppose its elasticity depends on the use to which the individual wishes to put it.
The Pope is a White Sox fan. He's 100% an American.
"The United States was at war with America; therefore The United States had always been at war with America"... or something.
How about a compromise. The Americas (PLURAL) comprises the entire tectonic system. And America (SINGULAR) refers to The Unites States alone.
Central America is an isthmus, a difficult word to pronounce
That first homily had some eyebrow raising quotes:
“today, too, there are many settings in which Jesus, although appreciated as a man, is reduced to a kind of charismatic leader or superman. This is true not only among non-believers but also among many baptized Christians, who thus end up living, at this level, in a state of practical atheism.”
“A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society.”
Leo lamented that the Christian faith in many parts of the world is “considered absurd,” mocked or opposed in the face of temptations such as money, success and power.
Messages likely not appreciated by the MAGA faithful.
South America can call itself Vespuccia
"We feel threatened by them."
Not threatened enough, apparently.
I'm old enough to remember the "dual loyalties" take on JFK. At least Pope Leo Quatorze has never sworn an oath to the United Statesian Constitution (that I am aware of).
It is so hard being a US citizen. We are envied, yet detested. Even by our friends.
So if American should apply to anyone from the entire continent then they have no problem with the Gulf of America?
English-speaking countries hold that there are 7 continents, including North and South America, and "America" by itself always refers to our own country.
In Spanish-speaking countries, there are only 6 separate continents, one of which is "America", and all of whose inhabitants are entitled to use the name "americano" to describe themselves, in the same way that a Frenchman or Greek can describe himself as "European".
I use "estadounidense" instead of "americano" to describe myself when speaking Spanish, because that is the standard in that language, but I refuse to let Spanish-speaking foreigners dictate the endonym we use when speaking English.
That goes quadruple when it's smug white American leftists sneering that "America is a continent, not a country".
… Latin Americans who resent the use of the word to describe someone from the United States, because they see it as a form of imperialism.
Tough.
When I spent a summer in Guatemala as an exchange student, I heard "estadounidense," but more often I heard "gringo." No me importa.
This is the reason that Trump's renaming of the Gulf of America was such a nice bit of verbal jiu-jitsu against the yanqui-hating leftists of Latin America. If it's all one continent, as they say, what is its defining geographical feature? Obviously, this enormous sea that divides the two main landmasses. So why should one country get to claim the right to name it for itself?
Kak, I don't understand your 11:34 comment. What about the "MAGA faithful" suggests to you that they'd disagree with any of what the Pope said there?
Kak-A-Phony quoted:
"“A lack of faith is often tragically accompanied by the loss of meaning in life, the neglect of mercy, appalling violations of human dignity, the crisis of the family and so many other wounds that afflict our society.”"
Loss of meaning of life: The They/Them green hair/ Tesla Molotov Cocktail MSNBC watching contingent.
Neglect of Mercy: Leftists embrace media lies, MSNBC toxicity and lies, Fauci's lies, Biden's lies, and Dog torture... and leftist embraced mass child abuse, mass sex abuse as they support Biden's open borders. etc..
No mercy for the unborn
No Mercy for Beagles being tortured for democrat party pocket stuffing.
Appalling violations of human dignity: See above
"Crisis of the Family: Communist baseline is the destruction of the family. Modern Democratics are Soros-Communist Progressives.
We are Columbians!
He holds dual citizenship - US and Peru. His mother was from Peru. He has spent most of his adult life in Peru or Rome. It is more accurate to say he is the first Peruvian Pope. He is a member of the group of Cardinals appointed by Francis. He is a globalist who has stated in the past that that sovereignty of countries is not a good thing.
It would pay to wait and see how he behaves as Pope before making conclusions.
"isthmus, a difficult word to pronounce"
Having grown up in Madison, I've never had a problem with "isthmus".
The continental divide I've never bought is Europe and Asia.
Messages likely not appreciated by the MAGA faithful.
What delusion is the kakistophage laboring under now? I am basically a Christian Deist, but I frequently attend church with my pious Roman Catholic wife. And I am well to the right side of even the MAGA movement. Nothing in this homily disturbs me, and I read the entire transcript.
If anything, I think it reflects more on the tendency of the aggressively anti-religious Left to replace their faith in the Eternal with faith in charismatic but fallible humans. Look at the way they worshipped the "Lightbringer", Barack Obama.
Let me give you the entire passage that the kakistophage abbreviated to mislead you. What the Holy Father actually said is, "Even today, there are many settings in which the Christian faith is considered absurd, meant for the weak and unintelligent. Settings where other securities are preferred, like technology, money, success, power, or pleasure. These are contexts where it is not easy to preach the Gospel and bear witness to its truth, where believers are mocked, opposed, despised or at best tolerated and pitied. Yet, precisely for this reason, they are the places where our missionary outreach is desperately needed."
If that doesn't describe the Left to a tee, I don't know what does.
@Begley -- Yes! You're born and raised in Chicago, you're an American. End of story.
@Kak -- Good grief. Your Venn diagram has a lot more overlap than you think.
He holds dual citizenship - US and Peru.
Correct. He was naturalized in Peru relatively late in life, like within the past ten or fifteen years.
His mother was from Peru.
False. She was from New Orleans, and her father's family was of Spanish descent.
Big Mike said...
… Latin Americans who resent the use of the word to describe someone from the United States, because they see it as a form of imperialism.
Tough.
5/10/25, 11:41 AM
But think about how happy Trump made those people feel when he renamed the gulf to Gulf of America. They must have really appreciated his inclusiveness. Right?
"What delusion is the kakistophage laboring under now?"
Cut him some slack. Relentless disdain is challenging.
I think his election to the Papacy is rather a sly, subversive move on the part of the College of Cardinals.
"According to theWashington Post’s exit poll, Trump won the national Catholic vote by a 15-point margin: 56% to 41%. This shows a much larger victory for Trump among Catholic voters than the Post’s 2020 exit polls, which showed Trump with only a five-point lead above President Joe Biden, 52% to 47%."
I suspect Leo will prove a real thorn in the side to this unhinged MAGA cultural revolution.
Let's not forget Los "Estados. Unidos Mexican" or the "united states of Brazil" (1889-1930)
Both pretend to be made up of "states" ( though neither is. Not by the legal, diplomatic or traditional definition of the word.
And unlike the United States of America use. (our states are sovereign, not subordinate)
John Henry
"Even calling Pope Leo “American” has bothered those Latin Americans who resent the use of the word to describe someone from the United States"
I would be surprised if the percentage of Latin Americans who feel this way is over 1%. Though I do feel lots of Latin Americans feel overshadowed by America, I doubt the use of American as a demonym actually bothers many.
FRED: We can’t even call ourselves Americans. They love to correct you, saying, ‘South Americans are Americans too.’ I mean, give me a break.
MONTSERRAT: ‘Norteamericano’ is the correct term.
FRED: But that makes no distinction between us or Canadians. ‘Yankee’ and ‘gringo’ are obviously pejorative, but it’s the standard dictionary term that’s the most insulting of all – ‘Estadounidense.’ Dense. D-E-N-S-E. It’s the same spelling – dense, thick, stupid. Every time you hear it, Estadouni- dense dense dense. It’s like a direct slap in the face. It’s incredible.
MONTSERRAT: I think you are too sensitive.
FRED: Oh great! Now we’re too sensitive!
--Whit Stillman, "Barcelona"
Latinos have nicknamed him "Daddy Yankee" after the rapper.
"Wait. "Tectonic system"? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........."
It's not one tectonic plate. I didn't make up the term "tectonic system," but I did get it from Grok.
I believe Bob XIV's mother's parents were from Louisiana, and of mixed-race origin. His father's people were Italian and French. The choice of an EEUU-Perú dual citizen was a clever compromise by the cardinals, just as the choice of Francis, an Argentinian of Italian descent, was. A South American North American for a European South American.
What does "100% American" mean now? Does it mean anything? One could get away with calling Pope Bob 100% American because he was a Baby Boomer, and "American" still had a single meaning back then. Today, not so much.
There are plenty of other English words that have a wider and a narrower meaning, or two overlapping meanings, and often require clarification. Ho hum. Another First World problem.
'Classical' and 'Classics' have two each. When you say 'classical music', do you mean Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and their contemporaries? Or do you mean all 'serious' music from Gregorian Chant and Hildegard von Bingen up to Arvo Pärt? Are you talking about half a century, or a whole millennium and more?
When you say you like to read 'the classics', do you mean 'Great Books' from all cultures and all ages, or do you mean things written in ancient Greek and Latin? Sophocles and Plato are both, but Shakespeare and Tolstoi are only the former, while Silius Italicus ("the longest and worst of the Roman epics") is only the latter. So what? It just means we sometimes have to clarify. The same goes for 'American'.
It does help to be aware of the broader meaning. Some years ago, a right-of-center Nicaraguan leader addressed a D.C. audience as "my fellow Americans" and a lot of left-wing journalists demonstrated their ignorance by asking if he'd taken out citizenship, yuk yuk.
I suspect Leo will prove a real thorn in the side to this unhinged MAGA cultural revolution.
So far we have learned that he is pro-life, does not support the pretense that mutilated mentally-ill men are actually women, considers homosexuality to be disordered and against God’s plan for humanity, and does not support the ordination of women, even as deacons.
He is definitely on the side of the poor and downtrodden, and criticized the Trump administration for its immigration policies, but I’d be surprised to hear anything different from a Catholic clergyman. Even Benedict and the great St. John Paul II had similar views.
His support for the climate-change swindle is problematic, but so far, I don’t think he is a carbon copy of Bergoglio. Even his use of the ornate red stole for his first Urbi et Orbi is a sign that he is much more of a traditionalist than Francis.
I told everyone that many in the media want to bury the concept of "an American Pope" in favor of an ethnic Pope.
Ethnic Spring! What is it good for? Diversity (e.g. racism) was frowned upon. NOW, it's a do or DEI situation. A couplet is "=" couple. Mengele was a mendacious, empathetic therapeutic expression. Abortion of a human life was adjudicated under homicide laws, earlier under Loving. A Vaccine was not a vaxxxine a jab a non-sterilizing choice. A Kleptocracy is a Democracy with progressive principals. Hopelessly changing. We didn't conceive the conflagration...
The wordplay on "plate" deserves recognition.
I've been enjoying Tom Hanks on Sundays and thinking just Americas.
Today, our country’s name is differentiated by the words “United States of”. If all or most of the States in South America became united, we’d have a real problem, and they’d have a point. Til then, let’s just roll with the status quo, I say.
ah barcelona and specially Montserrat, tushka bergen who was unappreciated in hollywood,
when mexico was a colony of spain, for three centuries they probably had similar gripes,
yes fred doesn't get, the ense is from sound as in Canadian,
I am trying to find reason here. Let's see:
Greenland is the world's largest island that is not a continent, covering an area of about 836,330 square miles. It is located between the Arctic and Atlantic Oceans and is primarily covered by an ice cap.
The Gulf of Mexico has been known by that name since the 1550s, derived from the term "Mexica," which refers to the Aztecs. But we need not ask The Don about the Aztecs because "he doesn't know."
North and South America are continents supposedly separated by the isthmus of Panama but Panama is really a land bridge between two continents. Which brings about the questionable definition of downtown Madison as an isthmus, when in fact it simply separates two large lakes.
Esperanto "Usonians?" Nobody speaks Esperanto unless we borrow the term from Frank Lloyd Wright designs.
Why are we Americans? Simply because we live in the United States of America. Directional names and hyphonated "double-barrelled" names are available to those who prefer smaller groupings. It would be surprising to hear citizenry from Brazil, Canada or Mexico, for example, identifying with the singular word "American" or "America."
… What if the Pope was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make His way home?
… Just tryin' to make His way home?
Like a holy rolling stone?
Back up to Heaven all alone
Just tryin' to make His way home?
… Nobody callin' on the phone
'Cept for the Pope, maybe in Rome
Jihad is complete! Now even Catholics are Hallal.
There should be a truly American pope, and that American pope should be Andrew Dice Clay.
The great thing about the plate idea isn't that we get Greenland-- it's that we get rid of LA.
Whew. It won’t be necessary for NYT to trash him after all.
to be trashed by the Times is a badge of honor,
VATICAN CITY—Pope Leo XIV celebrated his first Mass as pontiff in the Sistine Chapel on Friday, stressing the importance of missionary work in a world where many live “in a state of de facto atheism.”
Now let's here from Ron Prescott Reagan: “Hi, I’m Ron Reagan, an unabashed atheist. And I’m alarmed by the intrusions of religion into our secular government.” “That’s why I’m asking you to support the Freedom From Religion Foundation, the nation’s largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics working to keep state and church separate, just like our Founding Fathers intended.” ~“Ron Reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell.”
“ How many Catholics in the world? 1000 million? 2000 million?”
Actually 1.4 billion.
"They think “American” should apply to anyone from the entire continent" So, they're all cheering Trump on the Gulf of Mexico thing, right? More inclusive, for sure.
Oh thank God he's not just another Connecticut White guy.
Pope Bob--or Leo as he now calls himself spent most of his pastoral career in Peru--so the South Americans have a claim on him.
You know what else is party of the North American Plate? The Eastern end of Siberia - Chukotka and Magadan.
"We feel threatened by them. So it would’ve been a total disaster and a cold slap in the face if the pope had been full-on American."
So they can't handle the full 100%? Being American is truly awesome!
When The USA and Canada merge that will be an opportunity to adopt a new name that solves this problem of demonyms. The United States of America and Canada just won’t work and neither will the United States of North America.
Since the Saint Lawrence River now forms part of the border that will be unified, we could adopt a French spelling and have our new name be the United States of Laurence. Our demonym would be Laurentians.
In spite of being the young nation on the tectonic block, we were the first to coin our name 'The United States of America', so the rest of these nations, to whom such an inspired name did not occur, can pound sand and suck a pickle. The name has been claimed and 250 years has gone in to forging its brand. All Rights Reserved.
Who’s invading who, Torres-Hallal?!
We've been calling ourselves Americans since 1770s. We're going to keep on doing it. The Leftists can eat shit.
yeah seriously iman,
While not without influence the Pope has no real power, even in ostensibly Catholic nations. Political elites routinely tout what a Pope says, when it suits their purposes, but who then turn a deaf ear when the Pontiff's words do not. This observation holds true even in majority Catholic nations. Abortion, transsexualism, homosexuality, pornography, and really the entire Cultural Marxist agenda all came into being, albeit over time, despite the Catholic church's opposition. Leo XIV will be no exception.
I've seen so much nonsense written on these threads about Leo XVI over the last couple of days! good heavens. Anyway, I intended to stay out of 'em but I will point out, to all the dual-citizenship worriers, that according to the concordat (article VII) between the Holy See and Peru all bishops ('all archbishops and residential bishops') have to be Peruvian citizens i.e. I wouldn't read anything into Mons Prevost's supposed 'dual citizenship' beyond the satisfaction of a formal treaty requirement.
I think they meant "the entire hemisphere." But apparently nobody reads this stuff before it's printed any more.
This all argues that the decision to change the former Gulf Of Mexico to the current Gulf Of America makes more sense.
Pope Leo spent the vast majority of his life and most of his career in America. He spent less than nine years in South America. He's in his Sixties. He's an American citizen. He gained dual citizenship for just a few years. It's not good form to start out a Papacy with a boldfaced lie.
The Gulf of Mexico has been known by that name since the 1550s, derived from the term "Mexica," which refers to the Aztecs.
The use of "America" to refer to the continental land mass (North, South, or Central) is equally old, being first used on a map in 1507. "Mexico" was first used to refer to the Spanish colonial possessions in the general area of the current country, so the likely reason for the use of "Mexico" to name the body of water actually surrounded by said continental land mass was the Spanish colonies that bordered it. In addition to deadnaming the Gulf of America, people who insist on using "Gulf of Mexico" are paying homage to the Spanish subjugation of the natives of the Americas.
As Gilda Radner said, “It’s always something.”
The Gulf of America is completely surrounded by America of one flavor or another, including Mexico. It's the most appropriate and inclusive name for it. In fact, if leftists didn't hate Trump and America so much, it would be the woke choice.
pound sand and suck a pickle
I think that was a workout routine in Rocky 4.
We were the first independent country over here in the Americas, so we get the name.
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