"The Democrats always say message. Who hears a message?"
Trump's "message," according to Maher is "I'm me, I'm strong and I'm daddy." To Maher, the people are "like an animal, they're instinctive, like, I smell fear, or I smell alpha... and Democrats have to come up with an alpha, and it's not Tim Walz, and it's not Tim, the other Tim who ran... You know that you gotta appeal to people at a sort of post-civilization stage where we're kind of on a primal level. You just do. And Trump does it better than anybody."
Cuomo takes the cue. But he doesn't go with the idea that Trump is who he is. He says Trump figured out who the people hate and essentially said: "I know who you hate, and I know what you hate... and I hate them too, and I will make them pay." And Democrats hate Trump: "They just hate him. They do. So he can't even get shot and get compassion."
If Maher is right and Cuomo is wrong and Trump just is who he is and what he is is daddy, alpha, and the people respond by instinct, then what are the Democrats to do? Wait to be taken over and rearranged by some left-wing father figure? Or maybe a true Mother? If Cuomo is right, Democrats need only absorb something of the people's emotions and reflect them back convincingly enough. Neither man believes the people can become educated and rational. We're out here stewing in the "sort of post-civilization stage."
पोस्ट्स
८२ टिप्पण्या:
Maher sure isn't afraid to tell the Dems they are out in the wilderness.
Neither one has any sane policy prescriptions, then? Oh well, at least they are starting to realize that "messaging" is not what needs improving, thinking through problems and solving them is still a bridge too far apparently.
Maher is coping.
He knows that Trump is actually helping the Main Street American while his side was just pretending to.
Maher is at the point where he knows what the truth is but he has to swallow his pride to admit it.
AA : "If Cuomo is right, Democrats need only absorb something of the people's emotions and reflect them back convincingly enough. "
Sounds like the blank slate analogy used by the Lightbringer in 2008.
“I'm me, I'm strong and I'm daddy,” is precisely the needed message on both global and domestic sides. The re-assertion of the patriarchy is precisely what is needed.
ahem; Trump's message IS:
the Democrats have been f*cking YOU in the ass;
and they're not even using lube.
tell those Democrats; You're FIRED
THAT is Trump's message
Today's Democrat Party in one song.
I wonder whom Cuomo thinks the messenger should be.
For starters, how about just being sane? You know, there are only two sexes, let people speak freely, and don't spend money we don't have.
Bahaha.
Trump is loved for his zingers. Humor has to be honest to be good.
Dems should tell the truth. Just say they are cultural Marxists who favor open borders and the Green New Deal.
For starters, how about just being sane? You know, there are only two sexes, let people speak freely, and don't spend money we don't have.
This. Exactly this.
Also, these people who are Democrat mouthpieces don't seem to grasp how gravely they betrayed the American people by lying about Joe Biden's mental status.
The priority isn't even for Democrats, but for American globalists. They desperately need to stop the bleeding before
President Donald Trump undoes fifty years of malign neglect. Major budget cuts are made, which weakens NGOs, which weakens the media, which weakens globalist allies in the UK/ Canada, which weakens the Democrats, which weakens the NGOs. It's the kind of positive feedback cycle you normally never see in modern politics.
Both of these stooges are wrong, and the fact Democrats are stuck on narrative is why they are likely to get much weaker.
Democrats unite around an anti-Trump message.
If the message is, "Make America Shitty Again" or "America Last", what messenger is going to sell that?
A sane Democratic Party would embrace MAGA, but have a different approach to how to do that.
Evict illegal criminals, but let's be cautious about how it's done.
Tariffs were our idea, so glad you like it.
Graft and corruption are bad, but some of these programs can be saved.
Education is a charlie-foxtrot, let's send YUGE block grants to the states.
"They just hate him. They do. So he can't even get shot and get compassion." From the party of compassion. Their hate exposed their phoniness.
"the people respond by instinct, then what are the Democrats to do?" Not much. Trump's victory was significant but shallow. Trump-leaning Hispanics can easily switch back. Events and interests more than "instincts" determine outcomes. But giving up on the 80/20 issues and getting a non-Walzy national candidate would help. If the antisemites weren't so influential, Shapiro could be it.
Each side accuses the other of seeking a tyrant to solve the problems of an excess of democracy. Certain freedoms have to be limited, etc. Dems have perhaps not really believed in "one man" since JFK. Mother expands the welfare state, guided by Ph.Ds and lawyers. Orwell says the Ministry of Love is the most terrifying Ministry. Trump is at least making an honest attempt to call bullshit on the Dems.
The reasoning here reminds me parents or friends who have noticed that a young woman they care about has fallen for an unsuitable, reckless, or dangerous man, as some young women are wont to do. Having tried to talk her into some semblance of prudence, they throw up their hands and recognize she is making decisions she will pay for in the time to come, and right now there's nothing they can do about it. That, plus a whiff of "maybe if we introduced her to a similarly dangerous and reckless seeming young man but who isn't really, maybe that would work, since she seems to be taken by that type of person."
Mahr is right. Tim Walz is gay.
They lost me when they both agreed that both sides have their conspiracy theories, but the right side is worse. No acknowledgement that the right's conspiracy of yesterday is tomorrow's news.
I listened for a while after that, but they both have still not broken out of their blue bubble.
I'll think of whoever the Democrats nominate as a "true mother" -- though not in the way you meant it.
So far as winning goes, it's most often the man (or woman) and not the message that matters. Obama, Clinton, Carter, JFK. The message is most often, "I'll get you out of the mess the other side created," even if there isn't much of a mess.
For the Democrats, the candidate has to prevail over the little "messages" that the public overhears: mass illegal immigration, men in women's bathrooms and on women's teams, end oil now, white men bad. The official "message" - build back better from the bottom up and the inside out, a battle for the soul of America - is usually fatuous, flatulent nonsense. Where Biden and Harris failed was that they created the mess and couldn't promise to get us out of it, no matter how many times they told us they would "turn the page."
It’s about time America came to grips with its situation. This recalibration will be conducted in stages and we need to steel ourselves for what’s ahead.
It’s said that what can’t go on, won’t go on. The Democrats have no answers. That is as true as the day is long.
Sebastian said...
If the antisemites weren't so influential, Shapiro could be it.
4/7/25, 7:44 AM
Not in a million years. The success of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens means that being pro-Israel isn't even guaranteed among Republicans. I wouldn't bet on the shift being decisive in four years, but in eight?
To nominate Josh Shapiro while Chuck Schumer faces a serious primary would be the Democrats flipping off NAM immigrants, human rights lawyers, and college activists within their own party. I'm just surprised they aren't all calling it genocide yet.
"Dems have perhaps not really believed in "one man" since JFK. "
They had much faith in "Hope and Change" Obama. I think it's more that the Democrats and the bureaucracy have been together on the same path that LBJ created for them 60 years ago. They may challenge the Republicans, but they never challenged the permanent government and simply relied on the ratchet effect to give the federal government and bureaucracy more power.
I kept looking at the ash tray! You so rarely see big glass ashtrays today! I Liked it.
Jasmine Crockett as Alpha Dem Fem. Yeah, that the ticket.
The Democrats need to quit nominating women. We are not going to put a woman in charge of the Free World. We all know women. Even women don't like other women.
President of the United States is a man's job.
Have we not made that clear?
All the Democrats have, all the Democrats are is NOISE.
Demos-cracy Unburdened... message.
The Democrats need to get a grasp on reality first; that seems unlikely to happen
"Neither man believes the people can become educated and rational. "
And that's their problem, if your message is "you stupid, we smart" don't be surprised when people don't buy it.
The people in the Democrat party are losing to Trump because he is articulating something they cannot, and it is not hate. Trump is saying to the middle and working classes that they have legitimate concerns that neither party was addressing and in fact were actively working against those peoples best interests and that he is willing and able to address those issues. As for not understanding the issues, its not like the people in the Rust Belt can't look around their surroundings and see what out sourcing production has done to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-oTBtBWmdc
https://x.com/ExploresMr/status/1743678817338630411
The message from Democrats is going to be "stop the tariffs." It's one short sentence, promising specific action. Republicans can counter with cultural issues, but if the economy is bad at the midterms, cultural issues are going to recede in importance.
Also, Trump needs to be out there messaging on his own behalf. He needs to explain to the public the goals that his tariffs are supposed to accomplish. That one chart won't be enough; this requires a hard sell.
The Democrats try to service all the marginalized identity groups, and take hard line positions for each. The problem is that at a certain level these identity groups hate each other, so their message becomes toxic. Reparations for blacks - the hispanic group and white LGBQT groups are outraged. Gay rights, the blacks and catholic hispanics are outraged. Illegal immigrant voting, blacks are outraged. Free Palestine, the jews are outraged.
> Education is a charlie-foxtrot, let's send YUGE block grants to the states.
I keep seeing this type of suggestion, and it's a terrible idea. How about the federal government just not taxing that amount in the first place?
The deficit has turned septic. The tariffs are an incentive to resolve labor and environmental arbitrage. The tariffs are an incentive to cooperate in common causes (e.g. George "Fentanyl" Floyd syndrome, emigration reform). Economic accessibility is the probable remedy for normalization of abortive ideation and other dysfunctional choices that threaten the viability of our nation, the People, and our Posterity. The Kleptocracy, redistributive change schemes, wicked solutions, etc are not sustainable.
Two people with opinions that I often find of little value. With Maher, the news is when he finally recognizes a bias he’s held for years. Praise is due to someone who can learn the errors of their past, and Maher deserves that. Chris Cuomo doesn’t deserve that much.
I think what our host notices is the conceit both have for their audience, who they want to reach with a message. They fail to recognize we just got their message, and it is “we are gullible idiots that will fall for a well crafted message or messenger”. They don’t understand we have agency, and find them wanting in leadership, which is why we chose not to follow them. Them being the two of them, as well as democrats.
They are close… they recognize qualities that cognizant people would associate with leadership. Yet they know not the concept of being a leader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnN1a8nNCwA&t=18s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1e_C5Szfss
"The people are like an animal...". And, whatever specie Mahr happens to be is, oh so obviously, far superior.
He has moments of clarity, but just can't bring himself to connect the dots.
Feh.
"Free Palestine, the jews are outraged."
I think at this point its getting to be impossible to be Jewish and be a successful Democrat politician, the antisemitism on the left is to great.
First step is to accept that these millions of people you are talking about are people like you, not some lower primate group you are observing in the zoo. Actually a lot them are more intelligent and accomplished than you. Many created the things that you love and that support your life. What have you done for them, O great ones? Will you offer them your slyly crafted messages, like gourmet dog treats? That's your plan for intelligent humans?
The Democrats are stuck on politics as a messaging problem rather than accomplishing tangible goals that actually benefit the great unwashed masses.
In addition, the Democrats are stuck on an aging and highly corrupt leadership who has stifled the development of young people with great ideas.
Cuomo's remarks reminded me of Henry Kissinger's comment on Ukraine: "Demonization of Putin is not a policy, it is an alibi for the absence of one." Hillary, Biden and the Democrats' only message, "Trump is Hitler!" will morph into "Vance is Hitler" in 2028, because the Party realizes their core positions (DEI, Zero Carbon Emissions, Open Borders) are deeply unpopular.
They both seem to use the word "hate" as if both the Left and the Right are equally guilty of hatred. Nearly all the hate I see comes from the Left and it's not even close.
When the bus gets a flat, some people blame the driver, expect him to fix it alone, and then complain about the delay.
Many on the left operate from the assumption that they are the enlightened elite and that any opposition to them can, at best, be ascribed to idiots who are being misled by evil demagogues. So they can't argue, and they can't adjust their positions to align with the electorate.
That was fine when they controlled the messaging mediums, but in the 2nd quarter of the 21st century it means that, absent some serious changes, they may not be a viable national party in ten years.
Maher's basic message is, "tone it down guys, the rubes don't like it."
Democrats do have a message.
Hate, lies, Bullshit, Molotov cocktails, harassment, cover-ups, corruption, greed, and more lies.
Half the country is on to the grifting of the political class, and are mad as hell about it, and want it to stop. This has been so since the Tea Party tried to bring their anger over the grift to the attention of the polical class in a bipartisan manner and got shut down by both parties. The other half of the country is mad to have political grifting continue as they know it is their primary support. Until we get a few more percent of the citizenry mad and wanting the grift to stop, there will be Democrat problems with their message, as it is merely a cover to continue the grifting.
The corrupt Biden regime flew illegals, in the dead of night - all over the country.
The democratic party HAS a LONG GAME.
The 11+ million illegals they let IN. The 11+ million illegals, who are/were provided free hotel rooms, phones, money etc... are the left's plan for ultimate power.
Sure, Trump is deporting some criminal illegal gangs around the edges. Hopefully many others will self-deport. But many illegals are in trouble because they owe big money to their human trafficker.
Again - this is Corruptocrat long game.
There is a reason why COLORADO DEMOCRATS quietly signed a law giving drivers licenses to Illegals.
There is a REASON - Wisconsin somehow won voter ID. Voter ID requirements are popular with most Americans. 70-80% popular. Voter ID is popular, the democrats understand, and are planning and implementing their corrupt work-around. Here it is: Give illegals drivers licenses. (just watch – and they are going to do it under the radar)
The democrat party message is the bullshit that hides the truth.
*fixed*
Liberal/leftists always start with the assumption their polices and actions are perfect, if they lose its due to "marketing" or "the customer" being stupid or evil.
Why is that? Simple, the Liberal/left have an agenda and they want power to push it. They aren't interested in changing their agenda, and if they could by-pass "the people" and "democracy" and ram it down people's throats they would do it.
Democrats are against cleaning up fraud and waste. Democrats in power ARE the fraud and waste.
So they send out their cultists to protest and riot. (and damage private property)
That's also why the Democats commit and support voter fraud. Its why they want 16 y/o and non-citizens to vote. Its why they imported millions of illegal aliens. Because they want power to implement their agenda, and they don't care how they do it. "Just win baby, just win".
I don't see the Democrats changing, mostly because they are dominated by the liberal/left, and partly because their core voters are the dumbest, more easily led, low information, people in the USA. Look at the VIew. The empty-headed that lap that crap up, are the same ones who were OK with no primaries in 2020, and will vote for any POTUS candidate the Democrat Party elite choose.
No wonder people like Maher and Cuomo have contempt for the voters, they think we're all like average Democrats!
Funny those democrats. They've had the longest string of alpha Presidents in the last hundred years - FDR, JFK, Johnson, (Carter was a hiccup), Clinton and alpha-beta Obama. The first three are now too alpha for them. Clinton is maybe ok, sometimes, but mostly not. And, Obama is Obama. They've got no one now. Alpha is not allowed. Right now the most alpha democrats are trans-women (aka, a dude that beats up on women while wearing a dress and putting on their lipstick).
Cuomo's wrong: Trump didn't just figure out who people hated and then fan the flames of that hatred. Listen to Trump's interview with Oprah from 30-35 years ago. The things he's saying and doing now are clearly a continuation of the ideas and outlook he had then. What's changed is that a generation of elite, globalist, pro-immigration, corrupt governance by the uniparty has all but ruined our country, and everyone can see it. Trump stood alone in declaring "Enough!," and that's why he won. The dems have no good answer to Trump because the record of utter economic and social decline under the banner of uniparty globalist/liberal rule speaks for itself.
To heck with message. Democrats want a nice looking philanderer they'd like to blow. He can say anything he wants...
FormerLawClerk said...
“Mahr is right. Tim Walz is gay.”
So half of the South Park Kathleen Kennedy meme.
Democrats rarely believe it's the taste of the dog food that needs fixing. To them, it's always something wrong with the dog and they simply need to do a better job of convincing the dog that it actually likes the taste of what they're pushing.
Talking heads are rarely “of the people.” These guys are no exception. BTW, guys, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Democrats are crazy and destructive. The question is whether the biased, incessant pounding of the leftmediaswine can convince a majority that Trump is more so.
I'll go with Real American. The dogs got tired of Dimocrat dog food. I read the newspapers that talk about "thousands protest Trump". Then I think "millions voted for Trump". Hating Trump is not a policy. But it's seemingly all the Democrats have going for them today--and it is not enough.
The Democrats' starting position is the will to power. It is not that the World has certain problems that they would like to fix. The only problem that concerns them in the slightest is that they don't have absolute power over everything. A Democrat is an arrow, pointing to a concentration camp.
Althouse: "Or maybe a true Mother?"
Kam Harris and the Mothers
Were at the best place around
But some stupid with a flare gun
Burned the Teslas to the ground
JSM
I thought the message the Democrats trumpet was fear and loathing. Which any Tim can do. Unfortunately, for Democrats, Democrats are still hell bent on having a female as their flagbearer. Hochul will be the nominee in 2028, Whitmer is too creepy, and AOC is too flighty.
First the Dems need to update their logo.
It should be a donkey firebombing a Tesla.
The Democrats' message has always been that the Republicans were the party of the rich.
Unfortunately for them, the public realized the Dems were also the party of the rich.
That didn't leave any message left on which to run.
Democrats in Chicago are virulent anti-Trump anti-MAGA, without understanding underlying issues, failing to acknowledge that progressive-liberal politics and policies have literally destroyed Chicago's tax-base and its public safety measures. Chicago is now murder capitol of USA, and has stripped significant value from its commercial tax-base, all due to Biden-era policies. Chicago's many progressive liberal baby-boomerss, and all its Antifa-allegiant young adults, avidly protest "hands off" (off what???), gleeful key and burn other people's Teslas, and generally marauder through daily life pontificating their woke talking-points, all the while city and its downtown declines into Detroit-level dysfunction and bankruptcy.
I think Bill should follow Ronald Reagan's lead and run for CA governor in 2026. While I would love it if he ran as a "modern day" moderate/liberal R, he would run as a D, of course. But maybe he could run as a sane D? Imagine the debate stage of Kamala Harris vs. Bill Maher.
"I am man, hear me roar".
If Trump was just an atheist in favor of pot legalization, Maher would have nothing against him.
People I dont bother listening to for $100.
Gosh. Remember when the flavor of the day for Demmies was Obama the Boyfriend? Now they want to go with Conan the Barbarian? It'll turn into Conan the O'Brien pronto.
One of the fallacies of our age is that people are dumber than they were. People are not dumber. They're just not as well educated. (on average) Their intelligence has moved on to other day-to -day skills, like mastering a smart phone.
For example: Things are less repairable than they were, so repair skills are falling by the wayside. (In fact, many things today are non-repairable.)
The more that we let the Media, the internet and AI do our critical thinking for us, the less critical thinking we will do.
For decades the uni-party had very cleverly managed to bundle things that most people want with things that most people don't want so that nothing ever changed, while the people in government continued to skim more and more for themselves. It's like a cable-TV package where you have to pay for a bunch of channels you don't want in order to get the one channel you desire: if you wanted a strong military you had to buy unbalanced trade; if you wanted a more generous social safety net, you had to accept racial craziness.
The uniparty hates Trump so much because he broke up the stable bundles that empowered the governing class and offered a new policy-bundle that appeals to a large demographic that hadn't been able to get much of what they wanted--and could get rid of none of the things they hated--until this point. Trump allows normals to buy military strength without also letting the finance people loot the country; they can get tariff protection for domestic industries without agreeing to sex-weirdness; they can celebrate patriotism without invading and occupying the world.
What enabled Trump was, surprisingly, what seemed like one of the greatest triumphs of Clinton and Obama: convincing factions of the upper class--bankers, insurance executives, hospital managers--to join the Democratic party in exchange for protection from regulation. This was great for short-term money, but in the long run it helped destroy the Democrat's New Deal image as champions of the working class (what Obamacare actually did rather than what they said it did also helped a lot: by the end of Covid everybody realized that the insurance industry now completely controlled medicine and your own doctor was as powerless as you were).
That Democrats seem completely unable to recognize that Trump's tariffs are basically Richard Gephardt's union-approved economic policies and recognize this as a triumph for themselves and the working class tells you a lot. Any remaining Democrats who actually cared about the working class could get more of their policy ideas implemented now than has been possible since the 1960s, but they refuse to even think about it. How much of this blindness is just mindless Trump hatred, versus how much is simply that the Democrats have moved on from the working class and are only paying lip service to supporting them, is still unresolved.
The next Democrat to win a national election will have to find a way for the current top/bottom coalition of the Laptop and Welfare classes to peel off voters from either the top or the bottom of the Working Middle Class. But that's a tall order, as the lower Working Class loathes and despises the Welfare class (who often have an objectively higher standard of living without doing any productive labor) and the Middle Class hates and resents the Laptop class (who condescend to them and through bad management make their lives difficult or impossible).
A lot of Dems appear to hate their parents.
Many on the left operate from the assumption that they are the enlightened elite and that any opposition to them can, at best, be ascribed to idiots who are being misled by evil demagogues.
Exactly.
See: Inga. The sunrise thread from yesterday.
Their message is to insult the people who's vote they need.
It will take a very talented salesman to sell that dogfood.
I disagree with Inga on most things, but she is warm-hearted and decent. She has reasons for her positions. She also puts up with a lot of verbal abuse in these comments without complaint.
Trump does certainly isolate targets of frustration. But that’s not the benefit he creates for his supporters. The benefit he creates is in the economic space. His supporters in the working class have been decimated by economic policies that encouraged jobs to leave the U.S. since the 80s. Trump is forcing those jobs back to the U.S. it would be nice to deal with all the corruption and the weaponization of government and I think we all support Trump dealing with that BS. But that isn’t his primary benefit. His primary benefit is that working class people have a much better chance to earn a prosperous life. Successful working class people are harder to manipulate and exploit and that’s why the dems hate it.
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