"Vaccines today are cleaner and more efficient, and they contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system — by orders of magnitude — than they did decades ago. What’s more, the immune reactions produced by vaccines are 'minuscule' compared with those that children experience on a daily basis, said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, a pediatrician at Stanford University who advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on vaccines. Children harbor trillions of bacteria, more than the number of their own cells, and encounter pathogens everywhere — from caregivers and playmates; in kitchens, bathrooms and playgrounds; on toys, towels and sponges. 'That’s just the normal course of growing up, is to have fevers and develop immunity to all of the organisms that are in the environment around you,' Dr. Maldonado said.
'We are built to withstand that.'..."
From
"Are Childhood Vaccines ‘Overloading’ the Immune System? No. Vaccines today are more efficient and contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system than some used decades ago" (NYT).
"In most states, children must be vaccinated against about a dozen diseases, a schedule that typically adds up to about 17 doses, administered before they begin kindergarten... Each of the shots contains about 10 antigens. Older vaccines packed a much bigger punch, having up to 300 times as many...."
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from caregivers and playmates; in kitchens, bathrooms and playgrounds; on toys, towels and sponges.
Not counting their smartphones.
The counter is that it's a complex system and the vaccines differ by being designed. Children did not evolve to deal with vaccine makers.
"Each of the shots contains about 10 antigens. Older vaccines packed a much bigger punch, having up to 300 times as many...."
A Change in Vaccine Efficacy and Duration of Protection Explains Recent Rises in Pertussis Incidence in the United States
"Over the past ten years the incidence of pertussis in the United States (U.S.) has risen steadily, with 2012 seeing the highest case number since 1955. There has also been a shift over the same time period in the age group reporting the largest number of cases (aside from infants), from adolescents to 7–11 year olds. We use epidemiological modelling and a large case incidence dataset to explain the upsurge. We investigate several hypotheses for the upsurge in pertussis cases by fitting a suite of dynamic epidemiological models to incidence data from the National Notifiable Disease Surveillance System (NNDSS) between 1990–2009, as well as incidence data from a variety of sources from 1950–1989. We find that: the best-fitting model is one in which vaccine efficacy and duration of protection of the acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine is lower than that of the whole-cell (wP) vaccine, (efficacy of the first three doses 80% [95% CI: 78%, 82%] versus 90% [95% CI: 87%, 94%]), increasing the rate at which disease is reported to NNDSS is not sufficient to explain the upsurge and 3) 2010–2012 disease incidence is predicted well."
Not mentioned in the study is the effect of immigration from countries that don't require pertussis vaccinations. Pure conjecture on my part, but it does make me wonder.
I had a fourth grade teacher whose claim to fame was being an Indophile, and she'd been to India a bunch of times, and she said an Indian mother would think nothing of walking around holding her baby while dragging the tail end of her sari through the dirty streets and then slinging it over the kid's face, so then as now I really don't know what to make of all that except maybe I remember she thought it was a little gross but also kind of okay because India.
That fourth grade teacher had some Indian lady come in and talk to the class and she answered our questions. She was nice. I don't recall any questions about hygiene in India but there must have been a bunch of questions about the cows.
"Vaccines today are cleaner and more efficient, and they contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system — by orders of magnitude — than they did decades ago.”
Is there a reason why we should believe Dr. Moldonado? Whoever Trump appoints to run CDC, I hope that individual consults C. J. Peters pretty heavily. After the pandemic I’m not sure I’d believe anyone who affiliated with the CDC.
Where was she when the government was forcing the vaccination of kids under 18 with the untested Covid vaccine?The "science" as well as the observable evidence told us that the kids' robust immune systems protected them.
(Maybe I'll do some research--although generally the Althouse commentariat provides a quicker answer).
Children only need all those vaccines because they’re forced into a disease vector for 13 years
Experts. Feh
Dr Maldonado seems to be acknowledging that "decades ago" (say 20 years ago, the early 2000s) that vaccines might have been problematic, but now everything is just A-OK. "Trust us this time."
And the story is lacking any discussion of cost-benefit analysis across different vaccines. I don't know if the chicken pox vaccine is included in the schedule, but chicken pox is a relatively minor illness. Parents used to have chicken pox parties to expose their kids so they would get immunity. Is that vaccine necessary?
Come on, bro. You can trust the NY Times. They're never dishonest, bro. They never report 100% the opposite of what the truth is, bro. Just believe them bro. PLEASE. Just believe them. Come on, bro.
But do they really?
I've seen several reports recently of speculation, and possibly confirming research, that the seeming explosion of nut allergies among children is due at least in part to the extremely zealous effort by parents and caregivers to ensure that kids don't come in contact with nuts. The research indicates that incidental minor exposure over time decreases the development of allergy symptoms. I see a lot of evidence parents and caregivers try to do the same thing regarding viruses and bacteria.
To paraphrase Goebbels, Whenever I hear the words, "experts said" I want to reach for my gun.
'We are built to withstand that.'..."
Before antibiotics and vastly improved public sanitation systems children routinely died due to things we now consider minor. The antibiotic cream you search for when you get a scratch? Its a magic ointment.
I went for a blood draw and a child was there, too. She spent 10 minutes with the nurse screaming bloody murder from fear of the needle.
Maybe 17 shots before the age of 5 has all kinds of unintended consequences.
The advances reported address the concerns vaccine skeptics have been saying, no? Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
Why make it mandatory (I checked, and it is required for school)? It's not a life-threatening illness. Where's the risk-benefit analysis?
I'll ignore the ad hominem, except to say that I have no school-age children.
we have seen, that the idea of calling these people "experts" is fundamentally flawed
we have seen, that the idea of calling these vaccines "vaccines" is fundamentally flawed
any further questions?
If modern vaccines have been drastically "nerfed" compared to older ones, doesn't that validate the idea that the older ones might have been, you know, dangerous?
Wasn't that "measles parties"? (I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive.)
"vaccinated against about a dozen diseases, a schedule that typically adds up to about 17 doses, administered before they begin kindergarten... "
were you looking for Yet Another Reason to homeschool?
i wonder how many vaccines my Amish neighbors get for Their kids?
i wonder how many cases of autism or Polio they have?
So vaccines are cleaner says the good doctor. Did he address the DNA contamination present in the Covid mRNA "vaccines" that can integrate into the genome of normal human cells? What are the long term consequences doc?
https://changingtimes.media/2024/12/06/experts-warn-of-cancer-risk-as-dna-contamination-is-found-in-mrna-covid-19-vaccines/
"Dr Maldonado seems to be acknowledging that "decades ago" (say 20 years ago, the early 2000s) that vaccines might have been problematic, but now everything is just A-OK. "Trust us this time."
My thoughts exactly. And I doubt you could find the "experts" saying the older vaccines were a problem.
But at least the Covid non-vaccines have one hell of a test group (i.e. damn near everyone). Long term results to follow.
So, MSM Is going into overdrive to reassure us that the current system is perfect and to listen to the X-buts. Mabye it is, and maybe it isn't. Maybe RFK has a point. Let him run HHS and lets have a debate.
Never get a flu shot, never got any of the covid shots. I'm due for a tetanus shot but I think I'll have to look into the manufacturer and what exactly is in it. I don't trust them about anything now.
Is the idea that vaccines are "overtaxing children's immune systems" the real issue here? Seems to me the more fundamental issue is whether public health officials have the right to decide whether your children should be vaccinated and what vaccines they should receive. We already saw with covid that public health officials believe that have essentially plenary authority not only to decide these things, but to make up whatever shit they want in order to induce compliance. Because they are "science" and science can never be questioned.
As usual, answering a different question than what has been asked. I don't think anyone thinks that the potential issue is simply too much antigen.
What people are worried about is that either the adjuvants used to make the immune system respond, or the particular ways the antigens are engineered, or contamination from the replication methods, or some combination thereof causes the immune systems of some susceptible subset of the population to attack their own tissues at a sub-clinical level (i.e., not like lupus or MS) that interferes somehow with brain development.
I used to be very much knee-jerk "The immune system has nothing to do with autism, so vaccines can't be a contributing factor to autism!" and there still isn't anything conclusive, but that's because the way newer vaccines are tested is so idiotic that it almost HAS to be intended to obscure any effects.
RFK seems like an intelligent man, so I assume he has support for his views, some of which is supported by X-burts, except those X-Burts don't get quoted in the NYTs. Given the MSM track record during CV-19 (remember when trump was labeled a scaredy-cat racist for wanting to stop flights from China?) I'm not accepting anything they support about anything without external confirmation.
Unless it's the "nerfing" that actually causes the problem by producing longer-term sub-clinical effects that aren't caught in the safety trials . . .
They didn't just reduce the amount of antigen and do nothing else. They they add adjuvants that stimulate the immune system in general and then assume that it will attack amount of antigen that wasn't on its own enough to provoke a strong immune response. But if that general activation of the immune system causes the body to also turn on some of its own tissues, which is what happens in MS, when the immune system attacks the myelin sheaths of the nerves, there could be effects on brain development.
It may be that the old vaccines were better because they ONLY stimulated the immune system to go after that particular set of proteins.
Megthered said:
Never get a flu shot, never got any of the covid shots. I'm due for a tetanus shot but I think I'll have to look into the manufacturer and what exactly is in it. I don't trust them about anything now.
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There are some reports that say that the tetanus shot reduces fertility. I don't get flu shots, pneumonia shots, nor any of the Covid shots. The pharmacies and physicians are still pushing them though. That's the first question asked of me when I approach the pharmacy counter, or when I check in at the doctor's office. Do I want a flu/pneumonia/Covid Vaccine? No, No, and Hell No.
Another pre-'dunk' on Junior's nomination. He's an out-of-control crank, I tells ya. They're trotting them off the line, one after another.
Well, I wish you the best. The easily, harmlessly-preventable Tetanus is a really shitty way to die.
In 2017 I had a totally ordinary upper respiratory infection, and then suddenly horrible joint pain in my hands and feet that just would not go away. My c-reactive protein, etc. was too low for it to be a regular auto-immune disease (thank God), but I still had the pain and stiffness and nobody could do anything about it. Then I found a 78-year-old rheumatologist who tested me for all the most horrible auto-immune diseases that exist, told me I had none of them, and said that sometimes after a viral infection, the body attacks its own tissues--such as synovial fluid in the joints--at a very low level. "I'm going to put you on this very old, utterly safe, anti-malaria drug," he said. When I asked why: "No one knows why it works, but it sometimes does, and there are no side-effects--except you have to get your vision checked every six months--so I want you to stay on it until the symptoms go away." 9-10 months later and one morning I woke up and could walk across the floor without wincing. That drug: plaquinel, also known as the deadly poison hydroxychloroquine. (I wonder how many people with "long-covid" would be helped the way I was?)
The relevance of this story to the vaccine debate is that it is possible for the immune system to be activated against the body's own tissues in a very low-grade way, not anything close to the misery that is lupus or MS or scleroderma. It seems to me that such a low-grade auto-immune response against nerve tissue or glial cells or something else CNS-related could affect developing brains negatively.
You'd think that the people at the FDA, and pediatricians in general, would want to look into that rather than trying to shout down anyone who questions the system. There are a lot of candidates for whom blame (which we all know), and I'd like to add one more: the baleful effect of a lot of the ideology behind "public health." The mask came off during the pandemic, and we should remember what was behind it: "first, do no harm" for each individual patient abandoned and manipulation of public opinion to get "compliance" elevated above every other good.
You get tetanus; you're not going to live to regret it.
>cfs said...
There are some reports that say that the tetanus shot reduces fertility.<
I doubt that such reports - from any erudite source, that is - exist. The "reports" you mention most assuredly come from some marginal, hysterical internet source that doesn't know what it's talking about.
Scientists have investigated vaccines that link human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) to tetanus toxoid (TT) to induce antibodies against hCG and prevent pregnancy. This experimental birth control vaccine is distinct from standard tetanus vaccines used for immunization against tetanus disease. TT has a well-established safety profile, making it a logical choice as a carrier protein for experimental birth control vaccines.
Oh. Experts are back again.
Maybe the chicken pox vaccine is mandatory because without it children would miss days of school and the school wouldn't get paid by the state.
If you want to immediately raise doubt about a subject use the word “experts” in the headline.
I asked our PCP about a tetanus booster, and she told me that Medicare won't pay for it if administered at her office. They're supposedly not recommending a booster now, but they'll give you a shot if you get a major cut or puncture.
Makes no sense.
That was Goering.
New Coke. Rebrand.
" Medicare won't pay for it". I guess they've done the math. I'm always getting scraped with rusty metal doing one thing or another at the land - old barbed wire is the most common culprit - so I'll take the shot, thanks. There are documented cases of people that survived lockjaw successfully, and this small set makes for interesting reading on suffering.
>MadTownGuy said...
They're supposedly not recommending a booster now, but they'll give you a shot if you get a major cut or puncture.
Makes no sense.<
It makes no sense to you because you think that they are the same "shot." They're not; they are two different things that work in entirely different ways.
Tetanus Immune Globulin (TIG): A form of passive immunization given to provide immediate protection against tetanus in the event of a fresh wound in an unimmunized person. It contains fully-formed antibodies that can fight tetanus toxins immediately and has nothing to do with stimulating the body's immune system to fight a tetanus infection.
Tetanus Toxoid (TT) vaccine: The immunization series that stimulates the immune system to be ready over the long term to quickly produce tetanus antibody for preventing tetanus in a fresh wound.
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense.
Adjuvants, inflammatory responses, and pathogenic progress (e.g. migratory mRNA), and other inoculation effects can cause forward-looking injuries and death. Both inoculation and vaccines (i.e. sterilizing) are part of a risk management protocol. Flu vaccines have been demonstrated to be ineffective, if only because the viruses are likely to mutate, or worse, coexist as sympathetic partners.
What's funny about this, is the idea that a pediatrician would know anything about vaccines. Like, the pediatricians at Stanford take extra classes, or something, so they know what's safe. The way you find out what's safe is to compare kids who are vaccinated to kids who are not vaccinated. And that is something the American medical racket WILL NOT ALLOW!
I cant say i have been injured by any vaccine, not dead yet. I took 2 covids because i was in grad school and it was that or quit. I took the shingles vax because shingles is horrible.
What gets me is the arrogance of the expert Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, yea, vaccines have less stuff in them now so they must be ok, ha ha i dont care, why does that make them safe? They still may have some bad stuff in them.
I am a statistician, but when Phizer wants to keep their vax trial data secret for 75 years i begin to worry about ethics.
I have known many experts over the years, and many get lazy and just want to dictate their biases, and 90% of their interest is money, the rest is glory and reputation.
You don’t have to wonder. There are 11 refugee resettlement sites in the U.S., and these sites attract huge numbers of legal and illegal immigrants because there is infrastructure, translators, and government bloc grants for more free bennies.
Pertussis breakouts are happening in these places and also in extreme lefty communities that oppose vaccinations too.
The Covid shot wasn’t technically a vaccine. Fauci should rot in prison. Vaccines, though, are good things: something like 60% of people who have been at all sexually active in the last 30 years, including kissing and no penetration, have been exposed to HPV, which causes cancer. Tongue, throat, penis, vaginal, esophageal, and colon cancer rates are soaring because of HPV. If you have children, get them that vaccination as soon as possible, at the very start of puberty. Those are ugly ways to die. Plumbers should all get Hep A shots: the disease can live in pipes for years, and I’ve cut through a pipe with a needle in it, lying on my back in a crawl space. Whooping cough, measles, tetanus, and polio are terrible ways to die. Flu shots aren’t always accurate due to the guesswork to develop them long before flu season strains emerge, but they usually at least reduce symptoms. Pneumonia and shingles shots spare older people excruciating pain.
Closing the border and Fauci in prison may stop the government’s sick undermining of our faith in ordinary vaccines. You don’t want to be a filthy hippy with a bunch of kids with whooping cough, right?
The school gets paid by the state the same amount whether or not kids miss days, so long as they are registered. That’s pure conspiracy. Chicken pox isn’t serious, but later in life, if you haven’t had it or the vaccine, plus a booster, you are prone to shingles. You don’t want shingles.
Oh, come on. That’s mommy creating anxiety. Every day, my brother and father had to take multiple shots for Type 1 diabetes (genetic, not lifestyle). Later it was dialysis, which is a real horror show. When I hear a child whining about a shot in a doctor’s office, I know some sicko mommy has instilled the fear. I’d like to slap women like that back to reality. By 8, my brother was sticking needles into his own stomach every day to stay alive, as other parts of his body had sustained too much scar tissue. He didn’t cry. Get over this trauma nonsense, Kate.
That’s worth considering, Professor Drout.
More than the population at large, oddly for both, but inbreeding clouds all the data.
I will say this: I’m prone to bad respiratory infections despite never smoking (unless you count the millions of cigarettes my parents inhaled around me until I bolted to college at 16 and refused to date smokers). I can cure them using old techniques I learned from Frontier Diaries. Wear three hats, wrap a heating pad around your neck, and cover yourself with blankets until you’ve had a few fever spikes and breaks. You’re good to go the next day. I never did figure out what a mustard poultice was, though.
That isn’t technically a vaccine. Fauci should die in prison. General population.
Mad Town Guy: pay for it yourself. You can probably find them free. Medicare patients of your generation didn’t pay in a fraction of what they spend: we pay for it. Do the research: it’s sickeningly unambiguous. She’ll out a couple bucks and stop whining.
"In most states, children must be vaccinated against about a dozen diseases, a schedule that typically adds up to about 17 doses, administered before they begin kindergarten... Link to the CDC childhood vaccination recommendation schedule:
26 recommended doses in the first 15 months of life by my count. But hey, 17, 26, what's the difference? They're all good! Right? And necessary!
Now, how do you get DNA in a RNA vaccine? In the manufacturing process. One of the dirty little secrets about those ModRNA “vaccines” was that the vaccines used in the trials were made in a lab. They were fairly pure as a result. But the laboratory process utilized for the vaccines utilized in the trials cannot be scaled. A different process is utilized to manufacture the vaccines administered to the public. It was never tested for safety and purity, as it, by law, should have been. The FDA is supposed to require that testing every time a different process is utilized to manufacture an approved pharmaceutical product. We see this all the time with generic drugs.
Someone, maybe a year into vaccinations, noticed that some batches of the COVID-19 vaccines caused most of the immediately detected side effects. And some of the batches had a lot of junk in them (such as the DNA, but also even shreds of glass). That should have been a loud siren indicating manufacturing process issues, and the vaccines from those companies using those manufacturing processes should have been immediately suspended. They weren’t.
But, then, those ModRNA vaccines should never have been approved in the first place. Forcing the vaccines onto hundreds of millions of people not in any real danger of death, forced the virus to quickly mutate the two proteins produced by the vaccines, and keep mutating them, as the vaccines constantly, and continuing to this day, to play catch up. By now, pretty much the only people getting COVID-19 are the repeatedly vaccinated and boosted, who never developed full virus immunity. Last I knew, both Fauci and Biden, have had it at least 5 times. The vaccines might have been helpful, if limited to those with multiple comorbidities. Then, everyone else could develop natural immunities, and protect the vulnerable with some level of herd immunity. As it turns out though, whatever herd immunity we do have is mostly limited to long obsolete spike proteins.
If you want a well written introduction to the immune system, try IMMUNE by Philipp Dettmer
Of course flu viruses mutate. They are RNA respiratory viruses with fairly simple and robust infection mechanisms (very similar in that respect to the SARS coronaviruses). RNA is inherently unstable, and RNA viruses mutate much more easily than DNA viruses. Most mutations are, effectively, fatal to the mutated virus. But, The simple and robust infection mechanism means that that a significantly higher percentage of the mutations to the virus are not.
One of the interesting facets of the ModRNA vaccines is that they produce the S1 and S2 proteins, that are key to the virus entering cells. One of the interesting things there is that the S1 protein has an increased affinity to human ACE2 receptors. This is one of the reasons that we knew, early on, that the SARS-2 virus did not zoonoticly jump from another species to humans. And, indeed, it turns out that there is significant evidence that it was precisely these two proteins that were inserted into the virus, in the Gain of Function research in Wuhan. So, with an mRNA generating vaccine, if you are only going to produce a small number of different proteins, the proteins utilized to attach and enter cells were the logical ones to utilize. And, coincidentally, the mRNA generating them were well known and easily identified, esp at the WIV. The good news is that essentially detuning these spike proteins (through mutations forced by the vaccines) reduced the lethality of the virus.
I would add most MDs. My partner routinely lies on the forms you fill out about having had the ModRNA COVID-19 vaccines. Of course she has had them, and all the prescribed boosters. Nope. She has a very weird immune system, and we are pretty sure that they would have killed her. On the flip side, she’s probably had the virus, and thus has robust full virus natural immunities.
We take knowledge of the problems with the vaccines as a litmus test of a physician’s competence. Her GP and back surgeon understand the problems. And the former is really the only one that matters. Her pain management doctor doesn’t, but it’s not his concern. He’s good at what he does, so she keeps him. But with new specialists, we walk out if they push these vaccines. Turns out, the ones who are in large practices are institutionally forced into supporting these vaccines, but really don’t care (or oppose them) themselves , which is fine. And of course, the local hospital Ears are adamant, and still, to this day, won’t accept you, if you don’t claim to be vaccinated. So, of course, we lie.
My pet peeve though are pharmacists. My daughter had her 4 month old vaccinated because one of her best friends, a pharmacist, strongly recommended it. One of her kids had caught the virus, and suffered a lot. Asked daughter to ask this friend the fatality rate of the virus in kids. Turns out to be less than one in a million. Not only do most pharmacists not know how the vaccines operate, or the FDA testing they were excepted from, or the dangers, but vaccines are now big business for pharmacies.
I don't think I've told this story her.
My 3-year-old grandson recently had a flu shot.
Whe he learned his grandmother was going to get one, he looked at her solemnly and said:
"Be brave."
The medical vaccine industrial complex has zero credibility. Why should we take anything they say at face value - and why shouldn't we discount their pronouncements in proportion to the economic value mandated vaccinations bring to pharma cos and their supporters (including especially the legislators who work so hard to enforce these mandates on schoolchildren)?
It’s not the number of different antigens that is problematic, but the total antigen amount. Probably even more important are the adjuvants - chemicals that are included specifically to amplify the immune reaction because an “everyday” immune response to the antigens in the vaccines would not be enough to make enough antibody to provide immunity. The idea that the level of immune system activity stimulated by a vaccine is a normal every-day event is nonsense. That doesn’t mean vaccines necessarily cause autism or whatever, but the rhetoric in the quote you shared is not part of an honest and open conversation.
Brought to you by Pfizer, Moderna, et al.
Recently badly cut a finger, requiring ER and stitches. ER physician said a tetanus shot was needed but hospital only stocked shot containing both tetanus and whooping cough vaccines. Odd combo.
Are you telling me vaccines “used to be” dangerous but now they’re better?
https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/the-hpv-vaccine-disaster-was-a-blueprint
When you cut your finger, did you whoop?
Although there's never been an official admission about this, it's pretty clear that Gulf War Syndrome was caused not by old chemical weapons or burn pits or depleted uranium slugs, but by the squalene that was the adjuvant in the anthrax vaccine that was suddenly rushed through an approval process and imposed upon all the troops in theater. A lot of veterans have a very strong antibody response to squalene.
But every article you read on Gulf War Sydrome and squalene will employ exactly the same weasel words, bluster, and answering questions no one asked that are now so familiar from covid: squalene isn't really that strong (though we don't know how much squalene was actually in the anthrax vaccine that people actually received), people without Gulf War Syndrome have strong antibodies to squalene (that's wonderful for them, but people's immune systems vary a great deal), etc. In other words, we didn't try to figure out if the amount of squalene in the anthrax vaccine and the squalene plus the anthrax vaccine caused auto-immune problems, but just did antibody titers and made assumptions.
'That’s just the normal course of growing up, is to have fevers and develop immunity to all of the organisms that are in the environment around you,' Dr. Maldonado said. 'We are built to withstand that.'..."
Yes, we are. NOT being exposed to that is what's led to all teh nut allergies, etc.
Vaccines today are more efficient and contain far fewer stimulants to the immune system than some used decades ago
That, however, we are NOT "built to withstand", because it's new.
So the idea that "of course this new thing is just like the old thing", if ever justified, has been completely nuked by the deaths caused by the mRNA vaccines.
This makes me sad, because I would like for hat technology to work, and be great.
But I'm not a fruitcake, so I try to go with reality, over feelings
"Experts said."
Hard pass.
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