October 4, 2024

"When states began legalizing marijuana nearly three decades ago, initially for medical use, they set in motion something of an unintended public health experiment...."

"But cannabis remains illegal under federal law and classified as a tightly controlled substance, which has stymied oversight and scientific study.... [Few states] require warnings about cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome or psychosis. None are monitoring — or are even equipped to assess — the full scope of health outcomes. 'There is no other quote-unquote medicine in the history of our country where your doctor will say, "Go experiment and tell me what happens,"' said Carrie Bearden, a clinical psychologist and neuroscientist at the University of California, Los Angeles.....  The commercial industry that followed [legalization] touted its products as beneficial, while focusing not on developing marijuana’s medical uses but on engineering a quicker, more intense high.... The commercial market expanded further in 2018 when Congress legalized hemp, a cannabis plant used in industrial products, and inadvertently legalized highly intoxicating hemp-derived compounds like Delta-8 THC...."

From "As America’s Marijuana Use Grows, So Do the Harms/The drug, legal in much of the country, is widely seen as nonaddictive and safe. For some users, these assumptions are dangerously wrong" (NYT).

77 comments:

tommyesq said...

"There is no other quote-unquote medicine in the history of our country where your doctor will say, "Go experiment and tell me what happens"

Well, other than experimental, never-been-tested "vaccines" that we are still apparently unable or unwilling to ascertain the prevalence of side effects.

Dave Begley said...

Former NYT reporter has written a book on this: Tell Your Children. But the amount of money to be made is astounding. When I visited Detroit two years ago, I was struck by the number of billboards advertising pot.

doctrev said...

Translation: taxing marijuana didn't work, at all, so the productivity costs mean that neoliberals are going back to criminalizing it. Which is a disaster for people who have to promise (but never succeed) to take the stigma from pot.

mccullough said...

The lawsuits against Marijuana Inc are going to break it

narciso said...

there was a reason why lethe was not considered a good thing

RideSpaceMountain said...

I predict that it will be federally rescheduled someday, probably before the end of the decade. When that happens, expect RJ Reynolds, Philip Morris, Pfizer, Merck, Glaxo, etc. etc. to get in on the game with the same "impact" R&D they directed at nicotine or methadone.

Whatever the recreational industry is doing now, multiply that by orders of magnitude if the transnational majors get in on the game.

David53 said...

I tried some Delta 9 when the vape shops started to open in Texas. It kicked my butt, it’s not like the dope was back in the 70s or maybe it’s because I’m older and my brain has physically changed or a combination of the two. I can see how if you use it daily for a long period of time it could break you.

Jaq said...

"non-addictive..."

LOL.

Rusty said...

In Colorado it was illegal for canabis shops to deposit money in banks. Consequently the demand for gun safes exploded as did the demand for security.

Skeptical Voter said...

California has had some interesting things happen when it legalized marijuana. One idea was the state would get a tax boost from sales in the licensed shops. Well the licensed shops are complaining that they are getting hammered by competition from unregulated sellers. Who woulda thought that marijuana sellers would be a group that said ,"We don't need no steenkin' license!" Unintended consequences all the way down.

Kate said...

I grabbed the quote, ready to post the exact same thing.

narciso said...

yeah those quote marks are doing heavy lifting,

Achilles said...

And anyone who does not get vaccinated needs to lose their job and be excluded from hospital care.

Temujin said...

We have a State Amendment up for adoption here in Florida coming up in November. We currently have medical marijuana available to anyone. It is a very easy, simple process that requires only that you see a 'Medical Marijuana Doc' (that's another story) once a year. Meet with him or her. Tell them why you need or want access, and they send an approval to the state, which sends you a card. But you get a number before you get the card and you can shop at any dispensary as soon as you have the number.
The amendment would make it fully legal, available to use anywhere. Keep in mind, we have as many dispensaries already as we do nail salons. They are already on every corner, in every strip center. Seemingly.

I know because I did this a few years ago. I thought that it would help me sleep, much as it did during my college years, when I could barely get up to go to classes. But...as we all know, the pot of today is far more powerful than the pot of the early 70s.

Anyway- long story shortened- I stopped using and have let my card expire. BUT...we do know that today's pot IS or can be harmful to young brains. We have the studies now. We have longer term data now.

So...in my mind, it's easy enough to get access to marijuana now in Florida. I see no reason to remove even the lightest barrier and make it available in used all around town. No one wants to have it in their face sitting in an outdoor cafe here in town. If I wanted that, I'd move to Madison. Or Boulder. And I worry more about the kids. They can get it anyway. They don't need state approved pot easily available to them as well. And they don't need to see a city full of stoned out adults. They already suspect we're all stoned by the way we run things. Let's not confirm that.

Shouting Thomas said...

My little hometown of about 40,000 people now has 3 dispensaries, one of them all of 3.5 miles from my house, which will deliver! I’m writing a song called “government weed.” In NY State, the commies handed out the dispensary permits according to DEI status… first to blacks, then to gays and then to women. The dispensaries advertise their DEI status as if it’s a point of pride. And, yes, I like pot. It’s all hilarious.

Enigma said...

This follows the overt corruption of the nanny/safety/Karen wing of government. This transition happened between Bill Clinton's and Obama's administrations. The only explanation for the recent treatment of marijuana is to spur voting among drug users (e.g., college age; blacks, etc.), and to reward supporters in deep blue places like D.C., the west coast, and Boulder, CO.

From the 1960s to early 2000s the pro-government nannies said many things were bad and demanded new laws:

-The Corvair was 'unsafe at any speed.' They demanded bumpers and mandatory seat belts in the 1960s.

- 'Saturday-night Special' guns were too inexpensive and popular among lower-class (read black) criminals. Ban them in 1968.

- Drunk driving was bad. Very bad. Increase the drinking age from 18 to 21 and ramp up penalties. See 1980s.

- Rock music lyrics either satanic or sexist or pro-gangster (see Al Gore's wife Tipper and the PMRC). See 1980s.

- Pornography was bad for all sorts of reasons (see Republican Edwin Meese and a few generations of lefty feminists too). See 1980s to 1990s.

- Smoking was bad. Put Surgeon General warnings on packages, criticize Joe Camel cartoons and then sexy adult humans in Kamel Red tobacco ads (see Bill Clinton's administration). See 1960s to late 1990s.

- Second-hand smoke bad, very bad. Ban smoking in bars and within 25 feet of buildings. See 1980s and 1990s.

- Legalize MJ as a medical treatment "only". Allow wink-wink-nod-nod prescriptions for anyone who asks. Cultivate stronger and stronger plants with more and more THC. Sell a bunch of 'normalizing' products such as hemp-based cosmetics and the worst food ever created, hemp pasta. Allow recreational MJ after 20 years of medical-only use. Turn a blind eye to second-hand smoke laws in blue cities, as MJ smoke is 10x stronger than tobacco smoke and lasts 100x longer too.

Corruption. The worm turns. Political parties will rot in hell.

who-knew said...

Like alcohol, it can be used recreationally by most people but others won't be able to handle it. The arguments against legalization sound, to me, like the arguments for prohibition. And the arguments for legalization sound like the post-prohibition arguments about why prohibition caused more problems (see Al Capone) than they solved. While I lean toward the pro-legalization side, the number of pot shops in the little U.P. town of Ironwood is astounding and every time I go through there they are all very busy (of course they draw a lot of business from Wisconsin where's it's still illegal and Minnesota where it's been legalized but apparently is too expensive).

who-knew said...

In my opinion, medical marijuana and is and was always a scam and just a way to get the camel's nose under the tent flap.

Leland said...

How do they know it was "inadvertent"?

narciso said...

I think so too, another former of reefer madness, consider the places where they have overindulged,

Kevin said...

Shutting down tobacco and opening up pot was a cash grab by politicians.

Quaestor said...

I have some pot-smoking friends who are daily users. To me, that qualifies addiction without equivocation. I enjoy an occasional Big Mac with large fries and a Coke, but if I ate that every day I would be forced to accept the addiction diagnosis as well.

I like my pothead mates and enjoy their company, but they share the inability to follow and critique a complex line of reasoning. Whether the subject of conversation is IT, history, or science, they want the back-of-the-cereal-box condensation. Detail confuses and frustrates them.

Birches said...

Anyone who is unsure about the effects of legalizing pot should visit Colorado. Friends of ours couldn't let their kids play outside when the neighbors, who grew their own supply, decided to smoke. Always outside. Those neighbors also had an open window with a bright grow light on 24 hours a day. That's a personal story, but downtown is also a no-go zone now. It reeks and is unsafe. Plus, they'll say the pot money will be used for education, but then the school board is constantly asking for more money. When you say, "what about the pot money," they say, "it's not for this."

I'm happy to be done with that state. Best decision we ever made.

Quaestor said...

NORML was a fraud from the start.

Jupiter said...

Addiction is a specific process, in which a substance mimics some neurotransmitter, causing brain processes to be artificially stimulated or depressed. Neurons respond to this by becoming less sensitive. Which means that a larger dose is required to achieve the same effect. When the artificial stimulus is withdrawn, the process does not return to normal immediately, because of this desensitization. Thus the invariable signs of addiction are tolerance and withdrawal. The mere fact that one does something frequently does not mean that one is addicted to it.

Jupiter said...

Although I have no interest whatsoever in smoking marijuana, I continue to think that it is not the government's business to decide what I ingest.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Someone offered me a job being a cannabis delivery driver. You have to carry a gun. I don't work jobs that require a firearm. If I need a gun, I need another job. Also, drugs are scummy and I won't have anything to do with them.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

I see weed selling for $30/oz now. Twenty years ago it was, in my locality, about $40 for a quarter. That's a lot of deflation. It's easy to be stoned 24/7 now. That can't be good.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Don't move to Oregon, then.

Ann Althouse said...

"But...as we all know, the pot of today is far more powerful than the pot of the early 70s."

That's what I keep reading, but I have tried it a few times (in these "legal" states) and it has no effect on me. What's going on?

Ann Althouse said...

"... it has no effect on me..."

Once, I felt vaguely, unpleasantly alienated.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Weed causes tolerance and withdrawal. I was a restaurant manager in CO. It was obvious. I'm amazed anyone claims otherwise anymore. Also, yes, weed makes you dumb. I tried it 20 years ago and couldn't stand being stupid the next day. Worked in restaurants, didn't do drugs. I was a weirdo.

tommyesq said...

Actually, to be fair, with the vaccines they really said "go experiment" but not "tell me what happens" - they don't want to know (and more importantly, they don't want you and I to know).

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Maybe you got scammed, or you just have boomer genes from the 60s. IDK. I knew people who smoked all the time and seemed fine. Others were incapacitated.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

You aren't the problem.

Yancey Ward said...

I have known a lot of habitual pot smokers during my life- none, literally none, are what I would call successful people in life. Now, I can't demonstrate to you the direction of causality but that is just my own personal experience with the drug.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Indeed. This is the biggest lie about drugs out there.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

I've got a friend who is moderately successful, but would have gone a lot farther without the weed. And, like you say, a lot more who went nowhere.

Zavier Onasses said...


"When states began legalizing marijuana nearly three decades ago, initially for medical use, they set in motion something of an unintended public health experiment...."

Of Course! Yes! It was an UNINTENDED consequence. What else could have it been? Those State Legislators gave their best effort, so we forgive their stupidity and lack of foresight. Absolutely vote for them again.

What else could it have been? It COULD have been evil State Legislators comfortable in their office and confident of re-election, INTENDING to foment legal chaos, doubt and uncertainty amongst the Plebs - the very conditions which cause the un-self-confident to lean MORE on Government for security.

Yeah, it could have been that, but did the NYT think to offer that alternative? Or, did the NYT blather about their ANSWER while never mentioning the actual QUESTION?

tommyesq said...

Money is fungible - the money that comes in from pot tax does not add to the education fund, they just take the equivalent amount out of the education fund for whatever other stupid thing they want to spend it on. The same thing happens with state lottery money.

n.n said...

Now do Fentanyl, a highly addictive drug, requiring progressive dosing, and a respiratory depressant.

John henry said...

Whatever happened to "my body, my choice"?

I

Tina Trent said...

It isn't surprising that addiction rates and brain damage are skyrocketing among teens with developing brains who aren't even supposed to be able to access now-legal and highly potent pot. But I do wish journalists would stop pretending that the activists only wanted so-called medical marijuana, then moved to complete legalization. Medical marijuana was never anything but a myth, a political strategy, as is the current claim that without federal action, medical research can't be done. In fact, research has been done. Marijuana has shown promise only for treating symptoms for a very short list of serious diseases involving muscular and organ inflammation --Crohn's and Myasthenia Gravis, less so MS. Glaucoma and nausea from chemotherapy are treated far more effectively with other drugs now, and Glaucoma drugs made with marijuana were always made with the part that does not involve getting stoned. I also wish they would report accurately that these organizations also openly plan to legalize all drugs -- cocaine, meth, heroin, and opiates and anxiety drugs. Their next priority is psychedelics, and after that probably cocaine. When legalized, every drug will become both ubiquitous and far more accessible to teenagers, and, as with pot, the cartel markets will just keep growing anyway, providing a cheaper product while taking over legal sales. The plan is still to start by claiming medical uses and moving to full legalization. Let's bring some current facts to this discussion, not just eternal references to Prohibition.

PM said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Marijuana is probably harmless to adults, if being a bit stupid is not an issue. It definitely causes psychosis in adolescents who are heavy users. Not all teens but enough.

Zavier Onasses said...

Kevin at 11:03 "Shutting down tobacco and opening up pot was a cash grab by politicians."

Hold that thought and tell me one act by politicians which is NOT a cash grab.

Christopher B said...

You would think people might have been able to generalize from our long experience with tobacco and alcohol but noooooooooo, this time was gonna be different

who-knew said...

I did generalize from our experience, especially with alcohol., and have come to the conclusion that the two are roughly equivalent as to both the pros and cons of it being legalized. In my limited experience of legal states, which really boils down to the most sparsely populated part of Michigan (the U.P.) I haven't seen anywhere near the issues reported here about Colorado and Oregon.

Cheryl said...

Alex Berenson, who also has a lawsuit against Biden for Covid censorship. The book is eye-opening.

Iman said...

I see you’ve already embraced the power of “and”, so I shall refrain from giving unsolicited advice.

Deep State Reformer said...

Elites are always for a "reform" that involves "harm reduction" (so-called) but it's an interesting phenomenon that any criminalized vice that brings in additional revenue to state & local government automatically gets approved at some point. Go figure? In Michigan first it was a state income tax, then a lottery, a sales tax, then casinos, needle exchanges, and since 2018 cannabis. This process works in reverse too otherwise tobacco would have been illegal a long time ago instead of legal with ever increasing taxes on it, bc the money.

Iman said...

Perhaps you are just naturally high on your own “supply”?

Iman said...

Anybody remember a 1970s poster (might even have been National Lampoon) that had side-by-side depictions of “Coke Alley” and “Pot Place”?

It was as funny as Hell. “Coke Alley” was inhabited by furtive rats doing bad, evil things while “Pot Place” looked like a prosperous street with a Captain Kangaroo/Mr. Green Jeans vibe, lol.

Gospace said...

Reading all the comments I'm obviously unqualified to add unique insights. Am I the only one commenting who has never used - or even thought of using- marijuana or any other illegal drugs?

Especially from smoking. The idea of deliberately inhaling hot noxious gasses into my lungs, for fun, even good ol' legal tobacco, has simply never appealed to me.

Jim Gust said...

Yes, I took a couple hits of something my son and his friend were smoking, and within a few minutes I felt so paranoid that I went to bed to try to sleep it off. As a result, I still haven't tried those gummies I bought in Massachusetts about five years ago, even though they are supposedly mild potency.

narciso said...

I haven't either and I would never touch the stuff, perhaps my life was too sheltered, if Soros and his man Nadleman is pushing something it's probably a bad idea

n.n said...

George "Fentanyl" Floyd syndrome is a progressive condition with thousands of victims annually.

Christopher B said...

Ditto, though I do regularly consume alcohol

Rabel said...

Some time ago a friend was telling me that the legal, hemp-derived Delta-8 THC products sold in convenience stores (as opposed to the illegal Delta-9 THC in marijuana) were just as strong a the real thing with an adequate dose.

I told him that was BS and while there might be some mild intoxication resulting from use they wouldn't sell it openly if it was as claimed.

He brought me a single, store-bought Delta-8 gummie. I tried it to prove my argument and ... boy was I wrong. Real wrong.

It was a heavy dose, but I am amazed this is going on. There are local efforts to get it off the unregulated market.

Mason G said...

"Am I the only one..."

No. I could have written your post. And, BTW... Christopher B's.

typingtalker said...

" ... an unintended public health experiment ... "

... and nobody is tracking the results in any systematic way. On the other hand, there don't seem to have been any results as horrible as was predicted oh so many years ago.

Rabel said...

FYI, I experienced my first disappearing comment. It showed up after posting then - gone.

FullMoon said...

Of the presidential candidates, Which has both enjoyed the drug high from smoking illegal-at -the- time marijuana and excessive alcohol consumption?

Slightly high, or mildly intoxicated, probably not a consideration while making important decisions.

FullMoon said...

You high when it happened?

Mr Wibble said...

It's already in the works. The DEA is in the process of rescheduling it to Schedule III.

Goldenpause said...

In 2014 the New York Times Editorial Board stated "The federal government should repeal the ban on marijuana." It argued that "There is honest debate among scientists about the health effects of marijuana, but we believe that the evidence is overwhelming that addiction and dependence are relatively minor problems, especially compared with alcohol and tobacco. Moderate use of marijuana does not appear to pose a risk for otherwise healthy adults. Claims that marijuana is a gateway to more dangerous drugs are as fanciful as the “Reefer Madness” images of murder, rape and suicide."

See ttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html.

Now it runs an article which states: "The drug, legal in much of the country, is widely seen as nonaddictive and safe. For some users, these assumptions are dangerously wrong."

I am not going to hold my breath until the Times apologizes for its role in unleashing this unintended public health experiment.

FullMoon said...

Claims that marijuana is a gateway to more dangerous drugs are as fanciful as the “Reefer Madness” images of murder, rape and suicide."

Used to be many same dealers selling weed would be selling and/or offering other drugs. Never been to a dispensary, but suspect generally speaking, no free samples of coke or crank.

DINKY DAU 45 said...

Humans will always use crutches when they haven't learned to meditate, learn relaxation techniques, beside using a substance to alter their mind and mood.Its a drug and teaching your grandkids that you like to do drugs or you feel guilty and hide it from then but pop open a beer is not great role modelling.Old people doing drugs look foolish of any kind alcohol, heroin pot, mushrooms STay in reality learn a positive form of unwin ding without mind altering mood changing substances plus you stink like the drug.Dopes do dope!

Tina Trent said...

That was funny. It was based on the famous Hogarth print, Beer Street and Gin Lane. Everyone was fat but happy and productive on Beer Street. Gin Lane was a nightmare scene, with a slattern woman dropping an infant off her breast, and other horrors.

It had to be National Lampoon, or maybe Mad Magazine. They seemed so subversive when I was a kid.

Quaestor said...

How does Dinky account for those who don't use drugs, alcohol, or other "crutches" and yet do not meditate or follow any of the hermetic regimens alluded to?

Tina Trent said...

I don't know many adult pot smokers, but the ones I have known smoked every day, and pretty much all day, and it definitely destabilized them. And this was before edibles, legalization, normalization, and the explosion of the marijuana industry.

Psychedelics are next. Cocaine third. The nonprofits of OSI used to be much more open about their plans. I don't have a dog in the marijuana fight (I better not...), but I feel for today's parents.

David53 said...

You're not doing it right.

Rusty said...

My resting heart rate is somewhere around 50. It's been in the low to mid 40s. My Dr. advised it might not be a good idea to get high if it goes any lower.

Mikey NTH said...

I expect someone to compile statistics from the courts and emergency rooms.

mikee said...

Pullling smoke from burning vegetation into your lungs can't be good for you. The added effects of tars, nicotines, THC, etc., are there, too. I, for one, think only government supplied SOMA pills should be used, to avoid any personal travel to the pschotropics of cancer.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

I don't understand why you think that saying shit that other people applaud you for makes it true. Just because it's fun to say doesn't make it fit the facts. Go back to point zero, as I have done a few times now. Bring no assumptions. Look at the numbers, where the government and experts told the truth, where they didn't, and where it's mixed. Look at actual overall death rates and covid specific death rates nationwide and worldwide, not YouTube anecdotes.

Then go be embarrassed for a while.

Assistant Village Idiot said...

Alan Green at Geisel Medical School (Dartmouth, Mary Hitchcock) did the actual research (what a concept!) on the influence of marijuana on psychiatric illnesses for a couple of decades. Died about five years ago.

People who are curious about what the actual data says might want to look that up.