Althouse: "The 2024 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded on Friday to the Japanese organization Nihon Hidankyo, a grass-roots movement of atomic bomb survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

১১ অক্টোবর, ২০২৪

"The 2024 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded on Friday to the Japanese organization Nihon Hidankyo, a grass-roots movement of atomic bomb survivors from Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

"The survivors 'help us to describe the indescribable, to think the unthinkable, and to somehow grasp the incomprehensible pain and suffering caused by nuclear weapons,' Jorgen Watne Frydnes, the chairman of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, said during his announcement on Friday. Mr. Frydnes added that 'extraordinary efforts' by survivors of the U.S. nuclear attack in Japan, including those who are part of Nihon Hidankyo, 'have contributed greatly to the establishment of the nuclear taboo.' That, he said, had led to a world in which no weapons of that type had been used in war in 80 years."

The NYT reports.

৫৬টি মন্তব্য:

Money Manger বলেছেন...: I'm sure they are a worthy and noble cause. But you get the sense that in many categories, the Nobel committee has already found almost all of the deserving recipients. That they are, pardon the metaphor, scraping the barrel.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৪:২৮ AM
Big Mike বলেছেন...: The survivors would rather have been burned to death in fire bombing raids such as were used in Tokyo?; ১১/১০/২৪, ৪:৪২ AM
Oh Yea বলেছেন...: No Japanese civilians survivors from Okinawa describing how their own army mercilessly used their own civilians in the defense against the Americans?; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:২১ AM
Dave Begley বলেছেন...: Will Bibi get the Nobel Peace Prize when he blows up Iran’s nuke facility?; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:২২ AM
exhelodrvr1 বলেছেন...: Are the members of the US military whose lives were spared by not having to invade prize recipients, too? They are also survivors of the atomic bombs.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:৩৭ AM
DanTheLurker বলেছেন...: If you want to honor the folks who maintain the nuclear taboo, I recommend United States Strategic Command. Peace is our profession, after all.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:৪৭ AM
rehajm বলেছেন...: Suspiciously devoid of trendy leftie causes…the sort of Nobel in Economics will prolly make up for it…; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:৫০ AM
rhhardin বলেছেন...: All the Japanese on the island at that point were not worth the life of a single additional American soldier. Fortunately the Emperor told them to knock off the fighting to the death and cooperate with the Americans. Deal struck, we were the best of friends. Different rules.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৫:৫০ AM
tcrosse বলেছেন...: The Vietnamese I've talked to thought we didn't nuke the Japanese enough. The Chinese think something similar.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:০০ AM
mongo বলেছেন...: Everyone hates everyone around the world. Except Canada. No one hates Canada.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:১১ AM
mongo বলেছেন...: With respect to our hostess, Bob Dylan winning the Literature prize is a great example of Money Manger's comment.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:১৩ AM
Oh Yea বলেছেন...: এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:১৫ AM
Rocco বলেছেন...: As are the Japanese whose lives were spared, too.

The US military started minting Purple Hearts in anticipation of the number of killed or wounded US servicemen in the invasion. They are still issuing medals from that stockpile.

And Operation Downfall in Japan would have gone a lot worse than Operation Overlord in Normandy.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:২৭ AM
Ann Althouse বলেছেন...: "With respect to our hostess, Bob Dylan winning the Literature prize is a great example of Money Manger's comment."

Tell that to Philip Roth; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৩০ AM
John henry বলেছেন...: Big Mike beat me to it

my first thought was Tokyo. Ifyou look at the aftermath of the 1945 Tokyo bombing and the aftermath of the Hiroshima bombing there's not much difference.

they're probably is a difference in death toll with more people dying in Tokyo then Hiroshima but I'll bet not one person in 10 has even ever heard of the Tokyo bombing. Maybe five people out of 10 in this group here.

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৩৩ AM
John henry বলেছেন...: On net, after subtracting the deaths, Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved 500,000 to a million Japanese lives.

Women and children mainly wh would have died defending against an invasion.

Plus a hundred thousand us deaths

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৩৮ AM
John henry বলেছেন...: Operation meeting house, bombing of Tokyo march 9/10 1945 killed 100,000 per Wikipedia.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৪৪ AM
Kirk Parker বলেছেন...: John Henry,

"Maybe five people out of 10 in this group here."

Nah, we're all completely preoccupied with thinking about the Roman Empire.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৫১ AM
John henry বলেছেন...: On the day of Japanese surrender there were still 3 million Japanese troops fighting in China. For a day or so there was some doubt as to whether they would obey the emporer and surrender.

After the surrender there was a contingent of Japanese officers who thought the emporer had betrayed Japan and tried to kill him so they could fight on.

"thank God for the Atomic Bomb" - William Manchester

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৫২ AM
gilbar বলেছেন...: And Toyko was only day one, of Operation Meetinghouse.
By August, the Only cities in Japan with more than 50,000 were the ones being "saved " for abombing; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৫৬ AM
Oh Yea বলেছেন...: More Japanese civilians would have died if the US invaded the Japanese home islands. The atomic bombs not only saved lives of US personnel and that of our allies, but they also saved Japanese lives.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৫৭ AM
typingtalker বলেছেন...: " ... That, he said, had led to a world in which no weapons of that type had been used in war in 80 years."

We need a world where no weapons of any type are used. Don't worry, Kamala is on it.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৬:৫৭ AM
Dixcus বলেছেন...: You really need a WWIII tag, Ann. And include this post as the obvious sign that one is coming.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৭:২২ AM
Eric the Fruit Bat বলেছেন...: The prospect of total annihilation is especially problematic for the Japanese who have yet to come up with a good explanation for what happens to all the ghosts.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৭:৩২ AM
Kirk Parker বলেছেন...: "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb" -- isn't that Paul Fussel, rather than Manchester?; ১১/১০/২৪, ৭:৩৭ AM
Randomizer বলেছেন...: The Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to AI researchers who don't have anything to do with physics. Money Manger is correct.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৭:৫৭ AM
chuck বলেছেন...: You don't need high tech to kill a lot of people. Tamerlane is estimated to have killed maybe 17 million. Heck, I recall a description of a pregnant women being beaten to death with a hoe in Cambodia. Weapons aren't the problem, people are.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৭:৫৮ AM
MadTownGuy বলেছেন...: Not to mention the Japanese Military's encouragement of the civilians on Saipan to join them in suicide rather than being captured by the evil Americans.
The forgotten survivors of ‘war without mercy’ in the Pacific; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:০৬ AM
Aggie বলেছেন...: An illustrative list of Nobel Prize recipients could conceivably be prepared by the Babylon Bee. I'm so old I remember when somebody got one for doing absolutely nothing.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:১৮ AM
Kakistocracy বলেছেন...: A visit to the Hiroshima Peace Memorial is as sobering and soul-searching as one to Auschwitz-Birkenau, and should be a prerequisite for all those who wish to deal in modern international affairs.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:১৯ AM
Aggie বলেছেন...: I second that.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:২০ AM
hawkeyedjb বলেছেন...: "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb" - I think it was actually my father, who turned 25 on Nagasaki Day while he was preparing for the invasion of Japan.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:২১ AM
hawkeyedjb বলেছেন...: "The survivors 'help us to describe the indescribable, to think the unthinkable, and to somehow grasp the incomprehensible pain and suffering..."

This is a trite and clichéd formulation. The results of the bombs is not indescribable - it has been described in a million ways in countless tomes over the decades. It is not unthinkable - the bombs have actually been used, and will be used again as soon as Iran has one. And the pain and suffering are not incomprehensible - they are the direct result of the hideous, barbaric, unspeakably cruel suffering inflicted by Japanese on their neighbors and enemies.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:২৭ AM
Maynard বলেছেন...: It is still a better decision than to award the prize to Obama for what?

Being a well-spoken, clean (half) Black man?; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:৩২ AM
mikee বলেছেন...: It is BS that the Hiroshima activists had any significant role in preventing nuke use for the past 80 years. What prevented nuclear weapons use was the certain knowledge of nuclear exchange upon nuke use - MAD. Using a nuke guarantees receipt of same.

The Nobel Peace Prize Committee can see lightning and hear thunder, especially regarding world events. Every few years they award an anti-nuke group with a Prize, yet ignore those who actually stop nuke use, like Israel when it eliminated Iraq's nuke program. The Nobel now goes to the activists who pointed out what everyone worldwide has known since 1945: nukes hurt people.

I'm betting on use of nukes by Iran or Korea or Russia within a few years, because incredible ignorance doesn't combine well with nuclear weaponry. The Nobel Prize as predictor of upcoming disaster is a horrifying prospect of civilizational destruction.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৮:৫৬ AM
dbp বলেছেন...: The atom bombs were dropped over 79 years ago. I have a bit of trouble finding much value in the recollections of, "survivors," most of whom were young children, who went on to live another 8 decades. Their memories, vague as they must be by now, aren't much different from what people subject to conventional warfare would have experienced. This is especially complicated by the fact that because of the atomic attacks, far fewer Japanese ended up having such suffering visited upon them.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৯:০৮ AM
Sally327 বলেছেন...: Alfred Nobel, the man who left the money in his will to create the Nobel Prizes, was the inventor of dynamite. Dynamite? Say hello to Fat Man and Little Boy.

There may have been progress in keeping countries from using nuclear weaons again but I don't think there's been much progress in keeping countries from wanting to have those weapons.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৯:১৯ AM
Aggie বলেছেন...: ......and I bet it didn't take any of you more than a couple of seconds to know who I'm talking about.; ১১/১০/২৪, ৯:২০ AM
Anthony বলেছেন...: The Peace Prize has been a joke at least since Rigoberta Menchu.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৩১ AM
Darkisland বলেছেন...: Paul Fussell wrote a famous essay by that name which he then used as the name of a collection of essays.

Fussell credits William Manchester with the quote:

After Biak the enemy withdrew to deep caverns. Rooting them
out became a bloody business which reached its ultimate horrors
in the last months of the war. You think of the lives which
would have been lost in an invasion of Japan’s home islands—a
staggering number of Americans but millions more of Japanese—
and you thank God for the atomic bomb.

William Manchester in his memoir of the Pacific war "Goodbye Darkness"

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৪০ AM
Darkisland বলেছেন...: Link to Fussell's essay https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kzb22Hz7NMoH-A5uj3RhIJXGj2867cZ0/view?pli=1

A couple of other quotes:

“When I read that we will fight the Japs for years if necessary and will sacrifice hundreds of thousands if we must, I always like to check from where he’s talking: it’s seldom out here.” Lt(jg) John F Kennedy, 1943

And my favorite:

On the other hand, John Kenneth Galbraith is persuaded that the Japanese
would have surrendered surely by November without an invasion. He thinks
the A-bombs were unnecessary and unjustified because the war was ending
anyway. The A-bombs meant, he says, “a difference, at most, of two or three
weeks.” But at the time, with no indication that surrender was on the way,
the kamikazes were sinking American vessels, the Indianapolis was sunk
(880 men killed), and Allied casualties were running to over 7,000 per week.
“Two or three weeks,” says Galbraith.

Two weeks more means 14,000 more killed and wounded, three weeks
more, 21,000. Those weeks mean the world if you’re one of those thousands
or related to one of them. During the time between the dropping of the
Nagasaki bomb on August 9 and the actual surrender on the fifteenth, the
war pursued its accustomed course: on the twelfth of August eight captured
American fliers were executed (heads chopped off); the fifty-first United
States submarine, Bonefish, was sunk (all aboard drowned); the destroyer
Callaghan went down, the seventieth to be sunk, and the Destroyer Escort
Underhill was lost.

That’s a bit of what happened in six days of the two or three weeks posited by Galbraith. What did he do in the war? He worked in the Office of Price Administration in Washington. I don’t demand that he experience having his ass shot off. I merely note that he didn’t.

Emphasis added
Galbraith was a Canadian who escaped to Harvard and DC

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৪৭ AM
Jupiter বলেছেন...: I beg to differ.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৪৭ AM
Darkisland বলেছেন...: No doubt. I suspect that millions of American's said the same thing. Including my father who was on a merchant marine ship in the western pacific at the time.

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫০ AM
Darkisland বলেছেন...: No doubt. I suspect that millions of American's said the same thing. Including my father who was on a merchant marine ship in the western pacific at the time.

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫১ AM
Jupiter বলেছেন...: " ... That, he said, had led to a world in which no weapons of that type had been used in war in 80 years."
Yeah, we've had a good run. Think we'll make 90?; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫২ AM
Darkisland বলেছেন...: Without high explosive like dynamite, there would have been no fat man or little boy.

John Henry; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫২ AM
Lazarus বলেছেন...: Probably a worthy group but not very high on the list of people and things that "established the nuclear taboo." It does say something for longevity in Japan that there are still people to accept the award, while so many preachers, politicians, philosophers, film makers and writers who contributed to that "taboo" aren't around any more.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫৫ AM
Lazarus বলেছেন...: Probably a worthy group but not very high on the list of people and things that "established the nuclear taboo." It does say something for longevity in Japan that there are still people to accept the award, while so many preachers, activists, politicians, philosophers, filmmakers and writers who contributed to that "taboo" aren't around anymore.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫৭ AM
Robin Goodfellow বলেছেন...: This reminded me of Douglas Adams:

“ The survivors 'help us to describe the indescribable, to think the unthinkable …”

“To wrestle withe the very ineffable itself, and see if we might eff it after all.”; ১১/১০/২৪, ১০:৫৯ AM
Rusty বলেছেন...: Not if Harris and the Democrats have anything to say.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১২:০২ PM
Michael K বলেছেন...: The Japanese also had orders to kill the remaining POWs if an invasion occurred. That is how many survived the slave labor.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১২:২৯ PM
The Vault Dweller বলেছেন...: I think the US, the Soviets, and then many other countries having enough nukes to destroy everyone on the world several times over did much more to establish the taboo on nuclear weapons rather than this group I've never heard of.; ১১/১০/২৪, ১:১০ PM
JAORE বলেছেন...: My father served in the European theater when Germany surrendered. He fully expected to be sent to the Pacific should a ground invasion of Japan ensue. Thank God for the atomic bomb.; ১১/১০/২৪, ২:২০ PM
Hassayamper বলেছেন...: I heartily hate Canada's government, and pretty much every one of their politicians other than Bernier, Poilievre, and a handful of Albertans whose names I can't recall.; ১১/১০/২৪, ২:২৭ PM
Hassayamper বলেছেন...: "thank God for the Atomic Bomb" - William Manchester

My old man always said the same thing. He was a fighter pilot who spent the summer of 1945 training for the invasion of the Japanese home islands. Their squadron intel officer told them that the brass expected 90 percent of them to be killed.; ১১/১০/২৪, ২:৩৫ PM
Joanne Jacobs বলেছেন...: My uncle was an infantry 2nd lieutenant on a troop ship heading for Japan when the Japanese surrendered. He'd been trained for the invasion. My father had been ordered to fly over the "hump" -- the Himalayas -- to China to serve with National Chinese artillery against the Japanese (and Mao's forces). The A-bomb may have saved both their lives.; ১২/১০/২৪, ১:০৯ AM