I saw that Kamala Harris, doing a town hall on CNN last night, "agreed" that Trump meets "the definition of a fascist," but she did not, herself, define "fascist," so I wondered what she was doing, embracing a conclusion, calling names. I live in a city where you can get called a "fascist" for venturing that Justice Scalia wrote a well-reasoned opinion. Among left-wingers, the definition of "fascist" is: right-wing. It's a shibboleth. To call someone a "fascist" is to identify yourself as on the left.
So it's a good thing to interpose the idea that a definition is needed, and it's interesting to see that Anderson Cooper did not ask Harris is Trump a fascist. But he did not task her with providing a definition. He just asked her whether Trump met the definition of a fascist. What's a home viewer to do?
I didn't watch the town hall live. Frankly, I didn't know it was on. Which is odd considering that I read the news all day yesterday and it was a 90-minute CNN extravaganza. Hard to hide, one would think. And yet it was hidden from me.
The first headline I saw this morning was "Harris says in CNN town hall she agrees Trump is a fascist" (WaPo). Agrees? Who is she agreeing with? It was confusing, because the article only says that the moderator, Anderson Cooper, asked her if she believed Trump is a fascist. Who is she supposedly agreeing with? I don't think Cooper expressed an opinion. (That would be wrong. He was the moderator. Whatever he may think, he can't properly say it.)
I quickly figure out that this traces back to an October 22 article in the NYT, by Michael S. Schmidt: "As Election Nears, Kelly Warns Trump Would Rule Like a Dictator/John Kelly, the Trump White House’s longest-serving chief of staff, said that he believed that Donald Trump met the definition of a fascist." Boldface added.
In response to a question about whether he thought Mr. Trump was a fascist, Mr. Kelly first read aloud a definition of fascism that he had found online.
Good for Kelly for sensing that a definition is required. Bad for Kelly for just finding something on line and reading it out loud...
“Well, looking at the definition of fascism: It’s a far-right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy,” he said.
... and quickly concluding that the definition is met:
Mr. Kelly said that definition accurately described Mr. Trump.
“So certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running America,” Mr. Kelly said.
He thinks... but didn't do in 4 years in office? When did Trump ever say that the better way to run America is through "centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition [and] belief in a natural social hierarchy"?
Are you wondering where on line Kelly found his definition? Make the most obvious guess and you will be right:
Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, and social outlook that emphasizes the intrinsic worth of the individual. Individualists promote realizing one's goals and desires, valuing independence and self-reliance, and advocating that the interests of the individual should gain precedence over the state or a social group, while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or institutions such as the government. Individualism makes the individual its focus, and so starts "with the fundamental premise that the human individual is of primary importance in the struggle for liberation."
To a leftist, that sounds right-wing and... ironically... fascist. But we only have 12 days left. We can only use short nasty words and sentence fragments. No time left for the extra credit assignment: Using the Wikipedia definition of "fascism," outline the argument that the Democratic Party presents the greater danger.
Posts
271 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 271 of 271Except that you are engaging in historical revisionism. The billionaires are doing their traditional part in a fascist state - doing what the government orders in exchange for government largess. No different than Damler Benz, and the other largest German companies, using free (often Jewish) slave labor in exchange for doing what the national government demanded.
Let me note that I am not Jewish, so didn’t have relatives in concentration camps helping to build German vehicles. I like my German cars. I have been driving them now for 37 years, after buying my first Audi. Two years ago, I bought an Audi Q7 so why partner could get in and out of it. She has always been a Mercedes fan, and when she couldn’t stand the Q7s fough ride over the horrid streets in Las Vegas, I bought my first Mercedes, a CLS 450, a similarly sized SUV. And mostly love it. It’s just precise, where the Audi is sloppy, except for driving on windy roads, where the Audi hugs the road, and the Mercedes rides like a boat. But that’s why Damler Benz kept popping up in my diatribes.
Anti-Fascism means Communism. They aren’t anti authoritarian or anti totalitarianist. They are communists.
I'll try to use small words then.
The problem with your both-sidesism in this case is that we've had years (in some cases decades) to note the words and actions of Harris and other Democrat leaders are congruent with the words and actions of self-avowed Marxists, and their party willing incorporates self-avowed Marxists like Bernie Sanders. On the other side the evidence presented is mostly out of context snippets and perjured testimony, as well as a long history of using the same smear against a broad range of Republican candidates (before erasing the mustache from their images when the next Hitler comes along).
Isn't it interesting, the expert, corrupting influence of the Progressive Leftist Democrat Party, able to make retired generals and Chiefs of Staff turn and mouth the most pious, offensive diatribes against their former boss - all without the edifying features like evidence or other trifling details? Simple, toxic accusations without evidence - And it's all done without comment or clarification: Trump is the absolute worst, a Dictator ! a Fascist ! a Hitler ! ..... to say nothing about the character of men that are so easily turned, so easily corrupted and conscripted to the Progressive Cause, to mouth any charge, on command. OR to sign letters of complaint, like the '51 Intelligence Officials.... Sad. Yes, it does feel like final, desperate effort, from the bunkers. We shall see.
Actually Musk has been compelled by the State to participate. They are illegally applying regulations to his businesses and threatening him with jail for opposing the Regime.
Musk made enemies with the Regime when he put the Government Collusion with the prior owners of Twitter, the core symptom of a fascist state, out there for everyone to see.
Mark is upset this his fascism was made plain for everyone to see. And yes Mark does know that he is the baddy.
Campus speech codes abound. Free health care and guaranteed jobs is Bernie Sanders and AOC. Abortion too. Free, of course.
The old traditional monarchies, communist countries, and fascist countries all share the commonality of authoritarianism or government control. In each, the government is not restrained from doing what it wants and is above the laws applicable to the rest of the country.
So the issue is who is more authoritarian, Trump or Biden/Kamala? I’d say Biden/Kamala. They aren’t as authoritarian as Bernie or his fellow
W communists like AOC. But they are more authoritarian than Trump. They don’t respect the law and enforce it for their own ends. If Trump we’re like them he would have the DOJ indict Obama for his Netflix payoff
"The donor class, composed of the ten or twelve thousand wealthiest families in America, is really getting panicky (again) about Trump ending their thirty-year-running neoliberal gravy train."
These are the people who support Harris to the tune of a billion dollars? I'm sure they don't expect anything for their largesse …
Don’t forget the monarchies that prevailed in Europe for a thousand years.
Trump can't be just like Hitler - Hitler would have never eaten at McDonalds
The generals thing is a bit weird because Hitler's generals, by and large, weren't all that deferential to him. A bunch of them (e.g. Rommel) were loosely implicated in the bomb plot. Even the field officers who were more loyal to Hitler, e.g. Walter Model, were perfectly willing to disregard Hitler's orders when they disagreed with them. The real toadies were mostly staff officers like Keitel. Hitler got more control in the very last months of the war, after the bomb plot conspirators were rounded up and executed, but overall, Hitler's generals were pretty willing to talk back to him. If you want absolute loyalty, the Wehrmacht isn't a great example.
Mussolini became a Fascist in the Lenin years, and was Prime Minister of a Fascist government a couple of years before Stalin came to power.
Tesla is not a car company but it does a good impersonation
Although its vehicles are yielding more profit, most of the $750bn carmaker’s value hangs on things that are yet to exist.
Tesla’s rising profitability sets it apart among carmakers. Rivals such as Volkswagen and Stellantis have warned of a squeeze from weaker demand and rising costs. General Motors’ electric vehicles are still lossmaking. But there is another thing that sets Tesla apart: against its peers, it is barely a carmaker at all.
True, Elon Musk’s company reported $20bn of vehicle sales in the third quarter. In a pleasant surprise for investors, the cost of making them fell to an all-time low. Tesla remains a long way from the 20mn car sales target it once set for 2030, but it is on course to meet the more modest 1.8mn analysts expect this year, according to Visible Alpha. Musk said his “best guess” was that output could expand by up to 30 per cent next year.
A rising share of Tesla’s revenue and profit, though, comes from other things. One is selling carbon credits to other carmakers. That brought in $2.5bn of revenue in the past year, equivalent to about a fifth of the company’s total operating cash flow. The other is Tesla’s blossoming battery and solar panel business, growing at 52 per cent year on year, and with higher gross margins than its cars.
Look closely at Tesla’s $750bn valuation, and it starts to become clear that cars play only a bit part. Assume Musk can make 6mn vehicles by 2030, that they sell for $35,000 each and that investors value a good car business at twice its forecast revenue, the highest multiple Toyota commanded in the past couple of decades. That suggests Tesla’s car business is worth $420bn six years from now, or about $240bn today after accounting for the time value of money.
That leaves more than $500bn unaccounted for. Batteries make up a chunk of it. So might the self-driving robotaxis that Musk touted in an underwhelming live event this month. In the future, he says all the company’s vehicles will be one giant autonomous fleet. But it is hard to say what that version of Tesla is worth, since it is yet to exist, and the cost of building it is decidedly unclear.
Then there is Optimus, the humanoid robot that Musk believes could be worth at least $10tn in long-term market value — in other words, at least 13 times more than the whole of Tesla today. Is that plausible? Impossible to say. But it brings home the real point about Tesla, which is that at $750bn, it is largely an investment in Musk’s imagination. While the likes of Volvo, Volkswagen and General Motors battle to sell cars, Tesla sells chutzpah — and investors are still buying.
To summarise, it is a meme stock for a profitable company.
Trump has to be looking at the 70% of American Jews voting Democrat while wondering "why am I bothering with these people?"
A couple of my friends are conservative Jews who are among the 30% that will vote for Trump, and they are powerfully disgusted with their co-religionists.
Trump stupidly calls Harris a Marxist, which she obviously is not
I don't think that is obvious at all. Her father was unquestionably a Marxist, and Marxist nomenclature and policies permeate today's Democrat party.
What is "equity" but a restatement of "From everyone according to ability; to everyone according to needs" ?
Trump stupidly calls Harris a Marxist, which she obviously is not
I don't think that's obvious at all. Certainly her father was an unrepentant self-avowed Marxist, she is quite chummy with others of the same sort, and Marxist nomenclature and policies permeate today's Democrat Party.
What is "equity" but a restatement of "From each according to ability, to each according to needs" ?
Here's a definition of facism by someone who knew a little about it: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." -Benito Mussolini. Which party does that sound like?
As in all things, Wikipedia is tailored to appease lefties, but take away "ultranationalism" and the Wikipedia definition nails Democrats too.
Notice that all Rich has are transparent lies.
Lincoln was certainly called a "tyrant".
Mike Petrik said...
Our political discourse is embarrassing. Harris stupidly calls Trump a fascist, which he obviously is not. Trump stupidly calls Harris a Marxist, which she obviously is not. But go ahead, AA commenters, rebuke me for being only half right, thereby exposing your charmingly irrepressible ultracrepidarianism.
10/24/24, 8:21 AM
Trump uses name calling as filler material in between talking about the things that matter to The People.
Democrats...well, that's all they have got, because talking about the things they want to do fits the definition of Fascism.
A simple Appeal to Authority; if those with power (sic) say it, it must be true. All praise to The Government!
Until the “sucker and losers” story came out, Trump repeatedly praised the job that John Kelly did in the White House, saying he “did a fantastic job,” “served with distinction,” was “one of the finest people I know,” and was “a true star of my Administration.”
It’s all fun and games until you stop saying nice things about him.
The common definitions of Nazism and Fascism are wrong! Nazism is far closer to Stalinism in form and practice, with the major difference being National(the German Tribe) vs Internationalism.
There are a series of talks on Youtube by TikHistory (https://www.youtube.com/@TheImperatorKnight) such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrmEhK6PXnY What do REAL Fascists actually believe?
Fascists try to put their political rivals in prison on bogus charges...just like Biden/Harris is doing right now!
Actually, the NAZIs were not capitalist. Think of China where the party exerts control over business. China control is increasing over the free market experiment while the NAZIs had party members appointed to control the company from the top to the bottom floor worker and unions,
Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism - https://www.amazon.com/Vampire-Economy-Doing-Business-Fascism/dp/161016038X
No problem, Leland is on it!
Like Rush Limbaugh, he's not Far Right, he's Right So Far!
Bich losing his mind some more today.
Freder = Left-wing
Left-wing = Sucks dicks
You know that all these eighth grade insults do nothing (certainly doesn't bother me in the least) other than demonstrate your immaturity (Michael K is one of the worst offenders and he is in his eighties).
CHICAGO, Oct. 25 -- A Republican victory on election day will bring a Fascistic threat to American freedom that is even more dangerous than the perils from communism and extreme right "crackpots," President Truman asserted here tonight.
New York Times October 25, 1945
https://www.nytimes.com/1948/10/26/archives/president-likens-dewey-to-hitler-as-fascists-tool-says-when-bigots.html
John Henry
Everyone knows that Wikipedia has a leftist bias to it. (Although a lot of people won't admit it.) It only makes sense that they would take the Britannica definition and tack "far-right" onto it. The editors at Wikipedia are basically telling us that it's not possible to be a fascist if you're on the political left.
Someone leveraging dirt on Kelly? Was he one of the 50+ experts who pledged the Hunter laptop story was "disinformation"? Did he decry that election interference?
Harris is into "equity". Label that as you will.
How outraged has she been about guvmint leaning on platforms to become obedient publishers at the expense of the 1st A? Yeah..doesn't even mouth a need to "have a discussion".
When I read about Trump's comment, I immediately thought of Major General Hans Oster.
The Cowboy Poet Ghost of Harry Reid reminds us it doesn't matter if it's true or not.
I will be pleasantly surprised if they do hold off on the worst.
He thinks... but didn't do in 4 years in office? When did Trump ever say that the better way to run America is through "centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition [and] belief in a natural social hierarchy"?
He might have been foiled by the "deep state" the first time around, although I attribute his failure to incompetence. His rhetoric has gotten much darker since he lost the 2020 election.
Okay, maybe Trump hasn't advocated "centralized autocracy" although he has stated he wants to be a dictator on the first day of his new term. As for militarism and forcible suppression of the opposition", he has pondered the use of the National Guard and even active duty military against the "enemy within", along with calling his opponents vermin and traitors. And he certainly has been touting a natural social hierarchy. He often cites his own "genius" (along with that of his uncle), and attributes it to "good genes". He is constantly exhorting against the criminals, mental patients and prisoners he claims (without evidence) are invading the country.
He has also, which you did not mention, advocated withdrawing the FCC licenses of networks he doesn't like, which not only is against "free speech" but also shows his total ignorance about how television networks operate (the legacy media broadcasters, NBC, ABC, and CBS, hold a total of about 80 licenses between them)
Which belies Trump's total ignorance of history.
Its blue-green. No its green-blue.
Nazi's provided, jobs, free healthcare (especially the Juice), etc.
Jobs. Thats how you get citizens to turn on each other.
Democrat politicians read the manual, their voters didnt.
McCullough said...
"If you were born in the east part of Germany in 1933 you got a dozen years of Fascism followed by 45 years of Communism."
If you were born in the east part of Germany in 1933, you'd be in Poland today. Still have the same timeline, though.
"Of course the entrenched system is crying that they world will fall apart if he does it himself. But c'est la vie. I hope he pulls a Milieu chainsaw to the thing, maybe a twitter like firing of 70%. I don't expect he will do that, but oh how joyous that would be."
Twitter/X provides a useful service. The federal government? You could probably thin the herd by 90% without suffering any decline in the ability to provide for the country as the Constitution authorizes. In fact, such a thinning would probably be a net benefit for working, taxpaying Americans.
He has more to lose? Who knew?
To paraphrase Susan Sontag, Fascism is just Communism with a fashion sense.
"As for militarism and forcible suppression of the opposition", he has pondered the use of the National Guard and even active duty military against the "enemy within","
Oh, bullshit.
I believe that you are correct. Just saw a video from Germany 1964, a protest over a society of former SS soldiers gathering for a reunion. Many were, if not supportive, at least empathetic with old soldiers wanting to get together with each other. Those that were protesting were level headed and stating arguments civilly while listening to counter arguments.
In contrast, today protesters are ignorant ideologues dedicated not to proving the value of their POV, but eliminating any opposition to their dogma.
I am sure someone said this in the above comments, but fascisim is government by a deep state of bureaucrats where power is in the hands of a supreme leader. Per Mussolini, the creator, “ All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.“
But that kind of government is confounded with many other types of government, the Aztecs, the ancient romans, the Ming dynasty, Stalinism, the France of Richelieu, so much so that you can’t tell them apart.
So why talk in terms of this meaningless drivel and not just tell us what specific actions a candidate is going to undertake that you oppose? Because playground name calling is what democrats know best.
Test
Wow the “spam” folder is filling with my posts this week, about 66 pct fail to post!
Bullshit?! Typical response of a Trump supporter: "Well he said it, but what he really meant was . . ."
Your link is weak at best. She says that Bartiromo was asking about election day. If we are talking about violence on election day or any day after that until January 20, Trump has no say in how that will be handled. And although he limited his response to the "enemy within", he did not specify who that enemy is. But in the past, he has frequently mentioned the press, his opposition, and even some fellow Republicans, as "enemies of the people".
"Look closely at Tesla’s $750bn valuation, and it starts to become clear that cars play only a bit part."
No surprise, since the whole point of Tesla, as far as Musk is concerned, is to improve electric generation, storage, and transmission capabilities needed to make Mars habitable. And also develop the capital needed for initial funding of rockets, base infrastructure, and now telecommunications. Rockets are now SpaceX. Base infrastructure is the Boring Company. Telecommunications is Starlink (brand under SpaceX). But Tesla is more than cars. They sell solar roofs, home battery storage systems, EV charging stations, and some wind and solar generation facilities. Also, high-quality industrial batteries for those they need them for more than cars or going to Mars. And now humanoid robots, that would be useful for building infrastructure on Mars until that infrastructure is habitable for actual humans.
"Assume Musk can make 6mn vehicles by 2030"
Why so low, considering they made 1.8mn vehicles so far this year, an increase of 9% YoY. And bich claim 6 years, which would put the number closer to 11mn or with similar growth 13mn vehicles?
"they sell for $35,000 each"
The lowest cash price value of a Tesla vehicle is $46,000. It's only $35,000 to the consumer if you count maximum tax credit and Tesla's claim of saving $6k in the first year on not buying gasoline.
"One is selling carbon credits to other carmakers. That brought in $2.5bn of revenue in the past year"
Almost right. The $2.5bn comes from selling 6.9 gWh of green energy during the quarter (75% increase YoY). Except that is not carbon credits. That's the value of the energy. REC is the carbon credit, which comes on top of the energy value at something like $20 mWh (even as high as $60 mWh according to epa.gov), because the energy produced is from "green" sources.
To summarise (sic), bich really doesn't understand the business any better than Volkswagen or GM.
"So why talk in terms of this meaningless drivel and not just tell us what specific actions a candidate is going to undertake that you oppose?"
Because opposing low inflation, less expensive gas, reduction of administrative state regulations, not starting wars or imprisoning political opponents and increasing the real dollar income of the middle class is not much of a vote-getting strategy when you say this stuff out loud?
Just a guess.
You know what's weak? Taking Trump's quote and turning him into Hitler. Time after time after time I read that this time he's said something that proves he's a fascist wannabe and I go read it and it's just more lefty hyperventilation.
Trump was president for 4 years. Far and away, the greatest abuse of governmental power that occurred in those 4 years was the lawless actions of his enemies as they attempted to put him in jail. Look in the mirror, lefty.
Which "lawless actions of his enemies" during Trump's term are you referring to.
The "investigation" by our intelligence agencies into the Russian hoax.
But we KNOW why she got nominated as VP by the Democrats. She was female and sort-of Black, and SHE WAS NO THREAT TO BIDEN.
She got to be the Democrats' Presidential nominee this year because (a) it was too late in the day for a competitive selection when the world finally discovered that Biden was non compos mentis. and (b) whoever has actually been running the Federal Government wanted her as a useful tool.
What I'd like to know is: Who is running OUR GOVERNMENT? It certainly isn't anyone we voted for (or against).
Your hat is now at 73% full of codswallop.
That is, he operated at the level that would deserve an F in a high school social studies class.
My thought was "Are we in high school?", but you said it better.
If that's supposed to be a criticism of Trump, you should probably avoid using words you don't know the meaning of.
It’s frustrating…
As someone who 3 years ago was facing termination from my job if I didn’t comply with a workplace mandate to inject myself with an untested “vaccine” I can attest to the current regimes fascist tendencies. All the airlines can be considered federal contractors and were beholden to the Govt because of the billions of dollars that were propping them up. Thankfully my company was liberal with allowing religious exemptions so many of us were spared.
Here’s the clip of fascist Biden that’s burned into my memory. It was a very dark time.
https://youtu.be/DHhVz4-kGds?si=5KwWR-67hoeZtb85
Apparently the military academies stopped requiring students to read Hayek a while ago. Is Kelly really that dumb?
Why didn’t Jews drive German cars after the war
Sure they did, I knew Jews of the Communist variety who drove Beetles. The appearance of poverty was probably a selling point. And they were cheap.
This is a fantastic explanation of what we’ve endured for the last 4 years!
”labels that normally contradict each other"
What are you talking about? Mussolini was influenced by both Marx and Lenin's New Economic Policy. He was also the one who extended the Marxist analysis to cover poor countries vs rich countries, a view which is still popular today.
I agree that Trump fits the definition of a "fascist". I do so because "fascist" means whatever the speaker wants it to mean, no more, no less. Fake but accurate.
If we are going to try to do some analysis of Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Co-Prosperity Sphere Japan, Franco's Spain, and some other regimes which could objectively be described as "fascist", Trump is such a poor fit that it is laughable to make the assertion.
Kelly equates dictatorship and fascism. Is there room in there for Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot?
Cliff
When I was in fifth grade, the #1 comeback was: "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." We thought that was so witty. More than 60 years later, I feel public discourse has not moved on.
Yes, and apparently 'for sale' as well.
This is my definition of fascism as well, and I can’t believe that my Democrat / liberal family members and friends cannot see and/or believe that the Democrat Biden-Harris administration are the fascists.
Post a Comment