I'm reading "In a First Among Christians, Young Men Are More Religious Than Young Women/At Grace Church in Waco, Texas, the Generation Z gender divide can be seen in the pews. It has the potential to reshape both politics and family life" (NYT)(that's a gift link so you can read the whole thing and because there are a lot of great photographs of churchgoers).
In the comments over there, one man writes: "Could it be that these young men want a church that tells them they have the right to dominate women? And women don’t want a church like that? I wouldn’t want to be in that group of men in a church like that either. Not all men want it. They are not that insecure."
And one woman writes: "Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny."
And one woman writes: "Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny."
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86 comments:
Women hardest hit…
Perhaps men want to be more like Jesus -- and women just want to continue to be baby killers and blame everything that is wrong in their lives on men
Waco, TX, oddly, is where the ATF/FBI torched the Branch Davidian compound, murdering 76 people, including lots of women and children.
I'd say the more interesting (and troubling) trend is that young women are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into the cult of toxic and fake female empowerment based on their obsession with unconditional abortion and the rejection of motherhood as a worthy and fulfilling life role.
I saw a reference to this at Marginal Revolution and came here to post a link - here you go. The world is turned upside down. Is this about the men, or is this about the women? You decide.
I have seen the future and it is fucked.
Women in the pews has not produced a safe church environment.
The Fed and most of the state governments are at war with traditional Christianity. One of the purposes of the shutdowns was to suppress church attendance, and that strategy has succeeded. Traditional Catholics are targets of government surveillance and labeled “domestic terrorists.” Single women have completely embraced the government as husband. All the rights of women in respect to marriage, divorce and child custody are enforced by the government. Men are entirely on their own with little recourse to the law. Not surprisingly, single women seem to like this. Young men are wise to seek a woman who embraces traditional Christianity in search of a wife. What kind of masochist wants a feminist wife?
My step-cousin's mother told her to go to church to meet a nice man. It worked for her. The church was an Episcopalian offshoot with only male priests and the 1928 Prayer Book.
Or to put it another way, if I were a young man who wanted a wife and family, I’d join an evangelical church in the hope of finding a woman who shared my values and aspirations.
women have been consistently more religious than men, a finding so reliable that some scholars have characterized it as something like a universal human truth.
young woman ARE More religious than men!
it's just that Christianity is NOT their religion.. Secular Whoredom is
The rainbow-flag-pronoun-announcing-pussy-hat female crowd formed a cult with the rise of smartphone social media apps circa 2007. This cult is the consequence of operating with the attention span of a gnat plus 24/7/365 social comparison anxiety. Selfie time...never mind the cliff behind me... Some cult leaders must fall to demonstrate to the other lemmings what not to do...
"Repent and be saved!"
Being a functional human animal means working with biology and nature and biological constraints...and figuring out how to interact with men...never mind what you "think" you want...
We need more data. Are more young men in church, or are there fewer young women attending than in previous cohorts (which were considerably larger for whites), or both?
I hope the men all stay clear of the toxic masculinity commenter.
Was reporter Ruth Graham named after Billy Graham's wife?
I suggest a visit to the Grace Church website. Click on Resources, then Music. You’ll see a pic of a Christian band fronted by 3 women. I leave it to you to try to reconcile this with the NYT article. I’m leaning toward accusing the Times of outright lying.
www.gracewaco.com
"Single women have completely embraced the government as husband." True, and Socialism requires women, men, children, maybe even cats and dogs to embrace the Almighty State as lord and savior.
“Now I'm six hours out on strawberry flats
Trying to get to Waco 'fore it freezes over”
MadTownGuy said...
"...and Socialism requires women, men, children, maybe even cats and dogs to embrace the Almighty State as lord and savior."
In this case the Revolution literally does eat its own.
Men who want to get married will. It just won't be to those women, and I suspect the men will be happier for that.
Progressives and feminists always leave out the part about “being a servant” The Golden Rule when they try to make Christianity sound like The Handmaid or to be blunt, Islam. Which happens to be the cult attracting young female Americans at this time.
I was watching Georgia and Arkansas car chases yesterday and this woman perp came up car chase who would fit right in with the church controversy. Worth listening for at least several minutes.
"Young men are making themselves unmarriagable ..."
Ha! That is some serious cope, right there. You're DAMN RIGHT we are.
Now let's get back to half your assets, maintenance payments, lifetime alimony, child support that isn't required to be spent on the child, 50% divorce rates, no fault divorce, total autonomy on killing children (abortion), total strangers raising the kids that are kept, etc. etc. etc.
Women have priced themselves out of the relationship market and are now trying to cope with why men are responding by making themselves un-marriageable.
We prefer video games, OnlyFans and free porn to the deal women are offering these days.
Divorce is common and young women have friends whose mothers struggled to get a decent job after staying home. These guys want a trad wife and most young women realize how economically vulnerable that leaves them.
Elementary schools are the most effective indoctrination programs for young female children. It has had the twin effects of creating the most leftist young women ever and the most conservative young men in Gen Z. That indoctrination requires rejection of traditional values. I read widely and still do not have a grasp on exactly why this is, but Helen Smith called it the “war on men” or on boys. And it speaks well of the American spirit that when young boys realize they are at war they rebel against the culture fighting that war.
And one woman writes: "Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny."
Woman good, man bad...always. (Geez, it's reading Reddit...)
in the pic that Thomas is talking about (i think?), there appear to be TWO women (and a long haired guy with a guitar (that has a beard in the team pic)).
i'm seeing 4 women, and SEVEN men in the entire Grace Church music team.
join the team!
so, 7 guys for 4 gals.. Pretty much EXACTLY Like the article implied.
Am i seeing it right Thomas?
There are a lot of ways to worship these days that don't involve sitting in a pew on Sunday morning. On-line streaming, for example, became prevalent during the pandemic and I think a lot of churches have continued it in one form or another and most churches have for some time made video recordings of the services available for later viewing.
There are a lot of issues around church attendance generally, I read a book recently that gets into some of this, The Great Dechurching.
Marxists are well aware that if you destabilize women, the foundation for the family unit crumbles. They desperately want to do for the rest of America what the Great Society did for poor Americans and a large part of Black America. In inflation-adjusted dollars, Black household incomes have dropped every decade since the 1950s due almost entirely to the Government "helping" them.
There is a Congregationalist church nearby, that has steadily lost attendance over the years. I've heard it's now below a dozen.
The property is on three beautiful acres. Easily worth $2 million. I've wondered how dissolution works in these cases. Sell it at market and distribute the proceeds to the members ? Perhaps I join now.
If they don’t like Christianity, wait until they see what fills the void.
Our Evangelical church has more women than men. And it’s not close. All the women in church that my spouse and I know are all pro-life.
Back when men stayed away from church, the problem was that men don't want to settle down and become responsible, sober adults. Now that men are settling down and going to church, the problem is again, men; who are buying into toxic masculinity.
The new york times knows about christians whats the punchline
Do not marry American women.
Do not marry American women.
Do not marry American women.
Repeat thricely while staring in a mirror and lovely buxom Brazilian women shall appear.
That’s probably an American Anglican Church. We attend one in Charleston. It’s a terrific congregation.
Taking that rebellion idea up a bit further, young men will not join the armed forces or fight in the elite's foreign wars either.
The entire country try appears headed to some kind of rock bottom: physically, economically, spiritually. The only thing left now is to care for yourself and your family then work with others to build something new out of the ashes.
3 in 10 GenZ women identify as LGBTQ.
Men are gonna have to look elsewhere for female companionship, maybe foreign countries. But then the men there may have a say in the matter!
Glad to be an old dude. I grew up in a much better time.
The quoted comments are illustrative. Sounds like something someone in a cult would say.
It's princesses all the way down. Disney princesses that is. No mortal man can compete with the house of mouse. Women never stood a chance.
Churches are the one organization that do not attempt to brainwash men that they are toxic and that their natural inclinations are evil.
If she thinks various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny are to blame, wait till she hears about passport bros! Every year, their dark warlock cult grows larger and larger as they move about the earth in the shadows searching for partners that haven't taken the holy and pure SSRI sacrament.
Any white guy who is marginally handsome, over 5'8", in decent shape, with a bit of coin and seeking something serious outclasses 90% of the competition in most other countries on this planet. Can it cause tension among the natives? Sure, you just don't be a dick about it.
If you're 6' or over and in very good shape you don't even need the coin or the intentions to have women outside America throwing themselves at you.
The statistics are about church attendance across the entire GenZ cohort, but the story focuses on one very theologically conservative Southern Baptist Church in Waco, Texas. If you are a young, liberated, progressive female who reads the NYT, the Southern Baptists are going to look very scary. This is quite possibly why the story is focused on Grace and Hope: fill the sceptical young women with visions of a Handmaid's Tale kind of future as a Christian.
Do these statistics hold up across the wide range of theology in American Christianity? What about a look at the Roman Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists and Episcopalians? Many young women are being ordained in the mainline protestant churches. From my casual observations I would guess that at least half the newly ordained clergy in the Presbyterian, Methodist, and Episcopal Churches now are women.
The story's focus tells me a lot about the NYT's agenda they want to push. But what's new there?
As a post script I must say that's a nice looking bunch of young people going to chuch. Looks like us 50-60 years ago.
My second son is a senior at Baylor, so we've been around Waco and Baylor since his brother was a freshman in 2018. It has lopsided demographics, with a lot more women than men. This is partially historical; good Texas Baptist dads had less trouble sending their daughters off to college if it meant single sex dorms and no alcohol or dancing on campus (note, dancing is now allowed, but no booze on campus and all dorms still single sex). Their sons could go to A&M or UT, but their daughters went to Baylor. That's still a decision some families make, and then you add to it tradition (you should see the number of moms on social media swooning over the fact that their freshman daughter will live in Collins Hall, just like they did), and the fact that more women than men go to college everywhere. So in short, lots of women on campus.
That being the on campus atmosphere, is it that odd to assume that some Baylor men would choose to attend church that put the emphasis on them - that chose to seek them out as parishioners? I don't think so. Protestant churches to tend to choose who they will tilt their message to, and this one has crafted their message in such a way to either address the gender imbalance or even leans toward men. There are a million churches in Waco; you have to compete for parishioners somehow. I'm Orthodox so I don't like that Protestants fine tune their message that way - but that's my problem. I think it's worth asking, though: is it really a "trend" if there's one church that does this, with kids from a school that is so church-oriented it hosts a freshman church fair every fall?
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/mUyTqCQb5nhqeuNJ/
As for me and my anecdata, most Sundays my son gets himself to church and then meets friends for lunch afterwards. They all attend different churches, based on their backgrounds, but they seem to be trying to encourage each other to go to services each Sunday. That's not how everyone behaves at Baylor, but it isn't by any means weird or extraordinary.
Passport Bros are just the tip of the spear. I'm expecting to see young guys increasingly culling the migrant population for wives over the next few years. I expect American women will sit idly by angrily accumulating cats and watching their ovaries shrivel.
If I were a young man who wanted a wife and family, I would marry a girl from Southeast Asia.
Women have a laundry list of what they require of men (just ask them) but if a man should dare express a preference himself that's not approved of by women, that's toxic masculinity and he's called insecure and misogynistic.
You are correct. Although no one is fucking anymore.
Central and South American women would crawl over broken glass and a pile of dead white girls for a shot at plenty of American men (of any color). Ask me how I know.
I've said it plenty but I'll say it again, if even 1/3 of illegals hopping over the Rio Grande were attractive and affectionate women under the age of 25 democrats would build the wall tomorrow or their Angie's List money would dry up faster than the Bonneville Salt Flats.
... and enjoy progress in a liberal culture of chemical inebriation to dull the dissonance garnered in the modern family growing in a dysfunctional climate.
I find this sad, as I think that historically women made men better people.
"Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny."
But marriage is a church thing... and so the men go to church. But hey... who wants to marry some hag that freaks out at men who go to church and is afraid of 'manly' men.
Gen Z is barely in their late 20s. Church interferes with the hot girl summers. As Gen Z women seek to revirginize for marriage, they'll flow back into the pews. The only thing that's really changed is the "good" girls are no longer showing up on Sunday after their trysts on Saturday night
Good point, Danno. Sad that our officer corps has become so anti-American.
"is filling the void"
The NYT is trying really, really hard to make this story happen. I think it falls flat on its face. But my experience is based on actually going to churches and seeing it with my own eyes. The story is 80% Bullsh*t. They are subtly trying to reinforce their own prejudices, and I bet they had to look hard to find a subject church.
What link?
The Episcopal church in Newport Beach had a more conservative congregation than the hierarchy. The bishop took over the church assets which had been paid for by the congregation and sold them to a developer.
Not these women.
American women aren't just difficult to make happy, they're damaged in ways that they can never be so. The end.
The thesis that more young men than women are attending church seems plausible to me. A young man I know is trying to meet women, but found that at the Catholic Church his family belongs to, it is young men who are showing up at the events designed for his age group. Even at the conservative, big-city downtown Catholic Church I sometime attend , there seem to be more single young men than single women . Lots of young families, but definitely more single men than single women.
Ahhhh....no.
"I have seen the future and it is fucked."
The same plaint uttered by every so-appointed prognosticator throughout all of history. The future may be fucked, but NOT in the manner or due to the reasons of the bellyachers on this particular topic.
"It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy." - Orwell 1984
Also, women are more likely to by afflicted with TDS which eats the brain cells. The loss calls them to the left which is notably anti-Christian and anti-family.
"We prefer video games, OnlyFans and free porn to the deal women are offering these days."
I have no doubt you do. I have no doubt women are more than happy to leave you alone with your video games, OnlyFans, and free porn.
The most prophetic books in this era of which I am aware are 1984 and, as always, the Bible.
As usual...
I didn't notice it was the NYT. The premise of the article is likely fabricated. I am a regular attendee at an Evangelical Church in a liberal college city. The young parishioners are mostly women. Nevertheless, I stand by my comment above.
I have seen the future and it is fucked. Except for the boot on Cook’s neck. I thoroughly enjoyed that part… guilty pleasure… I feel no remorse.
Mark, that's the narrative of divorce written by Boomer women with Gen X watching. Gen X women took that lesson and misapplied the logic, universally going into the workforce and still winding up divorced but with a job (and usually the house and kids) and eventually remarrying. Millenial and Gen Z women see that and have decided to take the wrong lesson and misapply the logic and now wind up with jobs and married to government benefits.
But then these women try raising kids without having a father in the house. Women can do anything! Well no. Statistically, they don’t do as well raising kids without a father figure in the household. How many of those mothers divorced te father of their children for empowerment, or some other selfish reason? And then their daughters lack self worth, have s3x, then kids early, etc, because they didn’t have the unconditional love of a father, and the boys lack self discipline, because they lacked a father figure to model male behavior.
Keep in mind, most divorces are filed by women. Those single mothers trying to survive with an inadequate education, etc, and raise their kids, most likely are the ones who filed for divorce. You use the term “tradwife” derogatorily. But there are sound reasons for those traditions.
And one woman writes: "Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny."
Yeah, no.
It's the young females who are making themselves unmarriagable. Fuckable, but not worth more than that.
And they still have religion. It's "Free Gaza" and "Climate Change" and "leftism forever". And since those are all really crappy religions, they're going to be horribly miserable, unlike the ones smart enough to go to a real church.
But hey, at least they're available to give lots of different men a briefly good time in bed
Government has become the new church for many of these women.
I see this as a sign that Western civilization may yet be saved. By men. The Church will give them structure, purpose, and...the knowledge that there is something greater than yourself. That there are good things to strive for, great things to stand up and fight for. We've lost that as a society.
And the women will come around eventually. Women- You know you want real men, not these BetaBoys. You want a man who can stand on his own two feet and make things happen, not someone flogging himself in public so that others think him an 'ally'.
To me this is a great sign. After an extended dark period, good men will lead the way. Or so I hope.
Find them
Fondle them
Fuck them
Forget them
Forever
That's what they're selling. They're not marriage material. Shame on big bad mean terrible men for buying.
It is all going to come to an end. Government is big and bad and scary and wealthy...on paper...at least for now. Big daddy DC is going to let them down eventually. It's already let men down for decades. They had two choices: their community which was close at hand or the swamp that was far away. They chose the swamp.
The break-up will be epic.
The modern religion in progressive sects advises libwomen to remain affordable, available, reusable, and taxable for State and partners.
"Young men are making themselves unmarriagable by buying into various cults of toxic masculinity and misogyny"
Aside from the gross mischaracterization of the young Christian men I personally know (who seem to have had no problem finding quality spouses), this is nonsense. If the bulk of young men were like this, you'd soon find young women conforming to their expectations. Same as it ever was.
Female driver sounds like Reese Witherspoon in “Freeway”. A good one for anyone who hasn’t seen it.
50 years of "girl power" have turned the world on its head. Now it's the women who don't want to be tied down by church, marriage and a family.
Are they having sex all the time -- or at all? Unlikely. Between "leaning in" to the corporate world, posting selfies, and drunken girls' nights out, it's hard to find time for sex. Talk about "reproductive freedom" has more to do with tribal unity than with actual libertinism. Don't make Rush Limbaugh's Sandra Fluke mistake. Even lesbians march for abortion.
"Misandry" is also a thing. Watch British TV or American movies and see it in action.
Most men and women successfully avoid taking a knee to masculinist and feminist virtue disseminated in progressive religious sects.
Thanks. I came here to post a similar remark. In my experience, the congregations near me are majority female. Many young women are there..
Something I learned in undergrad years at a small Baptist affiliated college: young men go to church, and join the Intervarsity Christian Fellowship club, to appear suitable for young women's attention. Discerning young women at IVCF would let their boyfriends get away with all sorts of sin with them, because they thought (sometimes correctly, usually wrongly) that because the IVCF male members were good Christian boys they'd marry the girls they banged. Good to see that nothing has changed since the 1970s.
Ideal church environment isn't women in the pews, nor is it men in the pews. It is families in the pews.
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