Officials and experts agree that these recent cases reflect what Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken in February called a “rising trend” in which American enemies are “wrongfully detaining people, often as political pawns.”...
[I]n roughly the past 10 years, as foreign terrorist threats have receded, the imprisonment of Americans by hostile governments on false or inflated legal charges has risen sharply, according to Danielle Gilbert, an assistant professor at Northwestern University who studies so-called hostage diplomacy....
Families of prisoners.... enlist celebrities and the media to help pressure U.S. officials to “do whatever it takes,” as they often say.... Ms. Gilbert noted that such deals have proven to be politically popular. Both Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden have benefited from heartwarming Oval Office meetings with freed prisoners and their families, and dramatic accounts of how their leadership sealed the deals....
The article links to Trump's response at Truth Social:
So when are they going to release the details of the prisoner swap with Russia? How many people do we get versus them? Are we also paying them cash? Are they giving us cash (Please withdraw that question, because I’m sure the answer is NO)? Are we releasing murderers, killers, or thugs? Just curious because we never make good deals, at anything, but especially hostage swaps. Our “negotiators” are always an embarrassment to us! I got back many hostages, and gave the opposing Country NOTHING – and never any cash. To do so is bad precedent for the future. That’s the way it should be, or this situation will get worse and worse. They are extorting the United States of America. They’re calling the trade “complex” – That’s so nobody can figure out how bad it is!
The NYT article takes issue with some of what Trump asserts:
Yet Mr. Trump offered no evidence that he could have struck a better deal, apart from a false claim that he had given up “NOTHING” as president to win the release of Americans imprisoned abroad. In fact, Mr. Trump traded prisoners with U.S. adversaries, including Iran and the Afghan Taliban, on at least four occasions.
Even if Trump gave something more than "NOTHING," did Trump make better deals? Is it true he never gave cash? Did Biden pay cash in this new deal?
I would think the "evidence that [Trump] could have struck a better deal" would be that he did, in fact, make better deals when he was President, but the article does not go down that road. Ironically, the NYT's "no evidence" mirrors Trump's "NOTHING." And both Trump and the Times tell us that things are "complex" — the NYT piece ends with quote from an expert asserting that it's a "vast oversimplification for people to say that we can’t rescue Americans wrongly detained abroad because it will incentivize further hostage taking" — but only offer the simplified notion that prisoner deals are complex.
BidenHarris is President and can generate these popular deals and perform in the heartwarming welcome-home scenes. Who can believe this activity is untainted by short-term electoral ambition? Powerless Trump, stuck in the audience for this political theater, can only boo. Can we — the rest of the audience — resist jumping to the easier question: Trump or BidenHarris?
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It defies belief that Putin, knowing both the gullibility and desperation of Biden in this election cycle, did not rip our eyeballs out in this deal. The WSJ, normally critical, is so conflicted here that it will not dig too deep.
Going forward, the Trump State Department should make it an explicit policy that if you are an American, and are foolhardy enough to venture to Russia, North Korea, Iran, etc, you are in your own. Hostage swaps always damage the West in the long run.
"...the imprisonment of Americans by hostile governments on false or inflated legal charges has risen sharply..."
Indeed. The very same thing can be said about the increasing number of Republicans being charged or imprisoned by hostile Democrat-run governments. Funny how "our democracy" starting to look very much like Russia, no?
He got two spies two hackers a hitman and oartridge in a pear tree
WASHINGTON ― The White House on Wednesday, [June 12] would not say whether President Joe Biden might consider commuting the upcoming sentence of Hunter Biden after his son was found guilty of three federal gun charges.
White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, when asked during a gaggle with reporters on Air Force One whether a commutation for Hunter Biden is on the table, pointed to Biden previously ruling out a pardon for his son but did not rule out a possible commutation.
While a presidential pardon exonerates a convicted individual of all guilt in their crime, a commutation keeps the conviction intact but reduces the punishment.
Trump-appointed Judge Maryellen Noreika has scheduled the Hunter Biden sentencing for November 13 - much later than it had to be, thus delaying any appeals by Hunter, forcing the President to consider pardoning his son or reducing the sentence.
By the way, Trump has just two weeks to appeal the E. Jean Carroll ruling, which has had a $93 million price tag plus interest since March.
According to Richard Grenell, a plane carrying Russia weaponry was allowed to land in Iran. So, if Israel is attacked using more sophisticated (effective at killing) weapons, that’s probably part of the swap, as well.
We keep giving pieces on the board and thinking were chess masters
The deal to the three 9-11 plotters was so bad it was taken back
We used to understand that it’s bad policy to negotiate with hostage takers or pay ransom. Families would do it anyway because their interests are more narrow, but we expected our government to behave responsibly.
Unfortunately, today, the government never looks beyond the political needs of the moment. There is no room in our electoral calculus for courageous leadership.
Back when we were a real country: "Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead."
Biden didn’t negotiate the deal. It was Olaf Scholz, the chancellor of Germany.
Better deals?
“A 2020 exchange with the Iran-backed Houthis
In 2020, the Trump administration secured the release of two Americans who were imprisoned by Iran-backed Houthi militants in Yemen, aid worker Sandra Loli and businessman Mikael Gidada, in exchange for the release of more than 200 Houthi militants who were being held in Oman. Those Houthis were allowed to return to Yemen.”
CNN
Neither the inform Joe Biden, nor the mentally-challenged Kamala Harris, had anything to do with this prisoner swap. They were informed of it, then set up as props for the real people who are running the United States. And it's neither one of those two.
The idea that Putin is going to be "Grabbing people" to make more deals is stupid. You want to give Putin fewer bargaining chips? Stop sending CIA assets into Russia. And tell dumb people not to travel to Russia and break the Drug Laws and Anti-Russian loones with American passports to stop subverting Russian society.
Almost all the Russians returned in the deal had nothing against the USA. This was primarily a German-Russian exchange. As stated upthread.
As for Trump's statement, he's running a campaign. And he has to put out campaign rhetoric. And the NYT's is an arm of the DNC and has to do the same.
Wow the stupid has reached critical levels here
Inga asked: "Better deals?"
Yemeni used to be 3/5ths of a person when Democrats ran things.
Trump negotiated that down to 1/100th of a person.
That's a better deal.
“Biden didn’t negotiate the deal. It was Olaf Scholz, the chancellor of Germany.”
“Vice President Kamala Harris played a role in negotiations with allies to secure the prisoner-swap deal. Harris met with both German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Slovenian Prime Minister Robert Golob separately in intimate settings during the Munich Security Conference in February to urge both leaders to push the deal through, according to a White House official. Harris’s meeting with Scholz was particularly critical to securing the exchange because releasing Krasikov was a key Russian demand.
The Journal’s report added that Harris had met Scholz previously on several occasions, and as an administration official put it, the vice president had a “good working relationship with him.” That’s “part of the reason why she was able to have a really good, frank conversation with him.””
WSJ
The Wall Street Journal needs to stop allowing their owners in the CIA to embed their agents as fake journalists.
Inga has moved on from being just a Covid expert to becoming a hostage negotiation expert as well. Consider Inga: Oman sent 200 camel jocks back across their common border with Yemen, and we got two Americans released. Exactly how was that a loss for us?
"by hostile governments on false or inflated legal charges has risen sharply,"
Gee, what's an "Inflated charge"? Y'mean like giving people 2 or 4 years in prison for walking peacefully around the Capital on J6? The Hypocricsy of our MSM, X-burts, and America's power elite knows no bounds.
And this is right on the heels on the Power Elite and MSM Complaining about VZs election
being unfair and full of fraud because the opposition couldn't audit the votes, counting takes too long, and some election places were Kept open late in some areas and didn't have opposition "Poll watchers". Y'know just like Michagan, GA and AZ in 2020!
Oh well if they’re “politically popular” why concern ourselves with the perverse incentive it gives Russia, Iran, North Korea…. Wait a minute. Aren’t those the same countries Bush said comprised an “Axis of Evil?” That’s who we’re incentivizing? And the deals keep getting more favorable for them?
And then SecDef Lloyd Austin is the adult in the room? WTF is this place?
No hes on a milk carton 2/3rd of the time
People respond to incentives. If you create value for hostage taking you will get more hostages…
So two hackers one the son of a kremlin lawmaker a hit man two spies sentenced the previous week in vienna
I’m starting to see the relationship between milk cartons and DEI now. Props to narciso.
Here's the guy who negotiated with the Russians to release the prisoners.
He's shown on video wandering off from the group and trying to climb into an empty, non-running, unlit aircraft, from which the prisoners had departed earlier in the photo op portion of the fake show. Kamala Harris doesn't intervene or try to stop him wandering off.
https://x.com/amuse/status/1819393683751313898
This is the author of the Art of this Deal.
And not for nothing, but if it weren't for Elon Musk, you'd never know that the President of the United States is a doddering idiot they pull out for photo ops only.
This video is UNAVAILABLE anywhere on any major media site in the United States.
Just as a general proposition, humans respond to incentives and disincentives.
When you reward negative behavior, like taking hostages or birthing children out of wedlock, you foster and promote this behavior and get more of it.
Duh.
I wonder if Trump really does see everything in the same way he would as if he were negotiating to buy a plot of land in Atlantic City to add a parking lot to the casino site. I think it would be easy to manipulate someone who is so insistent on being seen as a super duper deal maker.
According to the Foley Foundation, there are 42 other Americans, in different countries, being held around the world. I hope we're trying to get them back as well.
It's true that prisoner deals stink in general but the upside is many of the freed prisoners feel a deep sense of gratitude and obligation and go on to become life coaches and motivational speakers.
Yes he had brain surgery in 07 and has lost steps since then
Yes he had brain surgery in 07 and has lost steps since then
I would have done the same thing as FJB = use nearest available potty for pee and dump!
Otto Warmbler:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/19/otto-warmbier-north-korea-damages/
“A month later, a tearful Warmbier appeared at an orchestrated news conference in North Korea and “confessed” to the “preplanned” crime of trying to steal a propaganda sign during the trip. He fell into a coma for unknown reasons in March 2016, on the same night he was sentenced to 15 years in prison with hard labor. Following diplomatic wrangling by the Trump administration, he was evacuated to the United States in 2017 while still in a coma and died six days later at a Cincinnati hospital.
Donald Trump, who became the first sitting U.S. president to set foot in the isolated state in 2019, caused consternation when he said he believed Kim’s claims that he did not know about the American student’s treatment. “I don’t believe he would have allowed that to happen,” Trump said in Hanoi after his second summit with Kim. “He tells me he didn’t know about it, and I take him at his word.” He added that he had spoken to Kim about the death of Warmbier and that Kim “feels badly about it.””
If the deal was called “complex” by the Administration, then that is evidence it is more than a singular this for that, prisoner for prisoner exchange. Complexity comes from other, no obvious, concessions being made, such as cash or even relief of sanctions. If the complexity involved, we get our folks back and guarantees the Russians won’t do that again, then I think we’d hear about it.
Harris is very used to agreeing to let powerful men do whatever they want to her.
Well now I know that Kamala Harris brother-in-law represented Johnny Walker Lindh.
He visited a town where the Russians manufacture tanks. Let’s all pretend that he was in that particular city to do lifestyle stories, and had no idea about tanks when that was of intense interest to NATO.
Our press lies to us for the government, and we are supposed to believe that it would not snoop for the government.
Yep. Russell snags someone that’s either innocent or for a misdemeanor, hold them hostage and ask for the return of one of their spies or other criminals.
And Biden keeps falling for it.
“Harris met with both German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Slovenian Prime Minister Robert Golob separately in intimate settings…”
“…The Journal’s report added that Harris had met Scholz previously on several occasions, and as an administration official put it, the vice president had a “good working relationship with him.”
WSJ
I can’t believe one of you guys didn’t pick up on this.
Russia got back a government assassin as part of the exchanges. They got an arms dealer for Britney Griner as well. Obviously we've got "top men" working on this on our side.
Maybe Putin et al were threatening to turn state's evidence, forcing Biden et al hand.
Subsidize something, get more of it.
"Consider Inga: Oman sent 200 camel jocks back across their common border with Yemen, and we got two Americans released. Exactly how was that a loss for us?"
Have you not heard what the Houthis have been doing? I wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable enough to say if that made a big difference, but it certainly didn't hurt them.
"Donald Trump, who became the first sitting U.S. president to set foot in the isolated state in 2019, caused consternation when he said he believed Kim’s claims that he did not know about the American student’s treatment. “I don’t believe he would have allowed that to happen,” Trump said in Hanoi after his second summit with Kim. “He tells me he didn’t know about it, and I take him at his word.” He added that he had spoken to Kim about the death of Warmbier and that Kim “feels badly about it.””
I remember this. Do you remember the sabre-rattling and "rocket-man" before that?
It's good cop, bad cop. This is part of what makes Trump strong on foreign policy.
BG, it was too obvious. Like a $50 bill glued to a sidewalk.
US citizens shouldn’t be in these shithole countries.
No need to rescue them if they can use common sense and not go to Russia.
Good photo ops, lousy precedents.
imTay said...
He visited a town where the Russians manufacture tanks. Let’s all pretend that he was in that particular city to do lifestyle stories, and had no idea about tanks when that was of intense interest to NATO.
****************
Oh really? Is that town a "forbidden city" as it was for ordinary Russians back you when {word has it} you served as a guard in the Gulag? Are foreigners forbidden to go there?
And what a STUPID way to conduct espionage, using a WSJ reporter being watched every second!
Maybe the gummint is that stupid, but I doubt the WSJ guy was a rube who would go along with that idea.
BTW, Timofei, How many Russki "journos" do you think are secretly STATIONED near American military bases and assets?
SNORT
BG said...
“Harris met with both German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Slovenian Prime Minister Robert Golob separately in intimate settings…”
“…The Journal’s report added that Harris had met Scholz previously on several occasions, and as an administration official put it, the vice president had a “good working relationship with him.”
WSJ
I can’t believe one of you guys didn’t pick up on this.
************
You seem to be making unfounded conclusions based on ambiguously-worded sentences.
We'd love to see the results of your most-recent Rorschach tests.
The thing about encouraging people to take prisoners, because we will pay a ransom, only applies if we don't send in law enforcement or the military to get the prisoners back. We can do that with small organizations or countries that take prisoners and remove the incentive for them to take prisoners in the first place, but we can't do that with Russia. To send a military force deep into Russia to retrieve prisoners would lead to all out war.
"I would think the "evidence that [Trump] could have struck a better deal" would be that he did, in fact, make better deals when he was President, but the article does not go down that road. Ironically, the NYT's "no evidence" mirrors Trump's "NOTHING."
It's easy for the NYT to say there's"no evidence," when they haven't conducted a good faith investigation. To quote Larry Norman: "you can't see nothing when you close your eyes."
three of the hostages were taken under biden, one of the exchanged seleznev, happened under trump, he was one of those nasty Russian hackers, who had krisha protection because his father was a Russian lawmaker, I think house speaker,
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