Many of their patrons seem to appreciate the restrictions. “Some people wanna celebrate or kick it to a different vibe sometimes,” one patron posted on Facebook. “Bliss gives you that. I think this is what the city needs.” And he had a message for young people: “WE’RE TIRED OF YALL TEARING EVERYTHING UP!!!!!”
But others chafed at the rules, with some suggesting that managers should simply crack down on unruly patrons if that is the problem....
It's not illegal... the article says, looking at it as age discrimination. But men are treated differently from women, so I think the problem is sex discrimination.
From the comments over there: "Amen! Crowded NYC restaurants with a table full of 20-something woo-girls (getting drunk means screaming "wooo" alot inside) or tech bros out-yelling each other is a circle of hell. We have stopped going out on Thur/Fri/ or Sat nights because the places are intolerable. Grown-ups at a grown-up restaurant! Great concept and I am all in favor."
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46 comments:
It's their business, they should be able to run it however they want. Of course, this being America, that's not likely to be allowed.
“WE’RE TIRED OF YALL TEARING EVERYTHING UP!!!!!”
Ahh I was wondering if this was just younger folks being loud and obnoxious, but by that statement I'm guessing it has more to do unruly patrons exceeding even that. I've seen plenty of videos on the internet of brawls at restaurants filled with people throwing food, plates, and silverware all over. The places are absolutely trashed.
I wonder if it is unlawful sex discrimination because the age limit is different and more restrictive for Men than it is for Women.
I was unable to view the article, but I wonder if they will turn away families with children? What if Mom and Dad both 40 want to go there with junior and juniorette who are 10 and 8 respectively? Young children that age can sometimes be loud and obnoxious but based on the clipped comment, I don't think the problem the restaurant is trying to prevent is just noisy children.
Ladies Night is legal, right? This should be as well.
It's their business, they should be able to run it however they want. Of course, this being America, that's not likely to be allowed.
So if they hung out a sign that said "Whites Only", you would have no problem with that?
No wooo-girls? I'm there.
Dining out has become such a crap shoot the wife and I only subsidize establishments that are $50-100/person or more, and then only once in a while. I know this place and before reading about this policy I would've avoided it anyway.
If any of your are ever in St. Louis I highly recommend upscale Italian dining in "The Hill" neighborhood. You won't be disappointed.
Will they attract females with fake IDs: Those between 18 and 29 who seek husbands or escorts or to dig for gold?
Men aged 35+ will gravitate to the youngest "age 30+" females in the room... Few adults may want the college party vibe, but if she's 19 and has a longer attention span than a puppy dog...
"So if they hung out a sign that said "Whites Only", you would have no problem with that?"
Why should that be any different than this:
"Black students at Harvard will host the school’s first-ever “Black Graduation” ceremony."
https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/harvard_prepares_to_host_all_black_graduation
“So if they hung out a sign that said "Whites Only", you would have no problem with that?“
I’d rather they hang a sign that reads: “Freder Frederson Only”
How old do nonbinary diners have to be?
I predict failure for this restaurant. It is a tough business even when you don't deliberately limit your customer base.
This is fine.
What about retirement communities? How do they get to keep people under a certain age from buying a home there? Isn't that gray-liming?
And why does the government have to step in to keep Freder from going to a 'Whites Only' place of business? Doesn't Freder have the ability to avoid such establishments on his own? Is he (or whatever gender 'he' is today) such a committed racist that it takes the powers of government to keep him from acting out his anti-black animus?
It seems the answer to that question is ...yes.
MfG
Goetz von Berlichingen
Some people wanna celebrate or kick it to a different vibe sometimes
The owners should consider hiring some experts to accurately determine what kind of vibe the restaurant actually has. If your restaurant is attracting woo girls your restaurant has a woo girls vibe...
I suspect that age is being used as a proxy for ... something else. St. Louis, huh? Probably the Amish again.
Guys mature later. But why five-o...
Blogger Jupiter said...
I suspect that age is being used as a proxy for ... something else.
I don't know. The Restaurant is described as Caribbean. I'm assuming the owners are black folks of Caribbean extract. I can't imagine people like that having a problem with Middle-aged or older black folks coming in. I think it is to avoid young folks coming in and trashing the place. Now of those young folks if they have a particular subset of them more in the forefront of their minds when creating this policy I can't say.
"So if they hung out a sign that said "Whites Only", you would have no problem with that?"
Why not "Blacks Only"? Anyway- to answer your question... No, I wouldn't. If you don't like their attitude, you don't have to eat there, do you?
The fact that you asked the question demonstrates you believe that's something that might actually happen. Given that, don't you think it would be better to know the restaurant owner's opinion on the topic before sitting down to order? Or would you prefer to have people who don't like you so much they want you to take your business elsewhere, but are prevented by law from saying so, preparing your food?
I love the concept and I do get it.
This is why country clubs exist and have for years, for some. Why there are private social clubs. The age thing is a new twist to it, but then, we live in a new era. And some generations are not attached to previous generations at all. Whereas all generations used to have a tie that bound them together, it seems like that tie has been broken with recent generations. And one's idea of civil society is very different than another's.
We've stopped going to places like that. Nobody goes there anymore - they're too crowded.
"The owners should consider hiring some experts to accurately determine what kind of vibe the restaurant actually has."
This. Sorting usually takes care of itself.
I do wonder if this is really about groups of younger diners lingering, socializing occupying tables and reducing churn/profit.
I don't have access, but this article suggests that.
https://www.wsj.com/business/hospitality/restaurants-large-groups-dining-ecae9ffe
However, methinks worth thinking about a restaurant excluding over 35s.
(Meaning, flip the variable to see how reasonable it is)
I'm looking for a restaurant that caters to those over 70 and offers to cut your meat.
What about we that are old and not sexy at all?
Not sold on the 'sex discrimination' angle. Men have to be five years older than women to eat there. Sounds like women are being discriminated against less than the men. Sure, the men could bring suit, but, you know, we're men. We just suck it up and move on, generally.
How are dress codes legal?
How do restaurants require certain attire without being sued?
Heck, even the USConstitution has age discrimination built into it.
If I was a 30yo female with a ticking biological clock, I'd be thrilled that this place exists.
Cougars may not be so thrilled.
MfG
Goetz von Berlichingen
"I don't have access, but this article suggests that.
https://www.wsj.com/business/hospitality/restaurants-large-groups-dining-ecae9ffe"
You can read it here:
https://archive.is/DbpbQ
Be forewarned- the article notes a couple of reasons why restaurant owners don't like larger parties, but doesn't get into much detail on the subject.
Why not 30 for both?
Worked in restaurants to supplement my GI Bill so that I could go to college. Groups of six or more were required to pay a mandatory 20% gratuity and no split checks. Those rules came about because groups of women (vagina-having persons) would ask for individual checks and the server would end up with little or no tip after spending the entire shift catering to the one group.
Ask any experienced food server, women are lousy tippers.
MfG
Goetz von Berlichingen
JAORE said...
I'm looking for a restaurant that caters to those over 70 and offers to cut your meat.
--
There's a very unique place called Mama Bird.
Those restaurateurs "outside of St. Louis" once again setting the trend.
I am reminded how restaurateurs at Cape Cod fear and dread the arrival of a Kennedy party, as they are notorious for being rude, noisy and given to "chew and screw".
Shanty Irish, the entire lot.
"Waitress sandwich!"
Maybe they should rename the bar, Carousel and offer free drinks to runners.
Most restaurants suck. And they are getting suckier all the time. Best not to tell anyone about the few good ones.
Blogger walter said...
"Waitress sandwich!"
Of the Senators Ted Kennedy and Chris Dodd variety as sometimes mentioned by the late, great Rush Limbaugh?
Sometimes, diversity can wear you out. A few drinks or a bite to eat with 'your own kind' however you define that, is just what the doctor ordered.
Many of bars/cafes I frequented during my Tokyo years were very particular about who was let in the door. Good times.
would this be different, if it were a golf course in georgia?
But men are treated differently from women, so I think the problem is sex discrimination.
Agreed. If we were a young married couple again, I’d be thoroughly pissed that my 31 year old wife could go to this restaurant, but 33 year old me couldn’t take her.
So if they hung out a sign that said "Whites Only", you would have no problem with that?
Nope. Same as if it was blacks only. Or Republicans not wanted ... you know, like what's actually happened at a place in DC.
Don't like the way I run my business? Go somewhere else. If I'm wrong, my business will fail.
But, I can understand why a totalitarian wouldn't appreciate that approach.
"Don't like the way I run my business? Go somewhere else."
Authoritarians don't like it when people are free to do things they disapprove of.
Basically saying: No "Canadians."
As for sex discrimination, opponents might have a point. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, IIRC, tackled a case where the discrimination was against men precisely to target that point.
But I think this was a pragmatic decision: Some of the young patrons got rowdy, and the men more than the women, so they decided to exclude both groups, and men older than women.
Yancey Ward points out on another site that this is St. Louis, and a primarily-Black restaurant. Perhaps that might figure in your deliberations.
Althouse writes, "But men are treated differently from women, so I think the problem is sex discrimination."
If the men are behaving differently from the women, either for the better or the worse, do they not merit different treatment? How is it just not to discriminate?
Public drunkenness is a thing among urban women lately, and by drunkenness, I do not mean mere tipsiness, but raucous, obnoxious, falling-down, vomit-spewing intoxication. Last year I had a thoroughly tanked 20-something female fall bodily over my table, scattering everything before me -- my steak onto the floor, my beer into my lap. The restaurant made it good by replacing my meal with a certificate for another at a date of my choosing. The shitfaced sow was escorted outside where a cop was waiting to make sure she didn't attempt to drive. The shrieking and cursing heard by everyone as the manager and the bartender saw her out would have made a sailor blush.
No one operating a public accommodation like a restaurant should be compelled to tolerate this sort of behavior on account of sex discrimination ordinances.
"Important Notice: Age Requirement for Bliss Caribbean Restaurant
As a Black-owned business, Bliss Caribbean Restaurant is dedicated to providing North County with an upscale dining experience."
It's a black owned business that wants to keep rowdy young blacks out of the place, because they know the young blacks will ruin the place for everyone else. If it was a white owned business it would be sued out of existence, if not burned to the ground, for putting up that notice
Having spent a fair amount of time in St. Louis, I understand why they want to do this. I wish them luck.
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