Althouse: "More than 1,300 people died making the Islamic pilgrimage of hajj in Saudi Arabia this month..."

২৪ জুন, ২০২৪

"More than 1,300 people died making the Islamic pilgrimage of hajj in Saudi Arabia this month..."

"... the vast majority of whom the Saudi government said did not have permits.... While pilgrims with permits are transported around the holy city of Mecca in air-conditioned buses and rest in air-conditioned tents, unregistered ones are often exposed to the elements... [walking miles] as temperatures surpassed 120 degrees.... Entry to Mecca was barred weeks before hajj for visitors who did not have permits. Yet many pilgrims were able to evade the restrictions, arriving in Mecca early and hiding out, or paying smugglers to ferry them into the city...."

The NYT reports.

Two of the dead were Americans, a couple from Maryland, who spent $23,000 on the trip but did not have the permits. The article ends with a quote from their daughter, the classic statement: "They died doing exactly what they wanted to do."

৪২টি মন্তব্য:

RMc বলেছেন...: "They died doing exactly what they wanted to do."

"...which was 'being idiots', apparently."; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৫:২২ AM
Dave Begley বলেছেন...: Does the NYT assert, without evidence, that the high summer temps were due to CAGW?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৫:২৬ AM
Robert Marshall বলেছেন...: All deaths caused by hot weather are trumpeted as the tragic costs of the "climate [crisis|catastrophe|emergency|make-up your own word]". We must move back into caves, eat bugs, and die-off as a species, apparently, to stop this. Anything less would make St. Greta of Thunberg get the sads.

Ten times as many people die as a result of cold weather, but that's okay, and is not to be mentioned in polite society. You might think that global warming would reduce this far more significant winter death toll, while increasing the far smaller summer death toll, thus reducing overall the deaths caused by temperature extremes. But you're not allowed to think that, and the fake news media is not inclined to ever mention an upside to climate change, God forbid. Like how much plants are grooving on the enriched atmosphere, the same phenomenon as greenhouse farmers use by pumping CO2 into their greenhouses, but on a global scale. No, it's all negatives, all the time.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:০৩ AM
Mr Wibble বলেছেন...: Good riddance.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:০৭ AM
Rusty বলেছেন...: Because heat stroke is such a lovely way to end it all.
You need a permit to pray to a rock? Ya gotta pilgrimage but it's gonna cost ya.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:১৮ AM
John henry বলেছেন...: My daughter just came back from a week in England.

They were all panicking there because of an extreme heat wave.

It was getting as hot as 80 degrees!

John Henry; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:২৫ AM
tim maguire বলেছেন...: There’s probably a special reward in heaven for people who die on Hajj. For some number, this was likely the plan all along.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:২৯ AM
Ann Althouse বলেছেন...: "Does the NYT assert, without evidence, that the high summer temps were due to CAGW?"

Isn't that what you'd expect? But I'm not seeing it. I see:

"With nearly two million participating each year, it is not unusual for pilgrims to die from heat stress, illness or chronic disease. It is unclear if the number of deaths this year was higher than usual, because Saudi Arabia does not regularly report those statistics. In 1985, more than 1,700 people died around the holy sites, most of them from heat stress, a study at the time found."

I think they may have wanted to connect it to global warming, but they didn't have the evidence. 1985 was, apparently, a worse year, and Saudi Arabia is not forthcoming.

Anyway, it's even more interesting that the NYT seems to be concerned about people traveling without appropriate official permission. To my ear, that resonates with the problem of illegal immigration.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:৩১ AM
gilbar বলেছেন...: Let me Get This STRAIGHT?

It was REALLY HOT? In the Desert? In THE SUMMER????
What MORE PROOF of Global Warming do you sheeple NEED?

To Repeat. It was REALLY HOT! In the Desert! In THE SUMMER!!
That is NOT something that "naturally occurs", that is PROOF of man Destroying The Climate

Can ANY ONE think of ANY Other time in history, that It was REALLY HOT? In the Desert? In THE SUMMER??
I thought NOT!; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:৩৪ AM
Leland বলেছেন...: Waiting for "Stop Oil Now" to spray paint the Kaaba orange.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:৪০ AM
Breezy বলেছেন...: "They died doing exactly what they wanted to do."

This is a bizarre statement for demises which were not sudden. Can’t help but think this was a suicide pact. One had to show signs of distress before the other, and they did nothing to help?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:৪৩ AM
Temujin বলেছেন...: Leland at 6:40am!; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৬:৫৯ AM
rehajm বলেছেন...: You must know your Koran when immigrating to Mecca. There’s a quiz. Infidels need to exit the highway before the checkpoint…; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:০২ AM
guitar joe বলেছেন...: The average temp in Mecca in June is 110. At that point, does a 15 degree bump make a difference? Probably, but I'm sure these kinds of peaks in temp happen there all the time. In other words, a religious pilgrimage there always entails some risk, which is why the Saudis want sanctioned, planned visits.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:০৯ AM
Kate বলেছেন...: I've been in 120 degrees. It's like checking food in a hot oven and trying to breathe. Why wouldn't you get the permit? Is the a/c considered cheating, less holy, to some?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:১৭ AM
Kate বলেছেন...: "The average temp in Mecca in June is 110. At that point, does a 15 degree bump make a difference?"

Yes.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:১৯ AM
Christopher B বলেছেন...: Breezy said...
Can’t help but think this was a suicide pact. One had to show signs of distress before the other, and they did nothing to help?

Suicide pact seems a bit of a stretch. Like the shirtless guy who wandered around the SoCal mountains for 10 days after setting off on a 3 hour hike (but luckily survived to be rescued), people set off on all sorts of trips with inadequate preparation which could be either because they are that dumb or because they simply don't understand the conditions along the route. I can easily see a couple of minimally informed people thinking they were headed to something like a Saudi/Muslim version of Mount Rushmore without realizing they weren't going to get anywhere near the support or amenities provided at prominent US tourist destinations.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:২২ AM
Bob Boyd বলেছেন...: You need a permit to get into paradise too.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:৩৭ AM
Bob Boyd বলেছেন...: I wonder what percentage of the Hajis have permits.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:৩৯ AM
rehajm বলেছেন...: How much does a permit cost? Positive permit prices promote permit-less pilgrims…; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:৪৪ AM
Michael বলেছেন...: Standard fare to have scores of deaths. Usually they are crushed to death.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৮:২১ AM
Whiskeybum বলেছেন...: You’d think that if they could spend $23k on the trip, they could have afforded the permit for the air conditioned busses.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:০০ AM
Narr বলেছেন...: Delusional death cult gonna delusional death cult.

No loss to the rest of us.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:০৭ AM
Butkus51 বলেছেন...: so, a wall; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:১৪ AM
Iman বলেছেন...: Keffiyeh Fried Chicken; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:২০ AM
MadTownGuy বলেছেন...: Ann Althouse said...

"Anyway, it's even more interesting that the NYT seems to be concerned about people traveling without appropriate official permission. To my ear, that resonates with the problem of illegal immigration."

To me, it seems like it has more to do with top-down control, and what happens when you don't have your papers in order. Is that why there's so little criticism of Islamic regimes' control over their subjects? Is it that Progressives find something to admire?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:৩৮ AM
Old and slow বলেছেন...: The difference between 110 F and 123 F (as hot as I've been in) is HUGE. 110 feels downright pleasant compared to 120+; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১০:০৭ AM
Rusty বলেছেন...: Anyway; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১০:৩৮ AM
Kakistocracy বলেছেন...: Evidently, the gods still require appalling human sacrifices.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১১:৪৯ AM
mccullough বলেছেন...: Survival of the Permitted; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১২:০০ PM
Jupiter বলেছেন...: Works for me.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১২:০১ PM
Skeptical Voter বলেছেন...: You won't find 1,300 or 1,700 for that matter in a week or two on the Sonoran Desert while "emigrating" across the Mexico/Arizona border. But each year a number of "undocumented immigrants" perish on the desert from heat and from lack of water.

You can function on the desert in high heat--I used to fly free flight model airplanes in something called "Summer Madness" in temps of around 105-110 F. But you need to be able to retreat to some shade and water and take a 30 minute break about every hour or so. And our "undocumented immigrants" can't do that.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১২:৩০ PM
KellyM বলেছেন...: It is 10:56am PDT as of this writing and the current temperature in Death Valley is 101 degrees. The projected high is 111 degrees and the tourists will be thick on the ground. It's amazing how many people go there in high summer. A little too toasty for a round of golf at Furnace Creek.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ১:০৩ PM
Deep State Reformer বলেছেন...: What does this say about the Saudi administration of the haj that chaos abounds and fatalities regularly occur? What does it say about institutional Islam? I had a haji (ie, someone that had done the haj himself) acquaintance who used to laugh about his time in Philippines where Christians zealots would have themselves whipped and nailed to a cross during Resurrection Week. He thought it quite funny tbh. Mentioning any haj casualties though would set him off. Go figure?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ২:০০ PM
Known Unknown বলেছেন...: Local man died doing what he hated.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ২:০১ PM
Known Unknown বলেছেন...: এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।; ২৪/৬/২৪, ২:০১ PM
Rabel বলেছেন...: Sandals kill. Boots for the win.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ২:০৩ PM
Tim বলেছেন...: rookie numbers; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৫:৩১ PM
Big Mike বলেছেন...: He gets 72 Houris. What does she get?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৫:৪৫ PM
Assistant Village Idiot বলেছেন...: "At least he died doing what he loved. Surprising tigers."; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৭:৫৫ PM
Bunkypotatohead বলেছেন...: They should do it in February when the temps are in the 70s.; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৮:০৩ PM
Skipper বলেছেন...: Is that a genocide of sorts?; ২৪/৬/২৪, ৯:২১ PM