"... to get friends and lovers to do what they wanted. Both were charming con artists that didn’t let you know you were being conned. There was an art to seduction, and Madonna had mastered it. She was a flirt who made everyone she flirted with feel a little bit sexier. Men and women. That was her gift."
Writes Susan Seidelman, in "'Directors Don’t Cry!'/Madonna, Rosanna Arquette, and the Wild Birth of Desperately Seeking Susan/In an excerpt from her memoir, Susan Seidelman watches Madonna go from newcomer ('I’ll do anything to get this part') to icon" (Vanity Fair).
Orion had to approve the casting of the lead actresses and because Madonna was a newcomer that involved jumping through some hoops.... Barbara Boyle had never heard of her, but had a fifteen-year-old son, David, who had. Apparently, he was an early Madonna fan and told his mother that she had to hire Madonna immediately.
The following day Madonna walked into Barbara’s office, fell on her knees, and said, “I’ll do anything to get this part.” Barbara responded: “Sorry, I’m heterosexual.” And Madonna replied: “How do you know unless you try?” Instantly, Barbara knew Madonna had the sass to play the role and told her to take a seat.
According to Barbara, they had the following conversation:
Barbara: “I understand you’re a successful singer and performer. Why do you want to be an actress?”
Madonna: “You understand from whom?”
Barbara: “My son, David.”
Madonna then took a pencil and paper off of Barbara’s desk and wrote a note: Dear David, Tell you mother to give me this role....
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52 comments:
So, Madonna is a needy, suck-up who used sex to get what she wanted. Sounds like the VP.
Why do we promote and celebrate these good looking whores?
So now I’m left hanging not knowing why Madonna wanted to be an actress…. sigh.
I love 1980's-early '90's Madonna. I saw a picture of her the other day from that time period and it reminded how absolutely fucking beautiful she was. I can understand how some charisma on top of that would open some doors for her.
This tale doesn't pass the smell test. By mid 80s Madonna was huge, probably only second to Michael Jackson at the time. Can't believe someone in the entertainment biz didn't know who she was. If not the music, then certainly the name.
"Why do we promote and celebrate these good looking whores?"
Because an orgasm will make humans more compliant than being judged and found wanting, especially by attractive young partners. Resisting this fact is a component of character, which is a thing that is always in short supply.
Those who do this make what they want very clear, and they often get it. If they didn't get what they wanted, this wouldn't happen as much as it does.
We are all in need of God's grace and forgiveness.
What Makes Madonna Run?
Madonna was famous when Desperately Seeking Susan came out, but I don't know how famous she was when it was casted. This story feels like a less clever version of the Streisand gum story. One thing she won't be is forgotten.
Dave Begley said...So, Madonna is a needy, suck-up who used sex to get what she wanted. Sounds like the VP.
But in entertainment, so what? There are no broader consequences if the movie flops because the lead can't act.
Harvey?
Harvey??
Harvey???
Hollywood's casting couch from the other side. Every single movie star succeeded in this environment. Madonna made her career with Barbie Doll dress up and sex...no shocker...
Search for Madonna's early career 1984 appearance on the music show New York Hot Tracks. The host very obviously hit on her during filming...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Hot_Tracks
There was an art to seduction, and Madonna had mastered it.
Madonna had the seductive talent of a hooker at 8th & Vine at 10PM.
Anything?
Hmmmm...
John Henry
tim maguire said...
Madonna was famous when Desperately Seeking Susan came out, but I don't know how famous she was when it was casted. This story feels like a less clever version of the Streisand gum story. One thing she won't be is forgotten.
—————
I disagree. Once she is gone she will be quickly forgotten.
Her product was never her art, which was pedestrian, it was her.
"Desperately Seeking Susan" is on my Top Ten list of movies I've assiduously avoided seeing.
The list remains intact.
About a third of the way through I started skimming, so: didn't read. I've always found Madonna to be 1000% self-promoting whether she had good material or bad, and most of it wasn't good; but all of it was a case of Madonna pretending it was, passionately. She doesn't have Taylor Swift's determined approach to quality (not to say I like Swift music). A couple of her songs were catchy. I think she made it to Pop Icon status for a brief time, but like so many of today's living fossils, she hasn't had the good judgment or grace to get off the stage and out of the spotlight.
The world is ready for something fresh.
I feel sorry for anyone who was alive in the '80s who didn't like Madonna, Desperately Seeking Susan, Vision Quest, or the great joke Madonna pulled on Pepsi.
So we’re starting the day picturing a young, willing Madonna on her knees.
Thanks Althouse!
i liked that movie..
Rosanna was an excellent magicians assistant. Didn't realize Madonna was in it too
I take some comfort in knowing that she didn't have much of a movie career. I think she was famous for making bad movies. But, anyway, she was famous. She really has the knack of being famous.
"good-looking whores"?
Madonna was NEVER good-looking IMHO. She had a trashy, come f*ck me style, that seems to be part of the set of younger women since then. "I'm a slut and proud of it"
There were just a few of her songs that I liked in her heyday. She had a quirky type of appeal in her early days of promoting herself. When the nudes of her came out, back in the day, the repulse I felt of her underarm hair overcame my prurient interest in her bare breast and public hair. She is today, of course, a pathetic copy of herself. She didn't age well and to exhibit that onstage and online is off-putting.
There’s a brief note in Wikipedia saying that Madonna was Seidelman’s neighbor, according to DVD commentary on the movie. I remember seeing the movie in the theater in 1985 and enjoying it immensely. Years later I ended up living not too far from where Love Saves the Day had been. It’s a snapshot-in-time movie. Some of those endure, some don’t.
It was a cute and funny movie. Madonna was great in the role, and the filmmakers for lucky that she had become a megastar with the Like A Virgin album. I don't really understand the hostility.
The following day Madonna walked into Barbara’s office, fell on her knees, and said, “I’ll do anything to get this part.” Barbara responded: “Sorry, I’m heterosexual.” And Madonna replied: “How do you know unless you try?”
But Weinstein is the one at fault.
“Why do we promote and celebrate these good looking whores?”
Because we can.
Madonna was okay. She was no Valerie Carter, looks or talent-wise.
I liked the movie at the time. We all knew Madonna from MTV.
In all the years since, I've never wanted to rewatch it (and I'll rewatch anything I liked). I never see it playing as a retro classic on streaming services. My Gen Z daughter knows nothing about it and it never crosses her path. Madonna is uninteresting to her.
I'm with the person who said Madonna's fame won't last beyond her lifetime.
Sounds like they had Madonna nailed in that Weird Al movie “Weird.”
Madonna was never beautiful, but she was hot, she was attractive. Rosanne Arquette was so great in that movie, then she trashed her own career by refusing to sleep with Fat Bastard. I wonder if making himself so repulsive was a part of Weinstein’s power trip. You know, complete suppression of the actress’s will, because if she got anything out of it, well his victory over her was incomplete.
You can dance
For inspiration
Come on
I'm waiting
Desperately Seeking Susan came out in late Winter/early Spring 1985 (I saw it in the theaters)- when the movie was released, Madonna's ascent into superstardom had already occurred with the release of her second studio album Like a Virgin. However, the movie was certainly cast no later than the Summer of 1984 (and probably the end of 1983 just before she had her first chart hit), at which time Madonna was still grinding out a living in the music business. Like the 15 year old son in the article, I was already aware of her and was already a big fan by the end of 1983. Casting her was a gamble, but the fact is the movie is atrocious and Madonna is terrible actress- she shouldn't have been cast. In the end, she didn't need to be an actress to be famous and rich.
Watch this and tell me Madonna wasn't beautiful. Or this from 15 years later.
Desperately Seeking Susan was *the* only decent movie role she was ever in, and she was good. De gustabus.
Marcus Bressler said...
When the nudes of her came out, back in the day, the repulse I felt of her underarm hair overcame my prurient interest in her bare breast and public hair.
*************
And what pubic hair it was!---it reminded me of the Amazon rain forest.
But still very anti-"Brazilian", IYKWIM.
I didn't know Madonna was funny. People like funny people.
"Madonna then took a pencil and paper off of Barbara’s desk and wrote a note: Dear David, Tell you mother to give me this role...."
I would laugh. How could you not want to at least give that person a shot and let them read?
Madge was made by gays.
Now, "A League of Their Own" I've watched multiple times. Madonna is great in that.
"She was a flirt who made everyone she flirted with feel a little bit sexier. Men and women. That was her gift."
Isn't this everyone in Hollywood?
Is this the same Arquette with huge tits who is as crazy as a loon?
Madonna is the Streisand of her era. And still is. Will there be a Madonna Effect identified with her as there is a Streisand Effect for Barbara?
I did see Desperately Seeking Susan back in the day, and don't recall hating it. I don't have a wish to re-view it however.
Kinda wonder what happened to David! I hope he gets a Christmas Card from Madonna every year.
Like her in Dick Tracy. She did a movie "Eva" i think, where she was Eva Peron. I never saw it, but remember "dont cry for me, Argentina".
Never a big fan of Madonna, like some others here I didn't remember she was in Desperately Seeking Susan (but I did remember Rosana Arquette). Every time I hear her name now, all I can think of is Todd Snider's song All Right Guy
"You know just the other morning I was hanging around in my house
I had that new book with pictures of Madonna naked, I was checking it out
Just then a friend of mine came through the door
Said she never pegged me for a scumbag before
She said she didn't ever wanna see me anymore
And I still don't know why
I think I'm an alright guy"
"Madonna is the Streisand of her era."
Sorta. She's like Streisand only better looking and without the ego and nose the size of Mack truck.
Okay, League was pretty good.
The movie isn't that good but Richard Hell is in it for the first couple of minutes. I think it's his jacket that she steals.
Women can be attractive.
Women can be hot.
There is a difference.
Some women are both attractive and hot.
Madonna proves that women can also be hot, but not attractive.
"Madonna proves that women can also be hot, but not attractive."
You nailed it. Madonna's face is a six, but she has a 10 body and is clever.
Mehdonna.
“Sorta. She's like Streisand only better looking and without the ego and nose the size of Mack truck.”
And the anti-Semitic beclowning continuezzzzz
"This tale doesn't pass the smell test. By mid 80s Madonna was huge, probably only second to Michael Jackson at the time. Can't believe someone in the entertainment biz didn't know who she was. If not the music, then certainly the name."
Desperately Seeking Susan released in March 1985. So it would have been filmed in the summer of 1984 when Madonna was recording her second album Like a Virgin.
It was after the release of that album in November 1984 when Madonna became a superstar. So I can see how the director hadn't heard of her when casting the film in the spring of 1984.
As others have noted, Madonna’s effective and sometimes excellent in “Desperately Seeking Susan,” “Dick Tracy,” and “A League of Their Own.” She could have played the kind of parts Eve Arden played in the 40s (or that Joan Cusack played in the 90s) but maybe a film career like that didn’t interest her.
Madonna's effectiveness was mostly limited to the 4-minute video format. She tried like crazy with films like "Evita" and "Dick Tracy" but it felt forced. She did have a small part in a James Bond film as the black leather-wearing fencing instructor and that role actually worked.
I liked "Desperately Seeking Susan" mainly because to me it was a snapshot of Manhattan in the mid-eighties with its dirt, grit, and freewheeling energy. I was smack in the middle of high school then and it was a popular film.
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