৪ মে, ২০২৪

"Who among the protesters really thought that Columbia’s president, Minouche Shafik, and the board of trustees would view the occupation of Hamilton Hall..."

"... and say, 'Oh, if the students feel that strongly, then let’s divest from Israel immediately'? The point seemed less to make change than to manifest anger for its own sake, with the encampment having become old news. The initial protest was an effective way to show how fervently a great many people oppose the war, but the time had come for another phase: slow, steady suasion. This is not capitulation but a change in tactics.... We recall [Martin Luther] King most vividly in protests, including being imprisoned for his participation. However, his daily life as head of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference was about endless and often frustrating negotiations with people in power, which eventually bore fruit. In this, as much as in marches, he and his comrades created the America we know today. Smoking hot orations about Black Power might have instilled some pride but created little beyond that...."

Writes John McWhorter, in "The Columbia Protests Made the Same Mistake the Civil Rights Movement Did" (NYT).

৬৪টি মন্তব্য:

n.n বলেছেন...

Invitation and reconciliation in good faith will overcome obstacles bred by diversity. As for the pro-Hamas et al protests, murder, rape, torture, and abduction are no ethical vice, and come with forward-looking benefits in liberal cultures.

Joe Smith বলেছেন...

The 'protesters' don't care about anything but themselves.

They are mush-headed communist narcissists...

JK Brown বলেছেন...

Party like it's 1968 when the protestors got Richard Nixon in the White House. Win for America, loss for the "higher-ed" kids of the time.

mikee বলেছেন...

Let's be clear with our words. A great many people don't oppose the war, they oppose the victory of Israel in the war being waged between Israel and Hamas, which is the elected government of the people in Gaza, and those people in Gaza who support Hamas. The protesters, as far as anyone can tell, are fine with the Hamas-proposed genocide of all Israelis Jew or Muslim, and incidentally, are fine with Hamas' brutal rule over Palestinians in Gaza.

The protesters don't oppose war. They don't want their side to lose the war, again.

RCOCEAN II বলেছেন...

I dont really understand this. Its not either or. McWhorter is a leftist, so I'm suprised he's writing like conservative. The right wing always thinks you can only do one thing at a time. We either do this, or we do that. We pass tax cuts or we secure the border. We fight the war on terror, or we try to get social conservative.

The left always does several things at once. There's no reason why you cant Protest the Palestinian Genocide by Israel AND work behind the scenes to get powerful people to show some humanity and stop the murderous IDF. Lawyers can also work on the Hague Court to get Netenyahu a war criminal.

The civil rights protests in the 60s were accompanied by all kinds of effort. People working on Congress to pass bills. Lawyers bringing Lawsuits. People working on the state level. Others in the Entertainment Industry put out Civil Rights Propaganda.

To say, Protests in the ONLY Way to go is wrong. But to say they should stop the protests to do something else is also wrong. Keep protesting AND do other things.

RCOCEAN II বলেছেন...

I dont really understand this. Its not either or. McWhorter is a leftist, so I'm suprised he's writing like conservative. The right wing always thinks you can only do one thing at a time. We either do this, or we do that. We pass tax cuts or we secure the border. We fight the war on terror, or we try to get social conservative.

The left always does several things at once. There's no reason why you cant Protest the Palestinian Genocide by Israel AND work behind the scenes to get powerful people to show some humanity and stop the murderous IDF. Lawyers can also work on the Hague Court to get Netenyahu a war criminal.

The civil rights protests in the 60s were accompanied by all kinds of effort. People working on Congress to pass bills. Lawyers bringing Lawsuits. People working on the state level. Others in the Entertainment Industry put out Civil Rights Propaganda.

To say, Protests in the ONLY Way to go is wrong. But to say they should stop the protests to do something else is also wrong. Keep protesting AND do other things.

Tina Trent বলেছেন...

Again, McWhorter completely misunderstands history. The violent radicals of the Sixties are far more influential at shaping the society we live in today. And they own the children of tomorrow.

rhhardin বলেছেন...

He's still arguing who's the most oppressed instead of who has been acting morally (trade with Gaza for mutual benefit) and who immorally (each attempt shot down or blown up) for the last few decades.

Pillage Idiot বলেছেন...

The Ole Miss riot occurred in 1962 when violent, racist Democrats blocked a young black man from entering the University during the desegregation era following Brown v. Board of Education.

Fast forward to today. Violent, racist Leftists block the young Jewish students from entering the classrooms, study halls, and libraries.

At Northwestern, the administration decides to do the equivalent of announcing five Klan scholarships will be created, and an endowment will be created for one Klan professorship!

Rewarding violent racists for their actions? Wonder if we will get MORE of that in the future, or less of it from the Leftists whose only understanding of economics is how to capture subsidies!

These "best and brightest" college administrators couldn't handle a pre-school class of two-year-olds.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

Pro-Hamas radicals are simply modern day Nazi youth.

or - Cantifa.

JIM বলেছেন...

The Civil Rights protests weren't based on a false narrative.

Krumhorn বলেছেন...

He writes basic common sense. Nobody is impressed by these explosions of emotions. And yet the current cultural ethos provides the blinkered view that others must value, center, and pedestal what some young spoiled puke thinks, feels, and wants.

And on top of that, they're entitled to have hot lunches (IMPORTANT!) delivered to the encampment.

Fortunately, these assclowns are going to ensure Trump's election.

- Krumhorn

Jonathan Burack বলেছেন...

I cannot access the NYTs so all I have to go on is what Ann provides here. If that is the essence of it, it is a big disappointment. The problem with the current anti-Israel movement is not its lack of "slow, steady suasion," it is the absolute and horrifying injustice of its goals. Its goals are in fact the very genocide against Jews that it inverts into the preposterous claim that it is Israel engaging in genocide. As to "slow steady suasion," it has in fact engaged in that in the form of its repulsive BDS campaigns on college campuses over these past many years. Now, it has moved not simply to more direct civil disobedience, but to storm trooper-like disruptions and acts of overt violence against "Zionists" (i.e. anyone wearing a kippah or Star of David). It is a campaign on behalf of a fascist/Islamist movement, and is not simply a misreading of MLK's message and tactics. Nor is it even like the Black Power alternative to King. It is atavistic in a far more destructive way and, as much as I like McWhorter, if he does not see this, he is not seeing it at all.

Jess বলেছেন...

The identical types of tents, propaganda left behind, and the agitation by some "protesters" do not show any displeasure from the current situation in the Gaza. They do show bored students can easily be led to stupid actions, fomenting riots is a method of causing chaos, university officials are woefully inept in providing security to their students, and the media laps it all up like a dog at spilled ice cream. If I had to guess, it was all fun and games, until the professional agitators faded away and the stupid students found they were alone in their actions. May they be punished accordingly.

Aggie বলেছেন...

"The protests took a wrong turn, of a kind I have seen too many other activist movements take...."

Yeah, this often happens when a cause is hijacked by a well-funded racket before it has a chance to become a movement - to paraphrase Eric Hoffer.

Quaestor বলেছেন...

John McWhorter doesn't know a great many people.

Original Mike বলেছেন...

"The point seemed less to make change than to manifest anger for its own sake, with the encampment having become old news. "

I don't have first hand experience so my opinion may be missing perspective, but IDK* why the schools didn't just ignore the encampments. In Madison the videos seemed to show a small number of protesters taking up a fraction of Library Mall. Easy enough to just walk around them.

*I think it likely the Administration wants to interact with the protesters. "Fighting" them boosts the protesters standing, which the Administration wants to do.

loudogblog বলেছেন...

Does John McWhorter realize that many colleges, like Rutgers, have actually given into the protestor's demands?

Sebastian বলেছেন...

"The point seemed less to make change than to manifest anger for its own sake"

This is absurd. Progs applied maximum pressure to undermine the adversary, benefit from the "overreaction," and garner (!) sympathy.

"The initial protest was an effective way to show how fervently a great many people oppose the war, but the time had come for another phase: slow, steady suasion"

Quite the opposite. For the left, it's not about just "showing opposition," and the time for talking is over. Escalation is not at all a "mistake," in the long lefty game.

Such weak-kneed, woolly-headed, nice-liberal misunderstanding itself hampers a concerted counteroffensive.

Mikey NTH বলেছেন...

Perhaps the protesters taking the side of the odius terrorist group Hamas may have put off the sort of people who would support a call for equal civil rights? Or is that just a little too obvious? I think that if the US civil rights movement had proposed raping their foes to death they might have received a different reaction from the general public.

Mikey NTH বলেছেন...
এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।
n.n বলেছেন...

OccupyColumbia, Antifa, SS BLM... insurrection.

Narayanan বলেছেন...

The initial protest was an effective way to show how fervently a great many people oppose the war,....
==============
so this gentleman accepts the narrative that the protest is about Gaza War! and *protesteers were cognizant of htat aim/purpose/goal!

*protesteers = steered protesters

Goetz von Berlichingen বলেছেন...

McWhorter seems to be taking the protests at face value. I do not. I see the unrest as being largely funded and logistically aided by outside sources. Foreign sources. Those sources have no interest in suasion. What would they negotiate when the ultimate goal is the destruction of capitalism and democracy?

So I view his premise as naive.

MfG,
Goetz von Berlichingen

Leland বলেছেন...

Needed more authors.

traditionalguy বলেছেন...

Attacking the Jews always goes bad sooner or later.

Rabel বলেছেন...

I'm sure that many of the protesters expected accommodation from the administration. That is the new normal.

And his time line ignores that the "slow, steady suasion" of BDS has been around for 20 years, that time has come and gone.

All-in-all this is as poorly argued as his last column.

I think his proximity to the protests and the turmoil has thrown him off his game.

Greg the Class Traitor বলেছেন...

'Oh, if the students feel that strongly, then let’s divest from Israel immediately'?

You know what's a sure sign of someone being a complete and total moron, lacking all brain cells?

It's someone who believes that anyone else will give a shit about their feelings.

PM বলেছেন...

A highly-rated letter to the NYT:

"The emptiness of leftish rhetoric and theory on selective admissions campuses is amplified by the sad irony that the social backgrounds of the vast majority of faculty and students are from the upper classes of society.
These individuals have no experience in the military or law enforcement, labor organization, or hands-on experience in social services that assist the disadvantaged. Too few have ever worked the actual jobs actual people do who don’t get to go to college.
The clueless rhetoric and maladroit public posturing are the symptoms of lives lived apart from the reality lived by most voters. Little wonder that there’s little interest in the message outside the usual academic/social media/tech bubble.
Claiming to speak for the people when you don’t even know what the people themselves are thinking and saying is hypocrisy of a high order indeed."

Eva Marie বলেছেন...

“There's no reason why you cant Protest the Palestinian Genocide by Israel AND work behind the scenes to get powerful people to show some humanity and stop the murderous IDF. Lawyers can also work on the Hague Court to get Netenyahu a war criminal.“
The #1 priority for both US government officials and us, American citizens, should be the safe return of US citizens, kidnapped on Oct 7, forcibly taken to Gaza, and to this day imprisoned there.

n.n বলেছেন...

Needed more author

For the sake of diversity, at least six, without discrimination for color, sex, gender, and class.

Dr Weevil বলেছেন...

Narayanan (1:58pm):
Is "steered protestors" a bovine pun? "Steered" as in castrated so they'll submit to their masters, do what they're told, and eventually provide plenty of fresh meat?

hawkeyedjb বলেছেন...

"how fervently a great many people oppose the war..."

Which war? The one where Hezbollah attack Israel almost daily? Iran's war against Israel? Hamas' war against Israel?

I haven't heard a peep about ending any one of those wars. All I hear is that Hamas needs a cease-fire to regroup, rearm, reload, which protesters seem to fervently favor.

William বলেছেন...

If you're into nihilism and want to completely reject all western norms, Hamas is as good a cause as any. There's much to recommend satanism or the green movement, but their nihilism doesn't inspire anywhere near as much disgust from decent people. It's like the difference between facial tats and a little rose tattoo on your upper arm.

Achilles বলেছেন...

I just want someone to open up and maintain a searchable database of all of the people who are participating in these protests.

lonejustice বলেছেন...

As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. They just have an opinion about the matter, and by god, they are going to post their opinion!

Freder Frederson বলেছেন...

I see the unrest as being largely funded and logistically aided by outside sources. Foreign sources. Those sources have no interest in suasion. What would they negotiate when the ultimate goal is the destruction of capitalism and democracy?

Other than the monkeys flying out of your butt, do have the least shred of evidence that this is occurring? And some random idiot on Xitter saying it, doesn't make it true.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

https://twitter.com/thestustustudio/status/1786541753064931643


The Godfather বলেছেন...

It seems to me that Columbia U. has done a better job in handling the rioters than it did when I was a student there in '68. But the campus rumpuses ("rumpi?") are a side show. The real question is whether the Israelis will persevere in destroying Hamas. I really don't see how that happens. The Hamas leadership won't surrender -- they'll fight to the last Palestinian. Is the Hamas leadership in or anywhere near Gaza? I don't think so. It took fifteen years to bring Eichmann to justice. Will Hamas leadership survive that long?

tcrosse বলেছেন...

I would like a look at the supply chain for the sudden appearance of Palestinian flags, keffiyehs, and tents.

Mary Beth বলেছেন...

random idiot on Xitter

I'm assuming that's pronounced like Exeter (because we're writing in English, not Chinese.) Pretty cool name. I like it.

narciso বলেছেন...

No the chimps are your bag

Assistant Village Idiot বলেছেন...

Thurgood Marshall that Martin and Malcolm were useless and just got people hurt, because the legal battles were everything.

narciso বলেছেন...

it is rather striking how far from the reality, one must adhere, to stay uncancelled,

Original Mike বলেছেন...

"As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. "

Virtually none of us can read it. You don't know this?

narciso বলেছেন...

the premise is wrong, their cause is not noble but evil, israel is perhaps the best regime in thr region, and the only real democracy, there are the leftists and the Arab parties that are trying to destroy it,

Freder Frederson বলেছেন...

I'm assuming that's pronounced like Exeter (because we're writing in English, not Chinese.) Pretty cool name. I like it.

I can't claim credit for coining it. I like to pronounce it "zitter", the X is like xylophone.

charis বলেছেন...

I was in South Carolina a couple of months ago, having breakfast at a Waffle House, and there was an interracial family at at table nearby. A black father, white mother, small biracial children. It was a sweet scene. The waitress treated them kindly, and no one troubled them. This must be part of the fruit that MLK and others made possible a couple of generations ago. But I think the actual work of racial justice now is taking place far away from protests and the Ivy League and elite writers at the NYTimes. It's happening through families, friendships. and a thousand thousand interactions at ground level every day.

Jim at বলেছেন...

Other than the monkeys flying out of your butt, do have the least shred of evidence that this is occurring?

You mean like looking at the pre-printed signs they're holding? With the names of the organizations right there in plain view? Would that be proof enough for you, Monkeypox?

Prof. M. Drout বলেছেন...

"to show how fervently a great many people oppose the war."

This is a bit of weasel-wording. What does "a great many" mean? In comparison to what?

I don't think the protesters have managed to mobilize more than 10% of the student populations at extremely left-wing places, and the percentage who support the side of the rapists and hostage-takers is much smaller than that in every other context except maybe the State Department.

Is the implied argument that "fervor" conveys moral authority? You may want to think that one through before accepting it.

Also, what, exactly, do the protesters think is going to happen if they act more fervent? Israel doesn't need U.S. assistance to finish this war. Is the leverage really supposed to be "Leave enough of Hamas alive to regroup and attack you again, or else we'll refuse to support you in a future conflict?"

The logical response would be for Israel to be MORE aggressive, finish off the remnants of Hamas without as much concern about "civilian" casualties, and assume (correctly) that the whole thing will be forgotten as soon as it is out of the headlines.

Aggie বলেছেন...

@lonejustice said at 16:24" "As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. They just have an opinion about the matter, and by god, they are going to post their opinion!..."


Unlike you, eh, Kemosahbee?

Greg the Class Traitor বলেছেন...

"As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. "

Just because Prof Althouse is a masochist who is willing to read the babbling stupidity and dishonesty of teh NYT doesn't mean the rest of us are that bad off

Jonathan Burack বলেছেন...

lonejustice (at 4:24)
"As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. They just have an opinion about the matter, and by god, they are going to post their opinion!"

This is an arrogant assumption on your part. How do you know what others did or did not read? Also, did YOU read the article, and if so what did YOU get out of it that others missed?

As for me, I did at first simply go by the passage Althouse posted, since that is usually how she prompts a discussion. However, I did then find a way to access the article and read a good deal of it. It is much worse even then I at first supposed. McWhorter actually accepts the Hamas death numbers which have been shown to be bogus. He also seems to accept the deluded idea that the carnage in Gaza is huge and horrid in some special way, and by implication unique compared with the many other, vastly larger slaughters that are underway or have been recently -- to no concern whatsoever from his fellow Columbians.

So having gone into it deeper, I find my disappointment in McWhorter confirmed and made even stronger. Just in case you are really interested.

effinayright বলেছেন...

@lonejustice said at 16:24"

"As is usual, almost no Althouse commentators bothered to read the NYT article. They just have an opinion about the matter, and by god, they are going to post their opinion!..."
*******************

Ah, to go back to the Good Old Days, when every internet site did not importune you for subscription money, assuming that each and every article they post was worth paying for!

And if you don't want to pay, then....fuck you! If all you rely on is the lede, you're an uninformed moron.

NEVER MIND that ledes are supposed to condense the substance of the story.

NEVER MIND that lonejustice himself offers no opinions here, just snark about the opinions of others.

SNORT

Nancy বলেছেন...

What Jonathan Burack said.
1. You can read the article on Archive.ph
2. I was disgusted by Mc W's ignorance and fake moral equivalence which was evident in the full piece.

Goldenpause বলেছেন...

McWhorter is a mirror reflecting the NYT world view. He has given us valuable insights into the deluded thinking of our so-called elites.

gadfly বলেছেন...

Salon observes:

Let’s set aside questions of the merits of the protests and the various police and administration responses to them. Most of the relevant parties here got rolled by the [Trumpian Republicans]. On the hunt for footage and storylines that they can then inflate into broader narratives of chaos, intolerance, and disorder in a critical election year, [MAGA members] spun campus protests over Gaza into congressional hearings on campus antisemitism and trusted that everyone involved would respond so ineptly that they’d be able to exploit the whole thing for months.

Student demands for divestiture of investments in Israel is out-and-out stupid. Sell-off of university investments begets a buyer for these exact financial instruments, likely at a higher value. In the end, only tent makers will suffer business losses.

Freder Frederson বলেছেন...

Would that be proof enough for you, Monkeypox?

It would be if you were kind enough to provide a link. My searches showed mostly hand painted signs (and the tents weren't all identical either, as many people are claiming on the internet).

Did you know that the chain that the police spokesman wielded to "prove" that outside agitators were involved, was actually a Kryptonite bike lock that you can buy at the Columbia bookstore?

Even if there were some professionally printed signs, so what? It is easy to make a sign on your computer and run it down to the nearest Staples (or heck probably even the Columbia bookstore) and get it printed on a large format printer for a few bucks.

Oh, and your middle school wit is very charming. Why don't you just call me a "little fag" and be done with it?

Rusty বলেছেন...

Here ya go Freder.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135


"Oh, and your middle school wit is very charming. Why don't you just call me a "little fag" and be done with it?"
It fits your middleschool abilities

Rusty বলেছেন...

Here ya go Freder.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135


"Oh, and your middle school wit is very charming. Why don't you just call me a "little fag" and be done with it?"
It fits your middleschool abilities

Wait! There's more!
https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/student-campus-protests-veteran-activist-groups-17ccd094?st=y3glnxw0sush272&reflink=article_email_share

Rusty বলেছেন...

I guess that's inconvenient, huh, Freder.

chickelit বলেছেন...

Prove you are not a robot!

Click on every identical tent in this photo: link

chickelit বলেছেন...

The larger, more spacious tent in that photo is for Hama leadership and their harem.

loudogblog বলেছেন...

Add Occidental College to the list of colleges that have given into the protestor's demands.

https://theoccidentalnews.com/news/2024/05/07/college-sjp-and-jvp-protestors-announce-agreement-to-consider-divestment-encampment-will-come-down/2912470