Here's a gift link to the NYT's live coverage of the Trump trial.
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"Michael Cohen is now explicitly testifying that the invoices he was sending, which he has sought to tie to Trump, were false documents."
"He is going over the monthly invoices he created, which described him as having been paid for 'services rendered,' and testifying that they were false records. He stresses they weren’t valid legal fees, but 'reimbursements.' Michael Cohen confirms that in response to the false invoices, he received 11 checks in 2017 totaling $420,000...."
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You know that's an interesting take. Bragg is supposedly pursuing Trump for "false records". Trump's accounting people listed these payments as legal expenses. Bragg has some convoluted theory which he hasn't fully explained (and may never be able to explain) that such an accounting entry was a campaign contribution.
And here his star witness now says that a legal fill "for services rendered" was a false document. We're down the rabbit hole into wonderland here.
Only a moron would believe this isn't all a scam.
Democrat Rep. Dan Goldman has been helping prep Michael Cohen prepare for his testimony. Goldman represents NY's 10th congressional district. Part of Brooklyn.
Sad irony The Statue of Liberty is visible from his district.
Destroy his credibility!
A porn star and convicted felon/disbarred attorney are the critical witnesses for the State of New York.
You know how in cop shows, the DA gives one small criminal a break to testify against a bigger criminal?
Cohen is the bigger criminal.
In fact, he's the only criminal.
But the partisan blindness of the zealot prosecutor can't see that...
Reimbursements to a lawyer are legal fees by any normal usage of language.
So as legit as victor smirnov then
The credibility of Cohen, or Stormy Daniels doesn't matter.
This is a NYC jury. They have to go home and face their insane NYC family and friends. A conviction is expected. My assumption is they will deliver. If they find Trump "not guilty" they know there will be post-trial knocks on their doors.
I assume he is able to match these reimbursements to the expenses he was being reimbursed for and can show those expenses were related to work for Trump. And, as Yancey touched on, it would be a violation to classify them as legal fees.
Maybe he can do all that. I would expect the first step--matching these reimbursements to Trump-related expenses--will be easy if it's true. But that second step--showing that Trump knowingly and inappropriately classified them as legal fees will be a tough sell even if true.
As a former bank internal auditor, I can say with great certainty that if the invoice from an attorney is for "legal expenses," then it will be entered in the ledger as a legal expense. And there would be no reason for an internal auditor to doubt its veracity.
Bragg and his team are playing "Show me the man and I will find the crime."
So who was Trump supposed to be hiding these payments from allegedly?
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer is now a felon according to these people.
Serious Question
*IF* things were the reverse..
And Trump had used campaign funds to pay for the NDA.. Would THAT have been a crime?
How can doing something be a crime.. And NOT doing that thing ALSO be a crime?
@VivekGRamaswamy
Here’s the best proof that the Trump trial is a sham: if DJT had done the exact *opposite* of the alleged crime, they’d still be prosecuting him & have an even stronger case. Watch & think about it.
The desperation of the Biden Regime is actually somewhat shocking.
This was planned months ago. They knew how pathetic this case was and they still brought it.
If people actually had to show up with ID and have to be able to read and fill out a ballot Biden wouldn't get 60 million votes. He would lose California and New York.
Not all that unusual for the records of a criminal enterprise to be in coded form. It's not like they are going to put in their ledgers: "$100,000 paid to hit man Bob Jones for murder of John Smith."
I suspect that anyone who does a deep dive into Cohen's records are going to find that Cohen created any fake invoices not to hide the purpose of Trump spending the money but rather to conceal the fact that Cohen was ripping Trump off. Someone should probably add up the direct reimbursements claimed by Cohen from Trump Inc. and what Cohen was actually sending on to people like Daniels and her lawyers- I guarantee you that Cohen was making creating fictitious payoffs.
"And, as Yancey touched on, it would be a violation to classify them as legal fees."
I am assuming there is an omitted contraction on "would" (a mistake I make almost every single day).
"So who was Trump supposed to be hiding these payments from allegedly?"
The DNC and the media, but I repeat myself.
The Vault Dweller said...
So who was Trump supposed to be hiding these payments from allegedly?
He wasn't hiding them even according to Bragg.
What Bragg is saying is that Trump did not declare this money as a campaign contribution and that this means he illegally influenced the 2016 election with unregistered undocumented donations thus violating FEC regulations and thus it is a felony.
And "Judge" Merchan refused to allow the FEC Officer that investigated this testify that he did not think this violated FEC regulations.
That was right before "Judge" Merchan's daughter sent out another email fundraiser for democrats about Trump's "criminal" activities and right after "Judge" Merchan ordered Trump to stop talking about his daughter's fundraising.
It's beginning to look like Cohen and Pecker were figuring out ways to get into Trump's pocket.
Pecker would go out and find/make up stories and relay them to Cohen.
Cohen would tell Trump there was a problem but it would be taken care of.
Cohen would then bill for the hours 'solving' issues that didn't exist.
Trump was either too busy or too rich to care, or trusted his attorney, which is what I do.
So, Bragg et al did not do due diligence to audit their evidence including witnesses. The irony of indicting Trump for alleged crimes that they have committed using the public treasury. In Georgia, too. In Michigan, as well. In the District of Corruption, with progressive processes and blood on their hands... out, out damned spot.
So if I as an individual citizen pay my attorney for “legal fees” out of my own pocket, does that count as a public document in the state of NY? Didn’t Trump pay Cohen out of his own funds? And isn’t he allowed to contribute an unlimited amount to his own campaign? Are they saying that the campaign should have paid for this and not Trump?
I’m confused.
Mark said...
Not all that unusual for the records of a criminal enterprise to be in coded form.
Ok, Mark, now enlighten us as to what is "criminal" in all this, and remember the head of the FEC has already said on record (even though the kangaroo in black robes running this insance clown posse won't allow him to testify) that Trump did not violate Federal campaign contribution laws and IIRC there is no charge that Trump violated NY election laws, either.
It's a books-and-records case. Trump entered these transactions in the company's books and records falsely? No testimony supports that.
A lawyer convicted of perjury and labeled a serial perjurer by a federal judge walks into a bar and says, "believe me, just swear me in...."
Quotes from the Substack link I put in a earlier Trump post, regarding the Pomerantz book The People vs Trump:
Pomerantz describes himself interviewing witnesses, and trying to flip potential cooperators, and endlessly sorting through Trump’s business records and tax records. But in 280 pages of detailed description, there are a few things he never does:
He never interviews a person he identifies as a victim or a complainant.
He never reviews a victim’s statement.
He never reviews a complaint that someone outside government has filed against Trump.
So how did a dozen prosecutors assemble a case against Trump?
They didn’t start with a suspected crime, or with a victim, or with a complaint. They started with a target, with someone they wanted to charge with something, and then went looking for something to charge him with. No one reported Trump to the police; the DA just felt like investigating him.
Is that how it's supposed to work in the USA? I doubt even "Mark" would answer affirmatively. Even Cy Vance passed on it. They had to get lowlife Bragg into office to do the dirty deed.
How were Trump's accountants supposed to know the bills were fake? That has to be brought in and I haven't seen that yet.
Mark said...Not all that unusual for the records of a criminal enterprise to be in coded form
True. But as I'm sure you know, paying Daniels for a non-disclosure agreement is not a crime.
It was long ago and faraway. As a young pup lawyer in the biggest law firm in San Diego--70 lawyers in 1971. I was responsible for preparing the bills for the cases I was working on--even though bulk of the billable hours were for the partner on the case.
Computerization was coming to the legal world The firm had purchased an early and large computer to keep billing records. The computer offered 10 different formats for bills.
The most complicated format identified the lawyer working, described his or her work, had the hours worked by day etc.
The simplest format? "For legal services rendered X dollars". Even then corporate clients weren't ready to accept that sort of bill--they liked details. But where individuals were clients, such bills were not uncommon.
Mark said...
Not all that unusual for the records of a criminal enterprise to be in coded form. It's not like they are going to put in their ledgers: "$100,000 paid to hit man Bob Jones for murder of John Smith."
Case in point.
Mark thinks that any political opponent who paid a lawyer for anything is really trying to pay for murdering people and must be thrown in jail now.
Mark also voted for Bill Clinton who paid Paula Jones 850000$ and is a known rapist.
In the end Mark believes the judicial system only exists to keep him and his tribe in power.
People like Mark are incompatible with any type of free society.
"Not all that unusual for the records of a criminal enterprise to be in coded form. It's not like they are going to put in their ledgers: "$100,000 paid to hit man Bob Jones for murder of John Smith."
Same question Chuck dodges all the time, Mark- what was the crime being covered up?
Alvin and his Chippies
Blogger Yancey Ward said...
I suspect that anyone who does a deep dive into Cohen's records are going to find that Cohen created any fake invoices not to hide the purpose of Trump spending the money but rather to conceal the fact that Cohen was ripping Trump off. Someone should probably add up the direct reimbursements claimed by Cohen from Trump Inc
The 76 year old financial manager for Trump who is in jail because of fake accusations by Bragg was the one who cut off Manafort when he tried to rip off Trump. Pretty useful, and honest, guy.
I’m a retired patent attorney. When my firms would send out monthly bills to clients there would be two components to the monthly charge: (1) attorneys fees listed by attorney name, billing rate, and hours worked on identified tasks; and (2) disbursements such as travel costs, meal expenses, copying costs, deposition stenographer fees, and sometimes expert witness fees. Arguably, paying back Cohen for funds he advanced to Stormy Daniels could fall under a disbursement.
Other than the alleged falsified business records for which the statute of limitations has run, I don’t see what other crime has been committed. Trump didn’t used campaign funds to payoff Daniel’s or reimburse Cohen. Presumably Trump paid taxes on those funds when he earned it and presumably Daniels and Cohen paid any owed taxes on the funds they received. The only arguable crime that I can postulate is if Trump defrauded his company by using company funds to payoff a personal expense that he disguised as a business expense, I.e., legal fees, but I haven’t heard that theory presented by the prosecution.
Kafka couldn’t have written this script better. Trump is being persecuted by the Intelligence guys who actually run things. Which proves Trump is on our side.
Sounds a lot more like Cohen was just sending in invoices, hoping to get paid. And you have to wonder just how much work he actually did.
Soo... how is this Trump's fault? Because he didn't do a line-item audit of everything his accountants did?
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer is now a felon according to these people
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer received a line-item bill that was detailed down to the tenth of an hour.
So who was Trump supposed to be hiding these payments from allegedly?
He was hiding these internal records from someone, apparently, otherwise the record would say "Payment to porn star for nondisclosure of sex that never happened."
Cohen created any fake invoices not to hide the purpose of Trump spending the money but rather to conceal the fact that Cohen was ripping Trump off
So, Trump the brilliant business man just handed out his money without demanding proof from Cohen of exactly what he was paying for? Trump was so easily fooled?
You know, whatever defense is offered for Trump only ends up making him look bad.
Jersey Fled said...
So if I as an individual citizen pay my attorney for “legal fees” out of my own pocket, does that count as a public document in the state of NY? Didn’t Trump pay Cohen out of his own funds? And isn’t he allowed to contribute an unlimited amount to his own campaign? Are they saying that the campaign should have paid for this and not Trump?
I’m confused.
That is exactly what they are saying.
They are claiming this was an unreported in kind contribution to Trump's campaign and that this was illegal influencing of the 2016 election.
And they will not let the FEC Officer who investigated this case testify in court.
Guess why "Judge" Merchan wont let him testify.
Didn't Cohen record his client without his permission, and then share that recording? Isn't that proof that Cohen was going to blackmail Trump?
Isn't that a crime in New York?
If he wasn't already disbarred, you would think that would be enough....
Didn’t Hillary pay for the dossier out of “legal fees”?
Mark wrote:
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer received a line-item bill that was detailed down to the tenth of an hour.
Not in the UK they don't.
Doubt if they do in the US
Previous testimony presented claimed that Trump was not in favor of paying off Clifford. Cohen did it anyway and then combined his expenses with the payoff expense as a single invoice. Trump, getting what Cohen now claims was a fraudulent invoice prepared by Cohen, paid the invoice as received. I’m seeing a potential civil crime committed by Cohen, but I am missing any misdemeanor or felony on Trump’s part.
That’s before discussing the issue of Cohen unethically recording his client and potentially doing so illegally without the other person’s knowledge.
I understand these pesky details may mean nothing to a New York jury that reads the NYTimes, but I can’t imagine any appellant court standing behind a case tried with the evidence presented. I also understand that a successful appeal is mostly irrelevant, if the initial conviction is enough to block a fair election this November.
So, Trump the brilliant business man just handed out his money without demanding proof from Cohen of exactly what he was paying for?
You know what separates brilliant businessmen from the not so brilliant? It's that they don't allow themselves to get lost in every detail of every activity. They have staff for a reason.
It is amazing how effective TDS is of making people absolutely idiotic. And you thought you had a brilliant zinger. Sad.
This is a tragic abuse of prosecutorial powers. Why can't these officers of the court go back to work on what they do best: exonerating cops for murdering black citizens. I hear NYC is suffering from another "loosie" epidemic since the Trump trial started.
If those were false documents then he is admitting to fraud against Donald Trump.
Didn’t Hillary pay for the dossier out of “legal fees”?
That's different, silly rabbit.
She's a democrat.
Mark said...
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer is now a felon according to these people
Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer received a line-item bill that was detailed down to the tenth of an hour.
So you are saying that when Bill Clinton paid Paula Jones 850000$ he got an invoice and he should go to jail for paying it.
When Hillary paid Perkins and Coie for the steel Dossier she also committed a felony and should go to jail too it seems.
We just got invoiced by a lawyer for setting up a some accounts for us. Guess we are going to jail too.
Oh wait I forgot. Mark only cares about this when political opponents pay lawyers. My bad.
You fascist piece of shit.
Howard said...
This is a tragic abuse of prosecutorial powers. Why can't these officers of the court go back to work on what they do best: exonerating cops for murdering black citizens. I hear NYC is suffering from another "loosie" epidemic since the Trump trial started.
4/10
Would have been better if you mentioned letting illegals out of jail for murdering and raping or letting shooters go free because of no cash bail policies.
"He was hiding these internal records from someone, apparently, otherwise the record would say "Payment to porn star for nondisclosure of sex that never happened."
And there it is! I assume that is the crime, right, Mark- buying an NDA and then not publicizing the reason for the NDA. I pity anyone who has you as a lawyer.
That’s Mark’s desperate story and he’s sticking to it.
I note that Mark took the time to individually answer three comments posted before and after mine but declined to specify what is criminal about Trump's actions in this case.
Trump supposedly paid Stormy 130,000 not 400,000 +. So these records prove nothing.
The corporate world uses NDAs all the time to settle lawsuits, threatened lawsuits, potential lawsuits, and people threatening to make bad publicity for the firm. I imagine all of them list such settlements as legal fees in their accounting of the payments without outlining anywhere the exact purpose of the payments. What fucking good would having a lawyer be a lot of the time if you had to disclose in detail what you paid for?
Enjoying how much 'other Mark' has upset the Trump defenders.
TDS indeed.
"A porn star and convicted felon/disbarred attorney are the critical witnesses for the State of New York."
Yeah, well...they are people Trump happily consorted with as long as he could use them for his own benefit. Like attracts like!
"You know what separates brilliant businessmen from the not so brilliant? It's that they don't allow themselves to get lost in every detail of every activity. They have staff for a reason."
Wha---!!?? Hahahahahahahahaha!!!
What about the shitty businessmen? Whatever Trump has been doing for many years.
Mark said...
Enjoying how much 'other Mark' has upset the Trump defenders.
TDS indeed.
At this point it is hard to tell the stupid Biden supporters apart from the stupid Desantis supporters.
There's two Marks?
A porn star and convicted felon/disbarred attorney are the critical witnesses for the State of New York.
============
heart wrenching story of redemption! if you look at it sideways.
was not false billing the fake out that Tom Cruise used against retribution by Mafia in The Firm?
A porn star and convicted felon/disbarred attorney are the critical witnesses for the State of New York.
============
I call it heart wrenching story of redemption! if you look at it sideways.
“Every single person who has paid an invoice from a lawyer received a line-item bill that was detailed down to the tenth of an hour.”
Actually, that isn’t true. There have long been elite lawyers who just send out bottom line bills. If you don’t like 5he way that they bill, you can use another lawyer, one crass enough to itemize their billing. You probably couldn’t have afforded these elite lawyers anyway.
As a (now retired) patent attorney, we did a lot of flat rate work. A lot of clients preferred it. A lot of purely hourly can eat you alive, as a client. They prefer budgeting certainty. As the patent attorney, you just have to protect yourself from clients who have evolving invention disclosures, and the like. I was I a small boutique firm that merged into a large general practice firm, and this was at the center of our culture shock we faced fitting in. For them, there was no such thing as flat billing, and everything revolved around the billable hour. A lot of those attorneys managed to bill more than an hour in an hour through rounding up phone calls and the like. They also billed for copies and long distance calls. I considered those to be unethical profit centers. Actually, our entire IP Practice Group did a lot of flat rate work, but billed as if it were hourly by dividing the flat rate by their billing rate.
Let's get back to basics: whether the invoices and payments were falsely labeled or not, the Federal Election Commission decided the transaction itself did not violate any reg or law.
IOW there IS no crime here! ESPECIALLY since (as Mark Levin has shown on his TV program) the FEC has EXCLUSIVE jurisdiction over interpretation and enforcement of federal election law.
(Mark can stick his crackpot assertions about what invoices and payment for legal services MUST SPECIFICALLY say. Pure nonsense. And utterly immaterial.)
What about the shitty businessmen? Whatever Trump has been doing for many years.
We went over this in detail within the past week or two, you dolt. Trump has founded nearly 500 different companies. Fewer than ten of them have gone bankrupt. It's one of the best batting averages in the entire history of American business. You don't fly around in a private Boeing 757 for decades if your companies don't spin off a shitload of money.
Also, leftists who have never run so much as a hot dog cart are constantly accusing him of "stiffing" his contractors and vendors, but there are apparently only two cases that actually made it to court for non-payment by one of his companies, and in both cases there were counterclaims by Trump against the subcontractor for failure to deliver the promised work. This is quite normal in the real estate business. If the accusations of the left-wing news media scum were true, he'd never again get anybody to work for him after about two years in the business, and yet, there are hundreds of buildings that bear his name...
By contrast, the darling of the Left, Bernie Sanders, was kicked out of a hippie commune for being too lazy, and since then he has never held a job that didn't get paid out of other peoples' taxes. Joe Biden is scarcely any better. Bottom quintile at a third-tier toilet of a law school, serial plagiarist, unsuccessful ambulance chaser for a year and a half, and then sucking the taxpayer's tit for the rest of his worthless life. Like most Democrat politicians, they are leeches and shit-heaps who aren't fit to shine Donald Trump's shoes for pocket change.
Sometimes I think of a word as the precise noun or adjective to describe a situation, and I'm not sure why or how it came to me. Today's word is "scrofulous".
So far the only thing in this legal fiasco that has swayed me against Trump is the poor judgement demonstrated in employing Michael Cohen.
Sure I get an itemized invoice from my lawyer but it is not “to the tenth of an hour” Mark. So why are you avoiding the substantive questions about this case?
Billable hours question: are there in fact laws governing legal billing, as Mark is suggesting? In environmental consulting we billed hours (down to the quarter hour), but only on tasks we had bid as hourly; there was no barrier to billing flat rate. We bid jobs on the basis of how we could potentially win the job. And when we were more or less on retainer, there were still lots of tasks we billed at flat rates.
Original Mike, there are at least 3 of us that have posted in the last few months.
I have been around for nearly 15 years here, unsure about the others.
I had an older friend who sometimes used the catchphrase, "Do you have a note?" when he was asked by coworkers if they could do something skirting, or outside, the previously established boundaries of ethical, legal, GAAP practices. He was asking if the written documentation existed which provided the proper waiver, variance, emergency declaration, etc., which would legally allow his coworker to violate the rule normally in place. It was an important question, because without "a note" there could be substantial penalties under law, including fines and jail time for felonies, for one and all who signed off on the behavior. With the proper documentation, however, one was covered from ankle to neck, and most thoroughly around the backside, immune to future repercussions from inside or outside his employer.
I saw a university secretary go to jail for 3 years for not having a note. The crime was falsifying government records. The act was changing "beer&wine" to "beverages" on a purchase order form, after the unlawful purchase of beer& wine for a party. Amazingly, there would have been no penalty for the actual purchase, it just wasn't allowed under law for certain university funds to be used to buy booze for faculty parties. But falsifying one line item on a purchase order, felony, straight to jail.
I wrote all that to ask, which is more legitimate in the eyes of the law, the actual records as filed, or the current change of intent/meaning/content stated by the originator of the documents? IF one can change the meaning of a legitimate invoice years later, nobody will ever have a safe "note" to do anything, ever again.
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