Althouse: "I have a visceral reaction against, against the attacks on those statues. There were heroes in the Confederacy who didn’t have slaves..."

২৮ মে, ২০২৪

"I have a visceral reaction against, against the attacks on those statues. There were heroes in the Confederacy who didn’t have slaves..."

"... and, you know, I just, I just have a visceral reaction against destroying history. I don’t like it. I think we should celebrate who we are. We should celebrate the good qualities of everybody. … If we want to find people who were completely virtuous on every issue throughout history, we would erase all of history...."

Said RFK Jr., quoted in "RFK Jr. had a ‘visceral’ reaction to tear-downs of Confederate statues/Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said on a podcast that he doesn’t think 'it’s a good, healthy thing for any culture to erase history'" (WaPo).

৯২টি মন্তব্য:

MadisonMan বলেছেন...: He ain't wrong. He's also saying something Joe Biden could never say in a million years.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:০৬ PM
n.n বলেছেন...: American sons of the revolution. Soldiers of the Confederacy, where slavery, diversity, and independence were separable issues on an individual, even community, basis.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:১০ PM
Wince বলেছেন...: You mean to tell me there really are good people on both sides of the issue?; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:১১ PM
Saint Croix বলেছেন...: He's such a good Democrat. I disagree with him on so many things -- abortion in particular. But he really is the best of the Democrats.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:১৬ PM
etbass বলেছেন...: As a southerner for over 50 years, I can understand why blacks would feel alienated by statues honoring men who fought for their continued slavery.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:১৬ PM
mikeski বলেছেন...: But he really is the best of the Democrats.

That seems roughly the same as being the best ice hockey player in Ecuador.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:১৮ PM
mindnumbrobot বলেছেন...: Next thing you know they'll start tearing down statues of the Founding Fathers.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:২১ PM
Michael K বলেছেন...: I think he is a nut on many issues but not this one.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:২২ PM
rhhardin বলেছেন...: The confederate statues were part of reconciliation.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৩৩ PM
Dogma and Pony Show বলেছেন...: He's right, of course. What entitles us, of this generation, to destroy artifacts of history that future generations may want to see? Isn't it in fact considered a crime against humanity to destroy cultural artifacts? Some people today may not like statues of dead Confederates and the like, but that doesn't give them the right to destroy them.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৩৬ PM
ndspinelli বলেছেন...: A more insidious reason for tearing down statues is the woke don't want their lemmings to see how far we really have come over the decades and centuries.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৩৬ PM
Joe Smith বলেছেন...: 'As a southerner for over 50 years, I can understand why blacks would feel alienated by statues honoring men who fought for their continued slavery.'

But they seem to have no trouble voting for the party of slavery and the KKK.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৪০ PM
mindnumbrobot বলেছেন...: Remember how appalled people were when the Taliban starting destroying statues in the late 90s. Those were the days.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৪৬ PM
M Jordan বলেছেন...: There are fine people on both sides of this issue, eh Robert? Woulda been nice had you supported Trump earlier.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৪৯ PM
Robin Goodfellow বলেছেন...: “Remember how appalled people were when the Taliban starting destroying statues in the late 90s. Those were the days.”

Good times.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৫৩ PM
Michael বলেছেন...: Etbass. Your sentiment is understood but I frankly think most small town blacks (and whites) could not name the man on the horse in court square.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৩:৫৭ PM
Iman বলেছেন...: “Remember how appalled people were when the Taliban starting destroying statues in the late 90s. Those were the days.”

Geeze… and to think the Biden administration is GIVING the Taliban somewhere between $47M and $80M every month.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:০৪ PM
loudogblog বলেছেন...: RFK Jr. is 100% right about this. We need to learn from history, not bury it because it causes some people discomfort.

And speaking about "discomfort," how much of this is because some people have been intentionally taught to feel extreme discomfort over things that they should have been able to view objectively? There has been an active push in education today to make people feel an irrational amount of discomfort about bad or negative things in history. It's OK to feel bad or indignant about bad things that happened, but it's gone too far when people can't function if they're exposed to it.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১০ PM
loudogblog বলেছেন...: etbass said...
"As a southerner for over 50 years, I can understand why blacks would feel alienated by statues honoring men who fought for their continued slavery."

The statues do not need to be "honoring men." If the proper plaque is attached, that explains who they were and the history of the situation, it could be a good learning experience.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১৪ PM
Jupiter বলেছেন...: "As a southerner for over 50 years, I can understand why blacks would feel alienated by statues honoring men who fought for their continued slavery."

Right. The same reason Frenchmen feel alienated when they see a statue of Julius Caesar. Or when they hear their own language, for that matter.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১৫ PM
The Godfather বলেছেন...: I think "Johnny Reb" statues honoring Confederate soldiers are fine; even though they fought on the wrong side, they fought bravely in defense of their homes and families. I don't favor honoring the political leaders of the Confederacy, who betrayed the country to which they owed loyalty. The military leaders of the Confederacy fall in between; if after the war they sought to restore the bonds of brotherhood between North and South, I would honor that; if they tried to continue the war "by other means", as Bedford Forrest did by founding the KKK, I oppose honoring them.

Trump said there were "good people on both sides" of the movement to tear down statues of people who were loyal Americans but who had owned slaves. Trump was more liberal-minded than I am on this issue.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১৮ PM
n.n বলেছেন...: The diverse "burdens" of the past, present, and progressive.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১৮ PM
The Godfather বলেছেন...: I think "Johnny Reb" statues honoring Confederate soldiers are fine; even though they fought on the wrong side, they fought bravely in defense of their homes and families. I don't favor honoring the political leaders of the Confederacy, who betrayed the country to which they owed loyalty. The military leaders of the Confederacy fall in between; if after the war they sought to restore the bonds of brotherhood between North and South, I would honor that; if they tried to continue the war "by other means", as Bedford Forrest did by founding the KKK, I oppose honoring them.

Trump said there were "good people on both sides" of the movement to tear down statues of people who were loyal Americans but who had owned slaves. Trump was more liberal-minded than I am on this issue.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:১৮ PM
Sebastian বলেছেন...: "If we want to find people who were completely virtuous on every issue throughout history, we would erase all of history." It's a nice thought, and quite logical, but 1. progs are fine with erasing history--blank slate, etc.; and 2. for progs, some lack of virtue is worse than others--bring down Lee, put up Floyd, etc. So kudos to Jr. for sorta fighting the culture war but he hasn't taken the full measure of his fellow progs yet.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:২৮ PM
Jake বলেছেন...: He’s certainly politicking.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৩৪ PM
Dogma and Pony Show বলেছেন...: "Today's people, our young and our future, deserve a say."

They don't deserve the FINAL say, which is what you're giving them by allowing historical artifacts to be destroyed.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৩৮ PM
Steve বলেছেন...: Roughly every 40 years, the government in charge of a monument should ask itself "Does this represent who we are today?" If the answer is no, auction it off. Private individuals, museums, historical societies, and the like can display it. Then put up a monument where the question is answered with a yes.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৫১ PM
Steve বলেছেন...: Roughly every 40 years, the government in charge of a monument should ask itself "Does this represent who we are today?" If the answer is no, auction it off. Private individuals, museums, historical societies, and the like can display it. Then put up a monument where the question is answered with a yes.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৫১ PM
Steve বলেছেন...: Roughly every 40 years, the government in charge of a monument should ask itself "Does this represent who we are today?" If the answer is no, auction it off. Private individuals, museums, historical societies, and the like can display it. Then put up a monument where the question is answered with a yes.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৫১ PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) বলেছেন...: Sometimes in small doses he sounds reasonable. On several issues he is reasonable. But anyone who publicly called for imprisoning Americans who refused the Covid jab is never going to get my vote. No matter how much they’ve retracted or mea culpted since they have shown their fascist fangs and I’m not inclined to second chances for people that untrustworthy.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৫২ PM
Static Ping বলেছেন...: There's nothing wrong with removing a statue or other monument, or at least moving it, because the community no longer wants it there.

However, if you are going to remove monuments, it should be a sober discussion. The statue removal was a freak out and panic attack led by fanatical idiots and the morons that service them desperately trying to win woke points.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৪:৫৬ PM
ga6 বলেছেন...: Now give us his opinion on frontal lobotomy.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:০৪ PM
Aggie বলেছেন...: As rhhardin says, the statues were originally erected as part of Reconciliation. Was Reconciliation a bad idea? I tend to think, 'not.' If someone wants to take a statue down, maybe they should have to explain why, after acknowledging the reasons why it was put there in the first place, and respecting its birthright before arguing its destruction. Instead, the howling mob came for the statues purportedly for 'who they were', or more accurately, because they fought for the south. And in at least one case, they tore down a statue of a benefactor to slaves, not a southern soldier. Any bronze will do, when you're in the popular mob-du-jour.

I didn't appreciate a mostly white, obese, belligerent mob re-appropriating a statue's purpose, and then deciding it had to go. I'm with Junior' on this one. These mobs have been rebuffed a couple of times for targeting founding fathers for other, made-up reasons of the moment. They will still come for them, you can bet.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:১১ PM
Marcus Bressler বলেছেন...: If I am still alive, I will lead the campaign to tear down any statues of Biden, erected after his death. And Obama, the traitor.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:১২ PM
Mutaman বলেছেন...: Keep taking those votes away from Mr Grab Em By The P----, Junior.

"Stay tuned next week for RFK Jr.’s appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience, where he will discuss how Hitler loved dogs and therefore deserves to be honored with monuments throughout the country. "; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২০ PM
Yancey Ward বলেছেন...: Poor Mutaman- totally deluded.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২৪ PM
Original Mike বলেছেন...: I just saw the biggest piece of trash campaign ad from Biden, fabricating all sorts of Trump statements, from drinking bleach to there'll be a bloodbath if he loses to he's going to terminate the Constitution to several others. God, Biden is a lying piece of crap.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২৪ PM
Hubert the Infant বলেছেন...: RFK Jr. is a reminder that, not that long ago, you could not tell how a politician stood on every single issue simply by knowing whether he or she was a D or an R. I agree with him on a number of issues and disagree with him on many others.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২৬ PM
gilbar বলেছেন...: as Al Smith would say, lets take a look.. At the Record

* democrats WERE the slave owners
* history NEEDS to be forgotten in order to be repeated
* democrats WANT to own slaves.. STILL
* THE ONLY WAY to Do THAT; is to ERASE the history of SLAVERY from this country

Now.. lets take a look.. At What is HAPPENING NOW
Still wondering WHY the democrats are erasing their history.. Try looking AGAIN; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২৭ PM
Narr বলেছেন...: "If I am still alive, I will lead the campaign to tear down any statues of Biden, erected after his death. And Obama, the traitor" says Marcus Bressler.

Probably better to abort the projects before they start.

If I was tyrant, I'd rule that no statue to a person can be erected until a minimum of 50 years past their death. (Except for statues of me, of course.)

Around here, that would have kept Forrest on ice until the mid-1920s, which were very different times than the 19-noughts.

"The Romance of Reconciliation" by Nina Silber describes the cultural context of reconciliation, which involved genderizing the two sections (and pretty much leaving the colored folks out of the picture).; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:২৯ PM
n.n বলেছেন...: Remember how appalled people were when the Taliban starting destroying statues in the late 90s.

The sequestration of Budda "burdens" were rewarded with billions in military hardware and a captive population.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৩০ PM
n.n বলেছেন...: Also, Sanger the abortionist, Cecile the cannibal, Levine's Dreams of Herr Mengele, Obama in [ethnic] Spring, SS BLM a la KKK, albinophobic banners and parades, and all affiliated structures that celebrate their progress.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৩৫ PM
Jersey Fled বলেছেন...: I remember that during the first Gulf War the Left got their panties in a bunch because Iranian artifacts were being destroyed by coalition bombing.

Strange what will bunch the Left’s panties.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৩৬ PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne বলেছেন...: Narr said...

"The Romance of Reconciliation" by Nina Silber

I think that's "The Romance of Reunion".; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৪৩ PM
Joe Bar বলেছেন...: I live near Richmond, VA, and this has been a large part of the local conversation over the past few years. I moved here. thirty years ago, coming from 10 years in Europe.

My parents came here from Japan in 1955. I have no real feelings about the US Civil War, except that which I learned in school, and as a USMA cadet (mostly tactics). Lee was brilliant early in the war.

Slavery is bad. Except, it was the prevalence in the civilized world for thousands of years. It is good that is not allowed here any more.

When we moved here, Monument Avenue in Richmond was the home of many huge statues. It was beautiful, stately, and there was an army of volunteers who kept it that way. Now they are gone, save for the lone statue of Arthur Ashe, who looks like he is swatting children with his racket. For a couple of years , the empty statue bases were defaced with graffiti, litter, and garbage, until the (bankrupt) city found the means to remove the concrete, and clean up the sites. No one knows what to do with these patches of grass, and, with no more volunteers, the city must expend funds to maintain them.

I should mention that Monument Avenue is a 4 lane divided avenue in the middle of the city, populated with old, expensive houses and trendy restaurants. Without the statues, it's not what it used to be.

The legacy residents, you know, those who consider themselves "Real Southerners," have mostly left the city. It is much more "Progressive" and "tolerant" now. A lot of that is because of the expansion of Virginia Commonwealth University to all parts of the city. VCU is not known for it's engineering or math degrees.

One of the monuments removed was a dimple large globe, dedicated to Matthew Fontaine Maury, considered by some "The Father of Modern Oceanography." He joined the Confederate Navy, but was more well known for his scientific contributions. He was ambivalent about slavery.

"On July 2, 2020, the mayor of Richmond, Levar Stoney ordered the removal of a statue of Maury erected in 1929 on Richmond's Monument Avenue. The mayor used his emergency powers to bypass a state-mandated review process, calling the statue a "severe, immediate and growing threat to public safety."

I agree with RFK Jr's assessment on this. Too bad more lefties didn't think the same way. Out here in the rural counties, there's a lot of resentment towards the city dwellers who let this happen.

One other issues, though, RFK has lost me.

With the selection of a gay, masked, insane Libertarian Party candidate, it appears to me that there are now 4 Communists running for president, opposing one centrist. How can we go wrong?; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৫২ PM
Mason G বলেছেন...: "Strange what will bunch the Left’s panties."

It's getting easier to figure out every day.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৫:৫৭ PM
William বলেছেন...: Stalin tore down a church that had been built by the Czar to honor the Russian victory over the French. You could see it from Stalin's Kremlin window, and the sight offended him. The original plan was to build some kind of skyscraper on the site and have it topped off with a huge statue of Lenin. WWII intervened, and Stalin never got to build it. It became a big hole and then later a big swimming pool. After the fall of the USSR, they rebuilt the church on the site.....I think it's fair to say that the people who want to tear down the Confederate statues have more in common with Stalin than with orthodox believers. Perhaps there should be more consensus about these statues before we tear them down.....I think the huge hole was a fine monument to Soviet rule, but I'm okay with the restoration of the church.....The Lenin Mausoleum should stay. It's a big part of Russian history, and it doesn't hurt to remind people of how stupid they are.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:০০ PM
Narr বলেছেন...: North is correct: Romance of Reunion, by Silber.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:০৪ PM
Mutaman বলেছেন...: Joe Bar said...

" Slavery is bad. "

What a brave statement. Who says we all can't get along?; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:০৮ PM
Narr বলেছেন...: I've taken my lumps in the statue and marker wars, and have no stomach for more.

Europe is chock full of statues to tyrants and bigots; I got my photo taken standing next to the statue of my great ancestor Charlemagne in Paris (the one in France). He led my Frank ancestors against my pagan Saxon ancestors, and great was the slaughter thereof.

So it goes.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:০৮ PM
effinayright বলেছেন...: I'm wondering how many "fine people on both sides" were pleased to see statues of Stalin, Lenin, Dzerzhinsky and other Russian tyrants come down when the USSR collapsed.

Ditto the televised toppling of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad.

I suppose a difference lies in a minority in the US wanting to erase Confederates who lived 150 years ago, as opposed to the great majorities in Iron Curtain countries (and Shias in Iraq) who despised dictators who oppressed them in their own recent history.

And just look what the Italians did to Mussolini and his mistress!; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৩২ PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...: RFK Jr. is saying all the things that need saying.

Trump is a goof.
Biden is a corrupt old man - who cannot speak unless he is given a script.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৩৫ PM
mikee বলেছেন...: Even a blind squirrel, as the saying goes....

RFK Jr. needs a visceral reaction to sooooooooooo many other things that this one nice felling of his is as meaningless as knowing that Jeffrey Dahmer had a beloved pet dog at age 7.

RFK Jr. remains meaningless in this election. He has yet to rise to Pat Paulsen levels of public approval.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৩৭ PM
Robert Cook বলেছেন...: ”But they seem to have no trouble voting for the party of slavery and the KKK.“

Those southern Democrats switched over to the Republican Party in the 60s/70s.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৪২ PM
Kevin বলেছেন...: Tear down statues?

If the Civil War began today, Ivy League students would be demanding an end to the invasion by the North and a two-state solution.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৪৩ PM
Laughing Fox বলেছেন...: A special select committee is not considering what statues Chicago should destroy. In the running are U.S.Grant (owned one slave, given him by his father-in-law, and sold by Grant), A. Lincoln (reviewed the murder convictions of a large number of Wisconsin native Americans who massacred a settler settlement, pardoned all whose convictions had questionable evidence, and ordered executed 37 (I think) who had firm evidence of murder), W. T. Sherman (grew up in the South, had a slave as a young man). And of course, C. Columbus (based on statements about him in an account written by a rival who wanted to displace him).
I'm not sure Chicago Blacks, or most Chicagoans of any kind, are interested in spending a lot of money to do this investigation and tear up the city's parks.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৬:৪৭ PM
narciso বলেছেন...: Grant who conquered the South ok; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:০৩ PM
narciso বলেছেন...: They keep saying that but its not really true see hollings whi flews the stars and bars first over columbia eastland byrd the kleagle or is it cyclops; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:০৫ PM
Ampersand বলেছেন...: Shrewd careerist academics know they will never be held to account for seeing the past through a 2024 Overton Window.

Human nature doesn't change. Nineteenth Century humanity was just as smart and just as evil as 21st Century humanity. You don't have to succumb to relativism to agree with me.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:১৩ PM
Mary Beth বলেছেন...: I'm wondering how many "fine people on both sides" were pleased to see statues of Stalin, Lenin, Dzerzhinsky and other Russian tyrants come down when the USSR collapsed.

This only works as a parallel if the Civil War statues were put up between the time of the South seceding and the end of the war, and then the debate on whether to remove them or not happened right after the war.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:১৯ PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...: Robert Byrd was a democrat. Grand KKKer. Supported by modern day democrats from all sorts of states.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:২৩ PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...: It's the modern Soviet Left who demand we erase history. They are so stupid - they even want to erase Abraham Lincoln.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:২৪ PM
Goldenpause বলেছেন...: He will recant or “clarify” his statement after he is sandblasted by the left.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:৪৩ PM
Rocco বলেছেন...: Steve said...
"Roughly every 40 years, the government in charge of a monument should ask itself 'Does this represent who we are today?'"

"I agree."
- Every owner of a sports team that plays in a publicly financed stadium.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:৪৪ PM
Howard বলেছেন...: Confederate Statues erected during peak Jim Crow Lynch Mob judge jury and executioner era are Democrats we love love love 😍; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:৪৯ PM
n.n বলেছেন...: I'm wondering how many "fine people on both sides" were pleased to see statues of Stalin, Lenin, Dzerzhinsky and other Russian tyrants come down when the USSR collapsed.

Also, abortion chambers, Mengele clinics, DEI offices, progressive cults, and other templates erected to bray left-wing ideology.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:৪৯ PM
Michael বলেছেন...: Robert Cook Those southern Democrats switched over to the Republican Party in the 60s/70s.” So when they “switched” there were none left? LOL.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৭:৫৩ PM
Rocco বলেছেন...: Laughing Fox said...
"A special select committee is not considering what statues Chicago should destroy. In the running are U.S.Grant (owned one slave, given him by his father-in-law, and freed by Grant)..."

FIFY: https://www.nps.gov/people/william-jones.htm#:~:text=William%20Jones%20was%20an%20enslaved,legally%20freeing%20Jones%20from%20slavery; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৮:০৯ PM
Michael Fitzgerald বলেছেন...: Name one. The solid south was solidly democrat party from after reconstruction until 2010 or 2012 when Alabama became the first Southern state to elect a republican majority congress since 1868. There was no "The Parties Switched!!!".; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৮:৩৩ PM
Narr বলেছেন...: The ignorant and corrupt male Southerners that used to dominate the D Party have been replaced by a more diverse set of corrupt ignoramuses.

There were R's in the South before the 1960s of course, but they tended to be either descendants of the R's of the 1860s (like Lamar Alexander's East Tennessee family, "who voted like they shot") or, especially after WWII, transplants from the North or Europe who had nothing invested in the Lost Cause Mythologies that kept the region backward.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৮:৩৫ PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne বলেছেন...: Laughing Fox said...

W. T. Sherman (grew up in the South, had a slave as a young man).

No. Sherman grew up in Ohio and had no slaves. His only involvement with the South prior to the war was his serving as the superintendent of the Louisiana State Military Academy from 1859 to 1861.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৮:৪০ PM
effinayright বলেছেন...: Mary Beth said...
I'm wondering how many "fine people on both sides" were pleased to see statues of Stalin, Lenin, Dzerzhinsky and other Russian tyrants come down when the USSR collapsed.

"This only works as a parallel if the Civil War statues were put up between the time of the South seceding and the end of the war, and then the debate on whether to remove them or not happened right after the war."
*********

Well, I was trying to understand why we in the US were happy to see people in other countries subjected to tyranny toppling their tyrannical rulers' statues, while a minority here wants to bring down statues of people they *didn't* personally suffer under, and to erase their history.

The fall of the USSR and lifting of the Iron Curtain were surprisingly peaceful events, but the people living under Russian domination had good reason to hate their former masters.

Ditto the Shiite Iraqis when Sunni Saddam was defeated.

But Americans today seeking to expunge the memory of personages living 150 years ago--- simply because they failed to adhere to today's standards---strikes me just another example of Virtue Signalling:

"I hate Robert E. Lee, and if you don't, you're a bigot."

SNORT; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৮:৫৮ PM
Marcus Bressler বলেছেন...: Cookie swallows the KoolAid about the great switch. Sir, are you really that stupid? It has been disproven more times than the Bleach injection bullshit.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:১৪ PM
Laughing Fox বলেছেন...: Thanks, Rocco, for more information about U.S. Grant's slave, William Jones. I just want to add that at his farm "Hardscrabble" Grant himself was the main farm worker and he worked side by side with Jones, and that Grant's time in St. Louis "working in real estate" that followed was just about the period of his greatest lack of success and poverty.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:১৬ PM
Josephbleau বলেছেন...: In 1938 FDR had a reunion encampment at Gettysburg for Union and Confederate veterans and he gave a heartwarming speech. So was FDR racist for praising Confederate veterans?

It is just the modern sanctimonious fetish to think that everyone in the past needs to be judged by your personal modern affluent standards.

Of Confederates, the one I like least is Jefferson Davis, The Southerners liked to refer to slavery as "the labor system of the South." The radical Democrats definitely succeeded from the Union due to slavery, but many of the common southerners who had no slaves fought because their homes were being invaded.

The South wanted Slavery to insure the availability of labor in distant rural locations, so, like China, they prevented the laborers from moving to the city. They could have set them free and paid them a low wage, but then they might have moved away from Bumfuk Mississippi.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:৩১ PM
Josephbleau বলেছেন...: " Wisconsin native Americans who massacred a settler settlement"

It was the Santee Sioux, of Minnesota who did some murder and rape in the Little Crow War. Lincoln wanted to let them all go, but the Governor wrote him that the Minnesotans would execute them if he did not.

From WIKI
"Historian Gary Clayton Anderson states that nearly all of the young girls taken captive and most of the middle-aged women were forced into relationships which Dakota men perceived as "marriage". He lists "the chance to obtain a wife" as one of the many different motives young Dakota men had for participating in the early days of the conflict, along with revenge, plunder, and the chance to gain honors in warfare. There was at least one widely reported case of rape on the first evening of the conflict, August 18, 1862."; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:৪২ PM
RCOCEAN II বলেছেন...: The confederacy had an extensive draft starting in 1862, and by the end of the war drafting 50 year old men and 17 y/o boys for the home guard. A lot of Confederates had no choice.

Of course, if you were a young man in small town in the South in 1861, all you heard was that slavery was good and the North was bad. And when the newspapers and the town elders told you to fight, you went and fought. Some, mostly in appalachia were unionist and some others deserted (if they had the chance).

In any case, seccession was thought to a constitutional right by Southerners and treason by the North. The actual constitution is silent on the matter. Hence, the civil war. R.E. lee was great American and a great General. His only error is his side lost.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:৪৮ PM
RCOCEAN II বলেছেন...: The civil war was a rich mans war, and a poor man's fight. Its too bad instead of shooting each other, the boys in blue and grey didnt go home and shoot their politicians.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ৯:৪৯ PM
wildswan বলেছেন...: In the case where the statue of a Confederate soldier was put on the walkway to the entrance of the courthouse that statue should be moved. In that location the expressed and intended symbolism was that the former slaves would get no justice in the courthouse.

But the other Confederate statues are different. After the Civil War Lee, Hampden and others put all their prestige behind the policy that the Southern soldiers should go home and be good citizens? Over time the terrible bitterness of that war has slowly disappeared but while it slowly lapsed we weren't murdering each other. That's don to Lee, Hampden and others. Compare that with the situation over in Gaza. Over there after they lost in 1948 and after every war thereafter, the leaders told their people to continue to kill as many Israelis as possible in any way possible, women and children preferred targets. You can see the horrible bloodshed and bitterness caused by that decision. So can you see why the American people might agree to put up statues of Lee and Hampden and others. A few statues seem worth it for a peace.

PS There's statues all over the place of people, the Know Nothings and such, who hated Catholics and wouldn't let us vote before the Civil War. But I don't wear myself out on side issues.; ২৮/৫/২৪, ১১:২২ PM
Drago বলেছেন...: Unreconstructed stalinst Robert Cook: "Those southern Democrats switched over to the Republican Party in the 60s/70s."

LOL

Howitzer Howard level ignorance!

And debunked thoroughly everytime Cookie or some other moron lefty/LLR-lefty rauses this hoax talking point.

Quick "checks" as easy debunks:
-How many dixiecrats were there and how many switched to the republican party? (Spoiler: over 200 dixiecrats with only...2...yes, 2, switching to the republican party)

- In what years did Southern state legislatures switch to republican control? (Spoiler: 30 to 40 years later....which coincides and correlates perfectly with the southern racists dying off at the same time businesses relocated and expanded in the more business friendly south bringing more republicans to town and facilitating the eventual electoral transformation)

Thanks for playing marxist cookie! You and pro-Hamas Howitzer Howard really ought to grab a soy beer some time.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৩:১৪ AM
Drago বলেছেন...: Of course, these same "tear down the Confederate statues" folks are EXACTLY the same people tearing down Founding Fathers statues and Teddy Roosevelt statues and Francis Scott Key statues etc, etc, etc.

Which really gives the game away when one recalls what woke lefty AI is doing to our history. Its all about our own lefty Khmer Rouge completely rewriting all of history and burning all of our society down and building another marxist "paradise" on top of the ashes.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৩:২০ AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) বলেছেন...: Those southern Democrats switched over to the Republican Party in the 60s/70s.

“Those southern Democrats”? Which ones? Name ten. Carter was a southern Democrat. Grand Kleagle proud KKK member Bob Byrd was a southern Democrat well into this century who used the N word live on Fox in an interview with Tony Snow. Clinton was a southern Democrat whose mentor was a segregationist southern Democrat. I think your mythology has reached its expiration date. The KKK was the armed wing of the Democrat Party. Now you fascists are more diverse with Antifa and BLM sharing the terrorizing duties for the Left with your new street troops Ivy League Hamas.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৪:৪৭ AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) বলেছেন...: I could list more quotes from Joe Biden praising segregationists he was “good friends” with than the number of switchers Cook could name. I’ll take that challenge any time.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৪:৫৭ AM
iowan2 বলেছেন...: The confederate statues were part of reconciliation.

So much of the political friction today is a monumental ignorance of history.

Yes the Civil War ended by a negotiated settlement.

The essence of the Settlement was the South would not be prosecuted anymore. There was a guarantee that the South could honor their heros, It was encouraged. Reconciliation, not forced subservience, was the goal.
When leftist demand memorials be removed, they are violating the Civil War cease fire, and agreed to reconciliation.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৬:১৭ AM
Narayanan বলেছেন...: can pre-reconciliation Confederacy = Hamas for comparison?; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৭:০৯ AM
Dude1394 বলেছেন...: So not all democrats are taliban. Just most of them.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৭:৪১ AM
Ralph L বলেছেন...: Hampden and others

Who he? The only Hampden in the South I know of is Hampden-Sydney College, named after two 17th cent. English martyrs.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৭:৪৯ AM
Jersey Fled বলেছেন...: “Those southern Democrats switched over to the Republican Party in the 60s/70s.”

Care to name a few Cookie?

I’ll start.

Albert Gore Sr. Senator from Tennessee. Voted against the Civil Rights Bill of 1964.

Opps. Didn’t switch parties. Remained a.Democrat for the rest of his life.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৮:২৩ AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) বলেছেন...: (Lovingly applied) Correction: Albert Gore Sr. set the record for longest filibuster against the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, before voting against it with mostly all Democrats voting no. It would not have passed without overwhelming Republican support.

Fun fact: the myth of The Big Switch was invented in part to cover up this inconvenient fact.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৮:২৯ AM
Narr বলেছেন...: I overstated that "there were Republicans in the South in 1860" but of course they weren't R's but the remnants of the Whigs and non-Democrats and anti-secessionists: largely in north Alabama and Georgia, east Tennessee, and west Virginia.

They became R's soon after the ACWABAWS.

I think "Hampden" is meant to be Wade Hampton.; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৮:৩৫ AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) বলেছেন...: mostly all Democrats voting no

I just looked up the roll call: 44 D voted yea, and 21 no. So "most" Democrats voted against CRA. 27 R voted for only 6 against. [mistake corrected]; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৮:৩৬ AM
Jersey Fled বলেছেন...: Ok Cookie. I’ll do you homework for you.

There were 19 Democrat Senators who voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Exactly one switched to the Republican Party- Strom Thurman.

Robert Byrd became an Independent but retained his seniority in the Democrat Party

The remaining 17 stayed in the Democrat Party. Some notables:

John Sparkman D-Al
James Fulbright D-AR
John McClelland D-A
George Smathers D-DL
Richard Russell D-GA
Herman Talmadge D-GA
John Eastman D-MS
Albert Gore D-TN; ২৯/৫/২৪, ৯:৫০ AM