Said Joe Rogan, an hour into his 3-hour podcast with Duncan Trussell.
On 16 August 1951, postman Leon Armunier was doing his rounds in the southern French town of Pont-Saint-Esprit when he was suddenly overwhelmed by nausea and wild hallucinations.
"It was terrible. I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire and the serpents coiling around my arms," he remembers.... He was put in a straitjacket but he shared a room with three teenagers who had been chained to their beds to keep them under control....
Doctors at the time concluded that bread at one of the town's bakeries had become contaminated by ergot, a poisonous fungus that occurs naturally on rye.
That view remained largely unchallenged until 2009, when an American investigative journalist, Hank Albarelli, revealed a CIA document labelled: "Re: Pont-Saint-Esprit and F.Olson Files. SO Span/France Operation file, inclusive Olson. Intel files. Hand carry to Belin - tell him to see to it that these are buried."
F. Olson is Frank Olson, a CIA scientist who, at the time of the Pont St Esprit incident, led research for the agency into the drug LSD....
It is well known that biological warfare scientists around the world, including some in Britain, were experimenting with LSD in the early 1950s - a time of conflict in Korea and an escalation of Cold War tensions.
Albarelli says he has found a top secret report issued in 1949 by the research director of the Edgewood Arsenal, where many US government LSD experiments were carried out, which states that the army should do everything possible to launch "field experiments" using the drug.
Oh! I wish my parents were still alive so I could ask them about Edgewood Arsenal. I've only just recently seen that Edgewood Arsenal was the site of US government LSD experiments. My father was drafted into the Army just after the end of WWII and he — who, by the way, had a degree in chemical engineering — was stationed at Edgewood Arsenal. That's where he met my mother, who was one of the first WACs. My mother spoke of working with men who were in terrible shape suffering from "battle fatigue."
Now, I have to wonder whether those men were part of the Edgewood Arsenal human experiments. If they were they volunteered.
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৫৯টি মন্তব্য:
Isn't that the irony? You have to commit violence to prevent violence? Kill democracy to save democracy?
I'm sure everyone has a hill they die on in this regard - you have to do X to prevent X.
Filed under forced/coerced vaccinations Joe Rogan likes.
Fight fire with fire.
I foresee the establishment of the Rogan Brigade, something like the Lincoln Brigade of the mid-1930s. Those young and thoughtless men thought they were the vanguard of universal peace and social justice. We’ll turn back Hitler and Mussolini with the help of Stalin and the Spanish republicans. A few of them were surprised and ashamed when their social hero assisted Hitler’s rape of Poland, but many weren’t, folks like Woody Guthrie, for example. Do you think the Rogan Brigade will be surprised by the result of their ideals in action as the Lincoln brigades were of their?
Magic mushrooms are awesome. They have helped with my brother's PTS bigly. At the age of 75, it was a catalyst that helped him quit cannabis alcohol and tobacco and back into physical fitness, cold showers, writing and meditation.
I see stlcdr beat me to it. Rogan's statement is no less incongruent than 'if you want peace, prepare for war.' I didn't listen to the clip so I'm also left wondering if Rogan's tone might indicate he knows he's proposing an absurd solution to a problem that seems to have few reasonable ones.
I think it's hard for most people to wrap their heads around the conditions under which the relatively modern impulse to avoid violence is turned off. I can fairly easily imagine reasons for why somebody would steal something. That seems a logical path, which is probably why we leap to the idea that theft derives from poverty. I've often felt the physical desire to commit some level of violent act but have thankfully only rarely succumbed to.
"you have to do X to prevent X"
Affirmative action - racial discrimination to prevent racial discrimination.
Force - Democrat Party's stock-in-trade.
You’ll need lots of guns, tanks, rockets, and bombs to force the mushrooms down the throats of the unwilling. That’s a given. But since these mushrooms are supposed to cure the inclination to violence, the Rogan Brigades will need to be mushroom-free while compelling everyone else to swallow the holy fungi. Do you suppose they’ll be willing to dose themselves once they are masters of an unresisting world? Yes? If no, who will compel them?
FYI, Rogan was joking about forced mushroom consumption. They are two comics, not uptight anal retentive supercilious ninnies afraid of taking action in the wilderness.
Lithium in Water Leads to Lower Suicide Rates https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200727145824.htm
There’s a disturbing lack of benevolence in druggies dreaming of drugging everyone…
…and the way you stop terrorism is to stop incentivizing terrorism.
There’s been no war here and no terraforming event. The environment is stable. It’s the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work, they stopped breeding, talking, eating.
From the movie "Serenity." Of course that wasn't the worst of it.
Chris writes, "Rogan's statement is no less incongruent than 'if you want peace, prepare for war.'"
Absurd. The Latin maxim was quite well demonstrated when Britain and France, the formerly dominant military powers in Europe cooperated with Hitler in the dissolution of Czechoslovakia. Does the piece of paper ring any bells, or is it to early in the morning? Must be if you can't tell the difference between si vis pacem para bellum and si vis pacem inferre bellum.
My understanding is that the fear of "brainwashing" started with the Korean War. Captive Americans appeared in films saying the American regime had always been wrong, or had failed to live up to its promises. "I now see how great the North Korean regime is," kind of thing. Kind of like the woke.
The public and Hollywood thought this might have been done with electro-shock or chemicals. The CIA for reasons of its own wanted to torture people and see what was possible. Insofar as they worked on people in mental institutions, which still existed, consent was often doubtful. Then hippies came to believe that the more drugs people took, the more peaceful if not loving the world would be. The result is a nightmare for the middle class, in some ways a dream come true for the Swamp.
I'm just here to say I really like the tag, "things that won't work" and I believe you could apply it to so many more posts in this crazy world.
Mike writes, "I'm just here to say I really like the tag..."
Alvin Bragg's theory of due process, for example?
Our reptilian brains are as unavoidable as gravity. You get angry at some, attracted to others and you either express those feelings and put your life in the dumpster or you repress those feelings and put your life in the dumpster. The human race was not designed to achieve much in the way of lasting happiness or serenity. Only people on mushrooms think such a thing is possible.
Unless you take [the COVID vax], we gotta get [the COVID vax] legal for the entire country, the whole country and just force them down. Everybody's throat, force people to do [the COVID vax] do it for everyone else.
That tag is applied rather sparingly, this year mostly for stories related to TikTok's forced sale, and in some cases I am stumped as to what "won't work" when breezing through the archives. But how in the hell did I miss that cool dress on January 18? And I don't see why more of that wouldn't work, given the subtlety of the feminine versions juxtapositioned against the explicit and rather gross male ones (why are they all "ideal" 2% body fat graphics while the female designs suggestively accent the underlying reality?).
Yes, Quaestor. Good example.
There was a time when America could have carried out an ambitious peace initiative like Joe Rogan's force-feeding plan, but unfortunately, we're no longer the great power we once were when it comes to hallucinogenic fungus.
For one thing, a large part of America's psilocybin is now produced offshore. That's right. We're dependent on the Chinese. Not only that, our Strategic Mushroom Reserve has been allowed to fall to an all-time low. According to my sources, the situation is so bad, we'd be lucky if we had enough to mellow out the war-like tribes of western Oregon, let alone the rest of humanity.
Thanks, Biden.
I went and listened to that part of the podcast, and it is really hard to tell how much of the suggestion is serious versus comedic. The tone does not imply a joke, but they then go on to talk about whether AI will determine that mushrooms are beneficial to humanity and will dictate their consumption, and Rogan says that would be awful but then goes into a theory that exposure to hallucinogenic chemicals, brought about by the receding of the jungle in to grasslands back in the dawn of humanity might have been the cause for human brain growth and complexity so maybe it is a good thing.
A counterpoint to mushrooms calming the populace- A few weeks ago Rogan had on some mushroom guy. He wasn’t the best communicator and he said blah blah blah and Turkey Tail about twenty times in three minutes. That made me want to commit violence.
"and the way you stop terrorism is to stop incentivizing terrorism."
Or maybe stop using terrorist organizations as pretext manufacturing concerns. Why are we in Syria again? How is it different from why Russia is in Ukraine? Oh yeah, we are fighting against the same "terrorists" that according to Wikileaks, we organized and funded there, and fighting these terrorists not on behalf of the sovereign govt of Syria, which was also fighting terrorism there, but to try to divide Syria or simply conquer it, just like Russia is doing in Ukraine. Now we sit on Syria's oil. That was sure convenient, wasn't it. Who set up al Qaeda? We did, to fight against Russia in Afghanistan, and then, lo and behold, they provided us with the pretext for twenty years of wars
Bob Boyd said...
There was a time when America could have carried out an ambitious peace initiative like Joe Rogan's force-feeding plan, but unfortunately, we're no longer the great power we once were when it comes to hallucinogenic fungus.
For one thing, a large part of America's psilocybin is now produced offshore. That's right. We're dependent on the Chinese. Not only that, our Strategic Mushroom Reserve has been allowed to fall to an all-time low. According to my sources, the situation is so bad, we'd be lucky if we had enough to mellow out the war-like tribes of western Oregon, let alone the rest of humanity.
Thanks, Biden.
5/30/24, 7:32 AM
LOL
America cannot do evil to mankind because China controls the mushrooms? Who demagnetized your moral compass, Bob Boyd?
I would be in favor of a microdose of LSD in the water supply.
The whole episode is an enormous “ who can say the most outrageous thing” contest between the two comedians. They are dressed up like “ servants of A.I.” in back masks and white tights with reflective sunglasses and just pop insanity back and forth.
Rogan is an advocate for mushrooms and other psychoactive drugs to help people get a fixation on themselves to be more introspective and empathetic - as well as to treat certain psychosis behaviors, like PTSD or addiction withdrawal.
Not surprising the subject came up. More surprising it wasn’t a rant about why big Pharma wouid NEVER allow a treatment you can pick out of a cow pasture for free because it WORKS.
@Quaestor - I fully endorse the idea that the best way to prevent organized violence is to prepare a defense for it. My intent was to indicate that at a superficial level the two halves of the famous statement appear to be at odds with one another in the same way the idea of using force to end violent acts appears to be a non sequitur but is actually a requirement.
Also, eat a Snickers.
Gorge shooting suspect was hallucinating from mushrooms, court documents say
The 26-year-old suspected of killing two women and injuring three others on Saturday at the Gorge Amphitheatre told investigators he was experiencing hallucinations after taking psychedelic mushrooms, according to probable cause documents filed Wednesday in Grant County Superior Court.
The suspect, an active duty member of the U.S. Army at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, allegedly shot and killed two women, seriously injured his girlfriend and another festivalgoer, and also caused minor injuries to an employee. A detective eventually shot him in a field next to the campground and police arrested him.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/gorge-shooting-suspect-was-hallucinating-from-mushrooms-court-documents-say/
The human race was not designed to achieve much in the way of lasting happiness or serenity.
Quite the secular humanist take there. Conversely, I can testify that "the peace that passes understanding" is not only possible, it's dead simple and "designed" to be attainable. Joyfulness is the exact state of being in which we are intended to dwell. That's why our brains, unlike reptiles, are capable of creativity and higher order problem solving.
using force to end violent acts appears to be a non sequitur but is actually a requirement
This was the premise of Kung Fu and one of the reasons I enjoyed watching it as a child. You just knew someone was going to push Chang around a little too much at some point in the episode, and what happened next wouldn't be his fault. But then he'd have to move on to the next town...
Life is cyclical if not cynical.
Psychedelic do seem to help with things like PTSD (see Howard above) by loosening the connections between present reality and old memories and habits, so people can get past what is hurting them. Alas, that often goes with losing touch with reality period, for a time or in "flashbacks".
Not the same shrooms...
https://www.iflscience.com/this-mindaltering-drug-likely-fueled-the-psychotically-fierce-berserker-warriors-53733
“My father had made some coffee in his office, and my mother went into the office attracted by the smell of coffee. They were married two weeks later.”
The obvious question, were your parents volunteers for the army LSD study?
Ima take a gummy and watch the clip, maybe.
Obviously if "taking mushrooms" was a cure for criminal activity we could spike everyone's food in prison. But that's obviously not true.
I hate to keep harping on this but Netenyahu is war criminal who's dropping bombs (by mistake LOL) on Gaza and killing women and children. Biden is supplying Netenyahu the bombs and he's also giving Zelensky 60 billion in weapons to keep fighting and killing people in Ukraine. Zelensky's secret police are kidnapping Ukrainian men and sendig them to the front to be killed.
Maybe we need to give mushrooms to Biden, zelensky, and Netenyahu. They're killing a lot more people than some rando crook on the street. Biden is also against the death penalty (LOL). The libtard mentality never ceases to amaze me. Tears and shrieks over putting some serial killer to death, cheers and applause for blowing up some 6 year brown kid with a 1000 lbs bomb because "thats war baby".
Who demagnetized your moral compass, Bob Boyd?
I'm guided by voices.
All's fair in lust and abortion. Eggcelsior!
Regarding "Pont-Saint-Esprit poisoning: Did the CIA spread LSD?", I think at this point in our society's timeline, a reasonable curve-fit through the known data points of CIA malfeasance would probably reveal that this one lies close to the curve, if not on it.
I think that taking mushrooms explains why Scott Adams seems to genuinely believe that we live in a simulation. He thinks that those of us who view it as ersatz creationism are simply too hidebound in our thinking to *get it*. But when you ask him if it's "turtles all the way down," you know, the beings who wrote the simulation also live in a simulation written by beings another step removed, and so on, he gets touchy.
As a veteran of perhaps 100s of psychedelic experiences (acid, mescaline, peyote, mushrooms) in the ‘60s and early ‘70s with dozens of different people, I can state with some authority that utopia would not result from force-feeding the populace any of those.
Not everyone can be entertaining as they gobble their own brain cells.
Duncan Trussell must have started with a very high IQ. I'm always amused by him.
Most stoners are dull.
I hate to keep harping on this
That's an obvious lie. If you hated it you would stop doing it. And no one here buys your crappy antisemitic propaganda.
"...using force to end violent acts appears to be a non sequitur but is actually a requirement."
There's a blending of oil and water going on in this conversation. Countering current violence involves entirely different moral choices than preventing future violence. Take for example the case of a sniper in a defensible position, Charles Whitman, the infamous maniac in the UT Austin clock tower. Police and civilian volunteers dealt with him as humanely as possible given the situation. However, suppose there was an anesthesia gas such as imagined by H. G. Wells in his Things to Come screenplay. (Prima facie magical thinking on Wells's part, but let that go for now.) Instead of bullets, the cops just spray Whitman with "peace gas" and all is well. But Charles Whitman killed and wounded several people before the police could even respond with their peace gas grenades. What about them? Clearly, if there's a chemical solution to violence, peace gas is inadequate.
There was a Star Trek episode that has Kirk bifurcated by a transporter malfunction into Nice James and Nasty Jim, a take on the classic Robert Louis Stevenson tale but more psychologically profound. Stevenson's Jekyll isn't really bifurcated. The outwardly respectable scientist is secretly delighted with the freedom to enjoy the seamier side of his character granted by his chemical invention. In the ST-TOS episode, however, Nice James discovers he cannot function as master and commander of the Enterprise without Nasty Jim, illustrating the idea that the desire to lead and command is inextricably entangled with the inclination to dominate and punish. But let that go as well. Assume for the argument that there is a drug that eliminates the capability of violence without suppressing ambition, curiosity, industriousness, and the ability to weigh moral choices. (A neat trick that would be -- moral reasoning without the facility of empathy, but leave that aside.) Assume the peace drug exists. Is it morally permissible to compel anyone to take it? Do we have the right to think wrongly? A totalitarian would answer no.
"I was thinking about hippies, but my screen filled up with items about the CIA."
Of course it was the CIA.
What is in your water now that you don't know about?
What about your food supply?
How did the country get enormously fat over the past 50 years?
How is my on-point comment about what is in our food and water deleted?
It ties back to the CIA and LSD.
'I think that taking mushrooms explains why Scott Adams seems to genuinely believe that we live in a simulation.'
Last time I checked, Adams is a weed guy.
I've never heard him speak of taking mushrooms himself if this is your supposition...
It's not like people wouldn't have a choice. If they don't want mushrooms jammed down their throats by government goons, they can just eat them. Nobody's saying you can't just eat them...while we watch...to make sure.
I clicked on the podcast link, which I thought would take me to JRE, but it was Trussell's site and I didn't stick around.
Also, I have no idea who Duncan Trussell is.
"I clicked on the podcast link, which I thought would take me to JRE, but it was Trussell's site and I didn't stick around."
No. That's not "Trussell's site." Trussell's name is prominent because it's the name of that particular JRE episode. JRE is posted at many places, and I picked that because I was quoting from the transcript.
"Also, I have no idea who Duncan Trussell is."
Then you aren't much of a fan of Joe Rogan. Trussell is his favorite guest.
Trussell also has a fantastic TV series (animated) called "Midnight Gospel."
No, I'm not much of Rogan fan, though I end up at his place fairly often because of a guest . . . and almost always by way of Youtube which probably explains why I didn't recognize the site as Rogan's.
I'll take a look at Midnight Gospel.
Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Taking a comedians obvious hyperbole literally is one click away from citing an Onion article as if it were real.
Here's another example. A comedian says "we should kill everyone in the HR department." That does NOT mean the comedian wants to literally murder HR personnel. But, it could mean that the comedian has a very low opinion of the HR department and experiences frequent frustration. Often times this type of hyperbole is accompanied by an amusing anecdote or two. Some of those anecdotes might also include hyperbole!🤦♂️ Comedy can be very confusing because everyone is always trying to trick you by saying things they don't actually believe. What if they exaggerate? How could anyone even tell? The worst "comedians" engage in deadpan irony so you don't even know if they are joking. This kind of nonsense is "funny" to them.
TL;DR Okay, Boomer.
@Narr
I second the midnight gospel recommendation, but be prepared. That last episode is a serious tear-jerker and not at all in a cheap way. I think i’m similarly not a fan particularly of joe rogan but it’s a good show overall and i’ll listen if it’s an interesting guest.
Thanks for the pointers and tips about Midnight Gospel. I found a lot of pieces on Youtube, and viewed a bit of Rogan-Trussell banter.
I'm not a fan of the visual style of the show, and when people start talking enthusiastically about Zen masters, Alastair Crowley, and Magick I go elsewhere.
Arguments against the CIA dosing the bread:
1. Uniform dosing of bakery bread seems very difficult after baking. Especially french non pre-sliced bread. Better to inject subjects with an umbrella.
2. The symptoms of nausea and shrinking are not what I saw described in the frat house. LSD is electric; tracers, infinite network visual patterns, walls breathing, a "speed" effect, you are God.
3. The CIA does things with scientists. How did they get any data out of this. The innocent subjects would not have been chained to cots, they would have been subjected to analysis. There would have been a control group who where not tripping chained to cots too.
4. The CIA would be interested in subject/normal interactions and would have wanted the treatment class to wander around normal people and see what happened. So they would not have chained them up.
5. High risk and no data, not a CIA project.
There is a refusal to admit to the human capacity for evil. If they just understood, they wouldn't do things like that. I can tell you that the population of wife beaters and child molesters is filled with the ranks of people who took a lot of hallucinogens. Think about the Manson family.
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