And there's this from John Fea, a history professor at Messiah University, an evangelical school in Pennsylvania: "Trump has split the atom between character and policy. He did it because he’s really the first one to listen to their grievances and take them seriously. Does he really care about evangelicals? I don’t know. But he’s built a message to appeal directly to them."
April 1, 2024
"He’s definitely been chosen by God. He’s still surviving even though all these people are coming after him, and I don’t know how else to explain that other than divine intervention."
Said Marie Zere, "a commercial real estate broker from Long Island who attended the Conservative Political Action Conference in February," quoted in "The Church of Trump: How He’s Infusing Christianity Into His Movement/Ending many of his rallies with a churchlike ritual and casting his prosecutions as persecution, the former president is demanding — and receiving — new levels of devotion from Republicans" (NYT).
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61 comments:
I think people see plain as day what the corrupt Modern Left do - and conclude it is pure evil.
(rightly so)
so this is the flip side to that.
Religious people seem to have concluded that God is not going to give them a moral paragon to vote for. So they have to vote for the one who will do less harm.
I don't know if God chose Trump, but it is very true that God often picks very flawed people to serve him and spread a message.
Examples:
Paul of Tarsus
Moses
Matthew the Tax Collector
Mary Magdalene
King David
It's funny that it baffles atheists and liberals as to WHY the majority of American Christians support Trump. It's ridiculous when those same people pass judgement and lecture Christians about supporting Trump.
To those people, as a Christian, a sinner, smoker, and heavy beer drinker... I say, "Go Fuck Yourselves".
I think God will forgive me for that.
"Trump has split the atom between character and policy."
What does this mean? that Trump has released large amounts of energy in the middle ground between character and policy? That makes no sense to me. Character and policy are different abstract ideas, you can't calculate a "distance measure" between them. Someone has seen Oppenheimer too many times.
Just say that Trump's Character and his Policy positions both appeal to a certain demographic?
Trump's greatest contribution to the political landscape has been to give the Deplorables an actual choice. The Republican party has been a parade of failure and running the train off the cliff a little slower than democrats. The GOPe has just been controlled opposition and mediocrity.
Trump removed that mask and showed what a Republican President can actually do if they tried.
When he tried he was stabbed in the back over and over and over by traitorous shitheads like Pence, Romney, and Bolton. Paul Ryan as leader of the house absolutely betrayed the republican voters of this country and it was obvious to everyone what the DC republicans actually were at that point.
Evangelicals, and now Jews, realize Trump doesn't hate them. Which is better than nothing.
Blogger Joe Biden, America's Putin said...
I think people see plain as day what the corrupt Modern Left do - and conclude it is pure evil.
Trump's persecutions and prosecutions my be unique because he is a treat to our corrupt establishment...but I also think people are recognizing, "HOLY SHIT. THESE ASSHOLES COULD DO THIS TO ME TOO...OR MY FAMILY."
And why wouldn't they? They already have. Look at all the J6 political prisoners. Or the guys the FBI set up in that bullshit Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot. Luckily the jury side with the defendants. But that was a Michigan jury.
I'm sure if it was a jury from NYC, DC, or Madison, WI those dudes would be wrongfully imprisoned.
If there's one single thing that Trump has indisputably, it's a Sinner's credentials.
I'm not in a cult. You're in a cult.
Am I in a cult?
I think Trump is more like Cyrus, ruler of the Medes and Persians:
Isa 44:28 - “It is I who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd!
And he will perform all My desire.'
And he declares of Jerusalem, ‘She will be built,'
And of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be laid.'”
Isa 45:1 - Thus says the LORD to Cyrus His anointed,
Whom I have taken by the right hand,
To subdue nations before him
And to loose the loins of kings;
To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut...
Anyone spot 46 in church yesterday?
I often argue that the president is not and should not be regarded as a religious leader. Trump need not be a good christian in order to be good for christians. Cyrus the Great managed to be a hero of the Old Testament without being Jewish. Would it have changed anything if Cyrus, while ending the Babylonian exile, also falsely pretended to be Jewish? The whole situation is hard to imagine, but I don’t think it would. I don’t see why it would. Cyrus’ religious views were not important to his value.
Why would a God care in the least who the leaders of the world's nations were at any given time? The preponderance of mediocre, miserable, and monstrous world leaders in our history suggests there has never been any spiritual interventions in our political activities...ever. There are no gods, but if there were, obviously no godly interest in our doings.
"To those people, as a Christian, a sinner, smoker, and heavy beer drinker... I say, 'Go Fuck Yourselves."
"I think God will forgive me for that."
Uh, no. Such behavior and attitudes are a violation and repudiation of Christ's teachings.
There are two women in my life (my hair stylist and our former nanny) who are devoutly uber-religious. everything - good or bad - is defined as "God's will".
When Trump won in 2016 - He was "chosen by God"
When he lost - as I understand their thinking, Satan got in the way.
But he was "chosen" and they, lovely ladies that they are, believe this with every fiber of their being.
Do I understand this type of faith? Not really since I don't process information or emotions the way they do. But it exists in a statistically meaningful segment of human beings - whether they are climate zealots or anti-semites - their faith drives everything.
"Evangelicals, and now Jews, realize Trump doesn't hate them. Which is better than nothing."
He doesn't love them, either. He merely uses them, as he uses everyone and everything to benefit himself.
Shit, Trump is not unique in the world, especially not in the political world, and not the worst of world leaders that have held power even in our own recent lifetimes. The dismaying aspect of Trump's broad support is the picture it paints of our ignorant, uninformed citizenry, their lack of empathy and acceptance of their fellow human beings, in fact, their active contempt and hatred for them. Trump will eventually go away--even if he actually wins and serves another 4 year term--but the revelations of the cult of (and passion for) Trump tells us our future is growing ever dimmer, the light of enlightenment guttering out.
As Sinclair Lewis said succinctly in the title (and content) of one of his books, It Can Happen Here.
Aggie said...
"If there's one single thing that Trump has indisputably, it's a Sinner's credentials."
Don't we all.
He did it because he’s really the first one to listen to their grievances and take them seriously.
ZOMG!!!!!11 That actually worked! Who'd a thunk it!!!!
Does he really care about evangelicals?
Does it matter as long as he treats them fairly?
He is being persecuted. Most of us see it. Most of us, acclimated to the American way, are disgusted by it. The devotion is a response to the persecution from millions of people who know in their core that it’s not just, and are emboldened by Trump’s formidable resistance. Lawfare has met its match and that makes alot of people very happy.
Some food for thought; Did God pick Donald Trump or is Satan welching on the deal he made with Hillary Clinton?
I've have joked with my wife that if she wanted to see her sister-in-law's head explode she should tell her that Trump is under divine protection and that is why all the attempts to "get" him keep imploding.
I’ve not seen any indication that evangelicals actually practice what they preach. They merely posture as highly moral while their actions speak of their moral depravity.
Much like the politicians they support.
"and it was obvious to everyone what the DC republicans actually were at that point."
The Washington Generals never win, but they do get paid. So there's that.
I don't pretend to know what God has in mind. He is unfathomable and His ways are not our ways. And as Gusty Winds mentioned about, God uses sinners. If you know your Bible, He even uses people who don't believe in Him.
But I do know this: when Trump was president and I realized he was actually listening to the "little people" and doing something about the border, etc., I felt safe. That's the word that came to my mind. Safe. It sure didn't last very long.
I cast Trump more like a John the Baptist. You know, roughing it with McDonalds and Diet Coke.
I think that Sebastian summed it up well:
"Evangelicals, and now Jews, realize Trump doesn't hate them. Which is better than nothing. "
Trump may be manipulating people, but that's a problem with all politicians.
Why would a Puerto Rico steam bath attendant pick Donald Trump.
Everything, oddly enough, occurs through Divine Intervention for evangelicals. Everything. Once you realize that, it becomes a commonplace saying, meaninglessly normal. Exactly the same as a communist saying that everything that happens is part of the inevitable collapse of capitalism in favor of the worker's paradise. There is no other paradigm in their heads that they can access to explain anything they experience.
Trumps popularity is a refutation of the existing political status quo, in favor of at least stopping the most vile aspects of current governance, from corruption run amok, to weaponization of government against political opponents, to both politcal parties ignoring laws and rights. Evangelicals see it as DI, Antifa sees it as fascism, BLM sees it as racism, Democrats see it as destroying democracy, Republicans see it as outside the bounds of losing genteely. Everyone gets to ride their very own hobby horse right over the cliff.
The Passion of the Trump.
Thanks, Aggie. absolutely.
Being a religious person, born and raised Catholic and still involved in the Catholic Church, i cannot think of anyone who LESS represents "god" than any other American alive. He would absolutely the last person that i would even identify as coming from god. How and why people flock to him and see him as the personification of "god" is beyond me. He is, and has always been, mean, hateful,vindictive(the worst) for decades and is, in a word, scum
Vicki From Pasadena
They chose to make Trump a martyr, but also to persecute any who might agree with him. And they do not come with ideas, but with sanctimonious declarations usually from the mouth of a harridan. And then they turn the regulatory state loose on them.
It has often been said that nothing furthers a cause more than creating martyrs for it. This is only approximately correct. What strengthens the cause of the persecuted faction is not the martyrdom of its adherents, but the fact that they are being attacked by force, and not by intellectual weapons. Repression by brute force is always a confession of the inability to make use of the better weapons of the intellect— better because they alone give promise of final success.
Mises, Ludwig von. Liberalism (1927)
The Blues Brothers were on a Mission from God, and they were no paragons of virtue. Got the job done, too.
"Do I understand this type of faith? Not really since I don't process information or emotions the way they do. But it exists in a statistically meaningful segment of human beings - whether they are climate zealots or anti-semites - their faith drives everything."
Yep. That is the most frightening reality. (Though, I don't think anti-semitism is a faith; it's just learned bigotry. By the same token, criticism of Jewish people or entities, e.g., Israel, is not by definition or always anti-semitism.)
@Rusty said 11:33: "Aggie said...
"If there's one single thing that Trump has indisputably, it's a Sinner's credentials."
Don't we all.
We do. My point was, his detractors will point and get all hysterical, claiming 'hypocrites' to all those who have religion, while the religious will acknowledge the sinning, embrace the sinner, and then vote for him - as the 'sinned-against'.
Only one of these groups would be called 'clueless'.
Robert Cook said...
"Why would a God care in the least who the leaders of the world's nations were at any given time?"
So God is an American?
"The preponderance of mediocre, miserable, and monstrous world leaders in our history suggests there has never been any spiritual interventions in our political activities...ever."
Or maybe Satan is the busybody interfering in world affairs.
"...[I]f there were [gods], obviously no godly interest in our doings."
Or God gave us Free Will.
JK Brown citing...
"Mises, Ludwig von. Liberalism (1927)"
Minor pet peeve, but that is like citing the former Supreme Court Justice as Connor, Sandra Day O'. The surname is von Mises, not Mises. The proper cite is: von Mises, Ludwig.
And in German, the name would still be filed under "M" as if the von was silent.
Blogger JK Brown said...
They chose to make Trump a martyr, but also to persecute any who might agree with him. And they do not come with ideas, but with sanctimonious declarations usually from the mouth of a harridan. And then they turn the regulatory state loose on them.
And then Biden declares Easter Sunday "Transgender Visibility Day" And no religious symbols on Easter eggs.
Rich said...
"I’ve not seen any indication that evangelicals actually practice what they preach. They merely posture as highly moral while their actions speak of their moral depravity.
Much like the politicians they support."
"I have not seen......"
No. No, you haven't. Otherwise you would not be judging them but questioning your own behavior and your relationeship to your ultimate concern.
The piety of athiest who gloat over the shortcomings of people who believe in god.
Hey Vicki from Pasadena, Christians capitalize God because it's His name. In any event, I don't think anyone personalizes Trump as God, or a god. They just think he is a better choice than Biden.
Aggie said...
If there's one single thing that Trump has indisputably, it's a Sinner's credentials.
4/1/24, 10:46 AM
victoria said...
Thanks, Aggie. absolutely.
Vicki From Pasadena
4/1/24, 1:13 PM
Aggie said...
My point was, his detractors will point and get all hysterical, claiming 'hypocrites' to all those who have religion, while the religious will acknowledge the sinning, embrace the sinner, and then vote for him - as the 'sinned-against'.
Only one of these groups would be called 'clueless'.
4/1/24, 1:48 P
and there the are those who are both clueless and hypocrites.
John Fea said: " He did it because he’s really the first one to listen to their grievances and take them seriously. Does he really care about evangelicals? I don’t know. But he’s built a message to appeal directly to them." And the current version of the Democrat party has built a message to appeal directly to the Hamas supporters and the Trans and the climate cult. Personally, I feel better about policies built to appeal to evangelicals than with the motley crew the Democrats are aiming to please.
"Uh, no. Such behavior and attitudes are a violation and repudiation of Christ's teachings."
This is what is known as a works based theology, which Christianity (at least the protestant variation of it) completely rejects. You do not get into heaven because you are righteous. You get into heaven because Jesus Christ died to pay the penalty for your sins. It is impossible for humans to be righteous without Christ. Don't get me wrong, you should try to follow Christ's teachings, but it is impossible to do so unfailingly because we aren't the Son of God, we are humans and thus sinners.
"Does he really care about evangelicals?"
What a dumb question. The Evangelicals don't care if Trump cares about them or not. What they care about from a politician is results and Trump managed to get Roe vs Wade overturned for them. Abortion was, and is, their main concern. They're going to be Trump supporters for life.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Trump has actually gained ground with Evangelicals since the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade.
I would be interested to see a poll that separated Christians into groups based on frequency of church attendance.
Robert Cook said...
""To those people, as a Christian, a sinner, smoker, and heavy beer drinker... I say, 'Go Fuck Yourselves."
"I think God will forgive me for that."
Uh, no. Such behavior and attitudes are a violation and repudiation of Christ's teachings."
You seriously don't understand Christianity one bit. As a Catholic, I can tell you that the Catholic church has no rules against smoking and drinking. Also, the Catholic church sees all humans as sinners. The Catholic church is all about redemption; not living a sin free life.
What louddogblog said.
I'm not looking to marry Trump or any other politician. My relationship with politicians is strictly transactional. Does he support policy positions that I support and does he actually manage to implement those policies when in office? I think questions about whether someone "really cares" reveal that the questioner is basing their vote on how the politician makes them feel. Paraphrasing something that someone else said; "We don't need to work to get good people elected to office, we need to make it so that bad people will do good things in order to get elected." The idea that Christians shouldn't vote for Trump because he is a bad person is just a ploy to try to shame people so they won't support him.
Now, if you will excuse me, there's more sinnin' to be done.
I have a lot of connections with many who consider themselves evangelical. I do not see a large support for Trump. But some see him as a lesser evil than Biden.
However, consider this: Chuck Colson said the people most easily manipulated by President Nixon were the devoutly religious. Sad.
I think there is a good chunk of "low information voter" persons among both Biden and Trump supporters.
It is almost like in 2016 Donald Trump came across some voter blocs that other candidates had discarded and decided to run with them using the one weird trick called Listening to Their Concerns.
Vickie from Pasadena: Could you show us on the doll where the bad orange man touched you?
I don't think God cares who wins this Presidential election. He may care whether WE care about that.
"I think there is a good chunk of "low information voter" persons among both Biden and Trump supporters."
Probably. Which group do you think chose more wisely, using that "low information"?
Ron Winkleheimer said...
"We don't need to work to get good people elected to office, we need to make it so that bad people will do good things in order to get elected."
While talking about economics and not politics, Adam Smith said...
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."
Catholics and Orthodox don't condemn smoking or drinking, and probably not recreational drug use. They do recognize alcoholism and addiction as problems that can be overcome with faith in God.
There are multiple Protestant denominations that consider their use a sin. And of course so do the Mormons.
God created us. In his image. And it follows from that he doesn't want us to abuse our (his) bodies.I don't abstain from drinking for the available evidence is that moderate alcohol use is better than abstention. Besides which Jesus did turn water into wine...
Trump neither smokes nor drinks or uses drugs. Doesn't have to lie and say he didn't inhale. His major sin seems to be he can't keep it in his pants. Has a few ex-wives, a Catholic sin for sure. On the plus side, despite the testimony of a serial liar in NYC, he confines his escapades to willing partners. And his exes appear to have forgiven him, so there's no Earthly reason I shouldn't.
Is Trump an imperfect vessel? Absolutely yes. Was he sent by God? Well, he was made by God as was all of us, but that's as far as I'll go with that. Is he the perfect FU message to the elites? Don't know, but he's the best we've got.
His early and enthusiastic supporters that I knew were all, each and every one of them, mostly apolitical most of the time. He sparked them early on. To this day I've no idea what they saw in him. I honestly expected that the DemoncRATs would make deals with the author of The Art of the Deal. Instead they made him an implacable enemy. He was plagued with political naivety his first term. I'm certain he's been cured.
I don't know Marie Zere, real-estate broker from Long Island who attended CPAC, but I am fairly certain that her statement was not meant to say that she considers Trump the Messiah, or wants to turn the Republican Party into a church. I've heard lots of Republicans say similar things, to make the point that TRump is an odd but effective vehicle for advancing the Conservative cause and defeating the Democrats, and he seems to survive a whole lot of stuff that would crush most other politicians. Seriously not literally. The Times is such a disingenuous rag.
And related to this very discussion I bring you this from threadreaderapp:
Donald Trump, the Number Seven & the Prophecy of the Red Heifer
Threadreaderapp.com/thread/1774841839339643320.html
I've seen enough craziness on threadreaderapp to recognize that this is authentic everyday craziness and not an elaborate April Fool's Day post.
As Lincoln once said about U S Grant. Unconditional Surrender Grant fights. That’s all Trump does.
And in a desperate fight Americans turn to their faith in God. It surprises God every time. And then the opposition screams Unfair. And God laughs. A good short read on the subject is Nehimiah. He was a sociable bar tender for a foreign tyrant. But he would fight. As a reward for that fight God gave him his own Bible book that reads like a Medal of Honor citation. Wonder what Trump gets.
"You seriously don't understand Christianity one bit."
I understand it enough to know he would not approve of harboring hatred and casting words of contempt toward others.
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[c] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[d] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[e] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.[f]"
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[q] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
"Christians capitalize God because it's His name."
No, that is not his name; "god" is the nature of his being, (speaking theoretically, of course). "God" has several names, the most common being variants of "Jehovah."
"And in a desperate fight Americans turn to their faith in God."
All believing people in all nations "turn to their faith in (the) god" (of their choice) in times of war. Americans are no more unique in that fundamental human trait than in any other fundamental behaviors of people around the world.
The earliest written form of the Germanic word God comes from the 6th-century Christian Codex Argenteus. The English word itself is derived from the Proto-Germanic *ǥuđan. The reconstructed Proto-Indo-European form *ǵhu-tó-m was likely based on the root *ǵhau(ə)-, which meant either "to call" or "to invoke".[9] The Germanic words for God were originally neuter, but during the process of the Christianization of the Germanic peoples from their indigenous Germanic paganism, the words became a masculine syntactic form.[10] In the English language, capitalization is used when the word is used as a proper noun, as well as for other names by which a god is known.[11] Consequently, the capitalized form of god is not used for multiple gods or when used to refer to the generic idea of a deity.[12][13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God
Define proper noun:
proper noun
noun
A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places.
A noun denoting a particular person, place, organization, ship, animal, event, or other individual entity.
A noun that denotes a particular thing; usually capitalized.
"In the Old Testament, when "God" is used, it is usually a rendering of the general Hebrew word for God, "Elohim." When "LORD GOD" or "Lord GOD" occurs, it is usually a rendering of a dual name for God "Adonai YHWH." The Hebrew term "YHWH Sabaoth" is usually rendered "Lord of Hosts." The Hebrew term "YHWH Shaddai" is usually rendered "LORD Almighty." The Old Testament uses many different names and titles to refer to God, to emphasize certain aspects of His person and attributes. This can result in confusion in translation, but in the original Hebrew, it was done entirely in an effort to glorify and magnify God’s name.
The usage of "Lord" and "God" in the New Testament is much less complicated. Almost universally, "God" is a translation of "theos," the general Greek word for deity. Also almost universally, "Lord" is a translation of "kurios," the general Greek word for a master. The key point in all of this is that whether we use His actual Hebrew name, or refer to Him as God, or Lord, or Lord God, we are to always show reverence to Him and His name."
So yes, God is considered a name.
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