The since-rescinded memo, sent from the VA Office of the Assistant Under Secretary of Health for Operations, stated that photo should be removed on the grounds that it depicted a non-consensual kiss:
"This memorandum requests the removal of the 'V-J Day in Times Square' photograph from all Veterans Health Administration facilities in alignment with the Department of Veterans Affairs' commitment to maintaining a safe, respectful, and trauma-informed environment. This action is promoted by the recognition that the photograph, which depicts a non-consensual act, is inconsistent with the VA's no-tolerance policy towards sexual harassment and assault. [...]
Recent discussions have highlighted concerns about the non-consensual nature of the kiss, prompting debates on consent and the appropriateness of celebrating such images in today's environment, especially within institutions, such as VHA facilities, which are committed to upholding standards of creating a safe and respectful environment. [...]
To foster a more trauma-informed environment that promotes the psychologic safety of our employees and the Veterans we serve, photographs depicting the "V-J Day in Times Square" should be removed from all VHA facilities.
Why rescind it?! We're told "VA officials confirmed that the memo, which requested such a policy, was a real document, but that its distribution was made in error." So they rescinded a request? Why not just deny the request? It sounds like the memo drew such criticism that they regretted sending it, and now, we're supposed to believe they never intended to distribute it. Obviously, the Assistant Under Secretary of Health for Operations (or someone who writes for her) intended to compose a written request to remove the photo from all VA facilities.
Anyway, you can read the full text of the memo and read some more skeptical reporting at the NY Post: "Woke VA officials ban iconic WWII kiss photo over ‘values’ — and are forced to reverse it when boss finds out via tweet." There's also some background on the popular old photograph:
The celebrated snap was taken by famed “Life’’ magazine photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt on Aug. 14, 1945, the day the Japanese announced they were surrendering.
It garnered controversy in recent years, particularly with the #MeToo movement, because the woman in the photograph, a dental assistant named Greta Zimmer Friedman, had never met the sailor, George Mendonsa, before she suddenly found herself lip-locked with him at the Crossroads of the World....
Ah! There's my word. I've been garnering "garners" for a long time, but that photograph — one hell of a garnerer — has been garnering longer than I've been in this world. It's garnering controversy these days, but it's been garnering love since 1945, and I think that in the long course of time, the Garner of Controversy will never approach the fullness of the Garner of Love.
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65 comments:
"Why not just deny the request?"
They don't want to deny the request, they want to fulfill the request. They don't want to be mocked for it. So they "withdraw" it. The request will be back, and it will be enshrined.
It's a photo of America's great victory. The left cannot abide.
When you get a request from higher up, is it really a request?
vs a non-consensual sniff?
The militant San Fran arm of the party wanted it so they got it and it opened another battle front in an election year. So sorry…but sorry not sorry…or something…let’s learn about Joe’s favorite ice cream flavor for after banging Jill!
Saw a photo of the Karen who wrote the memo on X yesterday. Exactly what you'd expect her to look like. Kinda like the way Vicky Nuland looks exactly like a war hungry neocon fascist. Sometimes the cover tells the book's story exactly right.
Snopes is a left-leaning "fact checker." Everything they generate is meant to support the left or control damage to the left.
https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/fact-check-bias-chart
"the memo is fake"
"Ok the memo is real"
"but it was only a request"
"it was sent in error!"
"can you please forget about this now?"
Lol. LMAO even.
"… sent in error." ?? Error my a--!
Q: Will the him/her/she/it who decided to communicate such a fatuous policy be held accountable?
A: Yeah, right.
the Error was: People found OUT!
democracy dies in darkness.. Please follow this rule
There was a lot of non-consensual death too.
A woke middle-management underling sent out a policy memo - not a request - to remove the photo, on no uncertain terms, in all VA facilities. This was sent out to the world at 07:30 in the morning, and by 09:00 her Boss sent out an over-riding memo saying clearly to do no such thing. He has gone a step further to confirm, to the world, that the photo will remain on the wall in VA facilities.
So, no.
Will Bull Halsey be erased?
Folks seem horrified at the Israeli reaction to 10/7.
In Dec 41:
"Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell."
William Frederick Halsey, Jr.
Apparently there are some people who are not very busy tending to veterans’ needs at the VA. Why keep paying them?
"It sounds like the memo drew such criticism that they regretted sending it"
Well, bless your heart, Althouse, for giving them even this much benefit of the doubt.
The memorandum was the change in policy, and the blowback forced them to retreat......for the moment. But when the furor has died down, the photo will be disappeared.
I just went back and looked at the photo...... There's two! I never knew.. .. they may have never met before the kiss but in one she seems to be enjoying the experience quiet a bit more than in the other. Just saying.
In the 2005 interview, Zimmer said, "It was just somebody really celebrating. But it wasn't a romantic event. It was just an event of 'thank God the war is over' kind of thing."
"It wasn't that much of a kiss, it was more of a jubilant act that he didn't have to go back," she said. "And the reason he grabbed someone dressed like a nurse was that he just felt very grateful to nurses who took care of the wounded."
Three months earlier, Mendonsa had been at the helm of the USS The Sullivans during the Battle of Okinawa and dragged survivors and the dead from the water. Nurses helped save many lives.
In an interview for the same project, Mendonsa said he’d grabbed Zimmer because he thought she was a war nurse. “It was all done in good clean honest fun,” he said.
These people are bigger prudes than the Victorians who put covers over their table legs. Everything is about SEX.
As rhhardin points out- the entire war had people who were kill non-consensually, and many by men who were also coerced into doing it- are we eliminating those photos, too?
Did the woman object? She certainly does not appear to be objecting. Doesn't that make it consensual even if she was not asked ahead of time? Since we know who the woman is, has she ever been asked if she objected?
Is this an earlier, staider, version of "When you are a celebrity, they let you..."?
The sailor is, sort of, a celebrity. One of our heroic "boys" (men actually. A a few women) who fought the Germans and Japanese. Did she "let" him kiss her? If so, it is not non-consensual on either part.
This is just bullshit.
And who writes a memo, requesting or suggesting something that is not intended for distribution?
This is just bullshit too.
John Henry
I think we should deploy the "Way Back" machine and have him kiss some other girls... Oh wait. His fiance who was accompanying him said in fact kids did kiss numerous other women that momentous day in Times Square. "Good on him" as the Aussies say. Put the WB machine in storage.
Addendum: Is there really an employee at the VA that has so little to do that they have the time to censor joyous pictures from American history?
I don't see how impulsive, public kissing at victory celebrations are much of a problem since we don't win wars anymore.
The VA gets a lot of bad press and anecdotes are not evidence but:
I've had a lot of dealings with the VA since I left the navy in 74. They paid much of my undergrad and all of my graduate tuition and more in the 70s. They have guaranteed 2 mortgages and save me a percent or so. They have provided ALL my medical care for the past 20 or so years.
They pissed me off back in the day with the education benefit because it took what I thought was a long time, a month or two, to start receiving the checks. But once in the system, there was no problem.
I have nothing but the highest praise for the medical care. Just super-duper, tip-top.
And the mortgage was handled by the bank so other than filling out a form or two, pretty painless.
Medical care apparently varies from hospital to hospital but I have been spoiled rotten by the San Juan VA hospital, including a 10 day hospitalization and 3 stents at a private cardiac center arranged and paid for by VA.Ditto the nearby satellite clinic where I see my primary care physician.
Other people's milage may vary. And seems to if I can believe the media. Key word "if"
John Henry
She was drafted? That's so genderist.
Alternate headline:
Educated Voter Shoots Biden In Foot.
vs a non-consensual sniff?
And a father showering with his mature daughter. Social progress?
Make America Grope Again
Let's just retroactively cancel the Second World War.
After all, some GI somewhere must have raped someone.
I remember watching 60 Minutes (when it was still worth watching) a long time ago on a VJ-Day anniversary. The segment focused on this photo.
They interviewed five or six elderly women who were WWII nurses and present at the VJ Day celebration. ALL of the women claimed to be the woman being kissed in the photo. They ALL WANTED TO BE the woman in the famous iconic photo. None were concerned with the kiss being consensual or not.
The woke woman from the VA who sent out the stupid memo is exactly what you'd expect. She looks like a fat man-hater that hasn't been kissed since high school.
I remember watching 60 Minutes (when it was still worth watching) a long time ago on a VJ-Day anniversary. The segment focused on this photo.
They interviewed five or six elderly women who were WWII nurses and present at the VJ Day celebration. ALL of the women claimed to be the woman being kissed in the photo. They ALL WANTED TO BE the woman in the famous iconic photo. None were concerned with the kiss being consensual or not.
The woke woman from the VA who sent out the stupid memo is exactly what you'd expect. She looks like a fat man-hater that hasn't been kissed since high school.
Breezy said...
"Apparently there are some people who are not very busy tending to veterans’ needs at the VA. Why keep paying them?"
^^^^
This.
OK. At the next Trump rally he should engage in a bit of serious mocking of this. Mention the controversy. Say that while he has been Commander in Chief he has not been, as this man was, in combat and lived to tell the tale. Say that he does not want to see a world where you can't celebrate the end of five years of inhumane slaughter of men, women and children (all non consenting other than kamikaze pilots). Then pull Melania up tight and lay on a big smooch in exactly the pose of the picture.
Do it.
Tacitus
>Ah! There's my word. I've been garnering "garners" for a long time, but that photograph — one hell of a garnerer — has been garnering longer than I've been in this world. It's garnering controversy these days, but it's been garnering love since 1945,<
There ya go! And congrats on getting and using the unique function of the word.
If the photo had been taken in modern-day San Fransisco, it would have been one man getting his cock sucked by another on Castro Street, and it would win a Pulitzer Prize.
Perspective...
What makes them assume that a woman can't consensually kiss an unknown man?
The memo wasn't sent in error, someone truly thought that sending that photo to the memory hole was a splendid idea. Now the VA has another mess on their hands that they have to explain away, and more normal people have further reinforcement to the idea that Woke/DEI needs itself a trip to the memory hole.
Fake but accurate.
How do know it was non-consensual?
There seems to be an implied idea that women weren't out there wanting to celebrate by kissing some random sailors and soldiers. If I were alive then, I think I'd have wanted to kiss every military man I saw as if he had personally won the war.
I think any nurse during the war would have met her share of handsy men and become fairly adept at fending them off, if she wanted to.
If our service people are too simpleminded to understand the difference between celebrating V-J Day and molesting someone on a date, then we have a big problem that banning a photo won't fix.
Dammit. we almost got there.
We eliminated the historic stain of slavery by pulling down the Robert E. Lee statues.
The racism against black women by pulling Aunt Jemima from our syrup bottles.
The plight of native Americans with the Land O' Lakes butter label change.
And we were soooooo close on eliminating sexual harassment with killing this photo.
But the march toward purity shall NOT be stopped! (Comrade.)
Everything would have been fine if the picture had shown a woman kissing another woman. Or even better if a trans had done the kissing! Would people in 1945 have understood what a trans was?
How about removing the dumbass official that even thought this would be a good idea. The fact this even entered her head is troubling.
"Now the VA has another mess on their hands that they have to explain away..."
This is what happens when you hire people to meet diversity goals- you end up with workers who have no skills applicable to handling veterans affairs. That *is* the reason the VA exists, right?
The undersecretary who sent the memo had previously led a VA facility in St. Louis where 1800 veterans were exposed to HIV due to poor infection control practices. And then she got a promotion...
The statue based on the photo is apparently still up in Sarasota; it was moved just a few feet for road construction. Supposedly there was going to be a more elaborate explanatory plaque or something, but I don't know what happened to that. The permanent installation of the statue was made possible by a man who was commemorating his late wife, who apparently loved the statue.
Depending on who think is the man and the woman, it is possible the woman reached out to the man (a stranger) before the kiss. One guy had his fiancee with him, so she saw the whole thing, another guy was on his way to visit his girlfriend.
Would American women in NYC that day be understanding of a man in uniform wanting to plant that kiss? Would many women and men want to be looked at the way that man no doubt looked at that woman?
Supposedly the only time my grandfather ever got drunk was Armistice Day, 1918.
Drill Sgt,
I would think Halsey would be more offensive. For example, this billboard in Guam in 45 or so
https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/61/73/1293818853-___.jpg
It says:
"Admiral Halsey says
'Kill Japs, kill more Japs
KILL MORE JAPS'
You will help kill the yellow bastards if you do your job well"
I think the last line was local, not quoting Halsey directly. The "kill Japs, kill Japs, Kill more Japs" is a definite and documented Halsey quote.
Yes, we were going to ban it, but we got caught. So, please pay no attention that man behind the curtain.
"6. Your cooperation in this matter is vital. Please ensure these photographs are promptly removed and facilities explore suitable replacements that honor our history and veterans in a manner consistent with out values."
That's not a "request."
Poor Howie- still longing for some alpha-male to take him and sweep him off his feet.
If the VA wants to ban images for lack of consent; then they should suggest the White House ban photographers whenever Biden is around young girls. Of course, doing so just aids in hiding his behavior.
Every time this incompetent administration gets caught "screwing the pooch" they tell you it was an"ERROR".
The Garner of Love. Wasn't that a Huey Lewis song?
In all the years since, did no one interview Greta Zimmer Friedman and ask her how she felt about the kiss? Why assume it was unwanted or unpleasant?
"Recent discussions have highlighted concerns about the non-consensual nature of the kiss."
Whenever I read weaselly Newspeak about "discussions" or "controversy" I immediately long for a transcript of that discussion, assuming the discussion was nothing but a concocted lie, to assess the arguments made. That two or more unknowns make undocumented points that may or may not relate the the question doesn't settle any matter. Not in a democracy. No one's "feelings" are superior to mine -- not in a democracy -- and therefore carry no greater weight or authority. Make your case, or STFU. Someone intending mischief can always find two or more idiots who'll agree to anything, but the opinions of idiots shouldn't rule in a democracy, not if the democracy hopes to endure beyond next Tuesday. (Thankfully, if Biden poll numbers are true indicators, idiots comprise significantly fewer than half the American voter pool.) So stand by your words or be ignored. That's democracy
In Portsmouth, England, just inside the visitors' enclosure for Nelson's flagship, H.M.S. Victory, there's a 10x lifesize sculpture of the "Victory Kiss". As one can see it's a popular exhibit put there to remind visitors to that storied ship from the Age of Fighting Sail of the joy and relief of the end of mankind's greatest calamity in the overwhelming vindication of righteousness. Everybody loves it and nobody is stupid enough to engage in any controversy.
Joe Smith said...
“If the photo had been taken in modern-day San Fransisco, it would have been one man getting his cock sucked by another on Castro Street, and it would win a Pulitzer Prize.”
An 11 year old twerking would be in the picture, too.
@Tacitus: At the next Trump rally he should engage in a bit of serious mocking of this. Mention the controversy. Say that while he has been Commander in Chief he has not been, as this man was, in combat and lived to tell the tale. Say that he does not want to see a world where you can't celebrate the end of five years of inhumane slaughter of men, women and children (all non consenting other than kamikaze pilots). Then pull Melania up tight and lay on a big smooch in exactly the pose of the picture.
I like your style.
I'd harp on how when Democrats aren't installing lazy unionized goldbrickers in government sinecures, they put ideologues in power who think doing stuff like this is the only reason We the People employed them.
He should say that when he's elected President, he will seek out and find whoever did this, no matter how obscure and lowly, and fire their ass on the spot for incompetence and on-the-job politicking, and dare them to challenge it through the civil-service grievance procedures, with a sincere promise to fight them to the Supreme Court.
What are the government worker scum going to do about it if he antagonizes them? Give 95% of their donations to the Democrats? Work for 4 years to undermine the entire Trump agenda? Commit perjury and illegal domestic espionage for the partisan political gain of the Democratic Party? You don't say!
I say it's time to take a page from Saul Alinsky's book, and inflict real and lasting harm on the low ranking left-wing foot soldiers in government. People hurt sooner than institutions. Put them all in abject fear that Rubicon Don is going to destroy them individually and by name, and maybe get all of their unconstitutional job protection destroyed too, if they behave like Democratic Party political organizers instead of the people's hired help when they are drawing a paycheck from our taxes.
I don't approve of the British sculpture because the seams on the back of the stockings are a critical element, and to leave them off is criminal.
It was a pride parade... less the lions. A world war survived, boys kissing girls in a gay gesture to a viable future. Victory. No casting couches, no friends with "benefits", no boys or fathers in girls' showers, no neighbors in sodomy with celebrity endorsement, no national insurrections and collateral damage, no [catastrophic] [anthropogenic] immigration reform.
Apparently, victory is quite a turn-on. Later generations never knew.
Relax, women back then weren't shrinking flowers. In that time frame (1944), my aunt (15) picked and married her husband (18) and sent him off to the Pacific to island hop to Japan. She was no shrinking flower, ever. And she wasn't a sophisticated big city working woman though she had followed her husband through training all the way to California. A kiss in celebration would not have phased them.
Back in the early 1990s, I worked in a federal office. For the 50th anniversaries, they sent out a collage of photos of people in the war. I had been tasked with helping the new EEO manager get us all trained up. I pointed out, amusingly, that the poster had a picture of women in towels leaning out of the shower tent, but none of men provocatively dressed. Heaven forfend.
"I say it's time to take a page from Saul Alinsky's book, and inflict real and lasting harm on the low ranking left-wing foot soldiers in government."
It would be a good demonstration of who has (and who hasn't) got their back. High-ranking left-wingers will mostly be in the second group.
In every government function a wormy lizard creature writhes to a position of influence and waits for the day where its moral authority can be exposed to the world. When implemented this results in a retreat under fire.
When the salient is stabilized, higher management tries to reinstate 60 to 70 pct of the lizard lust, just as an FU to citizens, how dare they! They won’t watch in the dark! We can wait this out! All studied elements of the science of bureaucracy.
Babylon Bee reports that Georgetown U announces new degree major, a BS in Bureaucratic Science.
Apparently, victory is quite a turn-on. Later generations never knew.
Also, reportedly, being under fire and at risk of death creates a surge of interest in, reproducing, leading to many encounters that must be explained with respect to the 9 month clock. The unfortunate British soldiers on Malta and such had this problem with their wives left home in the blitz.
Liars. They tried to cancel "Baby, It's Cold Outside too." Progressives are the new Puritans.
Rocco said...
Joe Smith said...
“If the photo had been taken in modern-day San Fransisco, it would have been one man getting his cock sucked by another on Castro Street, and it would win a Pulitzer Prize.”
An 11 year old twerking would be in the picture, too.
3/6/24, 4:39 PM
A "transgender" 11 year old twerking....
In some places, when you do something that embarrasses your boss, you get fired. Why do I think that didn't happen here?
The real scandal here is that Snopes rated this claim as "FALSE" when was obviously true. The VA did distribute that memo, so the claim is still true even though the VA rescinded the memo after the public criticism.
Snopes really needs to purge themselves of partisan hacks who are working hard to prop up the Democrats....but they won't.
That's why Snopes is a joke as an "objective fact checker."
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